The title of the thread should have been more like "Capitalizing on bugged Mechanics". In that case you also failed to mention another advantage of Thauma spec, and that's the ability to have Eye of the Storm up 100%. I just ran a test just to see if they fixed it or not, and apparently they didn't. I clocked 3:38min of 100% crit and 100% upkeep of EoS.
Yes there is alot of quirks with chilling cloud. Like I said somewhere in my posts, my intention here was to provide a base guide (theres alot of useful tips in here i dont see in other guides, that have nothing to do with bugged mechanics), and help bring everyone onto an equal playing field.
Apparently, based on a short test, you don't even need the Frozen Power Transfer feat to do the above. It's seriously hilarious; doubt it'll last.
Hmm ill have to do more tests, I always assumed it was tied to Frozen Power transfer due to the tooltip, however it may just be the combination of chilling cloud & chilling presence, the same way chilling cloud & eye of the storm work. I am still thinking not having Frozen Power transfer would be a mistake due to the constant usage of chilling cloud.
Yes there is alot of quirks with chilling cloud. Like I said somewhere in my posts, my intention here was to provide a base guide (theres alot of useful tips in here i dont see in other guides, that have nothing to do with bugged mechanics), and help bring everyone onto an equal playing field.
I am sorry if it sounded like I was criticizing. Yes, there is some good info in the OP.
Hmm ill have to do more tests, I always assumed it was tied to Frozen Power transfer due to the tooltip, however it may just be the combination of chilling cloud & chilling presence, the same way chilling cloud & eye of the storm work. I am still thinking not having Frozen Power transfer would be a mistake due to the constant usage of chilling cloud.
The EoS bug also has to do with one of the feats, either Transfer or Elem Empower, because non-Thauma spec CW cant replicate the effect.
Actually there is a pretty big debate about this. Even though it stacks, when you combine other debuffs your group should have such as wicked, etc, the mitigation decrease is most likely maxed and really not benefiting the group as much as the shadow set.
There is no debate, spells that decrease mitigation do not "max". They continue to put the afflicted enemies into neg resistance. HV is by far the best CW set for increasing total group dps. Shadow weaver will probalby put you at top dps on overall damage, but the damage you are doing to monsters that are going to be bumped with shield is pretty irrelevant anyways.
There is no debate, spells that decrease mitigation do not "max". They continue to put the afflicted enemies into neg resistance. HV is by far the best CW set for increasing total group dps. Shadow weaver will probalby put you at top dps on overall damage, but the damage you are doing to monsters that are going to be bumped with shield is pretty irrelevant anyways.
Shadowwaver 4 set applies to the entire group, just as HV does, and the SW proc applies with a lot more abilities then the HV 4 set. Again, my spec is a combo of top AOE damage, and top single target damage, mob tossing damage aside. And once again, my logs/timed runs to this point show HV + SW, is more valuable in our groups then HV + HV. I just dont see the HV on all wizards as being the best thing in the moment. If the mitigation argument is completely true, then I dont know how to explain my results. Not sure if it could be something else like the fact my TR's have perfect vorps so the extra crit severity buff of SW is having a bigger effect then the HV uptime, or what the case might be. I will have to do more testing on it.
I guess I agree to disagree with some people on the all CW's should be HV.
jzlim5888Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 17Arc User
edited July 2013
hey doaxira,
im confused, why do u NOT favor Fight On (feat) over anything else like stated in ur post : Blighting Power and Blizzard Wrath.
wanna know your opinion on these.
Also,
in Thaumaturge tree,
if I don't wanna go for Frozen Power Transfer and Destructive Wizard, what do u reckon other two feats than I should invest in,
im looking at Snap freeze and?? Between Frozen Power and Destructive Wizard, I prefer Destructive more.
wanna know your opinion thx.
Snap Freeze useless in frost build. Just read a tooltip carefully.
0
jzlim5888Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 17Arc User
edited July 2013
im using chill strike and COI. I usually started off with Chill Strike to get chill effect then follow by COI. so this feat here will boost my Chill Strike by 20% isn't it?
im confused, why do u NOT favor Fight On (feat) over anything else like stated in ur post : Blighting Power and Blizzard Wrath.
wanna know your opinion on these.
Also,
in Thaumaturge tree,
if I don't wanna go for Frozen Power Transfer and Destructive Wizard, what do u reckon other two feats than I should invest in,
im looking at Snap freeze and?? Between Frozen Power and Destructive Wizard, I prefer Destructive more.
wanna know your opinion thx.
Fight on is decent and i do have the 3/5 in it. But theres nothing else I would want to take from for the other 2 points, everything else is scaling my overall damage. And once you have the close to 0 cooldown on shield going, Fight on becomes irrelevant quickly.
Blighting power is a must have imo (directly effects everything related to single target build, COI and chill strike.)
If by Blizzard Wrath you mean Wizard Wrath, against must have, direct effect to all aoe powers.
Frozen Power Transfer: If you do not invest in this feat, the single target damage I outline will not be possible.
Destructive Wizardry: Purely focused on your personal DPS/Damage increase, if you do not invest here, in my opinion you should be going all the way to end of THAUM for assailing force, I would also recommend Tempest Magic.
Like I state in my guide, overall THAUM is the better "full" spec if your are not hybrid IMO. Although it may not maximize your personal damage, it brings soooo much more to the group.
can someone explain me in detail how to get that dmg stack from from chilling cloud?
i slotted Chlling Presence\Eye of the Storm in Class Features, i got Power Transfer Feat,
then i keep stacking Chilling Clouds on draco with nothing but my encounters on rotation, rof, chill strike, ioc and icy shards... i dont see a dmg increase at all.... is the dmg supposed to increase on each consecutive encounter i hit with?
or is it max dmg after 6 chill stacks?
i almost had draco to myself the whole fight, and i did some 2.5m dmg on him, saw nothing out of the ordinary and i dont see the dmg increase.
I been testing bugs revolving around Chilling Cloud since PTS first opened. What's causing the bug with Chilling Presence is the Chilling Cloud change right before game went live, since patch NW.3.20130529d.6, in which the first two attacks refresh Chill Stacks. It only requires Chilling Presence and Chilling Cloud to bug Chilling Presence. This is due to the change in how the first two attacks with Chilling Cloud work, they are apparently refreshing the hidden buff that Chilling Presence is granting, which is also on same timer of chill stacks which is 3 seconds. As long as you use either the first or second attack of Chilling Cloud within every 3 seconds you will keep the damage bonus up. Although you need to keep building chill stacks obviously to increase the damage further.
As far as for Eye of the Storm bug, this requires both Chilling Cloud and Frozen Power Transfer, seems to be directly linked to Frozen Power Transfer however. Whenever this is refreshed it likes to refresh other buffs that are up. When I say other buffs, it's not limited to just Eye of the Storm. I've tested Destructive Wizardry bugging out as well with same mechanic and even the Holy Avenger weapon enchantment proc bugging out from Frozen Power Transfer. Even seen prestidigitation attempts to bug out and stack up to 20+ times, although I didn't notice a stat change(to see this you must be with another CW with it). I would assume almost any proced buff on yourself can be refreshed if it lasts long enough via Frozen Power Transfer.
(I been running and testing a build which has these bugs in it since the patch, not that I wanted/tried to build around bugs, it just happened. I have submitted feedback and bug reports before and they haven't commented/fixed any involving these issues "yet".)
As of 7/18/2013 patch, it appears the following stealth patches have occurred:
-Storm Pillar now can crit on initial attack
-Nightmare Wizardry no longer procs on ourselves
reserved for future use
nightmare wizardry no longer procs on ourselves ? meaning only allies or ???
nightmare wizardry no longer procs on ourselves ? meaning only allies or ???
No, when nightmare wizardry procs it is a "debuff". It is meant to go on mobs/enemies. There was a bug for the longest time where it would proc onto yourself, therefore debuffing yourself. That piece of it is what finally has been fixed.
doaxira, i cant get this working... if it would work, shouldnt it incrase my dmg for every cholling cloud rotation? like every thrid chilling strike?
about how long of just auto attacking chilling cloud on the dummy would it take for a 100k+ ice knife? i dont see the dmg increase...
Its a steady slow gain. Make sure you have chilling presence slotted as your class feature, then yes, just simple auto attacks with chilling cloud into the dummy, and you should see the increase. It should be very noticeable after a minutes time.
You'll notice it real quick in places where you are single targeting a boss, like FH. Once you start getting every ice chunk being tossed at you and he keeps edging nearer to you, you've done well. I like to stand mid range away, just outside his PBAE, and inside the ice axe range, because thats stupid easy to avoid.
Interesting thread. I think it would help if you started off by saying in big bold type:
"The recommendations in this guide assume you will be running T2/CN with at least one and preferably two other CWs speced for group focus. This build leverages the other CWs to achieve the top Paingiver slot and depends upon game mechanics (such as infinite damage scaling) that were obviously not intended and will probably be fixed soon."
Interesting thread. I think it would help if you started off by saying in big bold type:
"The recommendations in this guide assume you will be running T2/CN with at least one and preferably two other CWs speced for group focus. This build leverages the other CWs to achieve the top Paingiver slot and depends upon game mechanics (such as infinite damage scaling) that were obviously not intended and will probably be fixed soon."
Actually if you read more closely, you will see I do not use the single target mechanic in our regular group runs, its a waste of time, it requires minutes to start taking effect and if your running with 2 great TR's, its irrelevant. Our normal group comp is 2 CW's, and I have solo'd it with decent DC's many times. However yes, if there are 2 CW's, the entire group will benefit from having 2 different style CW's that I outline (IMO, however you see others here even arguing that).
Understand HV 4 set is a group effect, SW 4 set is a group effect, the THAUM effects are group effects. There is nothing in here that allows a CW to gain an advantage over other players damage wise except the single target chill damage. Everyone in the group is on an equal playing field with everything else outlined in here, and using this guide with similar gear, you will top ever single CN run in damage with or without the single target chill damage.
Been getting some questions in game/mail etc. I am constantly adjusting learning new things as well. Looks like the chilling cloud bugs are corrected on Test server which if course they should have been. If anyone is interested in seeing my non-bugged damage or sub 30 minute CN runs, we tend to be doing a lot of them lately and anyone is welcome to visit me and check out my stream.
Shadowwaver 4 set applies to the entire group, just as HV does, and the SW proc applies with a lot more abilities then the HV 4 set. Again, my spec is a combo of top AOE damage, and top single target damage, mob tossing damage aside. And once again, my logs/timed runs to this point show HV + SW, is more valuable in our groups then HV + HV. I just dont see the HV on all wizards as being the best thing in the moment. If the mitigation argument is completely true, then I dont know how to explain my results. Not sure if it could be something else like the fact my TR's have perfect vorps so the extra crit severity buff of SW is having a bigger effect then the HV uptime, or what the case might be. I will have to do more testing on it.
I guess I agree to disagree with some people on the all CW's should be HV.
HV for 2 wizards stack (so you get 6 stacks). also they refresh from each others abilities. so having 2 is actually better than 1 (single targetting especially)
also i think this bug has something to do with not having snap freeze.
I adjusted the build slightly back to renegade, and removed the portion on single target damage, will update again shortly. Again most of my original build was not built around the bugged feat, and mostly still applies.
If you don't mind me asking what is your INT/CHA/WIS at 60. I rolled a human and at level 38 I have 23 INT 15 CHA 15 WIS. Don't know if that is good for the build or maybe I should re-reoll. Thanks in advance.
If you don't mind me asking what is your INT/CHA/WIS at 60. I rolled a human and at level 38 I have 23 INT 15 CHA 15 WIS. Don't know if that is good for the build or maybe I should re-reoll. Thanks in advance.
For my build you would want to assign all your points into INT/CHA. All about damage/crit.
Comments
Yes there is alot of quirks with chilling cloud. Like I said somewhere in my posts, my intention here was to provide a base guide (theres alot of useful tips in here i dont see in other guides, that have nothing to do with bugged mechanics), and help bring everyone onto an equal playing field.
Hmm ill have to do more tests, I always assumed it was tied to Frozen Power transfer due to the tooltip, however it may just be the combination of chilling cloud & chilling presence, the same way chilling cloud & eye of the storm work. I am still thinking not having Frozen Power transfer would be a mistake due to the constant usage of chilling cloud.
I am sorry if it sounded like I was criticizing. Yes, there is some good info in the OP.
The EoS bug also has to do with one of the feats, either Transfer or Elem Empower, because non-Thauma spec CW cant replicate the effect.
Yeah its got to be Transfer then, because i dont have elem power in my spec and i get the EOS behavior all the time when I am doing single target.
There is no debate, spells that decrease mitigation do not "max". They continue to put the afflicted enemies into neg resistance. HV is by far the best CW set for increasing total group dps. Shadow weaver will probalby put you at top dps on overall damage, but the damage you are doing to monsters that are going to be bumped with shield is pretty irrelevant anyways.
also op, what rings and neck r u using? i guess pyro and blessings-
Shadowwaver 4 set applies to the entire group, just as HV does, and the SW proc applies with a lot more abilities then the HV 4 set. Again, my spec is a combo of top AOE damage, and top single target damage, mob tossing damage aside. And once again, my logs/timed runs to this point show HV + SW, is more valuable in our groups then HV + HV. I just dont see the HV on all wizards as being the best thing in the moment. If the mitigation argument is completely true, then I dont know how to explain my results. Not sure if it could be something else like the fact my TR's have perfect vorps so the extra crit severity buff of SW is having a bigger effect then the HV uptime, or what the case might be. I will have to do more testing on it.
I guess I agree to disagree with some people on the all CW's should be HV.
im confused, why do u NOT favor Fight On (feat) over anything else like stated in ur post : Blighting Power and Blizzard Wrath.
wanna know your opinion on these.
Also,
in Thaumaturge tree,
if I don't wanna go for Frozen Power Transfer and Destructive Wizard, what do u reckon other two feats than I should invest in,
im looking at Snap freeze and?? Between Frozen Power and Destructive Wizard, I prefer Destructive more.
wanna know your opinion thx.
Fight on is decent and i do have the 3/5 in it. But theres nothing else I would want to take from for the other 2 points, everything else is scaling my overall damage. And once you have the close to 0 cooldown on shield going, Fight on becomes irrelevant quickly.
Blighting power is a must have imo (directly effects everything related to single target build, COI and chill strike.)
If by Blizzard Wrath you mean Wizard Wrath, against must have, direct effect to all aoe powers.
Frozen Power Transfer: If you do not invest in this feat, the single target damage I outline will not be possible.
Destructive Wizardry: Purely focused on your personal DPS/Damage increase, if you do not invest here, in my opinion you should be going all the way to end of THAUM for assailing force, I would also recommend Tempest Magic.
Like I state in my guide, overall THAUM is the better "full" spec if your are not hybrid IMO. Although it may not maximize your personal damage, it brings soooo much more to the group.
Hope this helps.
i slotted Chlling Presence\Eye of the Storm in Class Features, i got Power Transfer Feat,
then i keep stacking Chilling Clouds on draco with nothing but my encounters on rotation, rof, chill strike, ioc and icy shards... i dont see a dmg increase at all.... is the dmg supposed to increase on each consecutive encounter i hit with?
or is it max dmg after 6 chill stacks?
i almost had draco to myself the whole fight, and i did some 2.5m dmg on him, saw nothing out of the ordinary and i dont see the dmg increase.
anyone?
can it be replicated on the dummies?
As far as for Eye of the Storm bug, this requires both Chilling Cloud and Frozen Power Transfer, seems to be directly linked to Frozen Power Transfer however. Whenever this is refreshed it likes to refresh other buffs that are up. When I say other buffs, it's not limited to just Eye of the Storm. I've tested Destructive Wizardry bugging out as well with same mechanic and even the Holy Avenger weapon enchantment proc bugging out from Frozen Power Transfer. Even seen prestidigitation attempts to bug out and stack up to 20+ times, although I didn't notice a stat change(to see this you must be with another CW with it). I would assume almost any proced buff on yourself can be refreshed if it lasts long enough via Frozen Power Transfer.
(I been running and testing a build which has these bugs in it since the patch, not that I wanted/tried to build around bugs, it just happened. I have submitted feedback and bug reports before and they haven't commented/fixed any involving these issues "yet".)
Yes, you should be able to see it happening with only auto attacking, powers aside.
nightmare wizardry no longer procs on ourselves ? meaning only allies or ???
No, when nightmare wizardry procs it is a "debuff". It is meant to go on mobs/enemies. There was a bug for the longest time where it would proc onto yourself, therefore debuffing yourself. That piece of it is what finally has been fixed.
doaxira, i cant get this working... if it would work, shouldnt it incrase my dmg for every cholling cloud rotation? like every thrid chilling strike?
about how long of just auto attacking chilling cloud on the dummy would it take for a 100k+ ice knife? i dont see the dmg increase...
Its a steady slow gain. Make sure you have chilling presence slotted as your class feature, then yes, just simple auto attacks with chilling cloud into the dummy, and you should see the increase. It should be very noticeable after a minutes time.
"The recommendations in this guide assume you will be running T2/CN with at least one and preferably two other CWs speced for group focus. This build leverages the other CWs to achieve the top Paingiver slot and depends upon game mechanics (such as infinite damage scaling) that were obviously not intended and will probably be fixed soon."
Actually if you read more closely, you will see I do not use the single target mechanic in our regular group runs, its a waste of time, it requires minutes to start taking effect and if your running with 2 great TR's, its irrelevant. Our normal group comp is 2 CW's, and I have solo'd it with decent DC's many times. However yes, if there are 2 CW's, the entire group will benefit from having 2 different style CW's that I outline (IMO, however you see others here even arguing that).
Understand HV 4 set is a group effect, SW 4 set is a group effect, the THAUM effects are group effects. There is nothing in here that allows a CW to gain an advantage over other players damage wise except the single target chill damage. Everyone in the group is on an equal playing field with everything else outlined in here, and using this guide with similar gear, you will top ever single CN run in damage with or without the single target chill damage.
HV for 2 wizards stack (so you get 6 stacks). also they refresh from each others abilities. so having 2 is actually better than 1 (single targetting especially)
also i think this bug has something to do with not having snap freeze.
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For my build you would want to assign all your points into INT/CHA. All about damage/crit.