I wont go into the many problems with PVP. You all know what they are. So here is a list of "suggestions" or changes that would really make this game a TON more fun (in my opinion).
You will see I am passionate about this subject because pvp IS my end game... I only run PVE so I can pvp better... It is what I love doing and will always do, and want a system that encourages players to play, not afk out and also a system that diminishes the rewards bots get.
I prefer to do pvp only also, its my gold source, though it is slow going. I am delving some now, simply because I do want ad, faster.. but... I prefer to pvp.
FIRSTRemove "Points" and give straight up glory for things YOU do in PVP. Cap a node? Get 30 glory. Get a kill? +10 glory. Assist? +5 glory. Note: Kills should be awarded to whomever did the most damage to the target, NOT who gets the killing blow. Assists will only be awarded to someone who does over say 20% hp as damage, cant just get a 100 damage hit and it counts. This will fix alot of the bot issues since they wont kill much, wont assist much AND wont cap much.
I do not agree with this. My char I designed to do little damage, but be as nearly unkillable as it gets. I can tank 3 people with this system, and not even get an assist, meaning I may not have even been in the match any longer, instead of the current system that gets 25 points.
It will also do nothing to the bots. The ones leveling up, are doing it for leveling up. Glory is only a side effect. Not only that, at lower levels, that level 10 eq will see them easily get assists during those levels, not to mention a few kills. I have also seen some bots because of capping, and being there while the node is being capped, get over 3k points in a match (node changing hands... often)
At level 60 many of these bots are geared in level 60 gear. I was in a match recently where a bot was in a guild (illuminati) running same bot pattern as usual, to node 2 etc, but he was decked out. Granted he couldn't play as a real person, but got 4 kills, did high damage (trickster rogue). He had the lowest score, of about 2k
Nothing is solved in this issue as far as glory. Nor is there any deterrant here for experience gains.
Another idea I had was this: Instead of just flat out awarding glory for capping, Award glory every few seconds if you capped it and its still held by your team... Maybe 1 glory for every 10 points your team gains from that cap (ie uncontested 10 seconds) and give no glory for winning since capping will be a huge deal (possible 200 points a game per location). This really incentives players to hold onto points and not trade.
bots in this situation, helped cap the node, and continue to get that reward. also with this, does your team still get points for the node per second? just how are you modifying the terms to win the match? Because if winning is based solely on pvp, you are going to have some guild groups running over everyone, and almost no pug groups left, because the greater majory if pugs do not know how to play their character, do domination pvp, or anything other than stand there and press a button, and think they are doing something.
EDIT: someone pointed out cap swapping and kill swapping. To eliminate this glory awarded will be capped at say 500 (excluding winning bonus glory of 100). The "PVP hour event" That awards extra glory would be a bonus ontop of that for winning meaning you could get 650ish (500+100 +(bonus 50)? Just an idea. This prevents "swapping" and also gives a "ranking range" of 0-500. You could potentially have a 500 ranking if you got max glory 10 games ina row. But then you pair against even matched players.
lessen glory gains. Doesn't hurt a bot at all, they can keep running 24/7 while we have to suffer them. So why make the people that are playing and still doing pvp suffer with lower rewards? that isn't necessary.
EDIT: Someone pointed out "easy capping" the close points as a way to farm points not the game itself. AN idea is to give the center point worth more glory than the side points, so players have much incentive to cap that over the easy ones. Something like 45 per center point and 30 per side points? Ideally if you have 2 ppl cap side caps = 15 glory each, making the main cap = 45 glory even if you have 3 there, you get ATLEAST that and not to mention a favorable footing for your team...
SecondIf you win a game you get a small bonus, say +100 glory. If you lose, you LOSE maybe 50-100 glory (up to you guys ideally you could earn a net 0 by getting some assists and a few caps). MOST match making systems are based on a "net zero" idea so avoid boosting etc. The PVP bonus glory event could also curtail the glory LOST by 50% making it an incentive to play during that hour for both sides... if you normally lose 100 glory, well now you only lose 50... If you normally win 100, now you win 150...
EDIT: The lose glory per loss idea also eliminates kill swapping since players have more incentive now to crush their opponents. Why would you kill swap only to risk LOSING 100 glory at the end. I know I would hate that... The lose also makes it much harder to save up large amounts of glory and if you capped at 500 by kill swapping, well your net effect is then only +400 which wouldnt be THAT hard to do if you just tried from the get go to win. I mean a score of 300 + a win = a "kill swap" of 500 - 100 lost... Think about that...
Not to mention Kill swapping will want to be avoided due to the higher ranking youll get meaning you face tougher opponents and more likely to lose a match and lose glory in the future. So again, score 300 and win 100 for 400 and your RANK is 300 OR score 500 lose 100 but your RANK is 500.... No point...
This bothers me. In guild groups, and good matches, there is always at least one person that will sacrifice himself, and a lot of times quite often, to keep 3 people at bay. That person will not cap that node, he will not get kills, but he is the most important, as he is willing to holdhis ground 30 seconds or so against 3 people.. to give his team the advantage and win. Your system is worse than the current system, in that yours says they did not participate at all, despite that these are the people that win you the match quite often. They get the least rewards, but they are the ones using potions / tactics / healings / runnings, tying up enemies... just for the win. How would you reward these people, you say are doing nothing?
With them being able to hold their ground for 30 seconds or so.. give them a ranking in your case, of 0 - 150?Often times in 1v1 these people will smoke almost all pugs, and some guildies, because they are good.. but they have no ranking, and cannot compete with stronger people, per your system.. when not many of them are stronger.
THIRDIf you LEAVE a game early, you lose DOUBLE glory (so 100-200) Either that OR tie that character to the game NOT letting them que up for another pvp match until that game is over. OR both!
Pvp should not be a punishment. If I enter a match, and I have 2 bots on my team, and the other zerg the back node trying to do their best to help the enemy win. The incentive to stay is not there. In fact staying would be worse than anything. Quite a few matches today all five enemies, none of them reached above 300 points. Some stayed and got no reward. The rest were wise to leave.
Now here comes your system. You want us to suffer the bad players, bots, no matter what, because players will not learn, and bots will not be gotten rid of by devs?
I say it as this.. if you are playing so badly that you are helping the enemy team win, going into a pvp match under dressed, wont even play your character right, you deserve to have no friends, allies, just to get your butt whooped as you deserve. And you deserve to suffer your own mess you tried to put your party into.
Do not punish leaving, punish lack of skill / intellect / etc et al. Then the have no choice other than to learn to play their class / game. Much less leavers from that also because the parties are no longer there with its members playing to lose.
FORTHCreate a "matchmaking" system that gives you an average ranking of say your last 10 matches. If you have a 200 average glory score, you WONT be matched against a guy whose a 500 glory score or more... Let us wait another 1-2 min to find a BETTER match then just que up and its hit or miss...
The other idea is to just total the last 10 games player glory so a possible 5000 rank. This gives a higher number for easier matchmaking. It shouldnt be too hard to throw a system like that up, if you have a party, it just averages your parties ranking. Take a 4500 rank and a 3500 rank, it treats you guys as if you are 4000. You can make the first "try" to match someone within say 500 points of the rank so if you are a 3500 rank you can play anyone 3000-4000. That would encompass alot of players and should provide pretty easy match making. Or start small and do like 200+(-) so its 3300-3700 Still a decent amount of players (and average group score too).
One of the beauties of this system is if someone falls to a low matchmaking rank, eventually you would think they can score decent in a few games and in effect raise their ranking for new matches.
except for the person that often sacrifices himself, to see the team win. That person will have a low ranking, and constantly do as he does best.. which is tank / sacri, for little glory / little gain to himself, but to win for the extras of winning, and knowing his team won. You really want that guy paired down to a lower bracket, full of people that cant do much?
I would rather spend 5 minutes in matchmaking for a good game then 30 seconds to find a game where the team gets rolled and most quit out immediately.
that is going to happen often still. People dc in matches all the time not of their own choosing. They are gathered in with bots. You get groups that aren't there for pvp just rewards (and do nothing beyond 600 points, at all) There are all the bots.. there is going to be a great many lopsided matches that you cant fix with this system. It actually changes nothing.
FIFTH To fix DCs not getting glory: Give them credit for 1/2 of anything done by someone they heal for more than say 25% of their HP. PLUS whatever they do. If they heal someone (over 25% of HP) and that person kills AND they assisted (remember assist = 20-25% of their hp as damage), they can get an assist PLUS (1/2 of the kill of 10 glory) meaning they get 10 glory too... This rewards healers for well.. healing...
was in a match where a dc healed like a maniac, and had over 20 kills. Good healer. My healer is badly dressed (pvp gear, purples) and can often get 5-10 kills in a match, with using astral shield, and buffs etc et al. That is overkill that is here.
The real thing to think about here is could the player have gotten the kill without the healing? If so, why reward the healer unless they do something meaningful (aka heal enough OR damage the opponent enough).
completely unnecessary. A healer that is not incompetent can score as high as anyone else.
SIXTHAdd a T3 weapon set, remove 25k glory cap and make T3 weapon for 80- 100k glory. The weapon set will be "on par" with the CN set but with the PVP stats... BEFORE you flame... Think about the time investment 100k glory will be with this NEW system versus CN runs... and while YES horrible players can EVENTUALLY get there... Itll be the good players that will really end up getting the weapons twice if not 3xfaster...
and bots fastest.
Think about it. 100k glory / an average of say even 600 per game = 166 games and if a match making system comes in play thats 166 games against equal players... Earn 200 a game and thats 500 PVP games... Think about it.
I do. bots are rampant already. The game is flooded with them, so let us give more incentive to bot 24/7 with multiple characters for tons of glory. It doesn't matter that they get less glory than everyone else, because their matches are 24/7.. and no human can keep up with that.
EDIT:
SEVENTHCreate a "PVP Map FOUNDRY EVENT" where for two weeks you accept foundry submissions for PVP maps then once submissions are closed, put the top 5 maps on the test shard and then after each pvp game players vote on the map (rating system like foundary already has) Each player can only vote once per each map once played...
At the end of the event. TWO maps are selected and put into the LIVE game. The creators get a unique title... EVERYONE wins!
This will require SOME time to code BUT will go a LONG way in preserving this games longevity in PVP. Which is a big reason SOME people play MMOs...
I am bad. I haven't messed with the foundary yet (cough cough) but I would like to see some new variety (especially without exploits)
Some of the things the OP wrote are good ideas. But i think that some other map will be a good thing Something like dominion, fast, not too long or complicated. Just to do something different. Ok, there's GG, but it's not the same thing.
Maybe I missed a post about this but quick question.
Other than glory, what are you going to do to appeal to the non pvp players? What incentive for them to play? none? Better get use to the idea of long queues and waiting forever. Especially for people who play in the "off" hours.
T3 rewards would appeal to non PVPers. Also Im not proposing a marketing scheme here to get pve players to pvp more, im just proposing a fix to PVP to make it more fun AND rewarding for people that do pvp…
Assists and kills should give the same amount.
Sometimes it's just pure luck whoever gets the kills, but moast of the time it's just the guy with the highest burst. Lets say a DC have struggled in a fight for maybe 30sec, then a TR comes and steal the kill. There's no reason the TR should be rewarded more.
Other scenarios like 1vs1, it's 90% of the time whoever have daily up first who wins. Unless they make so that daily meter deminish when out of combat i don't see a reason to give extra points for 1vs1 kills either.
Healing others should be considered an assist, if they kill someone.
The Gear from pvp that you're able to sell on AH deminish in price every day. Soon it won't be worth anything. So what they need to do is to add t2 sets for Glory thats BOP. Or else glory will be pointless in a month.
IF they do my proposed fix, itll be whoever did the most damage to the person gets the kill, NOT whoever gets the KB. Now for that 2 min DC vs enemy fight… well if the TR comes up and can 1 shot MORE than 2 minutes of DC damage well… he frankly deserves the kill the DC will still get an assist AND they will both share points for a cap… Its fair in reality…
As for glory gear being worthless, it already is basically worthless… don’t need to wait a month…
Some of the things the OP wrote are good ideas. But i think that some other map will be a good thing Something like dominion, fast, not too long or complicated. Just to do something different. Ok, there's GG, but it's not the same thing.
Couldn’t agree more, but my goal with this post is to give the most bang for buck meaning fix the issues that are currently wrong before adding more game types and more maps.
if they only have so many resources to use, pick what you would rather have 1) better gameplay in pvp or 2) a new map or new type of play… Either way itll still have the same broken mechanics we have today.
So my ideas are to 1) fix TODAYs current pvp and THEN 2) create the foundary submission event where they can then add new maps…
A “King of the Hill” type map would be AWESOME! Just 1 hill, and you get points for every team member in the “zone” while it being NOT contested… meaning you only get points per second in NO other players are in there… Would be some really nice battles, although to avoid class issues the “area” would have to be fairly large so casters can be inside of it and maintain range advantage…
I still see so many threads talking about most of whats in here... I really want to get a DEVs attention because these changes will fix most of whats wrong with pvp...
1) Get rid of bots. PWE doesn't hire GMs to handle bot and exploiter reports, so bots will most likely remain in this game forever.
2) Fix Greater Tenebrous Enchantment stacking. This is the main reason why broken specs like Sentinel GWF and tank GFs are able to 3-shot while CC locking their opponents. PWE and Cryptic wants Greater Tenebrous to remain overpowered as hell so they can keep selling Zen and keys to open lockboxes. So this most likely won't happen either.
3) Lockout quitters / leavers / afkers from any queue, PvP or PvE, for 1 whole hour. If they want to ruin the experience of 9 other players and waste everyone's time, then they should be punished for it severely. Most likely won't happen either because they'll get too many complaints and excuses of "I D/C'd or lagged out."
4) CC diminishing returns. It makes no sense that any MMO game that has PvP has no diminishing returns, especially in a game like Neverwinter where there are classes specifically built around crowd control: CONTROL Wizards can perma-CC players if they use the right combination of Encounters and Tab moves. GFs can keep players knocked back, up, and down for 8+ seconds, with their targets helpless to do anything about it. GWFs can knockdown enemies and stun them in time to 3-shot people. This game needed CC diminishing returns and/or immunity from launch, but we still don't have it in the game yet.
5) Get rid of mounts for 5v5 PvP. The 2 5v5 PvP maps can't support mounts since they're so small. Mounts make dying have no consequences because you can just instantly respawn, mount up, and be back at nodes 1 or 2 within 5 seconds. Faster mounts also gives an unfair advantage to those with an Epic mount compared to those without one. Seeing as how Cryptic wants to sell more Epic mounts, this change most likely won't happen either.
^1 not bad... but still there is NO incentive to play pvp. No rewards. Nothing worth while to achieve in there... KSing is a major problem for some. And your 1) point still causes alot of problems. People still complain a ton about mis matched games causing people TO quit...
1) Agreed bots will always be in the game UNLESS its a zero sum type of game. If one team LOSES something if they lose, this severly diminishes bots... You dont see alot of botting in games that have zero sum games... Some win some lose...
2) Tene stacking doesnt enable some1 to 3 shot with a sent gwf, thats a misconception. It DOES let them do alot of damage and I agree the enchant doesn eed to be tweaked. But this is about PVP mechanics not class changes and enchant changes... although I agree here
3) This wont work because people will be afraid to que or much less likely to que because the punishment is severe and there is no reward to pvp... This will really just diminish the pool of players that do pvp... My ideas curtailed the incentive to leave but it has to be a punishment that means something, I think 1 hour is too strict. Plus others that are playing their "last game" of the night/day can still just leave and who cares... I dont like the 1 hour idea.
4) Yes while this would be a decent change, most MMOs also dont have as much burst damage so ifx one side and you have to fix the other. Part of classes ability to survive is CC and trying to control the battlefield.. I feel CC dim returns is a good change, again thats about class power tweaking not necessarily pvp game design.
5) Many other MMOs give incentives to mounts. Also if you are at the 3rd point, and someone is at the far point there is NO way you can make it to contest that point or prevent the cap... So that would need adjusting... Mounts arent a problem honestly. what they SHOULD do though is create a glory mount vendor to sell specific PVP only mounts so players that want that epic mount but only in pvp can farm glory for it and not have to buy it via zen or w.e...
Even with your proposed changes, it still wont fix many of the issues with pvp. Less people would play. TONS of people would QQ about all the AD they spent on tene enchants and they would be almost worthless so people would just quit (going from OP to worthless in 1 night... makes some want to quit for a while). Removing mounts will HAMSTER others off who bought epic mounts because of pvp...
Typically when balancing games its not the BEST idea to just flat out nerf things but to try and find a way to balance things instead giving players pros and cons... For instance... Just removing epic mounts, not a great idea as itll make people mad. But giving others a way to COMPETE with epic mounts but with the drawback of pvp only fixes the issue, for the most part, without making 1 person feel like they got the bad end of the deal...
Same with Tene... completely nerf them, people feel screwed over and get mad... BALANCE them, and people feel like they got a pro with their con...
My two ideas around TENE are turn it into DOT damage OR create dim returns on the enchants so each added enchant is not quite as good... So 1 greater is 3%, but if 1 procs in that 20 seconds, the second tene proc would only be like 2.5% of current HP... This hurts stacking a ton of them, reduces the damage of people that stack alot but still keeps them valuable and balanced... Although I think they need seperate timers for PVP and PVE since in PVE they are worthless... its kinda the trade off with them... I cant even PVE on my GWF Sent because he is less than worthless in pve... My price to pay...
my gwf non sent can solo t2 dungeons except for the boss fights, I did this with frozen heart just because I entered and had no party. Got one, killed first boss, and they all left me. I went to rimefang by myself.
I have no tenebs at all.
That you are a sent is a large part of it. Most of your feats are broken / do not work, or do not work as intended. The rest if you cannot take many hits, is your eq.
Tenebs do not need nerfed, they need removed from all items that are not a weapon offense slot, and left to remain in that slot only, as it is a weapon enchant shard, and should be placed as such as every other shard (for weapon/armor offense/defense slot.
epic mounts are not a waste in pvp. Actually, most threads on epic mounts in pvp say they give an unfair advantage, and they do. Much easier ability to survive and chase down. What you are really wanting, is the ability to run away, and not worry about that cash mounter catching up to you.
save up for a cash mount with ad. it is worth it.
teneb stacking does allow a sent to 3 shot a person at its most extreme, without encounters being involved. takes 7 perf tenebs to do. p.s. I wouldn't do it as a sent anyway. Its the fact that most of the feats don't work thing :P (can do the math yourself, even at a base hitpoints of 30k)
And the last thing I will say on this. Having people in my pvp party (that are not there to pvp etc, just daily, don't care etc). wont learn to play. cant learn to play. is level 60 pvp with level 40 greens on. Wont try to do anything, etc.
Some matches, your party is a punishment by itself, that you as a person that wants to win has to suffer.
Pvp isn't about entering the match and having to suffer your own team. Nor is pvp domination.
There is no justification to force someone to be punished just for queue'ing for pvp. Thus there should be no punishment for leaving a match because you were unfairly punished.
This thread isnt about GWFs... Its about PVP changes. Not class changes... Thats about class balance, this is about PVP mechanics that should be changed.
Your getting a little off topic about solo-ing pve, tene enchant balance (which again thats balancing enchants, not pvp mechanics)...
And Yes you Have to punish people for leaving, or else you will NEVER fix the PVP issue...
^1 not bad... but still there is NO incentive to play pvp. No rewards. Nothing worth while to achieve in there... KSing is a major problem for some. And your 1) point still causes alot of problems. People still complain a ton about mis matched games causing people TO quit...
a great way to get gold, and competition, is an incentive to those who like to compete, and for those that are in need of gold, or use gold as a currency to buy items in game instead of off the ah from other players.
Killstealing is a problem. If you are on my team and I am fighting someone, you had better kill that person to if he is there, and our team keep pushing. If you stand there doing nothing while I finish killing the guy, I would kick you from party if I could.
[/QUOTE] 1) Agreed bots will always be in the game UNLESS its a zero sum type of game. If one team LOSES something if they lose, this severly diminishes bots... You dont see alot of botting in games that have zero sum games... Some win some lose...[/QUOTE]
You would get rid of bots, and all players, truthfully. I cant even make gold in that way, so in order to progress my character I have to do everything else, I wont be able to pvp truthfully. 63g takes a long time by farming. Also you do, its farming bots. There will just be ore of those.
[/QUOTE] 2) Tene stacking doesnt enable some1 to 3 shot with a sent gwf, thats a misconception. It DOES let them do alot of damage and I agree the enchant doesn eed to be tweaked. But this is about PVP mechanics not class changes and enchant changes... although I agree here[/QUOTE]
For calculations. 5 perf tenebs. 20% of your life as damage maximum threashhold (all proc same hit) for a gwf with 30k hitpoints only that is 6k damage. That damage cannot be mitigated. In 3 hits maximum threashold is 18k, and able to oneshot some tr's and cw's. (not counting weapon enchants, etc et al, and actual damage of the skills itself, but only the tenebs) so yes. yes any gwf can do this at maximum threshold)
Not even maximum considering their one hit is a crescendo that hits for 5k, 7 hits, 7 chances to proc all five. instantly.
and yes that would make it a one encounter kill, were not even all to proc at once.
[/QUOTE] 3) This wont work because people will be afraid to que or much less likely to que because the punishment is severe and there is no reward to pvp... This will really just diminish the pool of players that do pvp... My ideas curtailed the incentive to leave but it has to be a punishment that means something, I think 1 hour is too strict. Plus others that are playing their "last game" of the night/day can still just leave and who cares... I dont like the 1 hour idea.[/QUOTE]
I would rather be the HAMSTER that says punish the bad players, so the good people can have good competition, and not be stuck with the bad people, and get so disgusted with them that they have to leave or rage at them. etc et al.
[/QUOTE] 4) Yes while this would be a decent change, most MMOs also dont have as much burst damage so ifx one side and you have to fix the other. Part of classes ability to survive is CC and trying to control the battlefield.. I feel CC dim returns is a good change, again thats about class power tweaking not necessarily pvp game design. [/QUOTE]
I cant agree with any diminishing returns on anything at all. I am going to plow damage at that tank, and get massive diminishing returns on it to I deal no damage, while he laughs at me, nah. gear your char well.
[/QUOTE] 5) Many other MMOs give incentives to mounts. Also if you are at the 3rd point, and someone is at the far point there is NO way you can make it to contest that point or prevent the cap... So that would need adjusting... Mounts arent a problem honestly. what they SHOULD do though is create a glory mount vendor to sell specific PVP only mounts so players that want that epic mount but only in pvp can farm glory for it and not have to buy it via zen or w.e...[/QUOTE]
that map is too big for running on foot everywhere, and too ridiculous as a gf to run from one side to the other. Cash mounts do give you a good advantage, so take your ad and buy one, is my opinion on it.
[/QUOTE]Even with your proposed changes, it still wont fix many of the issues with pvp. Less people would play. TONS of people would QQ about all the AD they spent on tene enchants and they would be almost worthless so people would just quit (going from OP to worthless in 1 night... makes some want to quit for a while). Removing mounts will HAMSTER others off who bought epic mounts because of pvp... [/QUOTE]
I got my mount because it makes me go anywhere faster than on foot. I don't know about you, but doing it for pvp, am I running around the city on foot? meh. nope.
[/QUOTE] Typically when balancing games its not the BEST idea to just flat out nerf things but to try and find a way to balance things instead giving players pros and cons... For instance... Just removing epic mounts, not a great idea as itll make people mad. But giving others a way to COMPETE with epic mounts but with the drawback of pvp only fixes the issue, for the most part, without making 1 person feel like they got the bad end of the deal...[/QUOTE]
There are a lot of ways I would suggest bringing more balance to pvp. None of the things in here are it (though tenebs were brought up, having that as weapon offense enchant only as it should have been in the first place is a thing very, and sorely needed. It is the only item made by shards that is not this way, and it wasn't by design.
[/QUOTE] Same with Tene... completely nerf them, people feel screwed over and get mad... BALANCE them, and people feel like they got a pro with their con... [/QUOTE]
they do not need balanced, they need fixed to be as they should be with the other shard created enchants. Its abusing a bug to have 5 and more on a single character, when there should only at max be one. People will ***** and complain all they want, but when any at -will attack can get an extra 6k damage on it just because of enchants, something is massively wrong.
[/QUOTE] My two ideas around TENE are turn it into DOT damage OR create dim returns on the enchants so each added enchant is not quite as good... So 1 greater is 3%, but if 1 procs in that 20 seconds, the second tene proc would only be like 2.5% of current HP... This hurts stacking a ton of them, reduces the damage of people that stack alot but still keeps them valuable and balanced... Although I think they need seperate timers for PVP and PVE since in PVE they are worthless... its kinda the trade off with them... I cant even PVE on my GWF Sent because he is less than worthless in pve... My price to pay...[/QUOTE]
bad idea. the bug would be there still. No diminishing returns, just make the enchantment as it should have been in the first place.
And pve they are not worthless. That is a ridiculous amount of extra damage, and healing.
Also, even without tenebs, as I mentioned in other posts, I solo t2 dungeons except for boss fights.
when my gear is done I expect to be able to solo all t2's if I have to.
^ I have no idea what your talking about now... its too scattered... Your saying there is incentive to pvp because you get gold and competition? Yeah semi... gold is a side benefit and the competition is the main thing, but when you have no type of ranking system, its not really competition and typically within the first 1 minute of the game its a 3 cap for 1 side or the other because players leave... so both those issues need to be fixed...
Your again missing the point... if you lose you get a -100 glory. Its easy to get +100 glory during the match making it a net zero. PVP ISNT about farming gold and never was intended to do so, its about player versus player battles, not to "farm gold"... If you made T3 pvp items attainable by glory, people will farm glory to get progression on their characters... The reason this removed bots is it WILL be hard for bots to earn >100 glory per match meaning they CANT farm consistently, but the average player can...
"For calculations. 5 perf tenebs. 20% of your life as damage maximum threashhold (all proc same hit) for a gwf with 30k hitpoints only that is 6k damage. That damage cannot be mitigated. In 3 hits maximum threashold is 18k" - you do realize there is a 20 sec CD on tene enchants so 3 "all hits" wil ltake anywhere from 41 seconds to a full minute... a full minute of pvp fighting is very rare to see and thats "perf tenes" which I havnt even seen. Most people have 6-7 greaters meaning 18-21% of life and while it is alot... again its a 20 sec CD... I play a 7 GTE Sent GWF and while it is powerful, AND I have a greater vorpal I will tell you I have NEVER 1 hit some1... YOur math is wrong here... I CAN kill them if I get alot of procs AND I use ALL three encounters AND they crit.. But when you stack Sent and GTE you have REALLY crappy crit... so....
YOur proposition to fix leavers wont fix pvp... at all... its just incentive NOT to que, not not to leave the game... people will still join and leave if they are getting stomped, they just wont pvp... there is NO incentive TO pvp so NOT being able to que for 1 hr wont really matter to most people, they will just logout or change characters or run PVE...
Currently pvp is just a time killer for those that are bored and for SOME who do premades its competition... But most games its just a time killer...
"I cant agree with any diminishing returns on anything at all. I am going to plow damage at that tank, and get massive diminishing returns on it to I deal no damage, while he laughs at me, nah. gear your char well." What are you even talking about... gearing and damaging a tank has NOTHING to do with dim returns on CC....
"that map is too big for running on foot everywhere, and too ridiculous as a gf to run from one side to the other. Cash mounts do give you a good advantage, so take your ad and buy one, is my opinion on it. " - I agree here...
"It is the only item made by shards that is not this way" Wow you ARE ignorant... Tene enchants are NOT made by shards... they also have like a 30% chance to fuse... NOT a 1% like everyother enchant... and to say it was designed to be a weapon enchant and not an offensive is just dumb... They have patched Tene a few times... if it wasnt intended... why didnt they catch it and make it as intended and NOT patch it to nerf the CD? Maybe because it WAS intended it just WASNT tested....
"bad idea. the bug would be there still." - Are you kidding... if you had dim returns it would remove people stacking tons of them... if each tene proc after the first in the 20 sec CD frame had a 20% dim return on damage... the first would be a 3% of HP, the second a 2.4% Third a 1.92 forth a 1.5.. so FOUR GREATER tene enchants would only do 8.8% of HP instead of 12... Add 5 and 6 and your at (1.2) and (.96) roughly meaning SIX GREATERS will do 11% of HP instead of 18%... thats a HUGE damage nerf....
"And pve they are not worthless." This statement REALLY shows your ignorance man... seriously... Tene damage @ 30k hp with 1 PERFECT is 4% *30k Hp = 1200 damage. It has a 20 sec CD so 1200/20 = 60 DAMAGE PER SECOND.... In CN runs I can get upwards of 60kDPS so this would boost my damage by .1%Thats HORRIBLE for an enchant when I can throw 185+ more crit which will give me around 1.5% with my greater vorpal thats almost a 2% damage increase AND its a rank 7 versus a PERFECT tene.... That makes NO sense what your saying...
"when my gear is done I expect to be able to solo all t2's if I have to." I will pay money to see you solo CN... OR most T2s for that matter... Im not talking about trash cause its easy, im talking about boss fights with TONS of adds...
All of this to say, there is NO point in arguing about this stuff because it has no relevance to the changed I postd about PVP mechanics... so lets let it lie there...
As for the PVP mechanics:
1) Awarding glory not points - incentive to play even when losing
2) A "net zero" effect where the winner wins glory, losers lose glory - this fixes botting and glory swapping.
3) Leaving makes you lose DOUBLE glory - this is incentive to stay. It only hurts leavers SOME so its a proper incentive...
4) ranking system - this matches players with similar gear/skill AND provides that "competitive" pvp your talking about.
5) Give DC some glory credit if healing... This fixes the healing DCs that get no kills... It rewards them for doing their job of healing others...
6) T3 weapon set - incentive to farm glory.
7) Foundary event - gives us more pvp maps...
These are pvp mechanic changes that fix ALOT of problems... while other issues exist like mounts/enchants/class balance... this ISNT about those, its about PVP mechanics! NOT class balance - that needs to happen but thats other threads...
If these changes in how glory is awarded,matchmaking,leavers etc is fixed it will REALLY go a long way in making pvp a viable end game... the maps is a huge part of it... People get sick of the same 2 maps all the time... People get sick of KSing and DCs never being able to be rewarded for healing... People are sick of leavers/afkers... people are sick of bad matches...
^ I have no idea what your talking about now... its too scattered... Your saying there is incentive to pvp because you get gold and competition? Yeah semi... gold is a side benefit and the competition is the main thing, but when you have no type of ranking system, its not really competition and typically within the first 1 minute of the game its a 3 cap for 1 side or the other because players leave... so both those issues need to be fixed...
my response : I do not need a ranking system to say hey I am special, or hey I suck, to go out there and swing a stick. I would love a ranking system, but set on a dueling scale, rather than a 5v5 scale, or 20v20, because as I stated above, you can get elite people on your team, you can get bots, cashers, undereq'd people, and they affect your rating because of the match. it is horrid.
Your again missing the point... if you lose you get a -100 glory. Its easy to get +100 glory during the match making it a net zero. PVP ISNT about farming gold and never was intended to do so, its about player versus player battles, not to "farm gold"... If you made T3 pvp items attainable by glory, people will farm glory to get progression on their characters... The reason this removed bots is it WILL be hard for bots to earn >100 glory per match meaning they CANT farm consistently, but the average player can...
my response. if you lose a match the reward gains are halved. Yes, they ARE about competition, but if you cannot make forward progress with your character, you really cant do it much, because you are then forced to either buy cash, or do everything else, including overly long dungeons full of adds and boring fights.
Bots will also not be removed by it. So they get less glory? they can be in every match for days on end, something a player cannot do, and because of that, get much more glory than the average player can, and more glory than a person that can pvp for 12 hours straight. (wearing level 10 eq at level 60 also). However with t3 items in the picture, instead of 63g at max glory, they can get items worth a few hundred thousand on the ah, unless its bind on pickup.
"For calculations. 5 perf tenebs. 20% of your life as damage maximum threashhold (all proc same hit) for a gwf with 30k hitpoints only that is 6k damage. That damage cannot be mitigated. In 3 hits maximum threashold is 18k" - you do realize there is a 20 sec CD on tene enchants so 3 "all hits" wil ltake anywhere from 41 seconds to a full minute... a full minute of pvp fighting is very rare to see and thats "perf tenes" which I havnt even seen. Most people have 6-7 greaters meaning 18-21% of life and while it is alot... again its a 20 sec CD... I play a 7 GTE Sent GWF and while it is powerful, AND I have a greater vorpal I will tell you I have NEVER 1 hit some1... YOur math is wrong here... I CAN kill them if I get alot of procs AND I use ALL three encounters AND they crit.. But when you stack Sent and GTE you have REALLY crappy crit... so....
my response : 3 feats in sent path works. test it yourself. The last feat doesn't give any defense bonus, nothing. Two of those feats are gotten by most other gwf's.. the only feat you get as a sent that is actually working beyond those two, is the one giving bonuses to weaponsmasters strike. owwie. heh. Also stacking tenebs gets rid of the delay on the tenebs working in that manner. Go to the trade of blades and attack it. the burst damage goes through constantly, though you don't heal so you can see for yourself. It is a bug with the enchantments that makes them proc severely often. The cooldown is nonexistent when stacking multiples.
also gwf's have 5 offensive slots, so 5 tenebs only. I am only using 4 now, up from 0 until a few days ago. My damage in a gg boss fight increased 100k in a 2 minute fight. Rather significant damage improvement, when 400k is usually the highest one does, and I am now reaching 350k in full titans and defensive. Also I would switch vorpal out for other things, even with critting a lot, your damage is low, and to have a high crit, even after feats, your defense/lifedrain/regen suffers. I prefer lightning, which is another chance of procs btw, and more healing, and chains, and the damage is based on weapon damage which our class gets the highest benefit of, and these enchants proc every hit (including on multiple targets) and damage improves on that rather than critting.
YOur proposition to fix leavers wont fix pvp... at all... its just incentive NOT to que, not not to leave the game... people will still join and leave if they are getting stomped, they just wont pvp... there is NO incentive TO pvp so NOT being able to que for 1 hr wont really matter to most people, they will just logout or change characters or run PVE...
Currently pvp is just a time killer for those that are bored and for SOME who do premades its competition... But most games its just a time killer...
---- my response : I prefer pvp over dungeons. Get into a pug group, that spends an hour (a full freaking hour) just to get to boss, and have them fail. Finding out a cw will not use singularity because he is afraid of taking a hit, uses ice rays that give no ap etc. getting a healer that doesn't use astral seal much for the same reason. gf's that are in a deaths per second build thinking they are tanks just because of the class, without having eq to make them tanky, etc. meh. Give me pvp, this way I can beat on them.
"I cant agree with any diminishing returns on anything at all. I am going to plow damage at that tank, and get massive diminishing returns on it to I deal no damage, while he laughs at me, nah. gear your char well." What are you even talking about... gearing and damaging a tank has NOTHING to do with dim returns on CC....
my response. Of course it does. if you can no longer control me in a fight, that means that tank gets to have his way with you, with your control being about meaningless after a while. Gear up to be better suited to aid both in controls (some set bonuses) extra recovery time (others) etc. or the tank time things like shield blocks on control spells (all time delayed but 2) or say, have gf's start using the daily at level 10 that makes them immune to controls, so they can use their charges to close the gap and start. basically meaning each class has controls. each class has things to make controls meaningless (with dodge being only a basic one). They donot need diminishing returns. it just means you have to adapt. you have to get different gear that gives things like regen to outlast controls (or help) while you work towards getting the upper hand. that's what I mean by gear. Use different skills, play your class differently and react.
"that map is too big for running on foot everywhere, and too ridiculous as a gf to run from one side to the other. Cash mounts do give you a good advantage, so take your ad and buy one, is my opinion on it. " - I agree here...
"It is the only item made by shards that is not this way" Wow you ARE ignorant... Tene enchants are NOT made by shards... they also have like a 30% chance to fuse... NOT a 1% like everyother enchant... and to say it was designed to be a weapon enchant and not an offensive is just dumb... They have patched Tene a few times... if it wasnt intended... why didnt they catch it and make it as intended and NOT patch it to nerf the CD? Maybe because it WAS intended it just WASNT tested....
my response : they are made by shards of tenebrous enchantment. They look exactly like shards of vorpal enchantment, and shards of soulforged enchantment. because they are made by shards. for the rest I posted above.
"bad idea. the bug would be there still." - Are you kidding... if you had dim returns it would remove people stacking tons of them... if each tene proc after the first in the 20 sec CD frame had a 20% dim return on damage... the first would be a 3% of HP, the second a 2.4% Third a 1.92 forth a 1.5.. so FOUR GREATER tene enchants would only do 8.8% of HP instead of 12... Add 5 and 6 and your at (1.2) and (.96) roughly meaning SIX GREATERS will do 11% of HP instead of 18%... thats a HUGE damage nerf....
my comments : I would just rather see it be made a weapon enchant, like the other shard enchants, and have just one slot. Don't need diminishing returns then.
"And pve they are not worthless." This statement REALLY shows your ignorance man... seriously... Tene damage @ 30k hp with 1 PERFECT is 4% *30k Hp = 1200 damage. It has a 20 sec CD so 1200/20 = 60 DAMAGE PER SECOND.... In CN runs I can get upwards of 60kDPS so this would boost my damage by .1%Thats HORRIBLE for an enchant when I can throw 185+ more crit which will give me around 1.5% with my greater vorpal thats almost a 2% damage increase AND its a rank 7 versus a PERFECT tene.... That makes NO sense what your saying...
my comments. see above post. stack tenebs it bugs the cooldown and makes it so isn't one. by all means, throw on a perf vorpal, which means to have high crit, you aren't tanking much for HAMSTER (probably why you cant do dungeon runs solo, even to parts not on boss fights). your damage is stil horridly low btw. you would get much more benefit over time from a lightning. stacking tenebs takes away the cooldown, has a chance to proc per hit, weaponmasters strike can hit 5 targets at once, spread damage and healing is significant, etc et al. that is what I am talking about
"when my gear is done I expect to be able to solo all t2's if I have to." I will pay money to see you solo CN... OR most T2s for that matter... Im not talking about trash cause its easy, im talking about boss fights with TONS of adds...
my response : no. not cn. I said t2.. castle never is on a class of its own. right now I can do them with the exception of boss fights. Gimme till next weekend and I will do 1. I should have my gear set up to do it by then rather easily
I know the devs are focused on new content... But PVP is half the endgame and what is keeping alot of players in this game... PLEASE look at the feedback about it on forums and make adjustments... You DONT always need new content to appease players, thats PVE... Sometimes you just need to fix things currently (like PVP) and it goes a LONG way...
Maybe add arenas? 2v2 and 3v3 like wow .. and give a new currency for t3
Also make the pvp be different from the pve gear.. or at least better ... At the moment the pvp gear sucks compared with pve gear even for pvp
Yeah 2v2 and 3v3 would be awesome... Im not a fan with adding MORE currency... There is already SO much currency as it is... I would rather have less.. thats just me.
I dont know if I agree with the gear thing too... All that ends up happening is that you segregate the PVE and PVP players too much. WoW DEVs admitted resiliance was a horrible idea, and I have to agree. It made PVE players "outcast" to pvp and I dont really like that.
What I DO agree with is that when a 60 player looks at getting gear, he has multiple avenues to do so.
The TYPICAL end game gear is PVE. Running 5 mans, CN etc.
Most beginners use glory gear as a starting place, which is cool BUT it kinda stops there... Yes you can run GG and get coins but I think equal type of gear should be available to those who want to farm pvp or farm pve...
I like that GG provides coins for t2 pvp gear. I personally think this should ALSO be attainable via glory. I also think a t3 weapon set needs to be achievable via glory as well...
Give similar gear for each thing, but slightly different. That way players can choose what they want to do to get gear and not be forced to doing something they dont like to get gear...
Right now the only way to really make AD is farm CN runs... That is really boring and if I could farm AD via PVP that would be sweet! Or if I could get a T3 weapon that wasnt pure offensive stats by PVPing... that would be sweet too..
Well atm there is nothing for me to do in the game, i already have Tower gear, i do well in pvp but after few matches i just get bored... So i dont need to run instances anymore since i dont need gear... So the only thing i can do is either make another toon and after 2 days get to 60 and get bored again... So i only stared playing this game for its pvp, and well it sucks... As a CW i one shot aloooot of people i know i have a good gear but they cant do anything that just stay hanging in the air while i drop my dagger.. Thats just stupid...even though i hated wow 40 minutes arena matches, i think i would also hate 30 seconds matches
Well atm there is nothing for me to do in the game, i already have Tower gear, i do well in pvp but after few matches i just get bored... So i dont need to run instances anymore since i dont need gear... So the only thing i can do is either make another toon and after 2 days get to 60 and get bored again... So i only stared playing this game for its pvp, and well it sucks... As a CW i one shot aloooot of people i know i have a good gear but they cant do anything that just stay hanging in the air while i drop my dagger.. Thats just stupid...even though i hated wow 40 minutes arena matches, i think i would also hate 30 seconds matches
Im 100% with this. I could always use some AD and there are some upgrades i could get, but the AD to benefit ratio/ time to benefit ratio is SO high its not really worth it. I mean with 7 GTE + BiS gear GWF AND a R7+ GF in stalwarts with ancient set.. My upgrades are just better enchants... which big woop...
So I PVP which is what I love doing anyways, but the current PVP system is SO boring after a few matches. I feel like whats the point. I que to find a GOOD match, but when I do typically some1 quits or goes afk and its not a good match anymore... I would love a match system along with something to work towards...
I feel the BIGGEST thing they could do is add a ranking/rating system... People pvp TONS just because they want a better rating or ranking...
Invent a good one, and people will play ALOT more... and PAY alot more... Hello cryptic/PWE... I said PAY so your "search alerts" should come on and flag this post!!!
Im 100% with this. I could always use some AD and there are some upgrades i could get, but the AD to benefit ratio/ time to benefit ratio is SO high its not really worth it. I mean with 7 GTE + BiS gear GWF AND a R7+ GF in stalwarts with ancient set.. My upgrades are just better enchants... which big woop...
So I PVP which is what I love doing anyways, but the current PVP system is SO boring after a few matches. I feel like whats the point. I que to find a GOOD match, but when I do typically some1 quits or goes afk and its not a good match anymore... I would love a match system along with something to work towards...
I feel the BIGGEST thing they could do is add a ranking/rating system... People pvp TONS just because they want a better rating or ranking...
Invent a good one, and people will play ALOT more... and PAY alot more... Hello cryptic/PWE... I said PAY so your "search alerts" should come on and flag this post!!!
i dont think they give a **** about what we say what they are doing is giving ppl the chance to spend $100 and get the best gear in the game, so they can pvp kick *** and then get bored and quit... also they give ppl the opportunity to create quest so they dont have to create new content, this new expansion or patch how ever u want to call it.. It looks like something they put together in 1 day... a new race and a new class.. Who the **** cares about that... Gives us better pvp.... this guys copied everything they could from tera... but they forgot the best thing about tera... Open World PvP, you could kill who ever u wanted when ever you wanted.. but thinking about it... most lvl spend their time at the city spamming /zone so there will be no one to kill except noobs...
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teleutaiosMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited July 2013
Get rid of the freaking soulforged, its so braindead as an enchantment. Ruins the whole essence of pvping
Get rid of the freaking soulforged, its so braindead as an enchantment. Ruins the whole essence of pvping
I dont even mind Sf that much honestly... Lesser is what 2 seconds? Normal is 3 seconds? Even at a greater which costs tons of AD, its 4 seconds immunity and it only happens once per minute. I dont think its that bad...
I have 1 character with SF and 1 with negation. I think negation and thunderhead or stronger than SF. SF will help you win a 1v1 but its not going to change the game much.
Im MY experiences, SF isnt going to change the tide of battle for you, all its really going to do is delay the inevitable in MOST cases...
Comments
I am bad. I haven't messed with the foundary yet (cough cough) but I would like to see some new variety (especially without exploits)
T3 rewards would appeal to non PVPers. Also Im not proposing a marketing scheme here to get pve players to pvp more, im just proposing a fix to PVP to make it more fun AND rewarding for people that do pvp…
IF they do my proposed fix, itll be whoever did the most damage to the person gets the kill, NOT whoever gets the KB. Now for that 2 min DC vs enemy fight… well if the TR comes up and can 1 shot MORE than 2 minutes of DC damage well… he frankly deserves the kill the DC will still get an assist AND they will both share points for a cap… Its fair in reality…
As for glory gear being worthless, it already is basically worthless… don’t need to wait a month…
Couldn’t agree more, but my goal with this post is to give the most bang for buck meaning fix the issues that are currently wrong before adding more game types and more maps.
if they only have so many resources to use, pick what you would rather have 1) better gameplay in pvp or 2) a new map or new type of play… Either way itll still have the same broken mechanics we have today.
So my ideas are to 1) fix TODAYs current pvp and THEN 2) create the foundary submission event where they can then add new maps…
A “King of the Hill” type map would be AWESOME! Just 1 hill, and you get points for every team member in the “zone” while it being NOT contested… meaning you only get points per second in NO other players are in there… Would be some really nice battles, although to avoid class issues the “area” would have to be fairly large so casters can be inside of it and maintain range advantage…
1) Get rid of bots. PWE doesn't hire GMs to handle bot and exploiter reports, so bots will most likely remain in this game forever.
2) Fix Greater Tenebrous Enchantment stacking. This is the main reason why broken specs like Sentinel GWF and tank GFs are able to 3-shot while CC locking their opponents. PWE and Cryptic wants Greater Tenebrous to remain overpowered as hell so they can keep selling Zen and keys to open lockboxes. So this most likely won't happen either.
3) Lockout quitters / leavers / afkers from any queue, PvP or PvE, for 1 whole hour. If they want to ruin the experience of 9 other players and waste everyone's time, then they should be punished for it severely. Most likely won't happen either because they'll get too many complaints and excuses of "I D/C'd or lagged out."
4) CC diminishing returns. It makes no sense that any MMO game that has PvP has no diminishing returns, especially in a game like Neverwinter where there are classes specifically built around crowd control: CONTROL Wizards can perma-CC players if they use the right combination of Encounters and Tab moves. GFs can keep players knocked back, up, and down for 8+ seconds, with their targets helpless to do anything about it. GWFs can knockdown enemies and stun them in time to 3-shot people. This game needed CC diminishing returns and/or immunity from launch, but we still don't have it in the game yet.
5) Get rid of mounts for 5v5 PvP. The 2 5v5 PvP maps can't support mounts since they're so small. Mounts make dying have no consequences because you can just instantly respawn, mount up, and be back at nodes 1 or 2 within 5 seconds. Faster mounts also gives an unfair advantage to those with an Epic mount compared to those without one. Seeing as how Cryptic wants to sell more Epic mounts, this change most likely won't happen either.
1) Agreed bots will always be in the game UNLESS its a zero sum type of game. If one team LOSES something if they lose, this severly diminishes bots... You dont see alot of botting in games that have zero sum games... Some win some lose...
2) Tene stacking doesnt enable some1 to 3 shot with a sent gwf, thats a misconception. It DOES let them do alot of damage and I agree the enchant doesn eed to be tweaked. But this is about PVP mechanics not class changes and enchant changes... although I agree here
3) This wont work because people will be afraid to que or much less likely to que because the punishment is severe and there is no reward to pvp... This will really just diminish the pool of players that do pvp... My ideas curtailed the incentive to leave but it has to be a punishment that means something, I think 1 hour is too strict. Plus others that are playing their "last game" of the night/day can still just leave and who cares... I dont like the 1 hour idea.
4) Yes while this would be a decent change, most MMOs also dont have as much burst damage so ifx one side and you have to fix the other. Part of classes ability to survive is CC and trying to control the battlefield.. I feel CC dim returns is a good change, again thats about class power tweaking not necessarily pvp game design.
5) Many other MMOs give incentives to mounts. Also if you are at the 3rd point, and someone is at the far point there is NO way you can make it to contest that point or prevent the cap... So that would need adjusting... Mounts arent a problem honestly. what they SHOULD do though is create a glory mount vendor to sell specific PVP only mounts so players that want that epic mount but only in pvp can farm glory for it and not have to buy it via zen or w.e...
Even with your proposed changes, it still wont fix many of the issues with pvp. Less people would play. TONS of people would QQ about all the AD they spent on tene enchants and they would be almost worthless so people would just quit (going from OP to worthless in 1 night... makes some want to quit for a while). Removing mounts will HAMSTER others off who bought epic mounts because of pvp...
Typically when balancing games its not the BEST idea to just flat out nerf things but to try and find a way to balance things instead giving players pros and cons... For instance... Just removing epic mounts, not a great idea as itll make people mad. But giving others a way to COMPETE with epic mounts but with the drawback of pvp only fixes the issue, for the most part, without making 1 person feel like they got the bad end of the deal...
Same with Tene... completely nerf them, people feel screwed over and get mad... BALANCE them, and people feel like they got a pro with their con...
My two ideas around TENE are turn it into DOT damage OR create dim returns on the enchants so each added enchant is not quite as good... So 1 greater is 3%, but if 1 procs in that 20 seconds, the second tene proc would only be like 2.5% of current HP... This hurts stacking a ton of them, reduces the damage of people that stack alot but still keeps them valuable and balanced... Although I think they need seperate timers for PVP and PVE since in PVE they are worthless... its kinda the trade off with them... I cant even PVE on my GWF Sent because he is less than worthless in pve... My price to pay...
I have no tenebs at all.
That you are a sent is a large part of it. Most of your feats are broken / do not work, or do not work as intended. The rest if you cannot take many hits, is your eq.
Tenebs do not need nerfed, they need removed from all items that are not a weapon offense slot, and left to remain in that slot only, as it is a weapon enchant shard, and should be placed as such as every other shard (for weapon/armor offense/defense slot.
epic mounts are not a waste in pvp. Actually, most threads on epic mounts in pvp say they give an unfair advantage, and they do. Much easier ability to survive and chase down. What you are really wanting, is the ability to run away, and not worry about that cash mounter catching up to you.
save up for a cash mount with ad. it is worth it.
teneb stacking does allow a sent to 3 shot a person at its most extreme, without encounters being involved. takes 7 perf tenebs to do. p.s. I wouldn't do it as a sent anyway. Its the fact that most of the feats don't work thing :P (can do the math yourself, even at a base hitpoints of 30k)
And the last thing I will say on this. Having people in my pvp party (that are not there to pvp etc, just daily, don't care etc). wont learn to play. cant learn to play. is level 60 pvp with level 40 greens on. Wont try to do anything, etc.
Some matches, your party is a punishment by itself, that you as a person that wants to win has to suffer.
Pvp isn't about entering the match and having to suffer your own team. Nor is pvp domination.
There is no justification to force someone to be punished just for queue'ing for pvp. Thus there should be no punishment for leaving a match because you were unfairly punished.
Your getting a little off topic about solo-ing pve, tene enchant balance (which again thats balancing enchants, not pvp mechanics)...
And Yes you Have to punish people for leaving, or else you will NEVER fix the PVP issue...
a great way to get gold, and competition, is an incentive to those who like to compete, and for those that are in need of gold, or use gold as a currency to buy items in game instead of off the ah from other players.
Killstealing is a problem. If you are on my team and I am fighting someone, you had better kill that person to if he is there, and our team keep pushing. If you stand there doing nothing while I finish killing the guy, I would kick you from party if I could.
[/QUOTE] 1) Agreed bots will always be in the game UNLESS its a zero sum type of game. If one team LOSES something if they lose, this severly diminishes bots... You dont see alot of botting in games that have zero sum games... Some win some lose...[/QUOTE]
You would get rid of bots, and all players, truthfully. I cant even make gold in that way, so in order to progress my character I have to do everything else, I wont be able to pvp truthfully. 63g takes a long time by farming. Also you do, its farming bots. There will just be ore of those.
[/QUOTE] 2) Tene stacking doesnt enable some1 to 3 shot with a sent gwf, thats a misconception. It DOES let them do alot of damage and I agree the enchant doesn eed to be tweaked. But this is about PVP mechanics not class changes and enchant changes... although I agree here[/QUOTE]
For calculations. 5 perf tenebs. 20% of your life as damage maximum threashhold (all proc same hit) for a gwf with 30k hitpoints only that is 6k damage. That damage cannot be mitigated. In 3 hits maximum threashold is 18k, and able to oneshot some tr's and cw's. (not counting weapon enchants, etc et al, and actual damage of the skills itself, but only the tenebs) so yes. yes any gwf can do this at maximum threshold)
Not even maximum considering their one hit is a crescendo that hits for 5k, 7 hits, 7 chances to proc all five. instantly.
and yes that would make it a one encounter kill, were not even all to proc at once.
[/QUOTE] 3) This wont work because people will be afraid to que or much less likely to que because the punishment is severe and there is no reward to pvp... This will really just diminish the pool of players that do pvp... My ideas curtailed the incentive to leave but it has to be a punishment that means something, I think 1 hour is too strict. Plus others that are playing their "last game" of the night/day can still just leave and who cares... I dont like the 1 hour idea.[/QUOTE]
I would rather be the HAMSTER that says punish the bad players, so the good people can have good competition, and not be stuck with the bad people, and get so disgusted with them that they have to leave or rage at them. etc et al.
[/QUOTE] 4) Yes while this would be a decent change, most MMOs also dont have as much burst damage so ifx one side and you have to fix the other. Part of classes ability to survive is CC and trying to control the battlefield.. I feel CC dim returns is a good change, again thats about class power tweaking not necessarily pvp game design. [/QUOTE]
I cant agree with any diminishing returns on anything at all. I am going to plow damage at that tank, and get massive diminishing returns on it to I deal no damage, while he laughs at me, nah. gear your char well.
[/QUOTE] 5) Many other MMOs give incentives to mounts. Also if you are at the 3rd point, and someone is at the far point there is NO way you can make it to contest that point or prevent the cap... So that would need adjusting... Mounts arent a problem honestly. what they SHOULD do though is create a glory mount vendor to sell specific PVP only mounts so players that want that epic mount but only in pvp can farm glory for it and not have to buy it via zen or w.e...[/QUOTE]
that map is too big for running on foot everywhere, and too ridiculous as a gf to run from one side to the other. Cash mounts do give you a good advantage, so take your ad and buy one, is my opinion on it.
[/QUOTE]Even with your proposed changes, it still wont fix many of the issues with pvp. Less people would play. TONS of people would QQ about all the AD they spent on tene enchants and they would be almost worthless so people would just quit (going from OP to worthless in 1 night... makes some want to quit for a while). Removing mounts will HAMSTER others off who bought epic mounts because of pvp... [/QUOTE]
I got my mount because it makes me go anywhere faster than on foot. I don't know about you, but doing it for pvp, am I running around the city on foot? meh. nope.
[/QUOTE] Typically when balancing games its not the BEST idea to just flat out nerf things but to try and find a way to balance things instead giving players pros and cons... For instance... Just removing epic mounts, not a great idea as itll make people mad. But giving others a way to COMPETE with epic mounts but with the drawback of pvp only fixes the issue, for the most part, without making 1 person feel like they got the bad end of the deal...[/QUOTE]
There are a lot of ways I would suggest bringing more balance to pvp. None of the things in here are it (though tenebs were brought up, having that as weapon offense enchant only as it should have been in the first place is a thing very, and sorely needed. It is the only item made by shards that is not this way, and it wasn't by design.
[/QUOTE] Same with Tene... completely nerf them, people feel screwed over and get mad... BALANCE them, and people feel like they got a pro with their con... [/QUOTE]
they do not need balanced, they need fixed to be as they should be with the other shard created enchants. Its abusing a bug to have 5 and more on a single character, when there should only at max be one. People will ***** and complain all they want, but when any at -will attack can get an extra 6k damage on it just because of enchants, something is massively wrong.
[/QUOTE] My two ideas around TENE are turn it into DOT damage OR create dim returns on the enchants so each added enchant is not quite as good... So 1 greater is 3%, but if 1 procs in that 20 seconds, the second tene proc would only be like 2.5% of current HP... This hurts stacking a ton of them, reduces the damage of people that stack alot but still keeps them valuable and balanced... Although I think they need seperate timers for PVP and PVE since in PVE they are worthless... its kinda the trade off with them... I cant even PVE on my GWF Sent because he is less than worthless in pve... My price to pay...[/QUOTE]
bad idea. the bug would be there still. No diminishing returns, just make the enchantment as it should have been in the first place.
And pve they are not worthless. That is a ridiculous amount of extra damage, and healing.
Also, even without tenebs, as I mentioned in other posts, I solo t2 dungeons except for boss fights.
when my gear is done I expect to be able to solo all t2's if I have to.
Your again missing the point... if you lose you get a -100 glory. Its easy to get +100 glory during the match making it a net zero. PVP ISNT about farming gold and never was intended to do so, its about player versus player battles, not to "farm gold"... If you made T3 pvp items attainable by glory, people will farm glory to get progression on their characters... The reason this removed bots is it WILL be hard for bots to earn >100 glory per match meaning they CANT farm consistently, but the average player can...
"For calculations. 5 perf tenebs. 20% of your life as damage maximum threashhold (all proc same hit) for a gwf with 30k hitpoints only that is 6k damage. That damage cannot be mitigated. In 3 hits maximum threashold is 18k" - you do realize there is a 20 sec CD on tene enchants so 3 "all hits" wil ltake anywhere from 41 seconds to a full minute... a full minute of pvp fighting is very rare to see and thats "perf tenes" which I havnt even seen. Most people have 6-7 greaters meaning 18-21% of life and while it is alot... again its a 20 sec CD... I play a 7 GTE Sent GWF and while it is powerful, AND I have a greater vorpal I will tell you I have NEVER 1 hit some1... YOur math is wrong here... I CAN kill them if I get alot of procs AND I use ALL three encounters AND they crit.. But when you stack Sent and GTE you have REALLY crappy crit... so....
YOur proposition to fix leavers wont fix pvp... at all... its just incentive NOT to que, not not to leave the game... people will still join and leave if they are getting stomped, they just wont pvp... there is NO incentive TO pvp so NOT being able to que for 1 hr wont really matter to most people, they will just logout or change characters or run PVE...
Currently pvp is just a time killer for those that are bored and for SOME who do premades its competition... But most games its just a time killer...
"I cant agree with any diminishing returns on anything at all. I am going to plow damage at that tank, and get massive diminishing returns on it to I deal no damage, while he laughs at me, nah. gear your char well." What are you even talking about... gearing and damaging a tank has NOTHING to do with dim returns on CC....
"that map is too big for running on foot everywhere, and too ridiculous as a gf to run from one side to the other. Cash mounts do give you a good advantage, so take your ad and buy one, is my opinion on it. " - I agree here...
"It is the only item made by shards that is not this way" Wow you ARE ignorant... Tene enchants are NOT made by shards... they also have like a 30% chance to fuse... NOT a 1% like everyother enchant... and to say it was designed to be a weapon enchant and not an offensive is just dumb... They have patched Tene a few times... if it wasnt intended... why didnt they catch it and make it as intended and NOT patch it to nerf the CD? Maybe because it WAS intended it just WASNT tested....
"bad idea. the bug would be there still." - Are you kidding... if you had dim returns it would remove people stacking tons of them... if each tene proc after the first in the 20 sec CD frame had a 20% dim return on damage... the first would be a 3% of HP, the second a 2.4% Third a 1.92 forth a 1.5.. so FOUR GREATER tene enchants would only do 8.8% of HP instead of 12... Add 5 and 6 and your at (1.2) and (.96) roughly meaning SIX GREATERS will do 11% of HP instead of 18%... thats a HUGE damage nerf....
"And pve they are not worthless." This statement REALLY shows your ignorance man... seriously... Tene damage @ 30k hp with 1 PERFECT is 4% *30k Hp = 1200 damage. It has a 20 sec CD so 1200/20 = 60 DAMAGE PER SECOND.... In CN runs I can get upwards of 60kDPS so this would boost my damage by .1% Thats HORRIBLE for an enchant when I can throw 185+ more crit which will give me around 1.5% with my greater vorpal thats almost a 2% damage increase AND its a rank 7 versus a PERFECT tene.... That makes NO sense what your saying...
"when my gear is done I expect to be able to solo all t2's if I have to." I will pay money to see you solo CN... OR most T2s for that matter... Im not talking about trash cause its easy, im talking about boss fights with TONS of adds...
As for the PVP mechanics:
1) Awarding glory not points - incentive to play even when losing
2) A "net zero" effect where the winner wins glory, losers lose glory - this fixes botting and glory swapping.
3) Leaving makes you lose DOUBLE glory - this is incentive to stay. It only hurts leavers SOME so its a proper incentive...
4) ranking system - this matches players with similar gear/skill AND provides that "competitive" pvp your talking about.
5) Give DC some glory credit if healing... This fixes the healing DCs that get no kills... It rewards them for doing their job of healing others...
6) T3 weapon set - incentive to farm glory.
7) Foundary event - gives us more pvp maps...
These are pvp mechanic changes that fix ALOT of problems... while other issues exist like mounts/enchants/class balance... this ISNT about those, its about PVP mechanics! NOT class balance - that needs to happen but thats other threads...
If these changes in how glory is awarded,matchmaking,leavers etc is fixed it will REALLY go a long way in making pvp a viable end game... the maps is a huge part of it... People get sick of the same 2 maps all the time... People get sick of KSing and DCs never being able to be rewarded for healing... People are sick of leavers/afkers... people are sick of bad matches...
THese are what need to be fixed....
my response : no. not cn. I said t2.. castle never is on a class of its own. right now I can do them with the exception of boss fights. Gimme till next weekend and I will do 1. I should have my gear set up to do it by then rather easily
In the meantime. I keep seeing more and more PVP is broken, no point in PVP. This is what should change in pvp forums.
Each time I read it, I see the same suggestions as presented in the OP here...
I know the devs are focused on new content... But PVP is half the endgame and what is keeping alot of players in this game... PLEASE look at the feedback about it on forums and make adjustments... You DONT always need new content to appease players, thats PVE... Sometimes you just need to fix things currently (like PVP) and it goes a LONG way...
Also make the pvp be different from the pve gear.. or at least better ... At the moment the pvp gear sucks compared with pve gear even for pvp
Yeah 2v2 and 3v3 would be awesome... Im not a fan with adding MORE currency... There is already SO much currency as it is... I would rather have less.. thats just me.
I dont know if I agree with the gear thing too... All that ends up happening is that you segregate the PVE and PVP players too much. WoW DEVs admitted resiliance was a horrible idea, and I have to agree. It made PVE players "outcast" to pvp and I dont really like that.
What I DO agree with is that when a 60 player looks at getting gear, he has multiple avenues to do so.
The TYPICAL end game gear is PVE. Running 5 mans, CN etc.
Most beginners use glory gear as a starting place, which is cool BUT it kinda stops there... Yes you can run GG and get coins but I think equal type of gear should be available to those who want to farm pvp or farm pve...
I like that GG provides coins for t2 pvp gear. I personally think this should ALSO be attainable via glory. I also think a t3 weapon set needs to be achievable via glory as well...
Give similar gear for each thing, but slightly different. That way players can choose what they want to do to get gear and not be forced to doing something they dont like to get gear...
Right now the only way to really make AD is farm CN runs... That is really boring and if I could farm AD via PVP that would be sweet! Or if I could get a T3 weapon that wasnt pure offensive stats by PVPing... that would be sweet too..
Im 100% with this. I could always use some AD and there are some upgrades i could get, but the AD to benefit ratio/ time to benefit ratio is SO high its not really worth it. I mean with 7 GTE + BiS gear GWF AND a R7+ GF in stalwarts with ancient set.. My upgrades are just better enchants... which big woop...
So I PVP which is what I love doing anyways, but the current PVP system is SO boring after a few matches. I feel like whats the point. I que to find a GOOD match, but when I do typically some1 quits or goes afk and its not a good match anymore... I would love a match system along with something to work towards...
I feel the BIGGEST thing they could do is add a ranking/rating system... People pvp TONS just because they want a better rating or ranking...
Invent a good one, and people will play ALOT more... and PAY alot more... Hello cryptic/PWE... I said PAY so your "search alerts" should come on and flag this post!!!
i dont think they give a **** about what we say
I dont even mind Sf that much honestly... Lesser is what 2 seconds? Normal is 3 seconds? Even at a greater which costs tons of AD, its 4 seconds immunity and it only happens once per minute. I dont think its that bad...
I have 1 character with SF and 1 with negation. I think negation and thunderhead or stronger than SF. SF will help you win a 1v1 but its not going to change the game much.
Im MY experiences, SF isnt going to change the tide of battle for you, all its really going to do is delay the inevitable in MOST cases...