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Do you people think the devs play test anything at all?

lostmarblesherelostmarbleshere Banned Users Posts: 654 Bounty Hunter
edited July 2013 in General Discussion (PC)
Do you think they play test anything at all?
Post edited by lostmarbleshere on
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  • theviking2006theviking2006 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 817 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    Yes I do, but testing between ~10-20 people is vastly different then thousands testing and some of those people actually trying to break the game.
  • ambisinisterrambisinisterr Member, Neverwinter Moderator Posts: 10,462 Community Moderator
    edited July 2013
    They most certainly do but the there's a huge difference between the comparably small in house testing and thousands of people playing and in some cases purposely trying to break the game.

    For example merely 18 Months after Halo 3 was released it was announced that players had played Halo 3 an accumulated 2,023,153,340,764 seconds. That's a massive amount of time.
    How much?

    Over 64,000 years.

    The odds are against developers because they will never be able to test the game nearly as much as players can play the game and if there is a bug, no matter how small or unlikely, they will find it merely through the laws of probability.

    Heck one time I was running through Velosk and going across the stepping stones in front of the waterfall area I got stuck between to rocks. I jumped into a crack that I have tried every time since to reproduce (hundreds of times) and still have failed to ever get wedged again.
    Just a few days ago I jumped off the rooftop next to the main staircase and got wedged between a tree and the wall (ask Aandrethegiant for pics). I have jumped off that rooftop thousands of times and have never got stuck before. Tried to jump the exact same way again...no avail.

    The devs can test for hours but they will never be able to be as thorough as the players.
  • ladymythosladymythos Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 637 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    I played a Moon Elf on, the Preview-server. Which is basically a "please bug-test this stuff for us"-server. Not only do they test stuff, but we can test stuff too before it goes live. All you have to do is sign up for it, free of charge. You can even copy a character there, or start a new one (like the Moon Elf. Though strangely, I couldn't figure out how to make a Sun Elf?)
  • satanous1satanous1 Member Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    What a silly question. Of course they test things. I'd consider this one of the better games I've played in years. Are there bugs? Sure. Name one game that doesn't have bugs/glitches.
  • uri92uri92 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    They don't test boss fights that is for sure.
    If they do test it, then it's really sad.
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  • parp12parp12 Member Posts: 642 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    One of the problems with devs testing is that they have the mindset of testing that things work as per design. Try as they might it's difficult to imagine what people may do that they're not supposed to do. Some of the things that the great unwashed do truly boggle the mind. I've come across testers that can break things other can't; I'm never quite sure what that says about them.
  • savagedeaconsavagedeacon Member Posts: 219 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    They surely do but they are at a disadvantage because they know what they are testing for and if it works like intended and there are not apparent problems they don't investigate further, they could have not the time even if they would like to. They cannot pursue issues like bugs if they don't hit them in the face while they do the main testing. Instead a player, that is not testing for something specific, if by chance meets a bug is likely to report it (but that same player can have missed ten other bugs nearby)
  • devoteoftempusdevoteoftempus Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 473 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    The question is do they actually make an honest attempt to fix known bugs/exploits/issues. Sure they test but numerous bugs/exploits/ect ect still make it to like even though numerous times the issue has been brought up or how this issues was present in previous titles.
  • cipher9nemocipher9nemo Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I think they test, but I also think their QA team is only required to reply with either: "it works" or "it doesn't work".

    So their department should be renamed to just "A" instead of "QA". ;)
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  • canukkcanukk Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    The question is do they actually make an honest attempt to fix known bugs/exploits/issues. Sure they test but numerous bugs/exploits/ect ect still make it to like even though numerous times the issue has been brought up or how this issues was present in previous titles.

    No they don't..

    because its every employees goal to make sure the customers are as unhappy as possible, so they do this by doing the worse job they possibly can so they can risk their lifelong careers and find themselves potentially out of a job with bad references and no one most likely wanting to hire them again. This allows them to get that luxury park bench they have always wanted to sleep on in about a year after they have gone bankrupt and lost everything... :p

    or

    We can realize there are priorities and some things which may be an annoyance to the gamer may not be a higher priority then something far more critical so it gets put on the back burner for a while. Also the fix may not be as simple as changing a few letters around in the code and Voila its fixed..the fix may affect other elements in the game and that takes far more time and resources to find the problem fix the problem and test the problem.
  • parp12parp12 Member Posts: 642 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    The question is do they actually make an honest attempt to fix known bugs/exploits/issues. Sure they test but numerous bugs/exploits/ect ect still make it to like even though numerous times the issue has been brought up or how this issues was present in previous titles.

    Depends on the quality of the bug/exploit report. If they can't recreate it they can't fix it. Look at the recent CW 1 shot boss report, it was missing info about a class skill which was required, which is why a few people posted saying it didn't work as described. There's also a report that using at wills with a certain feat tree (bit vague that) and class skill causes stealth to refill. I tried it as described and nothing happened. If it's not pinned down chances are some people will try it and stumble across it by luck and it's going to get into the next content patch.
  • lichlamentlichlament Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Well hopefully they can see the testing on this so called " TR fix " is as bad as you can get...
  • azlanfoxazlanfox Member Posts: 436 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    The company play testers and dev run-throughs consist of only so many man-hours on a schedule, as there are deadlines to meet.

    We, the player base, will ultimately put in far more time and look at things in some very unique ways. That is why there is a reporting system. They do need to be able to review the issue, verify and reproduce it, then narrow down what is causing it. This takes time and in some cases they may need to patch around it, as trying to fix it directly may cause a cascade of other problems.

    Exploiters, currency farmers, and their like put the same level of effort and hours into trying to find the breaks they can take advantage of as the devs do in developing the whole framework of the game. For some, it is their job to exploit, it is how they make real money. So it stands to reason they are going to find and exploit weaknesses before a tester or even a regular player notices.

    It isn't fanboy-ism to say that they test they game. It is a simple fact. They test for stability, they look for flaws and exploits, and they run through all the content. It is just that, we the players, will put vastly more time into the playing.
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  • sasheriasasheria Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I have a few friends who are programmers. Do you know how hard is it to test every aspect of it? It is pretty daunting task. Look at the bigwigs (people who have tons of money to test and some anal about like Blizzard) STILL have bugs.

    code might be "great" within their own functions (a feature) modern programming all lot of feature work together. This is where bugs may "creep" in. You have a bunch of programmer to make sure THEIR code is great, but to test the possibility of one code could break another is pretty hard.

    This is where test server comes into play. When you have thousands of players trying to "cheat" the system, that is where the true testing come into play. This is why many games have test server to see how things work together.
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  • imsmithyimsmithy Member Posts: 1,378 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    ladymythos wrote: »
    I played a Moon Elf on, the Preview-server. Which is basically a "please bug-test this stuff for us"-server. Not only do they test stuff, but we can test stuff too before it goes live. All you have to do is sign up for it, free of charge. You can even copy a character there, or start a new one (like the Moon Elf. Though strangely, I couldn't figure out how to make a Sun Elf?)

    I just got access to the preview server but I cannot see an option to copy my main from beholder over to it and I don't see the Moon Elf anywhere either , what am I doing wrong? lol
  • parp12parp12 Member Posts: 642 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    imsmithy wrote: »
    I just got access to the preview server but I cannot see an option to copy my main from beholder over to it and I don't see the Moon Elf anywhere either , what am I doing wrong? lol

    After you signed up it should have presented you with the copy page. Click here and you should get the option to copy.
  • imsmithyimsmithy Member Posts: 1,378 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    parp12 wrote: »
    After you signed up it should have presented you with the copy page. Click here and you should get the option to copy.
    Oh wow , cool , thank you so much , I had an old version of my main on the preview that I deleted due to it having bad gear compared to what I have now and thought that was why I couldn't re add it , your help is very much appreciated.
  • lostmarblesherelostmarbleshere Banned Users Posts: 654 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    Really so they tested that for the new event and not one of them reported the boxes dont show up if your inventory is full. So they tested the blue dragon final boss fight and didnt figuer out they could cheat as easy as it is right now.

    They dont fully test anything what other major flaws that are obviously never caught during so called play testing.

    Its either they do play test but never fix anything with the known issues they tested. Or they dont fully play test it.
  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Heck one time I was running through Velosk and going across the stepping stones in front of the waterfall area I got stuck between to rocks. I jumped into a crack that I have tried every time since to reproduce (hundreds of times) and still have failed to ever get wedged again.

    Funny, I think I know the exact spot you mean because I got stuck there too, and then a little while later saw someone else obviously wedged in the same spot (sent him a tell to say I had to change instances to get out and he probably would too).
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  • parp12parp12 Member Posts: 642 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Really so they tested that for the new event and not one of them reported the boxes dont show up if your inventory is full.
    If that's the sort of thing you'd think to test you'd probably have a good career as a tester. I know it wouldn't have occurred to me to test that. They probably jumped on and with a naked character and tried out the boxes. After all they would be testing the functionality of the box, not the functionality of picking an item up which is working for everything else in game.
  • brendan03usbrendan03us Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    You can never loot if your inventory is full.
  • ambisinisterrambisinisterr Member, Neverwinter Moderator Posts: 10,462 Community Moderator
    edited July 2013
    Funny, I think I know the exact spot you mean because I got stuck there too, and then a little while later saw someone else obviously wedged in the same spot (sent him a tell to say I had to change instances to get out and he probably would too).

    /stuck got me out with no problem. At least I am not the only one who has gotten stuck there...!
    But I have never been able to get myself stuck again haha.
  • symonhumbleuksymonhumbleuk Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 89
    edited July 2013
    Nope, i remember a dev video or article and they said that they do not test alot of content and they leave it to the community to figure out.
    When BWE 3 was on they said that this is why they have beta's so people can find things that they might of missed.

    I'll try and find where i saw it.
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  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    /stuck got me out with no problem. At least I am not the only one who has gotten stuck there...!
    But I have never been able to get myself stuck again haha.

    I admit I didn't try /stuck because it never works for me when I need it to, in a skirmish or foundry, and I always have to use the suicide option. When I'm stuck anywhere that changing instances is an option, I just automatically do that. In this case, you're practically at a fire already.
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  • ambisinisterrambisinisterr Member, Neverwinter Moderator Posts: 10,462 Community Moderator
    edited July 2013
    Nope, i remember a dev video or article and they said that they do not test alot of content and they leave it to the community to figure out.
    When BWE 3 was on they said that this is why they have beta's so people can find things that they might of missed.

    I'll try and find where i saw it.

    You would have to supply that link because that has never been said in anything I have seen. They test their stuff extensively but accept the players are far better at breaking the game than they are for the same reason myself and others have stated.

    More than likely you simply misinterpreted what was stated. Acknowledging the truth of the situation isn't by any means saying they do not test their own content or try to break it as much as they can in house.

    I admit I didn't try /stuck because it never works for me when I need it to, in a skirmish or foundry, and I always have to use the suicide option. When I'm stuck anywhere that changing instances is an option, I just automatically do that. In this case, you're practically at a fire already.

    /stuck gets you out of a confined location which inhibits your ability to move.
    It's not particularly good (in fact it's quite useless) at getting you out of pits or other such locations you were never intended to get to. This is because it simply tries to displace you to a nearby location (within arm's reach) and not really to move you a far distance.
    If you can't move /stuck will often work. If you are somewhere you just shouldn't have ever reached you'll have to change instances or /killme.
  • bioshrikebioshrike Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,729 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Every time I've tried /stuck, all it seemed to do was lift me up about a foot and drop me there. Regardless, even if the devs or others test the maps and content, they probably don't do the kind of exhaustive/test to failure stuff you'd see in other fields, like consumer product safety testing. Players are simply much better at picking this stuff out, and devs are notorious for playing the way they intended it to be played, instead of the "climb every wall explore every crevice" type of stuff players do.
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  • oregonizeoregonize Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    This is why you have a true Alpha and Beta process as opposed to launching the game, opening it to everyone and accepting money...Obviously several thousand true beta testers can do quite a bit more than an "in house" testing team of like 20 people...thought that went without saying. Many of the major exploits and general problems with the game were found out fairly quickly once open beta began so I think its pretty obvious they didn't do extensive testing before that point....

    The only thing I can think of is that they ran out of money and/or got some sort of corporate pressure to push the release of the game to start bringing in revenue.
  • parp12parp12 Member Posts: 642 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    If you can't move /stuck will often work. If you are somewhere you just shouldn't have ever reached you'll have to change instances or /killme.
    Another option is escape > help > request gm help > stuck > unable to progress through a mission > abort mission (some instanced missions wont give you the option to change instance)
  • the1tiggletthe1tigglet Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 1
    edited July 2013
    The problem isn't with the devs in this case it's with the reporters. If people don't report these bugs especially if they are exploits than most likely they slip thru the cracks.

    Could be worse, you could be in a game that doesn't PTR anything at all and end up with all kinds of imbalance and bug issues. This is tame trust me.

    >>cough Arenanet cough<<
  • tinkerstormtinkerstorm Member Posts: 812 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Do they play test anything at all?
    Obviously not.
This discussion has been closed.