GWF's need nerfed just as much as TR's needed it.

irk2013 · July 2013

So you go and nerf TR's.... Awesome they needed it BUT now you need to tweak GWF's. They will be the new top dog if you don't tweak their class. They should NOT be above a TR in pvp end of story.

Your balancing is nice at least you are trying, but please don't make us wait 1-2 more months for GWF to be brought back into reality.

thexavory · July 2013

Would you care to tell us what the class "order" should be in PvP sir? I missed the memo when I downloaded this game that said "TR's will be "top dog" in PvP and no classes will be above them, end of story". I missed that part, maybe you could help me understand where the other classes should be (obviously below the TR, duh).

Seriously, did you even read the HAMSTER you just wrote?

ognialo · July 2013

thexavory wrote: »

Would you care to tell us what the class "order" should be in PvP sir? I missed the memo when I downloaded this game that said "TR's will be "top dog" in PvP and no classes will be above them, end of story". I missed that part, maybe you could help me understand where the other classes should be (obviously below the TR, duh).

Seriously, did you even read the HAMSTER you just wrote?

I mean really, if players dont see the fact that Sentinel Build GWF not just will be PVP "top dogs", but currently are... umm wow.

irk2013 · July 2013

thexavory wrote: »

Would you care to tell us what the class "order" should be in PvP sir? I missed the memo when I downloaded this game that said "TR's will be "top dog" in PvP and no classes will be above them, end of story". I missed that part, maybe you could help me understand where the other classes should be (obviously below the TR, duh).

Seriously, did you even read the HAMSTER you just wrote?

Do you actually think a dps/tank class should be doing more DPS than a leather wearing DPS only class, AND have superior survivability? If so you are the biggest moron I have ever seen.

I know you don't want your precious OP GWF to be tweaked and brought back into reality, but seriously it needs to happen.

A dps only class with no other major bring to the group abilities should be doing top DPS/Damage as the TR is the ONLY class that only brings DPS with nothing else all other classes bring other things to the table.

Yet I expect you will pull something out of your *** seeing you don't want to be nerfed.

baddobb1 · July 2013

When a class gets nerfed because they can hide in the shadows and kill people, then the class that can take on 5 payers at once and still stay up needs the nerf bat used on them also.

But hey, enjoy killing GWF's with your CW's lol

aaronjf · July 2013

This is the issue trying to balance pvp in a mainly pve game.. It will never be good enough.. Wow players are still complaining about balance issues in pvp/this class is too op etc and that game is going on what, 9-10 years old or so?

This is probably the first mmo that I have played where a rogue could remain in stealth AFTER attacking. All other games that I have played might give a bonus for x seconds after leaving stealth but nothing as ridiculous as NW's perma stealth rogue.

stalesmoke · July 2013

tanking 4 people while aoe dpsing, then KD stun kill someone, then sprint away to health pot,

fun times for everyone!

kiadannah · July 2013

I want to bash peoples heads into a wall. I really do.

Sent gwf, sent path is broken. 3 feats work. the ones that are super tanky, are super tanky because of eq, not paragon path. I often take on 2 sent gwf's at once, and beat both. I am not a sent. I am however, tankier than them.

And you are horribly stupid for calling them high dps people. At wills with the feat increasing their damage, is doing 500-600 to people made of paper. That is most of their attacks. That is horridly and disgustingly low damage.

Then you have their encounters, max damage for most is 10k crit on daily, and 4-8k in damage noncrit to crit on encounters.

Quit calling them dps people, they aren't. They have utility abilities, low damage, with survivability. They are survivalists, engagers.
They have the lowest damage in the game. Healers can outdo them easily if they **** well pleased (mine does).

They also have ittle control themselves. one ability that can slow, 2 that can stun, and three that can knockdown (two of them are dailies), the rest is just damagy / utility with heaing etc.

So this comment someone made on bringing nothing to the party, that's the gwf class.. that knockdown.. is about it, except for roar (which isn't used by many at all) and flourish.

trs' bring stupid high damage. hard to target. aoe dazes, dazes, ability to fight from ranged and melee. oh yeah, they can pop hide and run to potions easier than a gwf can, if you chase the gwf down. did anyone that wanted to ***** about gwfs and getting to potions want to think on that?
---

now take a tr. Mine hits for around 50k. Ive seen as high as 100k on me in pvp from decked people. that is roughly 10 times the damage of a 'sent' gwf as stated (and it makes me giggle anyway). They can oneshot people. They can stay hidden and attack from range, and the better geared and smarter people, can kill a person outright from that ranged.
I have seen tr's attack 3 people at once and kill all of them, using only 3 skills (those same two dang decked out people).

The ability to perm stealth, that build, reduces their damage quite a bit. Also it left them a bit frail, but the tradeoff, is you had perm stealth, hard to target, frailties really didn't matter.
Now tr's are suffering that they will have to be seen.

The real complaint here is 'oh my god we can get seen easier and be attacked easier, we are ****ing broken! so what if I can do 50k+ damage with a 10k gs that I can get in a few days!! so what if I can oneshot people, or use one encounter repeatedly to kill them outright, ******!! we are horridly broken.

Quit your *****ing.

and for the gwf's again. God ****** these guys wanna survive by running to a potion with sprint! so what if I can dodge 3 times if I can still do so and pace them at the same speed! or mount up, which will easily catch up to them! I don't want to do that. I don't want to chase them down and finish them which is so easily done can be done with the 5g non cash mount mounts. Not to mention they cant even sprint half way to the potions unless they are on node 2, and then they can only sprint half way, if they had their full sprint bar! nerf those gwf's! I should have to do nothing while I beat on them but press a button over and over and have them die!!

thesipelius · July 2013

Do try to realize that you can not balance a 5 class PvP so that everyone is happy. I think the classes are great at the moment! That's because I don't really do much PvP and they work well in dungeons.. The only problem that I've seen have been the permanently stealthed rogues. In PvP I'm usually somewhere around the middle of the score table and it's quite impossible to take down DCs and GFs. Yes, DCs can take quite a bit of damage if they know what they are doing. TRs I can take down if I can control them enough but they usually hit for half of my health so I need to be careful. CWs are a pain if I can't get unstoppable up. I really think the classes are quite balanced now as it is.

GWFs really don't need nerfing. They are finally useful for dungeons and can really make a difference with AoE DPS and people are starting to notice that. I actually got invited to a DD group today!

knarsist · July 2013

I just knew that GWF would be next, the rogue nerf isn't even live yet and the PvP whiners are already moving to another target.

reagenlionel1 · July 2013

stalesmoke wrote: »

tanking 4 people while aoe dpsing, then KD stun kill someone, then sprint away to health pot,

fun times for everyone!

If 4 people are desperately trying to kill 1 person. Thats thier problem for even bothering, if the whole team is there doing it. thats just stupid on thier part.

knarsist wrote: »

I just knew that GWF would be next, the rogue nerf isn't even live yet and the PvP whiners are already moving to another target.

Thats is exactly, Exactly what I said was going to happen next. On the very same day this information came out.

thexavory · July 2013

irk2013 wrote: »

Do you actually think a dps/tank class should be doing more DPS than a leather wearing DPS only class, AND have superior survivability? If so you are the biggest moron I have ever seen.

I know you don't want your precious OP GWF to be tweaked and brought back into reality, but seriously it needs to happen.

A dps only class with no other major bring to the group abilities should be doing top DPS/Damage as the TR is the ONLY class that only brings DPS with nothing else all other classes bring other things to the table.

Yet I expect you will pull something out of your *** seeing you don't want to be nerfed.

Let's set aside the fact that you think Sentinel GWFs do more DPS than TRs.......
You still didn't tell us who should be "top dogs" in pvp. What class deserves to be the best PvP class?

The sheer ridiculousness of "They should NOT be above TR's in PvP, end of story" is enough to make anyone (anyone not playing a TR, that is) laugh their asses off.

If they nerfed GWF's tomorrow, you would make a new thread on Monday saying " GFs Need a nerf, there is no WAY they should be above TRs in PvP!" ....which by the way, they will be.

judicas · July 2013

err you have problems killing a GWF? let me guess your a new 60 trying to compete with a fully decked out GWF in rank 8+ gear. My CW eats them for breakfast, takes a while but they cant touch me. I'm more worried about the **** GF because they can block everything charge me and perma lock me. GWF poke poke poke ohh they red ignore and run... ohh they normal poke poke dead. I have seen a VERY well geared GWF take on an entire team before and destroy them, but then again looking at them they had nothing slotted where he had almost full 9's and perfects. That same team i was taking them all to half hp with 1 spell on my CW but it was funny they were all complaining about the GWF they couldnt kill.

stalesmoke · July 2013

kiadannah wrote: »

now take a tr. Mine hits for around 50k. Ive seen as high as 100k on me in pvp from decked people.!!

kiadannah wrote: »

I want to bash peoples heads into a wall. I really do

Sounds like someone has had this happen to them a few times too many.

less rage and exaggeration pLx

going to go in game and spam my 1 ability on insta cool down and 1 shot everyone over and over, because you know, every TR has BiS gearz

kiadannah · July 2013

I geared my tr in less than a week after he hit 60. wearing lvl 5 enchants. no vorpal, and that is what I am hitting. but I am also specced for highest damage / combat advantage bonuses. stipid high crit rate and power.

Typical trend for damage build tr's.

the set and enchants costed roughly 700k ad in total.

stalesmoke, your head is one that should be bashed into the wall. More than just a few times man. It isn't an exaggeration. It doesn't take much to have a good build. It takes intelligence, thought, planning, and testing. My gwf is a unique build. I had 2 gwf's beforehand that I scrapped and remade with different stats / feats etc et al. Even had one pure int pushing encounter speeds.

you come to the forums, take a build someone posted on here, made it, and get laughed at for wasting all that time on a build someone posted as a joke more than likely.
Or they made a build, tested it, tuned it, decked it out, then posted it as working.. then you came along, made the build, wearing HAMSTER, have no idea what you are doing, and are being a whiny little *******.

I decided to put a bit more rage into it, with an emphasis on you. There is no exaggeration though.

rhoric · July 2013

All you PVPers stop calling for nerfs to classes. Go play a PVP game and leave this game alone.

knarsist · July 2013

thexavory wrote: »

The sheer ridiculousness of "They should NOT be above TR's in PvP, end of story" is enough to make anyone (anyone not playing a TR, that is) laugh their asses off..

Ha! My main is a TR, and I laughed too.

The fact is, no class should be the best at PvP, but some class has to be. All the nerfs in the world won't change that.

stalesmoke · July 2013

kiadannah wrote: »

I geared my tr in less than a week after he hit 60. wearing lvl 5 enchants. no vorpal, and that is what I am hitting. but I am also specced for highest damage / combat advantage bonuses. stipid high crit rate and power.

Typical trend for damage build tr's.

the set and enchants costed roughly 700k ad in total.

stalesmoke, your head is one that should be bashed into the wall. More than just a few times man. It isn't an exaggeration. It doesn't take much to have a good build. It takes intelligence, thought, planning, and testing. My gwf is a unique build. I had 2 gwf's beforehand that I scrapped and remade with different stats / feats etc et al. Even had one pure int pushing encounter speeds.

you come to the forums, take a build someone posted on here, made it, and get laughed at for wasting all that time on a build someone posted as a joke more than likely.
Or they made a build, tested it, tuned it, decked it out, then posted it as working.. then you came along, made the build, wearing HAMSTER, have no idea what you are doing, and are being a whiny little *******.

I decided to put a bit more rage into it, with an emphasis on you. There is no exaggeration though.

Lol, assume what you want about me, but prove to me that 100k dmg

my build has no issues, I have a full time job and a 2 yr old, I play casually because I balance things in my life and have no issues destroying people that play like they have no life, Im sure I would do a lot better if I p2w or played hours every day, but you sir are just raging.

might want to edit your "bashing my head into the wall" or someone might be offended

endocin · July 2013

S;Don't pvp or grp. Just solo. Just want toons that are fun and aren't a huge pain to play. They should be able to take on the solo mobs with solo available gear. It should be fun. Don't care who's is bigger and who bought what..its a game to relax. Seems this permastealth is the issue well just fix that. Say a cool down on stealth meter instead of changing lots of things.

kiadannah · July 2013

stalesmoke wrote: »

Lol, assume what you want about me, but prove to me that 100k dmg

my build has no issues, I have a full time job and a 2 yr old, I play casually because I balance things in my life and have no issues destroying people that play like they have no life, Im sure I would do a lot better if I p2w or played hours every day, but you sir are just raging.

might want to edit your "bashing my head into the wall" or someone might be offended

I personally don't care if I offend you.

there is only two tr's that have done that to me, I don't know their names, at the time, I was quite busy being mad at tr's. theirs was a guild group, and on dragon server. as I had stated, my tr only hits 50k, but I don't have level 10 enchants, only level 5. I don't have a vorpal at all, instead of perf vorps as they had. etc
Ask around on whatever server you are in, in the pvp guilds for the damages of their tr's. it doesn't take much. ask to pvp against them they can set up matches

derpaderpist · July 2013

kiadannah wrote: »

I want to bash peoples heads into a wall. I really do.

Sent gwf, sent path is broken. 3 feats work. the ones that are super tanky, are super tanky because of eq, not paragon path. I often take on 2 sent gwf's at once, and beat both. I am not a sent. I am however, tankier than them.

And you are horribly stupid for calling them high dps people. At wills with the feat increasing their damage, is doing 500-600 to people made of paper. That is most of their attacks. That is horridly and disgustingly low damage.

Then you have their encounters, max damage for most is 10k crit on daily, and 4-8k in damage noncrit to crit on encounters.

Quit calling them dps people, they aren't. They have utility abilities, low damage, with survivability. They are survivalists, engagers.
They have the lowest damage in the game. Healers can outdo them easily if they **** well pleased (mine does).

They also have ittle control themselves. one ability that can slow, 2 that can stun, and three that can knockdown (two of them are dailies), the rest is just damagy / utility with heaing etc.

So this comment someone made on bringing nothing to the party, that's the gwf class.. that knockdown.. is about it, except for roar (which isn't used by many at all) and flourish.

trs' bring stupid high damage. hard to target. aoe dazes, dazes, ability to fight from ranged and melee. oh yeah, they can pop hide and run to potions easier than a gwf can, if you chase the gwf down. did anyone that wanted to ***** about gwfs and getting to potions want to think on that?
---

now take a tr. Mine hits for around 50k. Ive seen as high as 100k on me in pvp from decked people. that is roughly 10 times the damage of a 'sent' gwf as stated (and it makes me giggle anyway). They can oneshot people. They can stay hidden and attack from range, and the better geared and smarter people, can kill a person outright from that ranged.
I have seen tr's attack 3 people at once and kill all of them, using only 3 skills (those same two dang decked out people).

The ability to perm stealth, that build, reduces their damage quite a bit. Also it left them a bit frail, but the tradeoff, is you had perm stealth, hard to target, frailties really didn't matter.
Now tr's are suffering that they will have to be seen.

The real complaint here is 'oh my god we can get seen easier and be attacked easier, we are ****ing broken! so what if I can do 50k+ damage with a 10k gs that I can get in a few days!! so what if I can oneshot people, or use one encounter repeatedly to kill them outright, ******!! we are horridly broken.

Quit your *****ing.

and for the gwf's again. God ****** these guys wanna survive by running to a potion with sprint! so what if I can dodge 3 times if I can still do so and pace them at the same speed! or mount up, which will easily catch up to them! I don't want to do that. I don't want to chase them down and finish them which is so easily done can be done with the 5g non cash mount mounts. Not to mention they cant even sprint half way to the potions unless they are on node 2, and then they can only sprint half way, if they had their full sprint bar! nerf those gwf's! I should have to do nothing while I beat on them but press a button over and over and have them die!!

Read half of you had to say , and I have a question - Are you new to the game or something ?

stalesmoke · July 2013

kiadannah wrote: »

I personally don't care if I offend you.

there is only two tr's that have done that to me, I don't know their names, at the time, I was quite busy being mad at tr's. theirs was a guild group, and on dragon server. as I had stated, my tr only hits 50k, but I don't have level 10 enchants, only level 5. I don't have a vorpal at all, instead of perf vorps as they had. etc
Ask around on whatever server you are in, in the pvp guilds for the damages of their tr's. it doesn't take much. ask to pvp against them they can set up matches

Yes, compare p2w people in full perfect enchants and premades and tene's while your fully debuffed to the rest of the 95% of players you tool.

and you don't offend me, im more scared of a ****ty diaper than an interwebz tuff guy. im just saying mods troll the forums and they might shake their finger at you like your mom does when your in the basement for too long fapping with spamming TABTABTAB

knarsist · July 2013

stalesmoke wrote: »

and you don't offend me, im more scared of a ****ty diaper than an interwebz tuff guy. im just saying mods troll the forums and they might shake their finger at you like your mom does when your in the basement for too long fapping with spamming TABTABTAB

Let me get this straight:

You're warning him to watch out for the mods.

You're hurling around childish and base insults while doing so.

Good luck with that.

imperialmen · July 2013

GWF needs to be nerfed? Why? What? If you are a TR and think that you can one shot us just like you one shot the CWs, you are wrong. GWFs own TRs. GFs own GWFs. CW's CC+TR's DPS owns GWFs. DCs I dont know about them, but I have seen really good DCs who kite me until a team mate comes to help them. L2P. I never face a GF alone, because I know they will own me. I fight them only if another team mate is there to help me. I tank until the my team mate bursts him down. A GWF is tank+dps hybrid ie we are survivalist specialists. We ARE meant to hold off multiple enemies. But come on! I can hold off 3-4 enemies at once, but I can never kill any. Because our at-wills are ridiculous. 600-700 per hit. A TR's at-wills hit for 2k-3k something. We have to rely on encounters to kill. At-wills are a joke.

Also, people always forget this main point. Our Unstoppable gets activated, if and only if we receive heavy damage.

But one thing is always hilarious... GWF 1v1s. Lol it can go on forever. Neither GWF will easily die nor will he easily kill.

I have seen permastealth rogues just begging to be killed. They approach me from the front.... lol! The whole point of being in stealth is lost as I can seen their names.. Takedown+Indomitable+Restoring... a couple of sure strikes. Done.

ghostravyn · July 2013

Its not "nerfing" that the classes need, it's cleaner focus between the classes. Certain classes have too much goodies at their disposal.

evo404 · July 2013

kiadannah wrote: »

I personally don't care if I offend you.

there is only two tr's that have done that to me, I don't know their names, at the time, I was quite busy being mad at tr's. theirs was a guild group, and on dragon server. as I had stated, my tr only hits 50k, but I don't have level 10 enchants, only level 5. I don't have a vorpal at all, instead of perf vorps as they had. etc
Ask around on whatever server you are in, in the pvp guilds for the damages of their tr's. it doesn't take much. ask to pvp against them they can set up matches

I don't know who/what you're hitting for 50k or what you're smoking but you ain't gonna be hitting me for anywhere near that. The highest I've ever been hit for is 25-30k in many, MANY pvp matches. That was from BiS TRs with likely perfect Vorp. You... with your "lvl 5s" and "no vorpal"? Please... do you realize how ridiculous you are coming off?

copticone · July 2013

ognialo wrote: »

I mean really, if players dont see the fact that Sentinel Build GWF not just will be PVP "top dogs", but currently are... umm wow.

Sentinel GWF are absolutely NOTHING. A Destroyer GWF is alot better in PvP.

I think what you really are complaining about is stacking HP + Stacking Mitigation + 7 Greater Tenebrous. In that case Sentinel makes sense to have even more Mitigation. So you need to start a new thread and QQ about Tenebrous BS. It has NOTHING to do with GWF.

irk2013 wrote: »

Do you actually think a dps/tank class should be doing more DPS than a leather wearing DPS only class, AND have superior survivability? If so you are the biggest moron I have ever seen.

Ok all-knowing GWF expert. please describe to us exactly which Sentinel Feats are doing insane damage in PvP. Either there is a bug that I don't know about that is adding damage to Sentinels, or you are totally confused between feats and Tenebrous enchants.

baddobb1 wrote: »

When a class gets nerfed because they can hide in the shadows and kill people, then the class that can take on 5 payers at once and still stay up needs the nerf bat used on them also.

But hey, enjoy killing GWF's with your CW's lol

Pls link ONE, just ONE, video showing a non-tenebrous enchant Sentinel killing 5 players.

katbozejziemi · July 2013

Reality check, nobody cares about PvP in this game.

mercurial257 · July 2013

^true that. If it was ranked pvp, then there would be a litter more incentive. However, the annoyances of some classes are are just insane. Personally, I never come onto the forums and complain about a class. IMHO, in terms of pvp, bad players ruin the game. Its always the bad players that complain and over-exaggerate things. Bad TR that complain GF are way overpowered because they dont utilize their encounters to outplay the gf. Bad GWF's that think tr are op because they stay in the smoke bomb and dont sprint away waiting for cd's. Bad GF's that think that CW are op cause they dont realize they can block nearly every ability in the game and learn to space their abilities. Its why other classes receive over-the-top unnecessary nerfs/buffs.

People that dont understand dodge mechanics, cc immunities, knowing when not to fight, knowing when its time 2 gtfo, knowing when to go in for a kill, etc. I could make a huge post about this, but theres no point.

Are some things broken? Hell yes. Do classes need buffs/nerfs? Yes. But coming onto the forums in blue gear and not understanding game mechanics and getting owned by someone thats decked the F**ked out isnt going to help you. People saying perma stealth build is dead? I have a build thats 10x more powerful/useful than that build. I used perma stealth build just to troll people. Adapt guys.

TBH, the ONLY thing that upsets me and sometimes makes pvp not fun is full ten enchants on a char. It is a little ridiculous. Why? 1. Because i cant afford to do it also.

. 2. I seriously cant afford it.

-cheers! Good post by copticone btw
-Merc

ayroux · July 2013

kiadannah

Really nailed it... While I do think Sent GWFs in PVP WITH TENE are OP, as I play one myself. Its only OP because of the synergy with the enchants.

The damage is still REALLY lackluster and the encounters are probably the MOST difficult of any class to time.

The three commonly used are:
"takedown" - Hits for about 2-4k typically and will crit for 4-6k on average. This has the nice knock down, BUT you have to literally be almost ontop of your target to use it, if TRs/DCs/CWs dash/blink away it says "immune" although it still does damage and now we wait 12 seconds to use it again.

"Restoring Strike" - Crits for maybe 4k? This ability heals you, also has a 12s+ CD, AND you have to be pretty dang close to the target to use it...

"Flourish" - This can do decent damage 5k-8k crits. But it has a HUGE windup and is REALLY easy to dodge....

The only other commonly used is "Indom Strike" - This can crit for 10k with Greater Vorpal BUT has a HUGE windup as well... Really easy to dodge and then 12s CD..

NONE of these are lock ons like GF lunges/frontline and they all have hefty CDs so if you blink/roll away you just pwnd the encounters...

Sent GWFs are really only good for 1 thing and 1 thing only... survival... They can beat most classes in a 1v1. If they are godly gear they really cant be beat consistently in 1v1s but 2v1 them is easy... 3v1 is even easier if you are bad...

We cant do good damge to a target unless daily is up and under right conditions... and the ONLY thing that makes the spec even work AT ALL is TENE enchants..

That said, a GWF Sent Spec with TENE enchants is next to worthless in PVE... SO if you want to spend 15mil on a godly geared character FOR pvp that cant even PVE... go for it...

I have a 14k GS GF that I do PVE on and then ran out of things to do, so I made a godly GWF, which I only use for PVP now...

TRs? well.. they are godly pvp AND pve... I think the nerf was necessary, and I dont think GWFs should get a change, but TENE should get a change, which will balance BOTH GFs and GWFs that use them...

khalibus · July 2013

The only legit complaint about GWF I see is against the sent/HP/Regen/tens GWF. I play both CW and GWF in PvP and I see it like this: for the vast majority of players at the majority of levels, PvP is reasonably balanced (except DC). The problem with that particular build is that it's inverse can't be replicated by other classes. In other words it maximizes its defensive strength and ends up with 38kish HP,50% mitigation and 30% deflect, has huge healing potential and temp HP for additional soak, big Regen... Defensive paragon. To do this they sacrifice nearly all offensive stats which SHOULD be the trade off. The problem is Teneb enchants give them the ability to do good PvP damage again. Sure, it's still less than ANY other class with Tenebs, but its enough to kill another player.

A CW, even at high end, does not have that option. They can't maximize their DPS and then pick up enchants to allow them to tank reasonably well.

To me the answer is pretty simple. Add an enchant that synergizes with dps to give survivability in the way that tene does with HP to give damage. For example a % of damage you do is added as temp HP and mitigation that can go above your max. And make it not factor in teneb damage so tanks don't get the best of both worlds.

GWF's need nerfed just as much as TR's needed it.

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