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abacuser
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
I'm running out of ideas here and would like to hear how you face other classes >12k GS.
1. Rogues throw knifes and pushes in stealth. Or disable you or smoke bomb. Often they move so fast they dodge most abilities. Playing from EU it's hard to get out or cast in time. When they sneak in with lashing blade it hits me at the same time as I see them, or I can't avoid since I'm in the middle of the cast of something else. Should be impossible to do dmg from stealth IMHO.
2. I've seen GWF rage with a few seconds apart, which is impossible to handle unless you are 2-3 on them or use many dailies. Otherwise they run away in super speed and come back with full Health (Watch a lemonade stand video on youtube and you see what I mean). I normally wait until my daily is up and hope to get them at about 50% and hang them as they raise, which is hard among the best equipped.
3. GF blocks and can pretty much keep up while you try to get away. Most of them cycles proning abilities that keeps you down alot. I just try to get away since I can't find any solution against them. If I start to nuke as soon as they are in range their block is still up while they are in range even if I port.
4. Clerics are not as hard but good ones are close to impossible to kill solo.
5. My main problem with CW is that I cast entangle ASAP but from EU I guess it's too high ping so my ability often goes off (on cool down) but my target isn't hanged, while I am. Otherwise I find it's more random who gets crit or proc.
Please reply constructive. In PUGS I have gotten ~30 kills and 1-3 deaths many times but in premades I find it quite hard 1on1.
1. Rogues throw knifes and pushes in stealth. Or disable you or smoke bomb. Often they move so fast they dodge most abilities. Playing from EU it's hard to get out or cast in time. When they sneak in with lashing blade it hits me at the same time as I see them, or I can't avoid since I'm in the middle of the cast of something else. Should be impossible to do dmg from stealth IMHO.
2. I've seen GWF rage with a few seconds apart, which is impossible to handle unless you are 2-3 on them or use many dailies. Otherwise they run away in super speed and come back with full Health (Watch a lemonade stand video on youtube and you see what I mean). I normally wait until my daily is up and hope to get them at about 50% and hang them as they raise, which is hard among the best equipped.
3. GF blocks and can pretty much keep up while you try to get away. Most of them cycles proning abilities that keeps you down alot. I just try to get away since I can't find any solution against them. If I start to nuke as soon as they are in range their block is still up while they are in range even if I port.
4. Clerics are not as hard but good ones are close to impossible to kill solo.
5. My main problem with CW is that I cast entangle ASAP but from EU I guess it's too high ping so my ability often goes off (on cool down) but my target isn't hanged, while I am. Otherwise I find it's more random who gets crit or proc.
Please reply constructive. In PUGS I have gotten ~30 kills and 1-3 deaths many times but in premades I find it quite hard 1on1.
Post edited by abacuser on
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You will hear from people who own( mostly not at cap) and deluded. CW are only as good as their team. 1v1 geared vs geared you will lose far more often than not.
Sorry dont invest further, seriously just dont.
GWF Sent is OP, but simply dodge all his attacks and you will be fine.
GW something like an anticlass to CW.
Cleric healers are mostly no danger at all, simply burst down.
CW - skillcheck and pingcheck. Who first attacked or dodged control - winner.
Please post a video with a win against a normal gifted 12k+ GWF. As I see it, they are close to impossible to kill. They will hunt you down with ease even and regen faster than they get nuked. Only way I can win is with good daily while they are reckless. Even if they are substandard they still can run away faster than anyone to get a pot.
This is on the money. I have a poorly geared CW for PvP (few HP and no Tenebs, no weapon ench, no soul forged) and I still generally get the most kills and most points from either side. You have to use the right powers and at the right time. And you have to dodge a lot - at the right time. Rog, DC and mirror should be easy.
GWF is all about timing. Don't dump encounters into unstoppable and definitely don't Ice knife into it. Understand that's he's going to get unstoppable after every burst because you're doing so much damage. That's ok. Just be patient and don't get hit by takedown.
Run from a PvP GF. The bad ones should be easy once you at will their guard down.
Everything of course changes in pvp constantly, as far as a 1 vs 1 goes. But here is how "I" chose to play against other classes. Honestly not much differance in my rotations for differant class's. Other then clerics I generally dont fear getting a little closer too.
Rogues: Perma-stealth or not. CoI is key, dot them before they stealth when you have the option, and it totally takes a **** on there stealth. Generally you "should" be able to burst them down off your first CoI, if not..rinse and repeat. Always use LoS, obstacles when able, and it "is" ok to run, dodge, avoid, until CoI is back up and you get a chance to see them if they arent dead yet.
GF's/GWF's: Range range range. Get close to a good one generally your ****ed. Stay at range and dps them down. I've been using Ray of Frost lately to counter shield block, as its constant damage and burns the shield down fast. I dont waste encounters when they are blocking, unless a good opportunity arises. GWF's...Same thing, stay at range. I dont ever chase them down, unless I know they are a less experienced player. If you chase a GF, or GWF to a pot, your a fool. Not worth the time, and certainly not worth you getting killed over it.
Other cws: Range. Dodge alot, burst them down before they get you. Know what Ice Knife animation looks like, and do your best to dodge it, as its pretty easy to spot. Dont waste all 3 of your dodges on Magic missile attacks. Try and avoid the encounters.
I find alot of use in shard of the avalanche in a heavy GWF/GF group.
By sacrificing dmg, I'll put Repel in mastery, and slot Shard. Its possible to completely 100%lock down a GF when done right. GWF's sometimes, but as they can use seems like everything even while stunned/cc'd..its a role of the dice.
Cast Shard..Push at gf/gwf(if you hit them they are knocked down and prone),the shard will knock them over and roll past them. Immediately use Repel on mastery, if you are at the correct range, the repel will push them directly ontop of the shard, which at this point is about to explode, follow up with an encounter of your chosing, the shard will explode and knock them down again, then use EF and finish them off. Of course this is all in a perfect scenario, but it can and does work. So many cw's are against the shard, but when used right its ruthless.
Thats my 2cents bud, remember though.. Its PvP, there is always going to be someone better, you are going to die..sometimes alot, and continually. But you will only get better. If pvp is making you want to rage and smash your pc because you died..its probably time to stop doing pvp for awhile
That being said, I second the statement that a CW really depends on a team. Unless the enemy team is just as awful and disorganized as yours, you can rarely do your best work as a one-wizard army. And if you're going up against a team of GF and GWF? Sorry, but current class PvP balance makes this a losing fight if all other things are equal. When just one of these characters would take you a full minute of frantic teleporting and flawless play to put down without dying first, 2-5 of them have too much survivability, damage, and CC potential to be challenged by anything but a similarly constructed team.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
GWFs are perhaps the anticlass, since they have unstoppable.
as for the GFs...... ray of frost- channel spells burn the block meter fast when their frozen, entangle > combo them .... their usually dead once you can entangle them.
Clerics. PUSH them off first, most of the time the cleric is standing on her astral shield. push them off then entangle and bomb away
Only spells worth tabbing in PVP imho are.....
1. Entangling Force; specially if youre using HV set, this is also a fast way for arcane and AP regen.
2. Conduit of ICE; its not the dmg but that annoying chill + icy terrain, it can help your cleric who gets ganked all the time and if youre a thaumaturge mage........ it will help your strikers too.
3. ICY rays: self explanatory
4. Repel: so very annoyingly effective specially if you have 2 cws in a party and a cleric whos DoT dps build.
But when i see mages with ROE and Shield tabbed........ they're usually free kills for me. (both my cleric and cw)
In non-premade matches this is spot on. Sadly in the pre-made meta there is little to no reason to bring a CW or a DC.
The reason you're killing CWs with tabbed RoE is probably because they're actually doing their job right and debuffing your teammates while you sit around thinking that you're sooooo much better than them because your power choice gives you marginally higher personal DPS over something like a +15% more damage for everyone in your team. Feel like you can outDPS/out-burst an allied rogue, can you? Lol.
Best thing about RoE though is that it works on control immunes. You just have to apply it before they use their anti-control skill - most anti-control skills like Unstoppable grant immunity to control powers, but do not actually remove already existing ones. Too many times I've watched laughing as GWFs/GFs who got hit by double Enfeeble, which I used on them right before they could activate their class abilities, promptly died to an allied rogue in two hits, or used my last RoE to save my own or someone else's skin.
Bottomline, the most dangerous thing about the wizard in PvP has always been our wide assortment of control powers. We simply cannot outdamage an allied rogue (and it would be folly to try - all your debuffs which increase your personal DPS increases theirs too) nor can we outlast a good warrior. That doesn't mean we can't kill them, but hell the only reason why we can actually kill ppl 1 on 1 in the first place is thanks to our control powers. The reason the current meta is not very balanced is because our disabling control powers are not as effective as they should be in higher GS play, for various reasons, and so our own survivability is compromised. IMO if wizard stamina regen simply scaled with recovery then it would make for some very interesting high GS play.
As for GF, you don't see good GF's
Rogue dps shouldn't matter. It's all in 1 skill. He should be dead before he gets to you. If not, dodge lashing, dodge and Los until his immunity wears off and it's GG.
If you're still running tabbed enfeeblement I would HIGHLY recommend you try tabbed icy rays again. And tabbed entangle is just funny. You don't need to rely on ice knife. And it's so telegraphed and easily thwarted its not a good idea anyway.
pretty much this .
Now improve the damage of all your other powers + that all of your allies' by 15% for roughly 5 seconds. Compare to your 8k increase.
I've used every CW power, tabbed or otherwise, in PvP at some point, minus the storm spells. In fact I still switch them around regularly, depending on what I think my particular team needs. Most of the time it's tabbed RoE. Lots of rogues (as allies) and warriors (as enemies) in-game. For the record some of the people I play with are friends IRL, and I believe my information regarding the usefulness of ray (from the perspective of the people allied to you) is very reliable.
I would like to see a 5sec clip showing 32k Icy Rays on a dummy, which has very little DR in comparison to any player character.
The only possible scenario for such a high burst is if you target was extremely debuffed by virtually every possible effect from multiple classes, feats, enchant. There is no way your average CW would do anywhere near this just by tabbing Icy Rays.
As for tabbed RoE...it's pointless after the nerf. CoI is a better way to debuff. Or if you aren't thaum, run roe off tab.
Let me try my hand at this math stuff. I go in with my set up and at the start of the fight I SOLO kill a rogue in about 5 seconds. Now it's 5v4. And that doesnt even assume my team mates are smart enough to focus fire. Oh and everyone near him is debuffed. Even if tabbed roe results in a slightly higher single target debuff, it doesn't compare to aoe debuff and possibly more importantly, the debuff amount doesn't matter if the target dies regardless. The BEST advantage any class can give their team is to create a situation where you outnumber the opponent. CC can do that, but killing is even better.
Since I'm not PvP geared, I have to assume a CW focused on that should be doing somewhere between 10-30k regularly (against a debuffed soft target).
I don't think COI can be dodge so does Icy Ray which helps your team to kill opposing DC twice as fast as anything since they couldn't run/dodge properly. My Tab is forever stuck with COI because I crit my opponents 1.6-2k each hit x7 its far stronger than my Tab ROE since ROE cannot proc Weapon Enchants 7x oppose to COI. I rarely fail to kill any opposing CW and average gear rogues with one combo, I don't even need to hold down my MM or CC after I drop my ROE combo ender.
32k on Icy Rays is definitely not normal. It struggles to compete with Chill Strike under the best of conditions in terms of damage and, while significantly stronger in Tab, is usually not a more useful choice than RoE (at least in my experience). I used to run it all the time and loved that it had homing capability and would root targets, but I get more utility out of Tab RoE.
The most satisfying thing about Icy Rays is being able to catch and finish players who think they are successfully escaping you with their dodges or teleports :P
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
I'm exactly the opposite from you. I was running tabbed RoE and melting face in renegade spec. After the patch I struggled for several days and felt like I could only solo the worst of players and had no chance against either fighter.
So I switched to a thaum build. I tried tabbed roe plus CoI for double debuff but was not effective. Then I tried icy on tab, using CoI to debuff and chill strike to keep them cc when entangle is wearing off and now I'm back to melting faces again. To the point that I had top kills and score in GG with a slow mount two days ago (40 players) and frequently finish domination with 15-20 kills and top score. I'm nothing special, and was ineffective with the other power set-ups. So the only conclusion I can draw is icy in tab is really really good.
(without cat)
4/4 s.weaver
g.vorpal
3k power
3.1k crit
1.4k armor pen
renegade build,
max ice rays hit: 13K crit
average damage: 7K-10K crit
You must not be considering debuffs because I know you can do more than 13k.
cs ?
EDIT: LoL think about it maybe can when you have 4 cw with HV set as it goes below Negative value LOL!
I'm rocking HV set for the debuff but was eyeballing the GG set for the HP thinking that might be a good set to put Tenebs in for PvP. What kind of HP do you have?