t3hwh173f0xMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2013
The problem here as well as with the TRs and GFs is not a problem with the class. It is a problem with the tenebrous enchantments.
They need to do something about those tenebs or all the end game (level 60+) content is broken.
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derpaderpistMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Implying that you're a PvP veteran in a game that is like 3 months old ? rofl
" We live in an age of the cheaply made, disposable, high priced junk. " - theunwarshed
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ulutiuMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited August 2013
Isn't silly, this is true doesnt need nerf just reworking .
Actually : GF dps deal more than GWF dps but GWF tank better than GF tank.
Actually : TR is broken : Perma stealth, AoE control over time , even if you dot a TR in stealth mode you can do nothing vs smart TR.
Actually : perfect Vorpal enchant make rich mens and glitchers who play crit ( gwf, tr, cw ) extremely powerful ( too ? ) .
Actually : If you pay you have advantage in pvp = mount . Mount are extremely expensives and the free mount grant only 50 % when epic mount give 110 % , speed is essential in capture point. The price for level up mount is dumb : 2 M AD for rare tiers to epic tiers, its like 3 times more expensive than nightmare horse x)
Isn't silly, this is true doesnt need nerf just reworking .
Actually : GF dps deal more than GWF dps but GWF tank better than GF tank.
Actually : TR is broken : Perma stealth, AoE control over time , even if you dot a TR in stealth mode you can do nothing vs smart TR.
Actually : perfect Vorpal enchant make rich mens and glitchers who play crit ( gwf, tr, cw ) extremely powerful ( too ? ) .
Actually : If you pay you have advantage in pvp = mount . Mount are extremely expensives and the free mount grant only 50 % when epic mount give 110 % , speed is essential in capture point. The price for level up mount is dumb : 2 M AD for rare tiers to epic tiers, its like 3 times more expensive than nightmare horse x)
And that is the reason why one does not play NW anymore...
Carnage TR Dragon shard - retired? hell yea it's retired along with Nevewinter
I play one, and it needs a nerf. IT is stupid that I can hold 4 plp equally geared in one base, and they are not able to kill me at all, here and there I have to run and pot, but 10 seconds later Im back on those 4. It is game breaking, way more than perma stealth TR.
Nerf it now please. It is not fun when I do it, and it is uber annoying when Im on any of my other toons.
OK so reading between the lines here "I fought a GWF and I'm a ****, he could own us because he was geared high and skilled so I decided to try and get them nerfed by pretending I am a GWF who wants a nerf on myself"
I had a similar experience on my level 19 GWF, had people beating on me with apparently just their at-wills and didn't bother to dodge so I was able to almost spam unstoppable and keep four people on me without fear of dying. If people bothered to use their encounters it wasn't any of their CC ones (or maybe just used them when I was glowing huge and red), and they also didn't think to get out of the way when I was using avalanche of steel. Not sure if bots or bads, but I found it hilarious that I tanked four players long enough to allow the team to cap the other two points and come mop up the third.
That said, I was also wrecked by a CW who used their cc properly and kept their distance. One TR in particular also dodged all of my restoring strikes and takedowns, so I couldn't get many good hits in or restore my health. So I guess the moral of the story is "When fighting a GWF, don't be dumb".
So pro players, please tell me: how to stop the Unstoppable?
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drexarginMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 11Arc User
edited August 2013
Unsure if that was a pun or a real question, but anyway
If you are solo, run around in a circle while waiting for it to go away, then unleash everything you have, rince and repeat.
Dont do what 90% of the people do, stand still and take it in the face, then type "lol u so bad cant w8 4 patch" when you are dead. (That last part goes for everyone, no matter the circumstance, and if you really feel the urge to say it, at least make sure you are up to date with the patch-notes)
On the other hand, if you have access to big or semi big hits (lashing blade, battle strike, ice knife, anything from a guardian etc ), dont hesitate to just use it if the gwf is low on hp and unstoppable. Unstoppable doesnt mean unkillable. I see this very often, rogues who wont engage no matter what (except for shocking execution), or other gwf's who are still waiting with their encounters even if one nice battle strike would end me right there, often instead ending up with me running or soulforge finally kicking in before my unstoppable runs out of juice.
If you are a cleric, run to your friends if possible
Unsure if that was a pun or a real question, but anyway
That wasn't a joke question. I was really curious about the answer)
I am GF, and when i see a GWF spamming his unstoppable, i do exactly the same thing you've advised to - do not engage and wait for the GWF to calm down. But i often have my teammates (not really, just pugs) attacking that Unstoppable. And here i have a question: how does that heal on him work? It looks like the GWF heals while unstoppable, but from what? From his own attacks? From receiving damage? Enlighten me please
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reagan247Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2013
It's mind boggling that people will send me private messages saying I'm OP in PvP... when all they did was stand there and let me beat on them. CWs are the worst about that. It's beyond the "Learn to play" retort and more like "Learn to Dodge Idiots". GWFs are not tough to beat, if you dodge and use CC abilities. I also do not use the tenes, I prioritized ArmPen & Regen & Lifesteal and use a Ancient greatsword with a Greater Lifedrinker enchant. I am nearly unkillable with multiple PvP matches with no deaths.
Here is the build if anyone wants it. I use 2 Titan's set pieces and 2 Vigilant Warlord's set pieces, a Greater Soulforged and almost all Dark enchantments, except 1 silvery enchants. I also went 22 Stre, 19 Con, & 19 Dex.
drexarginMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 11Arc User
edited August 2013
Regarding unstoppable and healing.
You can get a feat that will make you heal 5% of your hitpoints, thats all the healing unstoppable can do, unless you count the temporary hitpoints (10-20% depending on determination). Oh, and if they are in the tier 1 pvp set they get another 10% as 4-set bonus, but the armor is all about offense, so they wont be tanking well and its pretty pointless, imo.
If they have the titan set for example (t2 tanky stuff) they also have like 1k regen or so (cant remember, its a decent amount), and then there is lifesteal, pots etc, depends on the gear. Oh, and some people use the Restoring Strike encounter, which heals for 40% of the damage done, plus 50% extra as a hot if they are full sentinel, the damage however is nothing spectacular.
But well, like i mentioned, unstoppable itself doesnt heal at all unless speced for.
It is also worth mentioning that if you pop unstoppable with just half a bar of determination instead of a full bar you basically only get half the effect, 25% damage reduction instead of 50%, 10% temporary hitpoints instead of 20%, and of course the duration will be shorter. So there is a drawback of just popping it as fast as possible.
Sent will most likely be nerfed at some point in the near future, I wouldn't doubt it. I've played with certain GWFs that are literally unbeatable because of their regen and health, combined with feats. Expect something like the TR perma nerf a-comin'.
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reagan247Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Sent will most likely be nerfed at some point in the near future, I wouldn't doubt it. I've played with certain GWFs that are literally unbeatable because of their regen and health, combined with feats. Expect something like the TR perma nerf a-comin'.
Why does everyone say "It will be nerfed"? With Health and Regen gear, the mechanic is no different than anything else. We are literally doing what everyone else is doing, not relying on a bug or glitch, and stacking gear that no one else is wanting. That and we are hitting different softcaps than the Crit/Recovery/Power stats everyone else goes for. I'd say stacking regen gear is smarter than doing Crit stacks with a Perfect Vorpal, but no one running with a Perfect Vorpal is going to "get nerfed".
With all due respect, from my experience, I found that the majority of people who call for a "nerf" AND/OR a "buff", both have limited to no experience with the class in question. I am not saying everything in this game is perfectly balanced, but the more I play different classes, the more I see how closely balanced and equally effective they are. 90% of the time, it is the content that needs fixing not the classes, pve wise. PvP wise there is a huge gap of skill level between players. There is a gap between players that know how to play their class vs those that don't. There is a gap between characters geared/specced/foccused for PvP vs Casual PvPers. There is a gap between 5 random vs 5 premade on TS. And instead of accepting that and dealing with it, people take the easier route to come on to the forum and complain about said class.
GWF Regen/Tanks are hard to kill but not unkillable. Lots of lols watching a group of 3-4 players trying to kill a GWF all standing there letting the GWF kill them. Pro Tip: Wait till your CC's are up and their unstoppable drops then CC chain to death.
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reagan247Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
With all due respect, from my experience, I found that the majority of people who call for a "nerf" AND/OR a "buff", both have limited to no experience with the class in question. I am not saying everything in this game is perfectly balanced, but the more I play different classes, the more I see how closely balanced and equally effective they are. 90% of the time, it is the content that needs fixing not the classes, pve wise. PvP wise there is a huge gap of skill level between players. There is a gap between players that know how to play their class vs those that don't. There is a gap between characters geared/specced/foccused for PvP vs Casual PvPers. There is a gap between 5 random vs 5 premade on TS. And instead of accepting that and dealing with it, people take the easier route to come on to the forum and complain about said class.
GWF Regen/Tanks are hard to kill but not unkillable. Lots of lols watching a group of 3-4 players trying to kill a GWF all standing there letting the GWF kill them. Pro Tip: Wait till your CC's are up and their unstoppable drops then CC chain to death.
I feel like you are the one TR that keeps killing me in PvP... haha, but seriously are you?
No. GWF are great at level 60 But very weak below that. NO more stupid nerfs or buffs. The rogue is not op by stealth; and they need it to survive. For mine mages are massively OP. When a mage can Ice knife you for more than a rogue's Shocking Execution that's a mistake that requires fixing. Mages are op for what there role is. GWF excel at their role. Leave them alone!
I agree. Sentinel builds must be fixed, but other than that i've never seen yet a unkillable GWF (talking about destroyer builds or any other build except sentinels with high HP).
All you have to do is hit them. When they go unstoppable, dodge and retreat, wait for it to end, then attack again. Don't try to tank.
A well played, well geared GWF is a broken OP class for PvP, especially one that abuses 7 Greater Tenebrous stacking. Every veteran PvPer knows GWF is currently the most OP class in PvP. 2 or 3 good GWFs on the same team means 100% win rate. GWF is the easiest, most OP faceroll class in Neverwinter PvP.
The most reliable and efficient way to kill a properly geared and played GWF is to have a good GF permaknock them down/up/back so they don't have a chance to use Unstoppable, then have your team focus fire them down asap. A great Rogue can solo a great GWF but the Rogue can't make any mistakes and it will take while to whittle down a GWF before you can burst them down with well-timed crit Lashing Blade and/or Shocking Execution that also isn't deflected by the GWF... which basically takes luck. A great CW or DC can stalemate a great GWF but it's nearly impossible for a CW or DC to solo kill a GWF.
The reason why GWFs are unkillable with 4-5 n00bs beating on them is because every hit they take, builds their Determination. If those n00bs can't CC and burst them down fast enough, they'll be able to spam Unstoppable, resulting in unlimited 25-50% damage reduction and temporary hit points. Combined with an insane amount of high base Defense and Deflection, as well as Regen gear, potions, and Soulforged Enchant, a single GWF can contest and capture a point by themselves vs. multiple people that don't know how to counter them.
Your first paragraph could also fill in "GF." There are two GFs on Beholder that Ive seen in max end game gear
and enchants, and either one of them can take me from 100% to 25% in one chain stun rotation (and by the way
my damage resist is 46%). Any GF is an answer to a GWF (assuming good gear and skill level). Its all about timing
blocks to stop telegraphed attacks, and not holding block down like noobs do. Once chain stun BS is up, start over.
More than likely the OP is a rogue who likes to lashing blade people from stealth, than found out that a GWF takes
10% life at worse from that.
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slayorianMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2013
GWF is anything but unkillable in pvp. I worry about a GF coming at me FAR more than a GWF.
Edit: or are we talking about GFW? Really doubting the OP plays a GWF at all.
A well played, well geared GWF is a broken OP class for PvP, especially one that abuses 7 Greater Tenebrous stacking. Every veteran PvPer knows GWF is currently the most OP class in PvP. 2 or 3 good GWFs on the same team means 100% win rate. GWF is the easiest, most OP faceroll class in Neverwinter PvP.
The most reliable and efficient way to kill a properly geared and played GWF is to have a good GF permaknock them down/up/back so they don't have a chance to use Unstoppable, then have your team focus fire them down asap. A great Rogue can solo a great GWF but the Rogue can't make any mistakes and it will take while to whittle down a GWF before you can burst them down with well-timed crit Lashing Blade and/or Shocking Execution that also isn't deflected by the GWF... which basically takes luck. A great CW or DC can stalemate a great GWF but it's nearly impossible for a CW or DC to solo kill a GWF.
The reason why GWFs are unkillable with 4-5 n00bs beating on them is because every hit they take, builds their Determination. If those n00bs can't CC and burst them down fast enough, they'll be able to spam Unstoppable, resulting in unlimited 25-50% damage reduction and temporary hit points. Combined with an insane amount of high base Defense and Deflection, as well as Regen gear, potions, and Soulforged Enchant, a single GWF can contest and capture a point by themselves vs. multiple people that don't know how to counter them.
Well said I hate to see when people say GWF is not OP. It is OP. Everyone can pay real money get BIS gear and lvl 8+ enchants on GWF, after that it takes very little skill( compare to other class) to abuse it in PVP. IF that is not OP then what is? As a CW I would never be able to solo a good skilled and well gear GWF unless I get my eyes of strom off at the perfect time or some lucky Crit. And it is not even about gear it is the skill set and playstyle, if u can only use one playstyle which is easy to master to win, just like a GWF, then why should I play other class and have to adapt different style to try hard and pray for luck in order to win? I just hear so much BS like oh a GWF is not impossible, yeah sure it isn't but it is a lot closer to impossible than other class.
GWF is anything but unkillable in pvp. I worry about a GF coming at me FAR more than a GWF.
Edit: or are we talking about GFW? Really doubting the OP plays a GWF at all.
High end BiS GWF's are regenning for 2k health a tick. I'd love to hear your explanation on how that isnt broken and stupid
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baranthusMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 54
edited August 2013
People need to focus on learning the skills of their own preferred class. GWF is easy to learn but they are far from unkillable. Little things matter like if you are mainly a PvE player who has jumped into PvP and come up against a well-played GWF that's traited for PvP then sure; it is going to be tough. But if you have a PvE GWF that jumps into PvP and comes up against a class that is PvP traited then the GWF will be at a disadvantage. If both are traited for PvP then the person who knows their character best and how to maximise each skill - that person will win.
People need to focus on learning the skills of their own preferred class. GWF is easy to learn but they are far from unkillable. Little things matter like if you are mainly a PvE player who has jumped into PvP and come up against a well-played GWF that's traited for PvP then sure; it is going to be tough. But if you have a PvE GWF that jumps into PvP and comes up against a class that is PvP traited then the GWF will be at a disadvantage. If both are traited for PvP then the person who knows their character best and how to maximise each skill - that person will win.
Hmm its a fact that GWF is the new favorite faceroller class u know , and IT IS OP with the proper build hell a gwf can tank more in pvp than a full tank spec gf.
High end BiS GWF's are regenning for 2k health a tick. I'd love to hear your explanation on how that isnt broken and stupid
What is BIS for GWF that contributes to 2k hp per tick? Last I checked BIS were either a full set or combination of Vigilant and Avatar. Neither of which contribute to HP regen. BIS accessories for GWF are whatever stats you want to focus on, none of which contributes to HP regen. BIS main/off-hand are Ancient gear, none of which contributes to HP regen.
So please without just throwing wild claims, explain to us exactly what is that BIS setup that grants constant 2k hp per tick.
Hmm its a fact that GWF is the new favorite faceroller class u know , and IT IS OP with the proper build hell a gwf can tank more in pvp than a full tank spec gf.
It is a fact that people can't distinguish between Class powers and the ridiculously absurd Tenebrous enchant.
@Coprticone:I never mention about DMG i stated that a gwf with the proper build can tank more than a gf in pvp.
AND I DO PVP A LOT DUDE.
And so what? GWF IS a tank class in ANY spec. Both classes tank using different mechanics. GF uses guard to mitigate 100% damage while needing to regularly recharge, while GWF relies on mitigating a big % of damage through Unstoppable roughly 75% of the time while receiving 10-20% regen during it.
In PvP, tenebrous enchants asisde, they are equally effective. In fact a very well played GF is more tanky and more lethal than a GWF. The thing is GFs have always been in the PvP scene, so people already understand how to deal with them. GWFs on the other hand, only started a recent come back. A tanky "Sentinel" GWF, while can stay standing in PvP for some time is no threat. This changes completely once he stacks 7 greater tenebrous. You fought against HP/mitigation/Tenebrous stacking GFs? Hec even TRs/CWs stacking Tenebrous are sick. Most people aren't addressing the real issue. Not much has changed about GWFs from the days when everyone and mother thought it was the most useless class.
Comments
They need to do something about those tenebs or all the end game (level 60+) content is broken.
Implying that you're a PvP veteran in a game that is like 3 months old ? rofl
Actually : GF dps deal more than GWF dps but GWF tank better than GF tank.
Actually : TR is broken : Perma stealth, AoE control over time , even if you dot a TR in stealth mode you can do nothing vs smart TR.
Actually : perfect Vorpal enchant make rich mens and glitchers who play crit ( gwf, tr, cw ) extremely powerful ( too ? ) .
Actually : If you pay you have advantage in pvp = mount . Mount are extremely expensives and the free mount grant only 50 % when epic mount give 110 % , speed is essential in capture point. The price for level up mount is dumb : 2 M AD for rare tiers to epic tiers, its like 3 times more expensive than nightmare horse x)
And that is the reason why one does not play NW anymore...
Seze - Rogue - Necropolis -
Speaking as someone that does not play or own a TR.....
If that is all that stands in your way of adversity. Good luck.
OK so reading between the lines here "I fought a GWF and I'm a ****, he could own us because he was geared high and skilled so I decided to try and get them nerfed by pretending I am a GWF who wants a nerf on myself"
OK Got the scam.
That said, I was also wrecked by a CW who used their cc properly and kept their distance. One TR in particular also dodged all of my restoring strikes and takedowns, so I couldn't get many good hits in or restore my health. So I guess the moral of the story is "When fighting a GWF, don't be dumb".
If you are solo, run around in a circle while waiting for it to go away, then unleash everything you have, rince and repeat.
Dont do what 90% of the people do, stand still and take it in the face, then type "lol u so bad cant w8 4 patch" when you are dead. (That last part goes for everyone, no matter the circumstance, and if you really feel the urge to say it, at least make sure you are up to date with the patch-notes)
On the other hand, if you have access to big or semi big hits (lashing blade, battle strike, ice knife, anything from a guardian etc
If you are a cleric, run to your friends if possible
I am GF, and when i see a GWF spamming his unstoppable, i do exactly the same thing you've advised to - do not engage and wait for the GWF to calm down. But i often have my teammates (not really, just pugs) attacking that Unstoppable. And here i have a question: how does that heal on him work? It looks like the GWF heals while unstoppable, but from what? From his own attacks? From receiving damage? Enlighten me please
Here is the build if anyone wants it. I use 2 Titan's set pieces and 2 Vigilant Warlord's set pieces, a Greater Soulforged and almost all Dark enchantments, except 1 silvery enchants. I also went 22 Stre, 19 Con, & 19 Dex.
If you need an account, click here to sign up.
You can get a feat that will make you heal 5% of your hitpoints, thats all the healing unstoppable can do, unless you count the temporary hitpoints (10-20% depending on determination). Oh, and if they are in the tier 1 pvp set they get another 10% as 4-set bonus, but the armor is all about offense, so they wont be tanking well and its pretty pointless, imo.
If they have the titan set for example (t2 tanky stuff) they also have like 1k regen or so (cant remember, its a decent amount), and then there is lifesteal, pots etc, depends on the gear. Oh, and some people use the Restoring Strike encounter, which heals for 40% of the damage done, plus 50% extra as a hot if they are full sentinel, the damage however is nothing spectacular.
But well, like i mentioned, unstoppable itself doesnt heal at all unless speced for.
It is also worth mentioning that if you pop unstoppable with just half a bar of determination instead of a full bar you basically only get half the effect, 25% damage reduction instead of 50%, 10% temporary hitpoints instead of 20%, and of course the duration will be shorter. So there is a drawback of just popping it as fast as possible.
Why does everyone say "It will be nerfed"? With Health and Regen gear, the mechanic is no different than anything else. We are literally doing what everyone else is doing, not relying on a bug or glitch, and stacking gear that no one else is wanting. That and we are hitting different softcaps than the Crit/Recovery/Power stats everyone else goes for. I'd say stacking regen gear is smarter than doing Crit stacks with a Perfect Vorpal, but no one running with a Perfect Vorpal is going to "get nerfed".
If you need an account, click here to sign up.
+1 to everything you just said.
If you need an account, click here to sign up.
I feel like you are the one TR that keeps killing me in PvP... haha, but seriously are you?
If you need an account, click here to sign up.
All you have to do is hit them. When they go unstoppable, dodge and retreat, wait for it to end, then attack again. Don't try to tank.
Your first paragraph could also fill in "GF." There are two GFs on Beholder that Ive seen in max end game gear
and enchants, and either one of them can take me from 100% to 25% in one chain stun rotation (and by the way
my damage resist is 46%). Any GF is an answer to a GWF (assuming good gear and skill level). Its all about timing
blocks to stop telegraphed attacks, and not holding block down like noobs do. Once chain stun BS is up, start over.
More than likely the OP is a rogue who likes to lashing blade people from stealth, than found out that a GWF takes
10% life at worse from that.
Edit: or are we talking about GFW? Really doubting the OP plays a GWF at all.
Well said I hate to see when people say GWF is not OP. It is OP. Everyone can pay real money get BIS gear and lvl 8+ enchants on GWF, after that it takes very little skill( compare to other class) to abuse it in PVP. IF that is not OP then what is? As a CW I would never be able to solo a good skilled and well gear GWF unless I get my eyes of strom off at the perfect time or some lucky Crit. And it is not even about gear it is the skill set and playstyle, if u can only use one playstyle which is easy to master to win, just like a GWF, then why should I play other class and have to adapt different style to try hard and pray for luck in order to win? I just hear so much BS like oh a GWF is not impossible, yeah sure it isn't but it is a lot closer to impossible than other class.
High end BiS GWF's are regenning for 2k health a tick. I'd love to hear your explanation on how that isnt broken and stupid
Hmm its a fact that GWF is the new favorite faceroller class u know , and IT IS OP with the proper build hell a gwf can tank more in pvp than a full tank spec gf.
What is BIS for GWF that contributes to 2k hp per tick? Last I checked BIS were either a full set or combination of Vigilant and Avatar. Neither of which contribute to HP regen. BIS accessories for GWF are whatever stats you want to focus on, none of which contributes to HP regen. BIS main/off-hand are Ancient gear, none of which contributes to HP regen.
So please without just throwing wild claims, explain to us exactly what is that BIS setup that grants constant 2k hp per tick.
It is a fact that people can't distinguish between Class powers and the ridiculously absurd Tenebrous enchant.
AND I DO PVP A LOT DUDE.
And so what? GWF IS a tank class in ANY spec. Both classes tank using different mechanics. GF uses guard to mitigate 100% damage while needing to regularly recharge, while GWF relies on mitigating a big % of damage through Unstoppable roughly 75% of the time while receiving 10-20% regen during it.
In PvP, tenebrous enchants asisde, they are equally effective. In fact a very well played GF is more tanky and more lethal than a GWF. The thing is GFs have always been in the PvP scene, so people already understand how to deal with them. GWFs on the other hand, only started a recent come back. A tanky "Sentinel" GWF, while can stay standing in PvP for some time is no threat. This changes completely once he stacks 7 greater tenebrous. You fought against HP/mitigation/Tenebrous stacking GFs? Hec even TRs/CWs stacking Tenebrous are sick. Most people aren't addressing the real issue. Not much has changed about GWFs from the days when everyone and mother thought it was the most useless class.