Celestial Coins, please make them not decay or up the timer.

zebular · August 2013

(This is not about Ardent Coins, which do not decay and have no cap)

. . . . . In the past, I have only ever played one character at a time, even through Alpha and Beta. Therefore, up until now I never truly grasped the complaint people have been making about Celestial Coins decaying in 29 hours if you don't Invoke the Gods in time. However, now having four characters that all can Invoke the Gods, I have become aware and share in with their displeasure.

. . . . . This has now happened twice, where four of my characters are sitting at 4/7 Celestial Coins and either health or family matters have kept me from logging in within the allowed time period, missing it by just a few hours, loosing days of praying to save up the coins just do I can buy the 5-coin profession pack.

. . . . . Considering we are all capped at having a maximum of 7 Celestial Coins per character, I do not understand why they even need to decay in the first place. Furthermore, for working adults, people with health issues, and others who cannot spend every waking day playing a computer game, having something in the game like this is only a cause for aggravation.

. . . . . I would like to see the decay removed all-together from Celestial Coins and the cap of 7 remain in place. However, if there absolutely MUST be a decay rate on them, then I suggest removing the cap and upping the decay rate to 168.0 hours (one week) from last prayer. I know my Forgotten Realms Gods very well and they may be fickle but they are not so fickle that they would strip someone of their divine favor because they were physically, mentally, or just otherwise unable to pray. Well, some of the evil deities might... still though...

. . . . . Besides, even though this is an MMO, you must take into consideration the day-to-day lives of your player-base. I understand this is a boon for those who "commit to playing every day" but really all this does is encourage people to log in, log out, log in, log out. This cannot be good for the server or the mentality of the player base. Removing or upping the timer drastically, will alleviate this and remove the feeling of "having to play."

Thank you for your time.

abell39 · August 2013

Being someone who also works practically full-time for the summer, does college full-time when it's in season, and has family stuff to handle for most of the rest of the time in between, I feel the same but never posted for fear of being perceived as whiny by people who can log in often. Thanks.

Even if the counter would just take one coin instead of resetting completely, that would be a lot nicer than losing 6 coins when I can't log in for a day and have to start over for another week.

tang56 · August 2013

I've also lost coins a few times due to RL commitments. It would be nice if the coins either didn't decay as fast or decayed at a rate of one every 29 hours. Losing up to 6 for missing one "day" is just a pain.

zebular · August 2013

. . . . . .Yeah, I also wouldn't mind just the simple change to a decay of 1 C.Coin per 29 hours missed. This would be more in line with the fickle nature of the Gods anyway, in my opinion of the Gods and their Favor and Disdain. To loose them all at once though... to me that is a sheer "slap in the face" feeling.

gudgeonator · August 2013

It's just one of the many techniques the game uses to encourage and reinforce addictive behaviours. I'd be surprised if other F2P cash shop games don't use similar techniques.

The end goal is to have people spend actual cash money on the game - which they are more likely to do if they are fully committed to the game, and desirous of the bibs and bobs of pixely awesome that make you *better* at the game. The coins are the continuous reinforcement side of the games conditioning model : reward every time you do it - *if* you play the game when you're supposed to - which in PWE's eyes is every day.

Then there's the partial reinforcement aspect: the randomized rewards you can redeem from the coins themselves are a prime example of that (as are the lockboxes). Want that coalescent ward or lockbox enchant? press the button rat. Sometimes you get it, sometimes you don't. Very strong form of conditioning once the behaviour has been learned.

Probably also pads out their use metrics nicely. Log ons per day.

vigilantejustice · August 2013

Both coins from a casual player perspective have drawbacks. I wish the A coins could gain more than 1 per day as long as you have not reached your max. So if I can't play for a week but can play for 3 hours one night I could get 3 coins up to the max allowed. This would basically be a catch up for the casual players or maybe toons that have not been a primary focus on someones account. Lets face it logging on just to pray, log off, and switch toons, pray. Is not fun. I would rather have a more natural feel of "hey my friend's on and needs a DC, I'll jump on with mine. and build some A Coins as we go".

yyrkoonstyphoon · August 2013

I lose power with some level of frequency because i live 'in the sticks' and have lost coins due to no power. I personally would like to see this be part of the gateway web site so if my comp is unavailable, I can still use my phone.

I would love to see the timer tel me when the coins are next available as well. Often after playing late one night, I am still hours away from having the 'coin prayer' the following day and have to keep trying till i get the coins.

nukeyoo · August 2013

If you don't continuously run the daily maze in the time allotted, you don't get the cheese... Simple and effective

thebriman · August 2013

See, Zeb, I told you nothing good can come from honoring a dead goddess. Tymora would never treat me so callously *jumps behind a passerby to dodge incoming mage wrath*

I actually don't mind that they decay all that much, but I would really like to see a more user-friendly timer. Rather than having two separate timers per character (one set from the last time the character invoked, to determine when the celestial coins disappear and another set from when the character last received coins to determine when they can next receive them), wouldn't it be easier on all parties if it were a static 24 hour clock. Have it reset at, say, 3am PST. The first time a character invokes after that reset time, they receive coins. If they go from one reset time to the next without invoking at all, they lose coins. That way it would be a little easier to track and be aware of, since the cutoff wouldn't change from day to day.

I do like the proposed idea of losing one coin per missed day rather than the whole shebang, though. That way it still rewards for logging in daily and punishes for missing a day, but the punishment wouldn't be nearly as harsh.

zebular · August 2013

thebriman wrote: »

See, Zeb, I told you nothing good can come from honoring a dead goddess. Tymora would never treat me so callously *jumps behind a passerby to dodge incoming mage wrath*

. . . . . Mystryl, or whatever the mortals call her, is not dead. Nay, far from it... It's clear her Weave will be restored, as I have seen, as others have seen and as Mystryl her self in ages past has foreseen. Nay, she is no more dead than Tymora herself.

thebriman wrote: »

I actually don't mind that they decay all that much, but I would really like to see a more user-friendly timer. Rather than having two separate timers per character (one set from the last time the character invoked, to determine when the celestial coins disappear and another set from when the character last received coins to determine when they can next receive them), wouldn't it be easier on all parties if it were a static 24 hour clock. Have it reset at, say, 3am PST. The first time a character invokes after that reset time, they receive coins. If they go from one reset time to the next without invoking at all, they lose coins. That way it would be a little easier to track and be aware of, since the cutoff wouldn't change from day to day.

I do like the proposed idea of losing one coin per missed day rather than the whole shebang, though. That way it still rewards for logging in daily and punishes for missing a day, but the punishment wouldn't be nearly as harsh.

Indeed, this lesser decay rate would seem the best course.

mctankypants · August 2013

I agree with this as I've had numerous times where I've logged on with 6 coins and magically missed some window and lost them all. It's a continual kick to the junk whenever it happens.

abell39 · September 2013

Seriously, I just lost 5 coins on my DC that needs a ward, because family drama kept me off the computer for 2 hours too long. Can't it just take one coin? The drop to zero is frustrating.

ocampusmaximus · September 2013

Losing one coin per day would be in line with artifact concordance in 4e D&D as well.

I guess devs designed Celestial Coins to vanish like they do now because there's a chance we can get Coalescents from them, which means 1000 z less in Zen store purchases for those Wards, or Tarmalune bars from lockboxes. On the other hand, losing just one coin per day could become the new carrot.

yokihiro · September 2013

If at least it would be possible to invike via Gateway. I'm going to be on a business trip this week and won't have my gaming notebook with me. Thus my coins are gone, I could easily log in via my smartphone, but invoking there isn't possible.

greeniewolf0 · September 2013

zebular wrote: »

. . . . . .yeah, i also wouldn't mind just the simple change to a decay of 1 c.coin per 29 hours missed. This would be more in line with the fickle nature of the gods anyway, in my opinion of the gods and their favor and disdain. To loose them all at once though... To me that is a sheer "slap in the face" feeling.

yes please!!!!!!

cribstaxxx · September 2013

I will say that just the "chore" of logging in to each of my 6 characters, invoking, doing professions, picking up dailies, and refining AD takes like 20+ minutes. And that's if I don't have any auctions to check. But that said the celestial coins are an added bonus for consecutive active play so I doubt they'll change it =/

Perhaps if they increased Coalescent drop rate slightly less people would forget to invoke =P

beckylunatic · September 2013

The trick to managing invocation on multiple characters is to coordinate them. Discipline yourself so that first coin-generating invoke on anyone new happens at a time that fits your schedule, no matter when it comes available. All of mine should be eligible to receive their coins after I get home from work and not have them expire before I should be thinking about going to bed. That gives me a window of about 6pm-11pm in which to log in and do my thing on all characters, which I can skew a bit earlier or later depending on what else I might need to do on a given day. It doesn't take terribly long, and then I'm free to play as much or as little as I want on any of them.

They all get to 7 coins on Thursdays, so I can easily view if I've missed anyone in Gateway through their inventories. Also purposeful. Very easy to keep track.

If at all possible, don't let your necessary invocation window fall during or close to standard maintenance time.

All this still assumes that you have no family drama, illness, power outages, travel without a computer/internet (cash out beforehand and let it go, says me), work schedule with variable hours....

But it could help people struggling with juggling their coins otherwise....

lhachmacar · September 2013

I'd also be happy if they made the timers a true 24 hour window such as the timers used for Fury and Festival dailies. Really it's the "Exactly 24 hours plus 5" that's the issue. The window is just too small for people with variable time demands.

beckylunatic · September 2013

It's the variable time demands that's killer, as with someone who works anything but a 9-5er job.

It's not 24 hours exactly though. You can get coins 20 hours after the time you got coins. Too early and you won't get them. You have to invoke within 29 hours from the last time you invoked to keep them from going poof. This is why the game has inserted a prompt on quit/change character to remind you of the timer, and has mouseover tips letting you know how long you can wait as well. You do seem to be able to extend the poof timer by invoking constantly, but your time for coin eligibility is always going to be set from the last time coins were received. This means you can manipulate it earlier or later with a little time management, but you have to be careful to not get the timing so early or late that it won't work for you.

People have more trouble tracking when they're due to receive their coins, and I think adding that information to the mouseover tip would be helpful, just like a daily quest ("you can receive coins again in 19 hours and 55 minutes").

abell39 · September 2013

beckylunatic wrote: »

The trick to managing invocation on multiple characters is to coordinate them. Discipline yourself so that first coin-generating invoke on anyone new happens at a time that fits your schedule, no matter when it comes available. All of mine should be eligible to receive their coins after I get home from work and not have them expire before I should be thinking about going to bed. That gives me a window of about 6pm-11pm in which to log in and do my thing on all characters, which I can skew a bit earlier or later depending on what else I might need to do on a given day. It doesn't take terribly long, and then I'm free to play as much or as little as I want on any of them.

They all get to 7 coins on Thursdays, so I can easily view if I've missed anyone in Gateway through their inventories. Also purposeful. Very easy to keep track.

If at all possible, don't let your necessary invocation window fall during or close to standard maintenance time.

All this still assumes that you have no family drama, illness, power outages, travel without a computer/internet (cash out beforehand and let it go, says me), work schedule with variable hours....

But it could help people struggling with juggling their coins otherwise....

I do exactly the same thing, but when I can't get on the computer until 11:30 pm because of life stuff, I'm sunk and I'm out almost a week of coins. I thought over it more and realized I couldn't have missed it by more than 30 min based on when I invoked last on my DC, so it was that much more annoying.

Really I think the reason it resets to 0 is because that's probably easier to code, but it couldn't be that much harder to make it just subtract one without introducing potential for bugginess...would it? Just make sure the thing knows to stop at 0 so nobody ends up with negative coins....

Celestial Coins, please make them not decay or up the timer.

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