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Make controversial quests optional
ianthewizard2012
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,142 Arc User
Hi devs. In the Vellosk map, there is a quest named Stealing Thunder. It basically tells quest doers to use an orb to steal energy from The Greywolf Tribe. Being good-aligned, my wizard really has problems performing the steal act. For this reason, I was glad that you made the quest optional so my wizard can proceed the storyline without doing it.
However, after traveling to Pirate's Skyhold, there is the quest Every Last Drop, whose goal is to steal distilled water from lizardfolks. And the problem occurred -- it is a must-do quest. If we don't do it, we can't proceed and can't get all other quests in the map.
My wizard could skip the entire Pirate's Skyhold map and try other methods to level up and travel to the next map. But he recalled that he promised Sergeant Knox to help solving the issue in Pirate's Skyhold, so he thought he should not break his promise. And he also saw some people being caged by foes, so he couldn't bear to leave those people alone. Therefore he tried hard to skip the controversial quest and completed other quests. How did he do that? At every NPC spot, he patiently waited for and asked other adventurers if they were on a certain quests and could share them with him so he can do them. That took a lot of time. During the procedure, he also found a quest named Search and Seizure is controversial, too. It makes quest doers become bandits who ransack lizardfolks' hovels. He didn't do it of course.
So here is my thought. Devs, please be a good DM. Please take player characters' alignments into account. You want to put these quests into the game. That's okay. But please don't force everyone to do them. Make them optional. Without such quests being optional, my future characters surely will have to face the inconvenience and difficulty again.
Besides, there is a wizard power named Steal Time. As you may know, the name is really a problem to my wizard. He is unwilling to steal in any case. Could you rename it to "Collect Time" or something even less controversial? It being name by WotC doesn't mean you cannot rename it. If it can cause controversy, it's okay to rename it properly imho. Or you can discuss with WotC about this issue. In pnp, players have tons of powers to choose from so losing one power is not a problem. In this game, we only have a small number of powers to choose from so losing one power can be a big lose.
However, after traveling to Pirate's Skyhold, there is the quest Every Last Drop, whose goal is to steal distilled water from lizardfolks. And the problem occurred -- it is a must-do quest. If we don't do it, we can't proceed and can't get all other quests in the map.
My wizard could skip the entire Pirate's Skyhold map and try other methods to level up and travel to the next map. But he recalled that he promised Sergeant Knox to help solving the issue in Pirate's Skyhold, so he thought he should not break his promise. And he also saw some people being caged by foes, so he couldn't bear to leave those people alone. Therefore he tried hard to skip the controversial quest and completed other quests. How did he do that? At every NPC spot, he patiently waited for and asked other adventurers if they were on a certain quests and could share them with him so he can do them. That took a lot of time. During the procedure, he also found a quest named Search and Seizure is controversial, too. It makes quest doers become bandits who ransack lizardfolks' hovels. He didn't do it of course.
So here is my thought. Devs, please be a good DM. Please take player characters' alignments into account. You want to put these quests into the game. That's okay. But please don't force everyone to do them. Make them optional. Without such quests being optional, my future characters surely will have to face the inconvenience and difficulty again.
Besides, there is a wizard power named Steal Time. As you may know, the name is really a problem to my wizard. He is unwilling to steal in any case. Could you rename it to "Collect Time" or something even less controversial? It being name by WotC doesn't mean you cannot rename it. If it can cause controversy, it's okay to rename it properly imho. Or you can discuss with WotC about this issue. In pnp, players have tons of powers to choose from so losing one power is not a problem. In this game, we only have a small number of powers to choose from so losing one power can be a big lose.
Post edited by ianthewizard2012 on
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Comments
You don't want steal but you want to kill?
Sweetheart, you are killing things left and right from the start of the game and take what's not yours all the time.
Looting dead bodies is marauding.
You are in the wrong game, my lovely pumpkin.
Too bad we don't have a power for unlocking.
I had no problem doing that because they were malicious monsters and criminals. They would hurt others if I didn't eliminate them.
I am glad you brought it up though, because I really hope they implement alignments in the game sometime in the future.
since they are dead, its looting, not stealing
Ah well
-Desstzo
Yeah, it's odd if a D&D game doesn't have choices for alignment and deity.
We already have deity, and now we need alignment.
I think slaughtering thousands of people, animals, and even the lizard folk themselves, might be a bit more reason for moral qualms than stealing their water or ransacking their hovels.
The entire Pirate's Skyhold series is working with and for -pirates- that pretend to be regular people by doing regular work on top of being pirates when the opportunity presents itself.
If you promise to help a person claiming to be good, and you find they actually worship Cyric and are sending you to do -bad- things, a promise is a promise and you are doomed to eternal torment for failing to know everything ahead of time...oh, wait, no, you aren't.
You're Lawful Good, not Lawful Stupid...if you say "yeah, I'll go help" and find that you're actually helping Pirates (or assassins or whatever) do bad things that go against your alignment, you go back and say "did you know you were sending me to butcher children?" with a handy "smack the badguy" stick ready.
Since you can't actually attack the badguys for being badguys since they paid their membership fee and still pass as good guys until said membership is revoked (which actually -does- happen in a few quest arcs) then the most Lawful and Good you can do is refuse the mission arc in it's entirety, and do a different arc.
You didn't see prisoners in cages until -well- past murdering and stealing from people, so your Lawful Good character must need a refresher course in alignment.
Honestly, this sound much like a Troll Attempt rather than a serious complaint about "my alignment makes me object"...if you don't like an arc, don't do it.
If you "promised to do" and found you were -not- told all the details, then you either deal with it, and shift to a slightly less "lawful good" stance, or you -stick- to the -core- of your alignment, and refuse the -bogus- mission.
You were -not- told "we need you to go murder and steal from indigents" you were told "go help people that need help"...well, pirates don't need help to be pirates, let them do on their own.
"You can't accept this quest due to your alignment."
"You can't loot this due to your alignment"
"You can't join this group due to alignment differences."
"You can't use this mount due to your alignment (but thanks for your money)."
"To the lizardfolk, YOU are the evil entity trying to kill them, and they're just defending themselves. You feel overwhelming guilt and commit suicide due to your alignment. Good luck in the next life."
"The quest you accepted convinced you to do an evil act without you knowing it. You lose 3 levels and your alignment is now permanently changed (until you do something else)."
"You did something that went against your deity's teachings. You die instantly, just be sure to read all the lore before you play this game next time."
"You bought/sold an item for personal gain. That is a selfish act and goes against your alignment."
If alignment were implemented in the system, everyone would either be the the same alignment (probably chaotic neutral so they could gain power through any means), or you'd keep getting a message saying "Sorry, Dave, I can't let you do that"
I might consider skip the entire map when I created new characters in the future.
I saw them because I didn't know why I couldn't get new quests and was wandering around trying to find available quests.
It's not.
Also your character is not good aligned, because the game doesn't have alignments.
So it's all just roleplaying.
..You could roleplay that your character had short-term amnesia after you complete that quest, and forget that he ever done it, so his conscious is clear..
Also keep in mind EVERY quest in the game past the tutorial is optional. Several friends of mine have actually leveled to 60 - having not completed a single quest in the game. (All pvp/monster kills)
So yea you can skip that. Knox will also grant you further quests in the story line - they aren't tied to progression - but rather your character level. So get some xp murdering those lizard folks you don't wanna steal from, then go to the next questarea.
-Epic Dread Vault Crushed.
Characters (Dragon): Axer (60 Guardian, Leader of Crush It!), Controller (60 Wizard), Warlocker (60 Warlock)
I can define it for my character.
I like RP, but this is just not the game for it - in general there is better RP in single-player games ... I have pretty high hopes in that respect for "Project: Eternity", which is scheduled to be released next year, but even games like BG, BG2, NWN and NWN2 were better in that respect than Neverwinter (Online). RP is simply not what the game is about. If you want to RP, fine, but it is all just in your head - the game does not support it as such.
And thanks for the info of "Project: Eternity". Is it a D&D game?
At the first NPC spot, one of Company Yargo crew said lizardfolks had killed some of their people. Lizardfolks could choose to not showing friendliness to strangers and ignore strangers if they didn't want to be friendly, but they killed strangers. That really went too far.
Is there an evidence that Company Yargo steal resources from the land? And imo the land is not belong to lizardfolks. Lizardfolks don't own the land.
Are you sure he didn't lie to you? Where is the evidence about what he was saying?
Funny they said the same things at the times of General Custer about the Native Americans and those that were seizing the lands were they lived
By your own reasoning the lizard folk are bad because you are invading their land and slaughtering them wholesale? So when someone struts aggressively into your backyard towards your kids with a drawn sword you... don't attack them?
To them.. you are the bad guy and they are good guy. To you obviously they are bad guys and you're the good guy.
Also as far as stealing goes, is it evil to steal a sword from a foe so he cannot kill others? Is it evil to steal and destroy a bomb/spell book/poison so it doesn't kill hundreds? Most good, even lawful good would agree that those would be considered 'good' acts.
You are stealing the power... so it cannot be used to kill others... seems on the up and up to me.
Creatures who automatically attack strangers they see are fiendish and malicious imo anyway.
For the examples you mentioned, I wouldn't use the word "steal" to name the act. I would use "destroy" or "sequester".
So it's the power namer's problem. The namer let spellcasters steal and become stealers.
The lizard folk were depicted as trapping and attacking those that came to the island. That could be seen as malicious and hurting others. In any case, by the time you got there, you had already slaughtered countless beings when the morality of the actions weren't always crystal clear.
Also, as far as selecting between multiple quest path options, or the game not being role-play friendly... choosing between multiple quest paths isn't role-playing, and a game being role-play friendly has nothing to do with such options.
Role-playing is all about taking on a role and then acting it out, which generally requires multiple players so that character interaction and story development can take place. The game can't do that for you. They can help by providing guild formation and such, and other features that support character interaction, but role-playing is ultimately in the hands of the players.