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Damage from stealth in PVP need to be fixed
abacuser
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
That rogues can do damage from stealth in PVP is so extremely unbalanced that the question is if there is any reason to continue playing PVP in NW as a CW? Risk vs Reward is incredible off.
As a CW I face two rogues in 4 out of 5 PVP rounds. This because rogues by far are the best killing class and any level of player can _0wN_ with it. If I’m the only caster they will follow me like homing missiles – or flies to <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
The problem is that we have tanking classes that is not tanking since the focus mainly is on the CW and DC.
To be constructive, give CW (and possibly DC) a new ability called ‘Heighten Awareness’. This ability lets the user see stealth from a greater distance. The rogues can now continue to attack the tanks in the same manners but the caster will have a chance to avoid damage/death by someone unseen.
To brain storm there are a few other things that might be a solution to this issue:
1. Remove stealth damage but let everyone else than rogue die at 50% health if a rogue hits them.
2. Let everyone have stealth and 3 secs of invulnerability, usable from all scenarios.
3. Make the rogue have a cow bell so it’s possible to hear them all over the map at all times.
4. Remove stealth damage but let the rogues summon any opponent just in time for lashing blade. Of course with the opponent facing away from the rogue.
5. Remove stealth damage but give the rogue the ability to make the screen black for the other opponents for a short duration of time.
6. Remove stealth damage but increase the range of lashing blade to 80.
7. And last, at Zen market, add a new item called ‘Uber me’. That item will transform your character into a rogue with corresponding gear.
PS. Those wanting to reply about skill to avoid stealth dmg. Just stop it! I have watched recordings frame by frame and there is no pixel visible with FOV 75 before lashing blade (and throwing knifes or impact shot) hits.
As a CW I face two rogues in 4 out of 5 PVP rounds. This because rogues by far are the best killing class and any level of player can _0wN_ with it. If I’m the only caster they will follow me like homing missiles – or flies to <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
The problem is that we have tanking classes that is not tanking since the focus mainly is on the CW and DC.
To be constructive, give CW (and possibly DC) a new ability called ‘Heighten Awareness’. This ability lets the user see stealth from a greater distance. The rogues can now continue to attack the tanks in the same manners but the caster will have a chance to avoid damage/death by someone unseen.
To brain storm there are a few other things that might be a solution to this issue:
1. Remove stealth damage but let everyone else than rogue die at 50% health if a rogue hits them.
2. Let everyone have stealth and 3 secs of invulnerability, usable from all scenarios.
3. Make the rogue have a cow bell so it’s possible to hear them all over the map at all times.
4. Remove stealth damage but let the rogues summon any opponent just in time for lashing blade. Of course with the opponent facing away from the rogue.
5. Remove stealth damage but give the rogue the ability to make the screen black for the other opponents for a short duration of time.
6. Remove stealth damage but increase the range of lashing blade to 80.
7. And last, at Zen market, add a new item called ‘Uber me’. That item will transform your character into a rogue with corresponding gear.
PS. Those wanting to reply about skill to avoid stealth dmg. Just stop it! I have watched recordings frame by frame and there is no pixel visible with FOV 75 before lashing blade (and throwing knifes or impact shot) hits.
Post edited by abacuser on
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If you are playing right up in the enemies face then yeah TR's will have ample opportunity to get the jump on you, sit back a little, even if it means you aren't helping cap the point, b/c again you are the ranged nuke/cc so being in the fray is not your optimal role. The last PvP I did with my CW was 18/1/20, yes we are squishy, but if you play safe you can do extremely well and still not die. (I would link SS but I'm my computer at work)
I really like my CW build and I almost always win 1v1 against other CW so I will not post my exact build =P but I will say all 4 of your slotted powers should be CC (and no you don't sacrifice much damage if any doing this) you have to stay away from the TR while he's stealthed, or if its on a point use the aoe daze daily. While he is in stealth yes he's hard to hurt, but the moment he pops out of stealth you can lock him down from full health to dead, your job is to stay alive until then. Also if you see him pop out of stealth with impossible to catch active hold off on your abilities until you see it fade, then open up on him.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
P.S Stealth does not increase damage of Lashing blade but only makes sure that it critically strikes. The feat that increases crit severity by 25% on stealth does not apply to Lashing blade from stealth since it is an out of stealth skill. tried it no damage difference just a sure crit.
My dream today is to not get 1 shot by a rogue or to match up against any Tene's. Its my dream!!!
We are not going to deny that GWF's are OP, but this thread is not about GWF's. I have more problems with TR;s then I do with GWF's and this is about being 1-2 shot from stealth or not while at elast with a GWF you can get away if you really want.
I have a 60 GWF, CW and TR and TR is the most OP class followed closely by the GWF. The stealth is what takes the TR over the top though.
If you die to a TR as a CW then you are doing it wrong....CW's eat TR's for breakfast, lunch and dinner.
Lol then you are either not specced for PvP or, sorry to say it, but are playing poorly.
For under 200k I respecced and geared out my GWF to be a PvP beast, 35k HP 39.1% deflect (54.1% with weapon master stacks) 9.5% regen (1250 ish) and 46-47% dmg reduction. Yes I hit like a wet noodle but my wet noodle kills every other class except a match specced GWF with me being 75% or more health at the end. I can hold points 1v3 for 45 seconds before I sprint away and live only to circle back and retake the point. No class (without greater Tene's) can solo a good GWF.
Also I really want to see the SS of someone complaining about TR's one shotting them. both the shot of a 26k crit on a player and a shot of the players gear not being greens and blues... My CW in high viz has never been one shot from full health by a TR, ever.
Edit: I also don't use shield in PvP so its not like I just absorb part of the damage
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Now the broad mass have seen the top rogues play and the last week there are knifes flying and impact shots coming from every crappy player out there, with very little risk.
I could teach my 8 year old boy to remove half your CW HP with a rogue no matter how much awesome sauce you just ate. In some cases you’d even die.
Also, it doesn't matter how skilled you are if there is a chance for a lashing blade to hit you without warning. Read carefully, sometimes it is IMPOSSIBLE to see the lashing coming. There is no item to buy or button to press against this.
Sure, I often see them but due to lag or middle of casting or other reasons it's not always possible to get out. This wouldn't be a problem if our visibility was greater.
Bottom line is that there has to be a risk to every reward in a balanced game and right now that has failed.
At least you've accurately described yourself in this comment. Stealth is what a rogue does, it's been that way in D & D since it began. Get over it, get better gear, stop whining. The patch is fixing the perma build issue, but it's what they do, get over it.
Its funny hearing more crys about this stealth <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. If you knew anything about the rogue class you would know the guys using the perma-stealth build are totally gimped for dmg, unless of course they are running 7 G-Tenebs(and theres what...10 on a server?..they make up of .001%of the population).
Also, because of the gimpy Dodge mechanic in this game, yes..sometimes it "is" very difficult to actually land lashing blade. What do you mean? Well. From a rogues pov, probably 5 out of 10 LB's are dodged, AFTER the animation has already stuck the enemy. Meaning your oh so powerful easy mode Lashing Blade isnt so easy, anyone with good reaction time can dodge the LB attack if they are quick enough because of bad game mechanics.
Impact Shot has a very very close range, with a very obvious animation. Do better at dodging it
Learn to play better. Know who you are against before the match starts. Realize as a CW you are Public Enemy #1 aside from DC's, and most smart rogues will burst a CW down before the DC anyway. Use terrain, slot CoI and dot every rogue you see at range. There are so many affective ways to combat a good rogue. Watch some videos, learn, practice. Stop flooding forums with craptastic whines cuz some rogue owned you with a fiew skills because you were to slow to dodge them, or pay attention to your surroundings.
Gross@u
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Long story short: I have same GS as you. I never get 1 shot by TR's. You have to stay in the back or with support so you can throw out damage/cc and survive.
Other post was much longer but it got deleted somehow and I really don't feel like retyping...
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
I take it you are a rogue wanting to keep owning. It’s not the stealth in itself but your awesome and unique play style that makes the magic happen?
I have played many MMO but none where it’s possible to do substantial damage with little to no risk in PVP – D & D or not.
Thankfully NW isn't just like every other MMO and introduced something new and unique. And now everyone wants to destroy it b/c they refuse to take the time to learn to counter it.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
One shot is quite rare among PUGs. The rogue needs Perfect Vorpal to do it (or maybe Greater Vorpal is enough?).
Removing more than 50% of my life happens quite often though in PUGs. Sometimes that's happens with no risk when I'm at 50% life and die from the blow.
With the correct support, like a GF knocking the opponents away and a DC healing me, most things are easy. Standing at the back is no safe spot.
Any good perma-stealth rogue not using 7 G-Tenebs will be the first to tell you there dmg is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. Because they sacrifice just about everything in order to stay stealthed. They slot LB for dmg encounter<---which because of buggy dodge is easily dodged if you have even the slightest reaction time and are paying attention.
You are complaining about perma stealth rogues running 7 G-Tene's..which make up all of 0.000% of the population. If you are getting owned by perma stealth builds currently from rogues with a gs of 10-11k(which is the majority of geared rogues), then its because you are bad, and deserve to be killed. At best they are an annoyance.
They nerfed Perma-Stealth not because of PvP, but because rogues were soloing Epic Boss's with it in PvE.
Whats going to happen after the patch, is you are going to be getting hit 5x as hard and faster by TR's, because they are going to be using LB/Impact/Dazing. Which in the right rotation is the highest DPS a TR can put out in a matter of 3 CD's.
End state:--->Prepare yourself for an even bigger asskicking from good rogues when/if the patch goes live.
Cheers!
But they didn't nerf perma-stealth right? They left the same timer on Lurkers (10 sec), at-wills no longer deplete stealth either. They just lowered lurkers damage and number of daggers. And lowered DF but that's pretty much PvE skill.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Squishy means NOT standing toe to toe with someone in plate mail which TR do all the time in PvP.....I don't know if its deflect or what but leather armor seems better than GWF or GF with shield.
I am not sure about numbers but I played around with a TR and it seemed to have similar HP gain to my other classes (CW and GF). That being said, "okay, rogues are robe killers...fine." Someone else commented on the level of enchantments people are running with and how its like .001 % who are all tenes'd out with greaters. I disagree...I have only been 1 shot once before...but when you add in the daggers from stealth and follow up attacks while I am unable to dodge or use any skills and its a death sentence. I would be okay with all this if they didn't do similar things to my GF who is wearing the Stalwart set minus the helm....I don't really know what Cryptic can do about it. I don't really think its class specific but enchantments and build. People learn to use the system to create killing machines of every class.....So unless you are willing to drop 100's or 1000's of dollars.....or exploited early game dynamics farming AD you are screwed. I am not trying to claim I am an awesome player but I feel I am decent. I never have problems with GWF or GF 1v1...just wanted to add my 2 cents I guess....Cryptic makes money off enchantments and that is the real problem I guess.....can't expect them to give up their cash cow. I was shocked when I saw the chances of making a charm 1%
1. You make wrongful assumptions.
2. See 1.
Dodge impact shot? Yes, I'm very good but not that good.
Show me a video of a perma stealth rogue "not" using the greater tene package and destroying a competant decently geared player. I will absolutely retract my statement.
Impact Shot can be dodged.
Also, a true perma-stealth build has no room for using Impact Shot. Thus even mentioning the ability when talking about perma-stealth and there "opness" is wrong to start with..
I havent played in a fiew days so not sure if anything has actually been implemented.
Lurkers animation/graphics however have changed, as well as the tool tip. I dont believe the dmg though has actually changed. I was still getting 20-33k crits using LA/LB 4 days ago, and I still had 12 CoS charges.
The last I heard the CoS if/when patched live, was going from 12, to 8 charges. LA is going from 20/40/60% dmg to 20%dmg max, and using encounter abilities while in stealth significantly reduces stealth meter. Which in turns puts a bat to the perma-stealth build. As well as Duelist Fury restarting and refreshing the dmg once it hits 10 stacks.
Again, havent played in 4 days. So far as I know, nothing has changed. Perma-stealth builds are still out there
Tell me o wise one how to dodge and kill two stealth rogues that stalk you the whole match. Thats how usually i end up. Dont bring up singularity, you cant have it ready every time you really need it.
Perma stealth is the only build that bothers me in TR. I had a TR once that reentered cloak 5-7 seconds after his full stealth rotation was done, i managed to land two skills and loop began again. That is simply broken. And the longer i play the more i believe that support classes will never be decent at PvP. If you want to shred people choose one from golden triangle, TR, GWF, GF.
Slot CoI. If that isnt the first encounter you use when you get the chance to see a rogue you are doing it wrong/imo. Its ok to run away and wait for back up too =P
It requires a target... It will not contribute much to team if i run away instead of holding our point. But that brings another issue about CW being <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> at point holding and defense. Even clerics are better at it.
Shield has very short range, its long cool down and gross cast time make it a burden in PvP. They are easier to deal with when i see how they advance, which is not always the case and if TR has two brain cells that function he also knows how to use dodge when casting cloak. With other words no class in game has an efficient encounter to bring out stealth TR once the sequence begun, unless we count daily... I guess its a blessing we do not have a 1v1 in this game. Stealth TRs are broken. Support classes are not useless but it takes far more stress resistance to be good then pushing a key and begin rotation on stealth TRs parts. I still doubt Cryptic will give them buff anytime soon. So we will see the golden triangle for a long time in PvP.
Heres a pretty even match, lots of 1 vs 1's and how I was doing my best to deal with the rogues. I fealt it went pretty well, we had a duschcock leave for some reason though so we ended up losing.
Yes..I used Ice Knife on the GWF in unstoppable, I get it, was a mistake..Moving on --->Its a good pvp fight video =P
Maybe this'll help buddy, if not hope you enjoy anyway I had fun making them
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9dhyKtBD7w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q07C51NeIT0
omg I cant believes that people are forced to dies at 2 v1's's battlez how unfair.
First, you run away as best you can and use abilities like Icy Terrain, Steal Time, and Shield that don't require targeting.
Second, you have teammates for a reason. These aren't duels and PvP is a team sport. Communicate and work together.
Third, if you're doing the first and second steps then you should already know the third - hit them as hard as you can as soon as your teammates make it possible, but until them go after other targets.
Sometimes its impossible to tell when a Lashing Blade is coming. Which is the point its an instant burst attack. Its about anticipation. I've fought plenty of rogues, some stronger than me and still over come them. On both as another rogue and a control wizard. Most rogues rely on Lashing Blade and Impact shot for damage. Lashing blade can easily be anticipated.
Impact shot however is a pain and cannot be avoided all the time unless you hurry and dodge out of range of the next hit.
There are various tactics that needs to be applied to go against these classes. Just because some fail to realize and see them, doesnt mean there needs to be an adjustment to it.
Also if the Lashing Blade hit you without warning. That mean you just so happened to be facing the wrong direction at the time, or too focused on anything else. Every other time, you have at least a second to move out of the way, because you will see the rogue right on you in stealth. A rogue has to be close enough to you in stealth to be seen to use that ability. How they do this is by going behind you. They can be right on your back, and you cant see them, because it is a blind spot.
And as far as perma stealth rogues go. They have to do a full rotation to keep thier flow going. Anticipate where they are. If they are throwing daggers, you can tell immediately and you have skills that can help you track them down. It takes some guess work, but using your senses you can find them, and when you do. You can mess up thier entire rotation, and they wont be able to fight back decently.
Theres also the tactic to retreat. You dont have to fight EVERY opponent you see. choose your battles.
I would especially say this if they have the Ten enchants and they are perma stealth. Avoid them all together.
Thats all the advise I'll be giving. If people cant think and figure this stuff out on thier own.