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A few forum-tips from Grandma (aka "You are not as unique as you think you are")
ladymythos
Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 637 Bounty Hunter
First of all, there's the standard introduction, to give you a clue whether you should bother keep reading or not. So to start, I'm female, too close to 40 and have been an active gamer since the early 1980s. So I guess you can say I've been around for a while, and I've played a lot more games than many of you have even heard of. Back in the school days, with the Commodore 64/128 and the various Amiga's, we pirated games by the hundreds. Literally, most of us had 500+ floppy discs full of games. But those were different times, and doesn't matter now. The point is I've been around a while, and I've seen it all.
And that's pretty much the issue here. I've seen it all before. Right now, there are a lot of talk about nerfing the TR-class. The thing is, I've seen it all before in tons of other games. That's why I know it doesn't matter how much we complain about it. The TR-class will get nerfed, and so will the other classes down the line. And speaking from experience, that's not a bad thing. We need balancing. But I also know from experience that the developers do whatever they feel is right. It doesn't matter if we have twenty threads about a single topic. While the developers do read the forum, they won't respond to everything, and they don't take rage-threads seriously. Yes, those threads mean someone hates the changes, but it doesn't show how many how don't. Think about it: A game like this can easily have 100.000 active players. Even if 10.000 of those rage about the changes, they are only 10% of the player-base. How does the other 90% feel about it? Exactly. You won't know simply by reading a rage-thread or two where 10+ people posts.
But it's more serious than this. I know a lot of you like to really speak up for yourself and be heard, but I've seen... or heard... that too, countless times. After all, I've lost count on how many gaming-related forums I've been too, and every single one of them have people who are a bit louder than the rest. Which isn't a bad thing, but let's face it, it doesn't make you unique. Want to be rude, childish and immature? Trust me, I've seen all that, too. Want to be friends? Did that in many occasions.
And to top it off, here's the number one rule you really need to remember on a forum: People treat you the way you treat them. Simple as that. Want to be a jerk and complain (loudly) about everyone and everything? Go ahead, have fun. Just don't expect to be taken seriously. This again leads into another rule you should try to follow: Age doesn't matter. I know it's a clich
And that's pretty much the issue here. I've seen it all before. Right now, there are a lot of talk about nerfing the TR-class. The thing is, I've seen it all before in tons of other games. That's why I know it doesn't matter how much we complain about it. The TR-class will get nerfed, and so will the other classes down the line. And speaking from experience, that's not a bad thing. We need balancing. But I also know from experience that the developers do whatever they feel is right. It doesn't matter if we have twenty threads about a single topic. While the developers do read the forum, they won't respond to everything, and they don't take rage-threads seriously. Yes, those threads mean someone hates the changes, but it doesn't show how many how don't. Think about it: A game like this can easily have 100.000 active players. Even if 10.000 of those rage about the changes, they are only 10% of the player-base. How does the other 90% feel about it? Exactly. You won't know simply by reading a rage-thread or two where 10+ people posts.
But it's more serious than this. I know a lot of you like to really speak up for yourself and be heard, but I've seen... or heard... that too, countless times. After all, I've lost count on how many gaming-related forums I've been too, and every single one of them have people who are a bit louder than the rest. Which isn't a bad thing, but let's face it, it doesn't make you unique. Want to be rude, childish and immature? Trust me, I've seen all that, too. Want to be friends? Did that in many occasions.
And to top it off, here's the number one rule you really need to remember on a forum: People treat you the way you treat them. Simple as that. Want to be a jerk and complain (loudly) about everyone and everything? Go ahead, have fun. Just don't expect to be taken seriously. This again leads into another rule you should try to follow: Age doesn't matter. I know it's a clich
Post edited by ladymythos on
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Once more Gratz Madame, us older generations (from a grandpa here) (no pun intended to you) players tend to get forgotten in game and many times, it is all about "age experience" not gaming experience that makes all the difference. Nicely spoken.
. . . . . As you said, I've seen it all before. That's why I am not worried for the longevity of NWO. In my opinion, this is one of the best developed MMOs since UO and the Devs are on top of major issues. Some however feel their issues are more important than others, which is to be expected from the younger generations who are still experiencing how the world of MMOs work and what is "normal" or "average."
. . . . . The Cylons said it best. "This has all happened before and will happen again."
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You are absolutely right.
They are going to ruin the game and there is nothing we can do about it.
And though I have not been playing since the 80's I do base my experience off of 6+ years of MMORPG experience. I think that is plenty.
/rage
I am 34 and I find you slightly over the top. Remain neutral. Don't go into we are older generation and they are younger generation.
It is called dividing populace. No good.
On topic, yep, I agree. Things change whether we want them or not.
I survived thru many nerfs and I am still alive.
But opinions matter. Opinions should be there. People should feel they are listened to. Maybe that's why WoW is still #1.
Look at how they babysit playerbase.
I like old people
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
Your less than 40 and already a grand mother? Dang how old is your child?
This type of sentiment is why nothing ever changes. Complaining on a forum doesn't cause change either. So it makes for a heck of a situation.
glassdoor.com - Cryptic Studios Review
So well met!
Ive seen it all, and ill fully admit to being jaded. But I like to think it gives me perspective. I'm less likely to rant or rage or fly off the handle at changes. I laugh at the doom criers and haters. If for no other reason then I've seen it all before. My expectations are low, my entertainment needs are simple, I'm content with what is offered and If I find things move off to where I'm no longer enjoying it. Ill find somewhere else to go. There is really no need to ever complicate things beyond that.
PinkSugar, lvl 60 CW.
Baby Cakes, lvl 60 GWF.
*******, lvl 60 TR.
Premium Juicebox, lvl 60 CW.
Pink Exxxtacy, Ranger
There is NO pvp in Neverwinter.
Thanks for the biography. What exactly was the point of it? Couldn't you have just said "be constructive"
For the answer to you question, check my sig....
I'm 48 and been gaming online since bluewave. So, I'll keep it simple for you... Be nice, more people will respect your opinion. Be not nice ("what exactly was the point of it?") and you lose respect.
1963 here.
My point though is that there was a change and that's why all the rage threads... the slight chance the devs might see sense again. Although twice in one game may be too much to ask for.
second...I wish you were my grandma. My grandma doesn't even know how to start a microwave oven.
For the most part, I somewhat agree with a lot of things said here. That being said, it's a bit hypocritical stating "you've seen it all" and then start generalizing that rage-threads don't get things done. I wonder if it's irony that plays into the portion of the people who have actually posted countless rage threads about things being too overpowered thus having various nerfs that have come into play? Doesn't that also contradict the concept of what you're saying since the very changes stem from people who also complain/rage about said things?
Also, being someone who has "seen it all" - and mind you, I personally find this a rare sight myself - is it not possible/plausible that changes have been made because of rage posts? Keep in mind here, that a lot of rage posts - even though they're filled with rage - do yield actual information about something regarding that particular topic. For example, someone who's raging about things being overpowered explains (sometimes, not always) about why things are overpowered, but is...let's say overly enthusiastic about expressing it with emotion, but none-the-less the information is still there.
Also, the saying 'with age comes wisdom/experience' exists...however, that doesn't necessarily ring to be always true. There are countless people who hold ingenuity and intellect (albeit in a flawed manner as Man is flawed) to extract various outcomes from data, and then put them into play as if they, have that 'wisdom/experience/.' Mind you, I'm not talking about myself as I'm just a simpleton, a fool, an infinitely stupid person who holds no concept of anything, thus making this whole PoV (point of view) moot.
One last thing though, as a person with 'age/wisdom/experience' I find it awesome how you're advocating for people to stop trying to get heard. (<--Somewhat sarcastic I think. But somewhat serious as well.) Now, I'm probably misinterpreting it as you're more than likely thinking of 'stop trying to get heard with rage' but regardless, on the technicality, being Humans means to have various emotions - and in all honesty, it is very hard for a Being (Human) to suppress emotion and think logically at every turn. If such a thing were possible, wars wouldn't occur if Greed/and various other emotions could be suppressed, people wouldn't try to spare each other's emotions when it came to speaking about Truths, and so on.
I have seen what games can be (some of the best games out there are either F2P and/or survive on cash shops), and I have seen what I despise most about games completely come to pass with games I had high hopes for (World of Warcrap, primarily). I look for games that combine good graphics, gameplay and compelling story, and have the capacity for being more fun with role-playing and community. I found a lot of that in EverQuest II, had a blast with it in LOTRO (just couldn't stand the gameplay in that one) and have (so far) found it in Neverwinter. I like Neverwinter for the reason that it takes me back to my roots in Faerun, even if it is the newest edition version of the world. I have some high hopes for this game and I look forward to meeting a great many of you in game in the future.
Regretfully, the vocal majority usually wins out, the 10% that post on the forums or otherwise provide feedback are the ones that are heard, and if even 10% of that number is vocal about something long enough and loud enough, the developers will listen. That is the sad part of it all. So, to those who actually have issues with the way things are being changed, it does not hurt to be vocal about it, just make sure that you are doing so with tact, have facts to back up your opinions, and present your options in a concise and intelligent manner. Chances are, the developers will listen to you.
I'm glad to see that there are more of us that I like to refer to as "Mature Gamers" out there. Keep the faith my brethren.
Completely agree with nikitaoz. 31 here, and I'd like to add the "work" of the Mods do baffle me at times. But I digress.
To Zeb;
If this is "one of the best developed games since UO" you need to get out more, so to speak. It launched 6-12 months early, without a real endgame or reason to PvE quest post dinging 60 and barely any PvP with glaring flaws and bugs and missing content and failed additions and boast about a Foundry they nerf asunder in a game all around lacking so many features it's bordering on embarassing. It does have a well stocked IRL Cash Store though, and they scam/lie about Founders Packs and charge extra for Races in a self proclaimed DnD game.... (oh so brilliant...) What exactly are you using as comparison to even begin to show NW in a positive light worthy of "one of the best developed MMOs", besides a somewhat misguided loyalty to Cryptic or PWE on these boards? Age of Conando?
And regarding your, in light of the game's albeit short history and teased future, interesting claim that the "Devs are on top of the major issues".... If I could make a giggle sound across the forums in text, I would.
To the OP;
I get it. You're old as dirt, surrounded by kiddies and you've seen it all, and you felt the need to really grind that in over and over, yet cop out with an "age doesn't matter" in the end of the text, to try to make a point stick - while alienating the "younger" by dismissing them, in a way. Good for you. Let it aaaall out.
Same here - I've seen the births, teens to feeble old ages of so many games I've honestly lost count (not to mention gamers of all kinds) - although I needed one sentence to clarify it or use it do add some (ironic or not) unnecessary weight to a post, wich should hopefully carry it's own weight in form of solid arguments or well presented opinions.
Of course nerfs and buffs will happen in games? Of course Flavors of the Months are a given? Of course some will like them and others not? Of course people will talk, nicely or not, on forums? Of course it's easy to go down the "nothing new under the sun"-philosophy, as indeed usually nothing is. And this line of reasoning accomplishes.. what, exactly?
To just lie down and let shiet pile up without people voicing their hopefully valid concerns or constructive criticism - even in raging or whiny or annoying form - regarding something they care about, have invested in, don't just not advocate change - it actively prevents it, no matter how small a chance it is for Devs to listen to everything. That, and "voting with your wallet" is pretty much all we can do, especially against this type of Developer or PWE. And it can spark positive outlooks as well, even bring people together to overcome whatever is ailing a game. If anyone has played as many games as you claim to have you must have seen Devs listen to it's community, or players finding new ways themselves, unless you're simply too old to see that darn blurry ole screen.
Pointless ranting or raging nerf-threads (for or against) are, again obviously, pointless... to an extent. There can be gems found in alot of threads, and any Developer worth it's salt knows where the winds are blowing, what their customers want, need or dislike, from keeping an eye on the forums, while weighing that against their own designs, budgets and plans for income - and changes do happen, in form of patches, fixes, expansion additions or even rollbacks and resets, from this player originated feedback. Also I think the sheer amount (wich is insane) of negative threads and posts on this forum is near record breaking in some ways, wich also shows the current state of the game and the Developers managment of it, including it's forums and Moderators who we're not allowed to critisize openly, regardless of their actions.
Personally I hope people never stop chiming in their thoughts on games, eventhough whinefests without anything constructive tires me just as much as anyone, and the forum trolls breed like .. ehm.. basement virgins (immaculate, mostly male, conception? :P ). But if a particular thread bothers me to the point that it actually changes my mood in a negative way, or game experience, guess what...? I don't follow it. I don't engage in it. Simple as that.
Like Nikita closed with; "But opinions matter. Opinions should be there. People should feel they are listened to. Maybe that's why WoW is still #1. Look at how they babysit playerbase."
"Be constructive."
No, I like the long version better. Sometimes a little background to a point goes a long way.
It seems no matter how how old you are, your never too old to log into the forums and rain on a parade.
So let me get this straight...
1. Don't complain because nothing changes by you complaining,
2. TR's are getting nerfed,
3. They are getting nerfed because people complained about them being OP, writing rage threads all over the forums,
4. But writing rage threads about them getting nerfed will have no effect?.
Anyways, back to logic.
People write rage posts because they actually care, if they didn't, they'd just leave the game. Which is exactly what ALL 6 of my friends did. None of them posted a single post on the forums, they just left. But, you're right, we don't know how they felt, since they never posted. I can tell you from the conversations on Mumble that they wouldn't have posted about daffodils and pretty snowflakes.
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There are ways of showing your care by writing a well considered thoughtful post looking at the situation logicaly (those are the ones the devs will read and take notice of) and there are posts which are full of vitirol and hyperbole (those are the ones which get you ignored). Take you pick and don't blame the devs for making you post the second...
Like it or not (accept it or not), the devs have a vested interested in keeping this game running for as long as possible and by and large do care about the game. Changes will come, some positive and some negative... players will generally focus and obsess on the negative and take the positive for granted
A city to protect
innocents to save
"Why?" They ask "they hate you"
We're heroes it's what we do.
*patiently waiting on Paragon City*
Male...
First fantasy game I picked up... Dungeon and Dragons Tabletop, Ravenloft
AD&D'er for 20 + years now.
First MMO : Everquest 1999
14 years later, retired from Everquest to join here. Tried out a few others but stayed with Everquest through the years.
...and you tell the truth except for one thing...
Developers do listen when a large outcry is made about a proposed change. They go back to the drawing board and see on " Why " a large amount of players feel this way.
RE: 100,000 people playing Neverwinter. I find this number highly unlikely.
Oh sure, there are people who signed up and checked out the game, but we are talking day in and day out players. Which I would assume falls in the middle range of that quote.
Forum trolls will be forum trolls, they will always exist and you will always have ignorance.
But speaking your mind en masse about a proposed change that is just downright bad and not well thought out, USUALLY does have developers reconsider their proposed changes.
I have seen this in multiple games.
Edit: if your logic that writing posts about game play have no effect. You do understand this is why we are where we are in the first place right ?
Where I stand in Neverwinter I'm not sure but I do know that in the D&D world I am a youngster.
But as the OP said age doesn't matter. I was born old and I wish that wasn't true because I would have a lot more fun in my life if it wasn't true.
And I too have seen my shares of ups and downs. I have seen companies listen to their player base. I have seen companies ignore their player base. I have even see companies bold face lie and pretend to listen to their player base.
Well as the community's window to the company I can tell you they are listening. Intently.
But at some point lines have to be drawn and all I will say on that matter is that if you take nothing else from the original post is that if you're simply raging you are less likely to be heard. Throwing a temper tantrum is not the way to get your opinions heard, it's the way to get them ignored.
Nobody likes to get their toys nerfed but when it has to happen it has to happen and if you are going to fight against it do so with a calm mind and you have a much better chance to get your voice heard.
As evident in their release of free Moon Elves, and Drow + New Classes info and release dates (preferably already here), more PvP arenas/ladder/ranking/gear, raids, Race Change feature, discontinued HotN packs, bugfixes and tweaks, dungeons and bosses not all about simple adds..... oh wait.
Players and the Devs have a long list of things which have to be improved and fixed but everything takes time to complete and nothing is simple in the world of software development.
So true.
This is why smart Devs launch a full, complete game, with openly communicated plans, rough estimates and dates in designs for added content timed so people wont stand still in the capital for months or level 8 alts - instead of half a bug ridden game with a constantly growing cash shop (even during beta) covering some of the missing, over-priced essentials.
Hence, smart Devs deserve patience, as they're worth it, and show it, proof of your money being well spent, building trust from their customers. That's something wich is simple to understand, but less simple to do. Something to applaud.
Less smart Devs ignore this fact, and then we end up where we are now, with a playerbase largely starved for content, features and patience, with countless threads of this nature.
Of course, this could all change after Feywild, when they rack in even more cash from those exclusive packs - maybe theyll rethink their plans and start adding the things the players obviously crave to stay interested. Maybe theyll add Drow and a couple of classes around august or so, with a -working- raid or more dungeons with nice gear drops and varied challenges and so on.
Ehhhhhhhh, actually, it is technically possible. At 35, I married a woman of 48. She had three children and one of them had a son of some 8 months or so. Yes, my new step-daughter made me a Granpa Ed at a very young age.