Um, you CAN see them when they get close. That's when you dodge, knock em back, throw a dot on them to eat stealth, etc.
You need split second reaction to pull that off successfully and no lag, besides rouges dodge still functions perfectly in stealth. As it is right now, you dodging the incoming attack depends not on youre awesome skills but pure luck and that is pure nonsense.
You need split second reaction to pull that off successfully and no lag, besides rouges dodge still functions perfectly in stealth. As it is right now, you dodging the incoming attack depends not on youre awesome skills but pure luck and that is pure nonsense.
Funny, when my friend start playing GF and was capping the point, i was able to tell him that he has TR on his side, before he even got close. He still managed to put shield up and block incoming lashing. Can you tell me how person who`s not playing could predict TR attack early enough to even give warning? If not, the post ya wrote may end up "pure nonsense" ya know.
Funny, when my friend start playing GWF and was capping the point, i was able to tell him that he has TR on his side, before he even got close. He still managed to put shield up and block incoming lashing. Can you tell me how person who`s not playing could predict TR attack early enough to even give warning? If not, the post ya wrote may end up "pure nonsense" ya know.
wut (10 wuts)
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
What, you mean you don't think an Encounter ability should be able to one shot you? That's silly!
What, you mean you don't think a spammable Tab ability should be able to allow you to tank 4 people at the same time, give you full CC immunity, and temporary HP? That's silly!
Oh, and I'd like you to show me how that Encounter (on a 20+ second cooldown) can 1-shot people without using a Daily.
- I'm sure the GF would take diminishing shield meter with each attack if they were allowed to attack while simultaneously blocking and in doing so his crit severity was increased by 25% among other nifty feats, oh and if he was untargetable from range.
- give the CW the ability to be untargetable from range for a period of time while they free cast at wills and I'm sure they'd be down for these added CD's.
- give the gwf's the ability to be untargetable from range and range at will... I'm sure some would be down for it.
If you're going to make these comparisons there needs to be some sort of even keel. To which there is none in regards to stealth.
- GF - So what if you can target them from range? They can block everything, including daily. Then when they realize that your encounters on cd, they start sending you to the air, and you are pretty much done for.
- GWF - You can hang them up in the air in 1 sec. They pop unstoppable. Hey, you are still able to target them but what you can do to them since they immune to your cc plus temporary defense, hp, refection, etc. all in one package.
- CW - Who shots first or with soulforge enchantment will win.
What proof do you have that these nerfs were brought on solely due to people crying and that the developers did absolutely no research or data mining to determine something needed to be done?
Funny, when my friend start playing GWF and was capping the point, i was able to tell him that he has TR on his side, before he even got close. He still managed to put shield up and block incoming lashing. Can you tell me how person who`s not playing could predict TR attack early enough to even give warning? If not, the post ya wrote may end up "pure nonsense" ya know.
Youre friend has a sixth sense and he should not be wasting it on video games. As for the rest of us mere mortals its still about luck and no lagging, but mostly its luck tho. I could tell you stories how i managed to land single target skills on stealth TRs but unlike some i know it was not me being skillful it was me striking the lucky hit. P.s. rouges can still dodge in stealth, so arguing perma stealth is not broken, is kind of pointless.
Youre friend has a sixth sense and he should not be wasting it on video games. As for the rest of us mere mortals its still about luck and no lagging, but mostly its luck tho. I could tell you stories how i managed to land single target skills on stealth TRs but unlike some i know it was not me being skillful it was me striking the lucky hit. P.s. rouges can still dodge in stealth, so arguing perma stealth is not broken, is kind of pointless.
GWF used Shield? O_O
heres how you can tell if TR on stealth is near (stealth sound)you know that TR is nearby but you dont know where unless they attack and you have reflect (or you point your mouse somewhere and it turns red)
GWF used Shield? O_O
heres how you can tell if TR on stealth is near (stealth sound)you know that TR is nearby but you dont know where unless they attack and you have reflect (or you point your mouse somewhere and it turns red)
Sorry my fail, GF ofc.
And yeah there are multiple things that pinpoint that TR is goin for you.
1. If you cap the point, you see the bar of cap stop. Meaning, someone is in circle.
2. If ya play with good headset, you can hear some soudns (like going into stealth, or LA sound. It`s a bit faster than animation.)
3. In many places the TR go into stealth a bit away from target. Usually they are spottable before they dissapear. I fooled them many times by just standing still with hand on dodge button ;P So be aware of ya surrounding. If ya ain`t good at that, just move randomly around.
4. Ways mentioned above and in other posts.
PS: Never checked that way with mouse aim over stealthed TR so i can`t confirm that . Anyway i solo cap a lot with mine and i very rarely fail to notice TR coming at me.
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nukeyooBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
- GF - So what if you can target them from range? They can block everything, including daily. Then when they realize that your encounters on cd, they start sending you to the air, and you are pretty much done for.
- GWF - You can hang them up in the air in 1 sec. They pop unstoppable. Hey, you are still able to target them but what you can do to them since they immune to your cc plus temporary defense, hp, refection, etc. all in one package.
- CW - Who shots first or with soulforge enchantment will win.
Only simple logic and rational thinking. Something the majority of TR's that have gotten so use to the combat advantages that are allotted to them in game lack. Insulting someone such as the developers because you don't agree with them is prime example of irrationality. Here's where you can go in depth about how all the other classes and their combat advantages. Then I simply state, yes there are other classes such as GWF and perhaps GF that need to be looked at extensively also in terms of tweaking some of their abilities. I am sure they're under the microscope also. By your logic, if you really want the other classes to be nerfed also get all your friends together and make enough QQ threads so the developers that do no research or data mining will swing the nerfbat in their direction also.
Here's where you can go in depth about how all the other classes and their combat advantages.
Right, every class has its own combat advantage. Rogues' stealth has it unique strength, aka unseen from a certain distance. It also has weaknesses that other class can use to take advantage of them, such as stealth meter gets reduced in combat, stealth can be seen through within melee range, or going stealth make a unique sound that you can hear from far away, etc.
There are so many threads that discuss how to against stealth. Thus, stealth is no longer a myth. Many people with all classes, including CWs, found effective ways to win over stealth rogues.
However, there are 3 types of people who keep crying over stealth rogues. The first one are under-gear new lvl 60 getting face-rolled by geared rogues. The second one are those refuse to take advises from others thinking that people must be changed for their flavor. The last one is "troll" who just want to get people to their nerves for fun.
By your logic, if you really want the other classes to be nerfed also get all your friends together and make enough QQ threads so the developers that do no research or data mining will swing the nerfbat in their direction also.
I did not say that your assumption is wrong. Actually, it makes sense.
However, either you or me has the dev's data. Any assumption even with the best logic could be wrong without hard evidence or statistics. The devs will not show us their data anyway so all of us could only assume things based on what has been happening on the forum. And according to the nerf history, I could only say it seems to be the nerfbat is pretty much based on the vocal on the forum about PvP.
GWF used Shield? O_O
heres how you can tell if TR on stealth is near (stealth sound)you know that TR is nearby but you dont know where unless they attack and you have reflect (or you point your mouse somewhere and it turns red)
Sorry my fail, GF ofc.
And yeah there are multiple things that pinpoint that TR is goin for you.
1. If you cap the point, you see the bar of cap stop. Meaning, someone is in circle.
2. If ya play with good headset, you can hear some soudns (like going into stealth, or LA sound. It`s a bit faster than animation.)
3. In many places the TR go into stealth a bit away from target. Usually they are spottable before they dissapear. I fooled them many times by just standing still with hand on dodge button ;P So be aware of ya surrounding. If ya ain`t good at that, just move randomly around.
4. Ways mentioned above and in other posts.
You two are totally missing the point i am trying to make. It dose not take an Einstein to figure out when youre nod is turning red and you see no one that there is TR, or when daggers are flying from no where. Most TRs have mastered the dodge right after they go in to stealth, but this is besides the point since if you see them incoming its about 50/50 if you strike or not, which is fair. The unfair part begins when they do enter stealth and that is when you start to claim its all about my great skills and spot on timing to dodge the incoming attacks, which its not.
Most TRs that are not brain dead will make you waste the dodges, by ether running close to you or plain throwing daggers. I am not a mind reader like you seem to be, i cant guess when they will strike, i just pray when i dodge that it was not wasted and i actually dodged something. It would have been alright if it was about 50% of the time spent fighting with TRs when you are forced to rely on luck but stealth TRs are so beyond broken that you spend literally 80% of the time guessing. I had a stealth TR the other day who finally got uncloaked, I managed to land two skills on him. In total it took about 5-8 seconds and he was back in to stealth mode, obviously i had my dodge bar wasted from previous loop. Now tell me that is not broken. I know nothing that i say will convince stealth TRs to agree with me. Ether way the incoming nerf was long overdue, i just hope it wont gimp PvE too much but since stealth speck is strictly PvP spec i am not too worried.
tab skill logic
it should be limited
GF = Guard but cant dodge / can knock/hit them from back
GFs guard meter is balance cant have unli guard
DC = ...
CW = 1 skill
heres the 2 OP tab skill
GWF = CC immune / sure deflect / High temporary HP / Heal 5% with feat and if youre using glory set +10% heal
theres no way to recover/increase unstop meter while using it (but its still OP bec of high temporary hp and sure deflect)
TR = has dodge and stealth (theyre the master of trick so its ok)
but stealth is broken can have unli stealth and have lots of daily / atwill / paragon feat to instant replenish it
add Lurkers Assault and watch them melt other classes even GFs
tab skill logic
it should be limited
GF = Guard but cant dodge / can knock/hit them from back
GFs guard meter is balance cant have unli guard
DC = ...
CW = 1 skill
heres the 2 OP tab skill
GWF = CC immune / sure deflect / High temporary HP / Heal 5% with feat and if youre using glory set +10% heal
theres no way to recover/increase unstop meter while using it (but its still OP bec of high temporary hp and sure deflect)
TR = has dodge and stealth (theyre the master of trick so its ok)
but stealth is broken can have unli stealth and have lots of daily / atwill / paragon feat to instant replenish it
add Lurkers Assault and watch them melt other classes even GFs
why nerf/balance stealth?
Without 7 Tene's perma-stealth rogue's do very little damage, not mention with upcoming CoS nerf it will be almost unused in PvP.
GF: block 100% of incoming damage AND CC including daily's while also building extremely fast AP to crush your next victim... GF's shift is amazing to say the least.
CW: Players only get 3 powers, to get a 4th encounter (especially on a character with so much CC) and to have it empowered is really awesome! I PvP on my CW a decent amount and granted they aren't the best 1v1, but when you are supporting your team from the back you can pump out amazing dmg/cc. Not to mention ray of frost is about the only way to kill GF.
Also I believe GWF just gets a flat 50% damage reduction from everything, although I guess that would be the same as 100% deflect
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
0
t3hwh173f0xMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
tab skill logic
it should be limited
GF = Guard but cant dodge / can knock/hit them from back
GFs guard meter is balance cant have unli guard
DC = ...
CW = 1 skill
heres the 2 OP tab skill
GWF = CC immune / sure deflect / High temporary HP / Heal 5% with feat and if youre using glory set +10% heal
theres no way to recover/increase unstop meter while using it (but its still OP bec of high temporary hp and sure deflect)
TR = has dodge and stealth (theyre the master of trick so its ok)
but stealth is broken can have unli stealth and have lots of daily / atwill / paragon feat to instant replenish it
add Lurkers Assault and watch them melt other classes even GFs
why nerf/balance stealth?
The thing you seem to not be realizing here is that the GF doesn't have unlimited block meter and the GWF doesn't have unlimited unstoppable meter. The only thing that needs a fix on the TR is their ability to have unlimited stealth meter. Everything else is fine, but if they can have unlimited stealth then the GWFs should be able to have unlimited unstoppable, the GFs should have unlimited guard meter and the DCs should have unlimited divinity pips.
Furthermore Unstoppable is not OP because the damage mitigation and the temp hitpoints are based on how full the unstoppable meter is and it only fills up from you taking damage (destroyer's purpose speeds this up a bit, but if you have destroyer's purpose you know what I mean when I say it only fills up from taking damage). You can activate the unstoppable meter at 50% and it will buff you only slightly and give very little temp hitpoints and it will wear off faster than you can say 'Sharandar'. In order to take the amount of damage one needs to take to proc the 50% damage mitigation and max temp hit points, that GWF needs to lose about 30% of their max hp. If a TR and a GWF have equal gear score and go 1v1, the GWF's unstoppable will never out regen+mitigate the dps of the TR.
Now lets just take a look at stealth. When you are in stealth you can throw daggers from a distance where no one can see/target/attack you, thus have the ability to kill an enemy without them knowing where you even are. Nevermind the GWF's 50% damage mitigation once he's taken 30% of his max hp in damage, you have 100% damage mitigation from the get-go without having to take any damage. On top of that, the GWF can only proc his unstoppable once in a while, as he must build the meter again. With the current perma-stealth going on, the rogue can have stealth up 100% of the time. So you have 100% damage mitigation 100% of the time and out dps everyone on the field. I'm sorry if that doesn't sound broken to you, but it sure does sound broken to anyone who isn't a perma-stealth TR.
Don't get me wrong, the TR dps is not the problem. The only problem is perma-stealth which they can fix by simply making Bait and Switch replenish only 50% of your stealth meter and Shadowstrike 50% of your stealth meter. Voila, the TR would be fixed without a game breaking nerf. CoS can stay at 12 charges and not deplete stealth because CoS isn't the problem. 100% perma-stealth is the problem, and it's a big game breaking problem.
For those of you who think perma-stealth only affects PvP, just think about the last time you did FH. Did you kill any of the bosses aside from Hrimnir? Why not? Was it because there was a perma-stealth rogue in your party? Yes, that's right, people don't complain about the perma-stealth rogue helping them skip content because to most of us it is a good thing. I'm sure Cryptic doesn't want us skipping the content they work so hard to make though.
Either way, that's why they're nerfing stealth. Because in the current state of the game it is broken. They don't need to nerf stealth, no, they just need to make it not possible to have unlimited stealth. But good players don't qq when they lose to good players, only bad players do. So the only ones telling Cryptic what to fix in the game is the bad players who have no understanding of what is actually wrong in the first place.
Oh and your comment about glory gear giving hp regen on GWF is moot. No one who is even half-decent good uses glory gear in pvp and you get more HP regen without the need to go unstoppable if you stack blue regeneration items (neck, rings, belts)
Hope that helps.
EDIT: Meant to say this at the end: I have every class in the game at lvl 60 and I do not believe there is any balance issues aside from the perma-stealth, and I have a perma-stealth rogue too. It just feels so cheap when I use him so I quit playing him in PvP and only use him to help in DDs now.
Cheers.
Good rogues are still going to be destroying people in pvp.
99% of rogues, dont have the 7 perfect G-Tenebs. Those people are so far and fiew between it doesnt bother me at all, I dont care if they have 20 G-Tenebs if it was possible. Why? again, because they are so fiew of them, its so rare to run into them. Most "geared" rogues are around 10-11k GS, with rank 7's, or 5's and 6's. You dont "need" those stupid Tenebrous enchants to be good in PvP. I dont have one, nor do I have all rank 7's..(only have 3 rank 7's atm, rest is rank 5's), and 19 out of 20 matches I am in first place with the most kills by a landslide.
Nerfing Lurkers? Ok, its not a rogues "crutch" to be awesome. Impact Shot is good for 5-7(9k+) on single hits quite often while not even in stealth. Lashing Blade is still very hard hitting without using LA or stealth, 10k+. Dazing Strike also good for 5-10k.
Duelist Fury taking a hit, but I dont believe its going to be as bad as what people think.
Bottom line, rogues are still going to *** **** bad people in PvP in a blink of an eye, and lets face it, those are the ones that were crying about rogues in the first place. However I also agree to the nerfs of the perma stealth, not sure what Cryptic was thinking when they made that an option.
The only real actual "nerf" in my mind is after the supposed nerf patch, rogues wont be able to **** 3 people up in a matter of 3 seconds using LA. If you werent aware, a good rogue can do this while using a good build and LA.
IMO the only rogues screaming and blowing up the forums about how upset they are, and how they are going to quit there rogue if the patch comes and blah blah cry some more.....Are the bad ones. The good ones I guarantee you already have the new build they are going to use when the patch comes out, or have already switched to it to start mastering it.
TR's are top kills by a landslide b/c they finish everyone off with LB, not because they are so amazingly skilled or overpowered. Amount of deaths mean more to a TR's score than kills imo. ie 12/1/10 > 25/12/20. less deaths also usually means you are capping points and not just player hunting, which is what actually wins pvp not kills.
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
0
nukeyooBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Right, every class has its own combat advantage. Rogues' stealth has it unique strength, aka unseen from a certain distance. It also has weaknesses that other class can use to take advantage of them, such as stealth meter gets reduced in combat, stealth can be seen through within melee range, or going stealth make a unique sound that you can hear from far away, etc.
That's why I use tenacious concealment. (Eliminates 90% of your proposed weakness). That's why the complaints are towards CoS in stealth not sly flourish or duelist flurry. This one just made me laugh. Half the time the TR's are seen before they go stealth. The sound hardly creates a weakness.
There are so many threads that discuss how to against stealth. Thus, stealth is no longer a myth. Many people with all classes, including CWs, found effective ways to win over stealth rogues.
It was never a myth. All the counters that have been presented in the multitude of threads regarding this issue are easily counter countered by a well played rogue.
However, there are 3 types of people who keep crying over stealth rogues. The first one are under-gear new lvl 60 getting face-rolled by geared rogues.The second one are those refuse to take advises from others thinking that people must be changed for their flavor.The last one is "troll" who just want to get people to their nerves for fun.
So I'm assuming I fall under one of these 3 types of people you're listing. Are these undergeared? My TR and CW The advice being offered is nothing that I don't already know. I know both sides of the scenario thoroughly performing the very thing I'm describing as OP quite systematically. I just finished my 2 daily pvp matches on my TR with a combined totals of 2 wins, 37 kills, 2 deaths. (wow im so gud:rolleyes:) Still using mostly rank 5s and dominating is stupid easy. While I won't deny being a troll since my overuse of gifs/meme's trolling the forums inevitably lead to the new RoC due to the server load it was creating. Not to mention the temporary ban received for trolling the hall monitors over the matter. I'd like to think I'm bringing a sensible argument to this discussion.
Could there be a 4th type? Perhaps a person that with the knowledge of both sides of the scenario thinking rationally believes some aspects of the class are a bit much?
I did not say that your assumption is wrong. Actually, it makes sense.
However, either you or me has the dev's data. Any assumption even with the best logic could be wrong without hard evidence or statistics. The devs will not show us their data anyway so all of us could only assume things based on what has been happening on the forum. And according to the nerf history, I could only say it seems to be the nerfbat is pretty much based on the vocal on the forum about PvP.
So when presented with the possibilities, assume the worst of the devs since they don't agree with you. While the vocalization of concerns on the forum perhaps brought the issues to light for the devs to look at particular aspects. I doubt they flipped a switch to implement any changes without studying/testing the aspects in question. Since you agree that them doing so, actually makes sense.
Comments
You need split second reaction to pull that off successfully and no lag, besides rouges dodge still functions perfectly in stealth. As it is right now, you dodging the incoming attack depends not on youre awesome skills but pure luck and that is pure nonsense.
Funny, when my friend start playing GF and was capping the point, i was able to tell him that he has TR on his side, before he even got close. He still managed to put shield up and block incoming lashing. Can you tell me how person who`s not playing could predict TR attack early enough to even give warning? If not, the post ya wrote may end up "pure nonsense" ya know.
Edit: Ofc GF, not GWF. My bad.
wut (10 wuts)
What, you mean you don't think a spammable Tab ability should be able to allow you to tank 4 people at the same time, give you full CC immunity, and temporary HP? That's silly!
Oh, and I'd like you to show me how that Encounter (on a 20+ second cooldown) can 1-shot people without using a Daily.
- GWF - You can hang them up in the air in 1 sec. They pop unstoppable. Hey, you are still able to target them but what you can do to them since they immune to your cc plus temporary defense, hp, refection, etc. all in one package.
- CW - Who shots first or with soulforge enchantment will win.
Do you have any proof to say otherwise?
Youre friend has a sixth sense and he should not be wasting it on video games. As for the rest of us mere mortals its still about luck and no lagging, but mostly its luck tho. I could tell you stories how i managed to land single target skills on stealth TRs but unlike some i know it was not me being skillful it was me striking the lucky hit. P.s. rouges can still dodge in stealth, so arguing perma stealth is not broken, is kind of pointless.
GWF used Shield? O_O
heres how you can tell if TR on stealth is near (stealth sound)you know that TR is nearby but you dont know where unless they attack and you have reflect (or you point your mouse somewhere and it turns red)
Sorry my fail, GF ofc.
And yeah there are multiple things that pinpoint that TR is goin for you.
1. If you cap the point, you see the bar of cap stop. Meaning, someone is in circle.
2. If ya play with good headset, you can hear some soudns (like going into stealth, or LA sound. It`s a bit faster than animation.)
3. In many places the TR go into stealth a bit away from target. Usually they are spottable before they dissapear. I fooled them many times by just standing still with hand on dodge button ;P So be aware of ya surrounding. If ya ain`t good at that, just move randomly around.
4. Ways mentioned above and in other posts.
PS: Never checked that way with mouse aim over stealthed TR so i can`t confirm that
All of which is seen. Nice try though.
Only simple logic and rational thinking. Something the majority of TR's that have gotten so use to the combat advantages that are allotted to them in game lack. Insulting someone such as the developers because you don't agree with them is prime example of irrationality. Here's where you can go in depth about how all the other classes and their combat advantages. Then I simply state, yes there are other classes such as GWF and perhaps GF that need to be looked at extensively also in terms of tweaking some of their abilities. I am sure they're under the microscope also. By your logic, if you really want the other classes to be nerfed also get all your friends together and make enough QQ threads so the developers that do no research or data mining will swing the nerfbat in their direction also.
There are so many threads that discuss how to against stealth. Thus, stealth is no longer a myth. Many people with all classes, including CWs, found effective ways to win over stealth rogues.
However, there are 3 types of people who keep crying over stealth rogues. The first one are under-gear new lvl 60 getting face-rolled by geared rogues. The second one are those refuse to take advises from others thinking that people must be changed for their flavor. The last one is "troll" who just want to get people to their nerves for fun.
I did not say that your assumption is wrong. Actually, it makes sense.
However, either you or me has the dev's data. Any assumption even with the best logic could be wrong without hard evidence or statistics. The devs will not show us their data anyway so all of us could only assume things based on what has been happening on the forum. And according to the nerf history, I could only say it seems to be the nerfbat is pretty much based on the vocal on the forum about PvP.
You two are totally missing the point i am trying to make. It dose not take an Einstein to figure out when youre nod is turning red and you see no one that there is TR, or when daggers are flying from no where. Most TRs have mastered the dodge right after they go in to stealth, but this is besides the point since if you see them incoming its about 50/50 if you strike or not, which is fair. The unfair part begins when they do enter stealth and that is when you start to claim its all about my great skills and spot on timing to dodge the incoming attacks, which its not.
Most TRs that are not brain dead will make you waste the dodges, by ether running close to you or plain throwing daggers. I am not a mind reader like you seem to be, i cant guess when they will strike, i just pray when i dodge that it was not wasted and i actually dodged something. It would have been alright if it was about 50% of the time spent fighting with TRs when you are forced to rely on luck but stealth TRs are so beyond broken that you spend literally 80% of the time guessing. I had a stealth TR the other day who finally got uncloaked, I managed to land two skills on him. In total it took about 5-8 seconds and he was back in to stealth mode, obviously i had my dodge bar wasted from previous loop. Now tell me that is not broken. I know nothing that i say will convince stealth TRs to agree with me. Ether way the incoming nerf was long overdue, i just hope it wont gimp PvE too much but since stealth speck is strictly PvP spec i am not too worried.
it should be limited
GF = Guard but cant dodge / can knock/hit them from back
GFs guard meter is balance cant have unli guard
DC = ...
CW = 1 skill
heres the 2 OP tab skill
GWF = CC immune / sure deflect / High temporary HP / Heal 5% with feat and if youre using glory set +10% heal
theres no way to recover/increase unstop meter while using it (but its still OP bec of high temporary hp and sure deflect)
TR = has dodge and stealth (theyre the master of trick so its ok)
but stealth is broken can have unli stealth and have lots of daily / atwill / paragon feat to instant replenish it
add Lurkers Assault and watch them melt other classes even GFs
why nerf/balance stealth?
Without 7 Tene's perma-stealth rogue's do very little damage, not mention with upcoming CoS nerf it will be almost unused in PvP.
GF: block 100% of incoming damage AND CC including daily's while also building extremely fast AP to crush your next victim... GF's shift is amazing to say the least.
CW: Players only get 3 powers, to get a 4th encounter (especially on a character with so much CC) and to have it empowered is really awesome! I PvP on my CW a decent amount and granted they aren't the best 1v1, but when you are supporting your team from the back you can pump out amazing dmg/cc. Not to mention ray of frost is about the only way to kill GF.
Also I believe GWF just gets a flat 50% damage reduction from everything, although I guess that would be the same as 100% deflect
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
The thing you seem to not be realizing here is that the GF doesn't have unlimited block meter and the GWF doesn't have unlimited unstoppable meter. The only thing that needs a fix on the TR is their ability to have unlimited stealth meter. Everything else is fine, but if they can have unlimited stealth then the GWFs should be able to have unlimited unstoppable, the GFs should have unlimited guard meter and the DCs should have unlimited divinity pips.
Furthermore Unstoppable is not OP because the damage mitigation and the temp hitpoints are based on how full the unstoppable meter is and it only fills up from you taking damage (destroyer's purpose speeds this up a bit, but if you have destroyer's purpose you know what I mean when I say it only fills up from taking damage). You can activate the unstoppable meter at 50% and it will buff you only slightly and give very little temp hitpoints and it will wear off faster than you can say 'Sharandar'. In order to take the amount of damage one needs to take to proc the 50% damage mitigation and max temp hit points, that GWF needs to lose about 30% of their max hp. If a TR and a GWF have equal gear score and go 1v1, the GWF's unstoppable will never out regen+mitigate the dps of the TR.
Now lets just take a look at stealth. When you are in stealth you can throw daggers from a distance where no one can see/target/attack you, thus have the ability to kill an enemy without them knowing where you even are. Nevermind the GWF's 50% damage mitigation once he's taken 30% of his max hp in damage, you have 100% damage mitigation from the get-go without having to take any damage. On top of that, the GWF can only proc his unstoppable once in a while, as he must build the meter again. With the current perma-stealth going on, the rogue can have stealth up 100% of the time. So you have 100% damage mitigation 100% of the time and out dps everyone on the field. I'm sorry if that doesn't sound broken to you, but it sure does sound broken to anyone who isn't a perma-stealth TR.
Don't get me wrong, the TR dps is not the problem. The only problem is perma-stealth which they can fix by simply making Bait and Switch replenish only 50% of your stealth meter and Shadowstrike 50% of your stealth meter. Voila, the TR would be fixed without a game breaking nerf. CoS can stay at 12 charges and not deplete stealth because CoS isn't the problem. 100% perma-stealth is the problem, and it's a big game breaking problem.
For those of you who think perma-stealth only affects PvP, just think about the last time you did FH. Did you kill any of the bosses aside from Hrimnir? Why not? Was it because there was a perma-stealth rogue in your party? Yes, that's right, people don't complain about the perma-stealth rogue helping them skip content because to most of us it is a good thing. I'm sure Cryptic doesn't want us skipping the content they work so hard to make though.
Either way, that's why they're nerfing stealth. Because in the current state of the game it is broken. They don't need to nerf stealth, no, they just need to make it not possible to have unlimited stealth. But good players don't qq when they lose to good players, only bad players do. So the only ones telling Cryptic what to fix in the game is the bad players who have no understanding of what is actually wrong in the first place.
Oh and your comment about glory gear giving hp regen on GWF is moot. No one who is even half-decent good uses glory gear in pvp and you get more HP regen without the need to go unstoppable if you stack blue regeneration items (neck, rings, belts)
Hope that helps.
EDIT: Meant to say this at the end: I have every class in the game at lvl 60 and I do not believe there is any balance issues aside from the perma-stealth, and I have a perma-stealth rogue too. It just feels so cheap when I use him so I quit playing him in PvP and only use him to help in DDs now.
Cheers.
99% of rogues, dont have the 7 perfect G-Tenebs. Those people are so far and fiew between it doesnt bother me at all, I dont care if they have 20 G-Tenebs if it was possible. Why? again, because they are so fiew of them, its so rare to run into them. Most "geared" rogues are around 10-11k GS, with rank 7's, or 5's and 6's. You dont "need" those stupid Tenebrous enchants to be good in PvP. I dont have one, nor do I have all rank 7's..(only have 3 rank 7's atm, rest is rank 5's), and 19 out of 20 matches I am in first place with the most kills by a landslide.
Nerfing Lurkers? Ok, its not a rogues "crutch" to be awesome. Impact Shot is good for 5-7(9k+) on single hits quite often while not even in stealth. Lashing Blade is still very hard hitting without using LA or stealth, 10k+. Dazing Strike also good for 5-10k.
Duelist Fury taking a hit, but I dont believe its going to be as bad as what people think.
Bottom line, rogues are still going to *** **** bad people in PvP in a blink of an eye, and lets face it, those are the ones that were crying about rogues in the first place. However I also agree to the nerfs of the perma stealth, not sure what Cryptic was thinking when they made that an option.
The only real actual "nerf" in my mind is after the supposed nerf patch, rogues wont be able to **** 3 people up in a matter of 3 seconds using LA. If you werent aware, a good rogue can do this while using a good build and LA.
IMO the only rogues screaming and blowing up the forums about how upset they are, and how they are going to quit there rogue if the patch comes and blah blah cry some more.....Are the bad ones. The good ones I guarantee you already have the new build they are going to use when the patch comes out, or have already switched to it to start mastering it.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
That's why I use tenacious concealment. (Eliminates 90% of your proposed weakness).
That's why the complaints are towards CoS in stealth not sly flourish or duelist flurry.
This one just made me laugh. Half the time the TR's are seen before they go stealth. The sound hardly creates a weakness.
It was never a myth. All the counters that have been presented in the multitude of threads regarding this issue are easily counter countered by a well played rogue.
So I'm assuming I fall under one of these 3 types of people you're listing.
Are these undergeared? My TR and CW
The advice being offered is nothing that I don't already know. I know both sides of the scenario thoroughly performing the very thing I'm describing as OP quite systematically. I just finished my 2 daily pvp matches on my TR with a combined totals of 2 wins, 37 kills, 2 deaths. (wow im so gud:rolleyes:) Still using mostly rank 5s and dominating is stupid easy.
While I won't deny being a troll since my overuse of gifs/meme's trolling the forums inevitably lead to the new RoC due to the server load it was creating. Not to mention the temporary ban received for trolling the hall monitors over the matter. I'd like to think I'm bringing a sensible argument to this discussion.
Could there be a 4th type? Perhaps a person that with the knowledge of both sides of the scenario thinking rationally believes some aspects of the class are a bit much?
So when presented with the possibilities, assume the worst of the devs since they don't agree with you. While the vocalization of concerns on the forum perhaps brought the issues to light for the devs to look at particular aspects. I doubt they flipped a switch to implement any changes without studying/testing the aspects in question. Since you agree that them doing so, actually makes sense.