I am only level 47 but I am curious about how you get such high uptime with stealth. Is it because my damage is not yet that high that I am not seeing the returns in lowering the cooldown of my stealth? My typical perfect scenario goes as follows:
Total Stealth uptime (10 seconds out of 20 seconds)
At this point shadow strike is up and the cycle repeats. I know eventually I will get another free stealth due to using dailies but at this point I have no idea how you get that kind of upkeep. Please let me know so that I know what to expect at higher levels, thanks!
What i do is i do the first 2 swings of DF before going stealth then right before the flury portion of it i hit tab. Then i can do 2 DFs then i Hit Bait and switch BEFORE stealth runs out which fills the stealth bar. Then you use Shadow strike to go back in to stealth and normaly at this point you should be able to use Lurkers to go stealth again.
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spc4343Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 3Arc User
What i do is i do the first 2 swings of DF before going stealth then right before the flury portion of it i hit tab. Then i can do 2 DFs then i Hit Bait and switch BEFORE stealth runs out which fills the stealth bar. Then you use Shadow strike to go back in to stealth and normaly at this point you should be able to use Lurkers to go stealth again.
Thanks! Is it really worth taking Bait and Switch over other encounters for dungeons? I would think that at 60 I would want to run Wicked/Lashing/Shadow Strike or instead of Wicked a form of AOE for trash.
0
cichardMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Thanks! Is it really worth taking Bait and Switch over other encounters for dungeons? I would think that at 60 I would want to run Wicked/Lashing/Shadow Strike or instead of Wicked a form of AOE for trash.
ya bait and switch builds ap also increases your stealth time... the longer in stealth the more damage you do.. basically when i use Bait in switch in the middle of the mobs while stealthed i almost instantly get full ap
This looks like one of the basic one trick pony builds that I don't care for.. If you are with a group which I usually am and not solo.. I prefer to run with..
Courage Breaker - It's basically a kill instantly with an assist train. The movement speed debuff is a root, and the DMG reduction is nice.
Bait and Switch
Shadow Strike
Lashing Blade/Dazing Strike/Deft Strike
I tend to stay away from the cookie cutter, and with my current tree build I can stay in stealth for almost the WHOLE entire match (Fights). I am rarely seen out of stealth if i'm stunned or something, but this barely happens.
Add DMG while stealthed and combat advantage, and you are a wrecking tree.
It's against the Norm, and I plan on posting vid's of my matches and my build very soon. Most likely close to the end of Beta.
Edit : Saw something else
Duelist's Flurry is amazing in PvP with groups. GWF Knocks down.. You hit your bleeds, and follow up with a stealth Lashing blade. It's death for that target.
Against good pre-mades, your not going to hit your execution against primary targets.. Especially against a group like mine. You need to make the target immobilized before afflicting enough burst.
What i do is i do the first 2 swings of DF before going stealth then right before the flury portion of it i hit tab. Then i can do 2 DFs then i Hit Bait and switch BEFORE stealth runs out which fills the stealth bar. Then you use Shadow strike to go back in to stealth and normaly at this point you should be able to use Lurkers to go stealth again.
I also didn't see this post.. We seem to run a similar build. I use a different rotation, but ti's effective none the less.
Thanks! Is it really worth taking Bait and Switch over other encounters for dungeons? I would think that at 60 I would want to run Wicked/Lashing/Shadow Strike or instead of Wicked a form of AOE for trash.
Bait and Switch is all you need, and is one of the reasons why tanks are not needed. I pop mine next to the healer when he gets aggro, and it pulls instantly.
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spc4343Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited May 2013
Thanks for all the advice! This now makes a little more sense. I will have to experiment further.
Thanks for this guide, I found it to be very informative and easy to read. I'm curious about one thing however. I'm not at home so I can't check my character but if I made a halfling should i delete and remake? I'm only level 10 and I want to make the best PVP rogue possible. From a min/max standpoint are human rogues the best for PVP?
I don't agree with you.
You will dodge, loose at least 2-3 seconds. You will notice.. oh wait the boss uses AOe again. You will dodge.. Loose 2-3 seconds. sure you could dodge back, but then on the next aoe you have to walk away since you are out of stamina and don't have mobility.
I don't know where you get your dps from but I get my DPS from my left mouse button and when Itc is on I can still hold my left mouse button and I don't care if I stand in red circles because I get zero damage.
Most of DPS abilitys on rogue have a cast animation during which you can't autoattack and if you calculate that into the long cooldowns you will notice that your DPS is not coming from your abilitys but your left mouse button. The only good DPS abilitys are Lashing blade as its almost instant and you get your stealth crit and critseverityboosts and secondly shadowstrike to get more stealth uptime for critseverity.
I have yet to see rogues out DPSing me. I have been doing T1 runs without healer and Tank and T2 Runs without a Tank.
And I have seen a lot of rogues die next to me on stuff they could have avoided with utility instead of Damage abilitys. And I can count a lot of times where I saved the group just by being to able to rez where others try to rez and fail because they can't dodge during that time.
Sure on T1 runs are not a problem with a normal Group and u can just pick whatever ability I like. I always adjust my setup to the groups abilitys and not just take the most DPS I can get because just DPS does not win a fight and even if I just take all utility I am always faaaaaaaar ahead in DPS even when I take 3x utlity encounters. I outdpsed rogues with full epic when I just startet doing lvl60 t1 with blue/green gear so I gues I can't be that wrong with what I am doing.
The above is just my opinion/experience. I don't count on others doing the same as I do, just trying to share experience
I am 100% agree with you. Deft strike and Itc is always on my slot in T2 runs especially in those heavily aoe one(SP and cavern). This guide value them low in pve just make me laugh.
For trash I've been using Blitz/Path of Blades/Lashing and for bosses I've been using Bait/ItC/Lashing. Bait and ItC are amazing for AP gen, survivability and uptime, as many of the posts in this thread have noted.
I really want to integrate shadowstrike into my build because stealth = good. I could drop Blitz easily enough for it on trash. I could fire and forget path, and then concentrate on stealth murdering larger HP mobs, but I don't know what to do about my boss set up. I can't imagine dropping Bait or ItC after making the switch and dropping lashing seems fundamentally wrong... I need to try some set ups, I think. Any advice?
So, i'm not sure where the Menzoberanzan Renegade is. All I could find was choosing the Wood Elf race and then going with "Underdark Exile" background choice. Is that what you meant, or did something get changed?
Hey Nalfen, I remember you from Tera so I trust that you know what youre doing here.
If you are still monitoring this thread, could you(or anybody else) point me in the right direction of picking powers,feats,paragon while leveling?
Also, this toon was my very first toon in neverwinter, so I didnt know what I was doing. Picked the control wizard companion. Should I spring for the cleric, or will it make very little difference at this point. It really seems that unless you have one of the better companions to level to 30, the cleric is go to for anyone which sucks.
Thank you for the stats/definitions/etc. I've been having a hard time finding out which things did what. This is great, so honestly, thank you for the time and effort that went it to the definitions and game play mechanics.
That being said...
What moron developer decided that it would be good to make a rouge class (thief for original PnP DnD players) be ... Let me start over...These are your picks (not good or bad, just how I interpret what you listed):
1) Human, extra feats, always good, always free
2) Drow (PTW), very good class, hard to level, tough as nails but can't really see in full daylight
3) Half-orc, we'll get to this one....
4) halfling always a fun play, never really serious, but dang their quick and hard to see.
Back to what I had to say: what moron developer (or more likely management/marketing team) decided that half-orc made a good "RPG" rogue? Have you ever had your pockets picked successfully by a 12' tall giant? NO? That's because they're obvious when present, and their hand probably wouldn't fit in your back pocket very well.
RPG, just to be clear here is ROLL-PLAYING GAME, not whack-a-mole. So sneaking into Neverwinter in the middle of the day with an elder red dragon (without any buffs/magical ability enabled) clearly would not go unnoticed. And in such a role, the freaking point of a rogue is non-frontal assault, if at all. it is NOT (repeat NOT) how many times you can stab your opponent per second, nor doing massing headwound trama. Because of the very near little or no armor (armour for UK), they can move with little or no movement penalty, quickly and silently, that is their armor. They just can't sustain a brawl (solo). The "sneak attack" feature is something like:
1) scouting the area ahead of time (stealth and cunning),
2) learning the environment (tactician)
3) watching and learning your enemy (watching from the shadows)
4) learning the needed and necessary exploit (every time enemy shifts left quickly, the armor separates exposing the heart)
5) Creating a diversion (or bring a bunch of half-orc thugs)
6) Execute all the above it one quick/deadly (nearly unavoidable) attack
7) Dead enemy (or group if properly planned and executed)
So what part of Dungeons and Dragons RGP wasn't clear? As a rogue, I have no skill to "disarm traps in battle", or "pick lock" or heist astral diamonds from really dumb (but wealthy) orcs/mages/politicians(I know, redundant redundancy). Why not just make the rogue throw rocks really really (really) fast OR launch mortar and bazooka fire? Better yet, maybe a back from the future sneak attack where he runs you over with a DeLorean, but only once he reaches 88 mph.
Seriously, we might as well be playing "Barbie and Ken go on 'Barbie' Jerry Spring show" and Barbie gets super glare at you power? Really?
Now that I am tired, and done with my rant...everyone stop whining because they party tr isn't sm with total dps and only weakness being kryptonite. Some of use are trying to make the best of an RPG(ish) game without PTW or 'here let me speck for Pvx.' I know...I am a dying breed.
Anyway...thanks for the info/guide Nalfen. Didn't mean to "rant steal" your thread, and I doubt anyone will care anyway, and hopefully some of it was funny. It's just irritating that "RPG" seems to now mean "real problem getting it", or that people whine because some of us don't spend our only waking hours "perfect building" a character. For us "non-respec" addicted characters, we just take stuff and have fun, while trying to help the situation as best we know. Hey, not even every president can be a winner...;)
Y as soon as I saw that Orc is the best TR race and Halfling best GF race I was facepalming till near death. Just plain stupid.
Carnage TR Dragon shard - retired? hell yea it's retired along with Nevewinter
Seze - Rogue - Necropolis - RIFT
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fimconteMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
@carvwa, You want to play a RPG, don't play a MMO.
Or if you do, find a guild/other players who RP.
As for Half-Orcs, they get +2str+2dex because they are all muscle, lean mean killing machines in 4th edition. And since NW is based on 4th Ed, they lifted the racial stats from there.
Even in 3rd Ed they got +str. -cha/-int (ugly/stupid), no one ever said they had low dex.
Now if you want to stereotype all Half-Orcs as dumb barbarians, that's your prerogative.
But personally I can see how a Orc-Human hybrid could have all the benefits from both races (High Physical abilities from Orc, avg. intelligence/looks from Human).
And in 3rd Edition there was a Half-Orc Infiltrator template in the MM, and half-orcs have been portrayed as roguish outcasts long before that.
I do think that it might've been better if Half-Orcs would've gotten +2str/+2con in 4th Ed., but you have to take that up with WotC, not Cryptic.
Fans Glory to the Gladiators,
Gods Glory to the Heroes.
I'm curious, what do you recommend for Ability Score increase? I'm a human with 19 STR, 17 DEX, and 13 CHA.
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fimconteMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
Str+Dex.
Cha is nice, but it's bugged and doesn't give +companion bonus stats and you can't always have Combat Advantage.
The deflection bonus is nice for PvP though.
Fans Glory to the Gladiators,
Gods Glory to the Heroes.
hello everyone,i just wanted to ask you which one is most important for a dagger?power or damage point?i'm using iceshard dagger on my main hand also i have battlefield skulker's sleight dagger it has more damage point but it has less power point than iceshard.i dont know which one should i use.if u can help me i'll be glad thanks
Based on preference for a bit of hp (lots of things seem to hit for right around 21000 if you fail dodge), and experience hitting on the dummy, yes, it's better.
Thanks for posting your TR guide, I have found it really helpful as I am levelling and it has helped me avoid some silly mistakes.
What I could really do with is a guide to the basic game mechanics - for example exactly what critical strike and critical severity mean; Armour and armour class, Recovery, Regeneration, all that stuff. This is my first MMORPG and I'm finding it really hard to understand how all these things work together. Are you aware of a guide to all that stuff?
Hi, I have a (simple?) question. I have to drop one of these two and they are both great, so I dont know which one to choose. CUNNING STALKER or UNDERHANDED TACTICS.I mostly play PVE and I am not in stealth that much to be honest. Though is that 20% AP gain like 20% from that 18% (AP that I gain with my recovery) or is it +20% so together it is 38%? Also how imortan is that 20% combat advantage?
Lurker's Assault - PvE 3, PvP 3
This lets you keep stealth for a long time and gives you 60% damage bonus to boot, need i say more?
Good - Great damage boost, good utility 10 secs of stealth.
Bad - World turns black and white making AoE areas very hard to see; use with caution.
Heres something i Noticed lol...actually during Lurker's assault.. If your Video Setting is all Set to really low, the screen doesnt go Black and White. it just darkens a bit.. and still you can see enemy red attacks clearer actually
Comments
What i do is i do the first 2 swings of DF before going stealth then right before the flury portion of it i hit tab. Then i can do 2 DFs then i Hit Bait and switch BEFORE stealth runs out which fills the stealth bar. Then you use Shadow strike to go back in to stealth and normaly at this point you should be able to use Lurkers to go stealth again.
Thanks! Is it really worth taking Bait and Switch over other encounters for dungeons? I would think that at 60 I would want to run Wicked/Lashing/Shadow Strike or instead of Wicked a form of AOE for trash.
Courage Breaker - It's basically a kill instantly with an assist train. The movement speed debuff is a root, and the DMG reduction is nice.
Bait and Switch
Shadow Strike
Lashing Blade/Dazing Strike/Deft Strike
I tend to stay away from the cookie cutter, and with my current tree build I can stay in stealth for almost the WHOLE entire match (Fights). I am rarely seen out of stealth if i'm stunned or something, but this barely happens.
Add DMG while stealthed and combat advantage, and you are a wrecking tree.
It's against the Norm, and I plan on posting vid's of my matches and my build very soon. Most likely close to the end of Beta.
Edit : Saw something else
Duelist's Flurry is amazing in PvP with groups. GWF Knocks down.. You hit your bleeds, and follow up with a stealth Lashing blade. It's death for that target.
Against good pre-mades, your not going to hit your execution against primary targets.. Especially against a group like mine. You need to make the target immobilized before afflicting enough burst.
I also didn't see this post.. We seem to run a similar build. I use a different rotation, but ti's effective none the less.
Bait and Switch is all you need, and is one of the reasons why tanks are not needed. I pop mine next to the healer when he gets aggro, and it pulls instantly.
I am 100% agree with you. Deft strike and Itc is always on my slot in T2 runs especially in those heavily aoe one(SP and cavern). This guide value them low in pve just make me laugh.
I really want to integrate shadowstrike into my build because stealth = good. I could drop Blitz easily enough for it on trash. I could fire and forget path, and then concentrate on stealth murdering larger HP mobs, but I don't know what to do about my boss set up. I can't imagine dropping Bait or ItC after making the switch and dropping lashing seems fundamentally wrong... I need to try some set ups, I think. Any advice?
Looking forward to the updates (for recent balancing patch).
you either have to be a 200$ founder or come from the future to play that
If you are still monitoring this thread, could you(or anybody else) point me in the right direction of picking powers,feats,paragon while leveling?
Also, this toon was my very first toon in neverwinter, so I didnt know what I was doing. Picked the control wizard companion. Should I spring for the cleric, or will it make very little difference at this point. It really seems that unless you have one of the better companions to level to 30, the cleric is go to for anyone which sucks.
Thank you for the stats/definitions/etc. I've been having a hard time finding out which things did what. This is great, so honestly, thank you for the time and effort that went it to the definitions and game play mechanics.
That being said...
What moron developer decided that it would be good to make a rouge class (thief for original PnP DnD players) be ... Let me start over...These are your picks (not good or bad, just how I interpret what you listed):
1) Human, extra feats, always good, always free
2) Drow (PTW), very good class, hard to level, tough as nails but can't really see in full daylight
3) Half-orc, we'll get to this one....
4) halfling always a fun play, never really serious, but dang their quick and hard to see.
Back to what I had to say: what moron developer (or more likely management/marketing team) decided that half-orc made a good "RPG" rogue? Have you ever had your pockets picked successfully by a 12' tall giant? NO? That's because they're obvious when present, and their hand probably wouldn't fit in your back pocket very well.
RPG, just to be clear here is ROLL-PLAYING GAME, not whack-a-mole. So sneaking into Neverwinter in the middle of the day with an elder red dragon (without any buffs/magical ability enabled) clearly would not go unnoticed. And in such a role, the freaking point of a rogue is non-frontal assault, if at all. it is NOT (repeat NOT) how many times you can stab your opponent per second, nor doing massing headwound trama. Because of the very near little or no armor (armour for UK), they can move with little or no movement penalty, quickly and silently, that is their armor. They just can't sustain a brawl (solo). The "sneak attack" feature is something like:
1) scouting the area ahead of time (stealth and cunning),
2) learning the environment (tactician)
3) watching and learning your enemy (watching from the shadows)
4) learning the needed and necessary exploit (every time enemy shifts left quickly, the armor separates exposing the heart)
5) Creating a diversion (or bring a bunch of half-orc thugs)
6) Execute all the above it one quick/deadly (nearly unavoidable) attack
7) Dead enemy (or group if properly planned and executed)
So what part of Dungeons and Dragons RGP wasn't clear? As a rogue, I have no skill to "disarm traps in battle", or "pick lock" or heist astral diamonds from really dumb (but wealthy) orcs/mages/politicians(I know, redundant redundancy). Why not just make the rogue throw rocks really really (really) fast OR launch mortar and bazooka fire? Better yet, maybe a back from the future sneak attack where he runs you over with a DeLorean, but only once he reaches 88 mph.
Seriously, we might as well be playing "Barbie and Ken go on 'Barbie' Jerry Spring show" and Barbie gets super glare at you power? Really?
Now that I am tired, and done with my rant...everyone stop whining because they party tr isn't sm with total dps and only weakness being kryptonite. Some of use are trying to make the best of an RPG(ish) game without PTW or 'here let me speck for Pvx.' I know...I am a dying breed.
Anyway...thanks for the info/guide Nalfen. Didn't mean to "rant steal" your thread, and I doubt anyone will care anyway, and hopefully some of it was funny. It's just irritating that "RPG" seems to now mean "real problem getting it", or that people whine because some of us don't spend our only waking hours "perfect building" a character. For us "non-respec" addicted characters, we just take stuff and have fun, while trying to help the situation as best we know. Hey, not even every president can be a winner...;)
- Tiduss -
(OoS)
Seze - Rogue - Necropolis -
Or if you do, find a guild/other players who RP.
As for Half-Orcs, they get +2str+2dex because they are all muscle, lean mean killing machines in 4th edition. And since NW is based on 4th Ed, they lifted the racial stats from there.
Even in 3rd Ed they got +str. -cha/-int (ugly/stupid), no one ever said they had low dex.
Now if you want to stereotype all Half-Orcs as dumb barbarians, that's your prerogative.
But personally I can see how a Orc-Human hybrid could have all the benefits from both races (High Physical abilities from Orc, avg. intelligence/looks from Human).
And in 3rd Edition there was a Half-Orc Infiltrator template in the MM, and half-orcs have been portrayed as roguish outcasts long before that.
I do think that it might've been better if Half-Orcs would've gotten +2str/+2con in 4th Ed., but you have to take that up with WotC, not Cryptic.
Gods Glory to the Heroes.
TR:Anirul Corrino@Fimconte
GF:Irulan Corrino@Fimconte
Cha is nice, but it's bugged and doesn't give +companion bonus stats and you can't always have Combat Advantage.
The deflection bonus is nice for PvP though.
Gods Glory to the Heroes.
TR:Anirul Corrino@Fimconte
GF:Irulan Corrino@Fimconte
so unless dagger A has 25 power for each 1 damage that dagger B has more then A, B is better
so battlefield skulker's is better than iceshard right?
What I could really do with is a guide to the basic game mechanics - for example exactly what critical strike and critical severity mean; Armour and armour class, Recovery, Regeneration, all that stuff. This is my first MMORPG and I'm finding it really hard to understand how all these things work together. Are you aware of a guide to all that stuff?
Which one would you drop and why?
Heres something i Noticed lol...actually during Lurker's assault.. If your Video Setting is all Set to really low, the screen doesnt go Black and White. it just darkens a bit.. and still you can see enemy red attacks clearer actually