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Open letter to the Devs from a paying customer
mh0ram
Member Posts: 310 Arc User
Hello!
Just to get my point across: I'm a married guy in his young 30's with a rather large amount of disposable income for my age bracket. I have purchased: Hero of the North founder pack, Guardian Founder pack & approximately another $300 in zen. Feel free to look at my character(s) as I'm sure you have the ability to verify these things. I have 34 character slots, 28 of them are currently utilized. I do not bot, exploit, cheat or steal. To sum it up, I'm your ideal customer. If you have a target demo on a white board somewhere in your office, my face should be on it.
My favorite and first class is a TR. Rather than whine, rant or give you empty threats about "quitting" and a supposed mass exodus from the game regarding this new patch note I thought I'd give you a promise I can deliver upon.
I will not spend one single additional cent on your game(s) if you continue to cater to the minority (PVP) crowd in your patches, if in the process it hurts the majority (PVE) of the gamers.
Anyone serious about PVP plays other games (League of Legends comes to mind). There is absolutely no reason for you to continue to nerf a class that is working as intended (largest amount of single target DPS) because PVP players can't come to grips with why their CW can't kill a TR in PVP.
I don't use Lurker's assault that much except on certain bosses, I use Whirlwind because it looks cooler and I hate the effects Lurker's does to my view. I do however rely on stealth, and the ability to use my at-wills from steals without coming out of stealth. I was slightly miffed when you nerfed TR the last few times. If you nerf it again this hard, you will not receive any additional funding for your company (I play several of your games) from me and I can assure you I am not alone.
Signed,
Your target demographic
Just to get my point across: I'm a married guy in his young 30's with a rather large amount of disposable income for my age bracket. I have purchased: Hero of the North founder pack, Guardian Founder pack & approximately another $300 in zen. Feel free to look at my character(s) as I'm sure you have the ability to verify these things. I have 34 character slots, 28 of them are currently utilized. I do not bot, exploit, cheat or steal. To sum it up, I'm your ideal customer. If you have a target demo on a white board somewhere in your office, my face should be on it.
My favorite and first class is a TR. Rather than whine, rant or give you empty threats about "quitting" and a supposed mass exodus from the game regarding this new patch note I thought I'd give you a promise I can deliver upon.
I will not spend one single additional cent on your game(s) if you continue to cater to the minority (PVP) crowd in your patches, if in the process it hurts the majority (PVE) of the gamers.
Anyone serious about PVP plays other games (League of Legends comes to mind). There is absolutely no reason for you to continue to nerf a class that is working as intended (largest amount of single target DPS) because PVP players can't come to grips with why their CW can't kill a TR in PVP.
I don't use Lurker's assault that much except on certain bosses, I use Whirlwind because it looks cooler and I hate the effects Lurker's does to my view. I do however rely on stealth, and the ability to use my at-wills from steals without coming out of stealth. I was slightly miffed when you nerfed TR the last few times. If you nerf it again this hard, you will not receive any additional funding for your company (I play several of your games) from me and I can assure you I am not alone.
Signed,
Your target demographic
Post edited by Unknown User on
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D&D is not about PVP. I am not saying it does not have it's place, but that place is a minor one. Lurker's Assault is the primary PVE daily for a Rogue, particularly since Shocking execution was destroyed last time. What is the point of taking the Striker and turning it into a wimp?
I am done spending money myself until they stop nerfing classes and concentrate instead on fixing all of the broken game mechanics. Do not go live with this change Devs. Leave the poor Rogue alone, we are already a poor remainder of what we once were, with this change the class will be close to useless for PVE.
There are those that will say good, and why haven't you left, but PW/Cryptic will not get anymore of my money ever. I was even planning on buying another character slot for warlocks and buying the expansion pack for 60 bucks too. They just saved me there, so I know they already lost out.
I was going to drop a ton more money on the ranger class.. but if these go live and this is their thinking on what to do with classes when people complain about them then I don't want to have my hard earned money spent on something that may be deemed useless at any time like what may be done to the money I spent on my TR.
Absolutely. It is bait and switch. We spend money on what we believe to be a viable class only to have them destroy the class once they have our funds:mad:.
Another supporter 100%.
Spent approx. $200, was planning on more, but if this hits... I'm with many others in saying, that's the end for me.
I am a bit disheartened by all of this. You know, just wanna enjoy game without all these nerfs and constant adjustments.
Currently playing Tera with it's gorgeous graphics and characters. At least, I know that it's quiet there and will not have to relearn my class every single month.
I am also sick of pandering to vocal minorities in these games. PvE games with PvP tacked on should never be balanced because someone in PvP needs to learn to play - you may have seen people saying they dont have trouble with TR's in PvP, you just need to know how to counter them. Its the people who want to go in and faceroll, and end up being killed my TR that come QQing that there needs to be a nerf. These are probably the same people who are already trying to exploit something in there class that lets them one shot others.
The TR is there for burst damage - which is kinda handy in a dungeon - we really dont want to be spending hours in a 5 person dungeon - I might expect hours to do a 25 person raid, but not a simple dungeon. Nerfing the PvE element now and listening to the whiners means you may as well go revisit the ranger, and not bother releasing it because within weeks you will be nerfing it the same way as the same whiners will have a problem with another spiker that is killing them.
If the issue is infinite stealth, put a max duration on it so it cant be maintained infinitely. You should not be removing the damage that is a defining element of the D&D class. To be honest at that point WotC should be revoking the license to even use the Trademarks.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?419161-Alrenative-to-TR-nerf-not-yet-explored-See-inside
It's too late for me to stop spending money for my ranger, as I had anticipated it coming out with launch. I already have two additional Ioun Stones sitting in my bank for when new classes are released. I suppose I can now toss one on my CW, and wait for ranger for the additional one to be used. Beyond that, I'm done giving $$$ to the devs if they keep up their HAMSTER policy of catering to the minority while hurting the majority in the process.
+1
You aren't alone. No sane person is going to continue investing real money into a TR after this nerf, and TR mains are a pretty big slice of the player base. In fact, it gives all classes a reason to think twice. When your game is based on microtransactions, nerfing the things people are spending money on into the ground is going to have consequences. Nerfs are sometimes necessary, but this one isn't, and even if it was this is far too severe and destroys the class in PvE while not even addressing the "problem" in PvP. They could not have done a better job of making people think twice before spending more money on this game.
As a veteran D&D player I think the Rogue has been doing good so far. Sure it hurts to have a rogue kill you with one hit in PvP, but if my GWF or my wife's GF has time to catch a Rogue and land a few hits, that Rogue's done like supper. We get to yell when a Rogue kills us and we get to cheer when we kill one. And that's a good thing.
My alt is a Rogue and he hits hard but will get mashed to a pulp if I jump into the battle as if I were using my GWF. That's a good thing. Feels like D&D.
Do not nerf Rogues more than what you have already. I've read more complaints about this nerfing than people saying it's a good change. And usually whiners are people who just lack skill or are terrible team players.
I don't PVP at all on any of my 4 chars (GF, TR, CW, and DC.) I don't like it. I'm not good at it and not interested in being good at it.
I was already having trouble in the top dungeons with my TR. Go ahead, tell me I need to L2P, and I am sure you will be correct.
But I had absolutely NO trouble in -any- of the solo content, or in any of the foundries I've played. My TR has had an easier time in the Foundry at lev 60 than any of my other chars. Largely due to stealth and its bonuses. He is not a Stealth build, he is somewhere between Luna's build and Metzli's. For whatever reason, I have an easy time in the T2's with my DC and with my GF. I haven't really tried my CW. But my Rogue just couldn't pull his weight, or so it seemed to me.
Anyway.. I spent an incredible amount of $$ trying to get him working better with respecs, purchased gear, a stone, and Enchants.. and now this. Kinda just makes me want to give up. Anyway.. It sort of feels like whatever I do is going to be cancelled out by nerfs put in place for PvP.
BTW- I like the idea presented in the link above.. especially since I have always sort of thought that anyway. If I was going to PvP, I'd want to play vs. a player, not his gear. I think it would be great if PvP required a certain type of gear only. But I think they would have to give freebie inventory slots that can hold nothing but the extra PvP gear to make up for the extra that those people would have to carry.
Enjoy the game all. I'm gonna take a little break, I think.. will for now just be doing professions and my invocations. ..And watch how things evolve.
Roland Mac Sheonin GF | Tarron Direheart SW |
Congratz? It is great that you married a rich dude and spend his money on your games but your only one person and with the 28 different characters I am sure either you can continue playing with another one buying all your needed gear off the AH with your surplus cash or quit because your burned out on Neverwinter.
Normally I wouldn't go for this sort of answer, because it addresses the OP's personal situation rather than his complaints.
But I think you've hit on an important point here: if you're gonna spend large sums of money on an MMO, then you'd best be sure you're happy with spending that money on a game that is always subject to change. In the OP's case, he says that he can afford to spend a lot without concern, but then he expresses a great deal of concern about the future of the product in which he's invested.
The bottom line is that no matter how rich you are, you always run the risk of buyer's remorse. When you're buying virtual goods in an MMO that goes double. Criticize Cryptic's decisions as you like, but don't assume that because you had a few reckless moments with your credit card that you're entitled to have the game remain unchanged (or, more appropriately, that you have a right to keep all of the things you want unchanged, unchanged). It's gonna change. In two months, or six months, or a year, Rogues might even get buffed. And Rogues certainly aren't the only class that'll ever get nerfed. It's early yet.
None of the above is new or even particularly interesting. The internet is full of anonymous ultimatums concerning this-or-that nerf of this-or-that-class in this-or-that game. What's different here is that most (traditionally subscription-model) MMOs didn't give you the opportunity to spend several hundred dollars in the first month after launch. Neverwinter does. So if you have thrown enormous sums of money at the game, you might understandably assume that you have standing to demand the status quo. But you don't. Cryptic/PWE like your money, and they'd be happy to keep taking it if you stick around, but if you're the type of person who's gonna throw a hissy fit at the first major balance change, then they've probably gotten all they're likely to get from you.
TL;DR: Once you've spent that kind of money, you're only cheating yourself if you rage quit. PWE ain't gonna lose any sleep over it.
We sound very similar ( except age, 37 here )...and I Also co-sign this letter with my support except I will take my business elsewhere.
I mean they put out freaking 3-4 TIMES the dps of max dps spec GF, or over double that of a GWF in single target. They should be the best single target, but not by such an insane margin.
I know its hard to believe for most, as optimization to this level takes some extreme levels of skill and gear so it takes time to see it. But i've seen it happen all the time with those ive run with..
eg: Karrundax with a top geared rogue in lurkers: Nearly breaks his AI he dies so fast, ~15 seconds hes to the next phase and never gets to even summon adds. 2 such rogues: ~7-10 seconds AI complete broken. 3 such rogues: He doesn't even get a fire breath off.
vs taking GF or GWFs instead:
Entirely different fight of ~40-120 seconds+: During which you have to deal with a huge amount of trash, you will fail if you don't have a strong player or 2 set up to tank/cc it. (Rogue heavy parties can ignore it due to crazy dps)
It's to the point where the best players that want to complete content the most efficient don't enjoy playing there mains if they are GF or GWF, because the freakin boss fights end up taking 3-5 times as long so are all forced to play rogues. That along with far higher chances of wiping due to fatigue, is not balanced.
But yea I agree nerfing rogues or anyone else is never a smart solution.
Buff, don't nerf. Buff the other melee classes damage up to be around 50-75% behind rogues in single target, rather than the current rather insane 100%-300%x. Clerics could get some damage buffs in at wills and certain encounters too, tho there dailies are already some of the strongest in the game too. (plus they fill a critical role of damage-prevention - I wouldn't say heals since there healing is fairly limited, and potions are so op they are all the healing needed, but clerics defensive abilities are plain required for some of the harder content.)
CWs don't need buffs in damage since they are straight critical anyways due to the game design of plain requiring CC to win (which is a good thing overall). They fill a critical role, thus are balanced, even if they fall behind in damage.
If the fear of content becoming too easy due to this, just buff the bosses hp up a bit to compensate. Buffs are always taken far easier by the community then nerfs, even when its to bosses.
-Epic Dread Vault Crushed.
Characters (Dragon): Axer (60 Guardian, Leader of Crush It!), Controller (60 Wizard), Warlocker (60 Warlock)
It would be far better to try to convince them that such a change in rogues would be detrimental by providing convincing arguments preferably backed up with some data, or to present ways in which the class could be changed instead, or anything else constructive.
But they're doing exactly what they need to do do balance PvP.
PvP is about homogenization. A class that is designed to do 20-30% more single target damage then any other class in game, and do most of it from burst in stealth DOES NOT WORK IN PVP. it is BROKEN. PvP is all about single target damage and burst.
Do you know why it works in PvE though? because this was designed as a PvE game.
PvP HOMOGENIZES classes and skills.
PvE ALLOWS for differences. a single target burster like the TR can exist in a PvE game and have amazing purpose. in a PVP game it's simply broke. So if you really want to have your amazing single target burster...stop playing PvP. simple as that. they just need to take it out of the game.
If you want PvP in the game, then be prepared for the nerf rollbat. because PvP is about balance and homogenization, not interesting and dynamic class design.
And before you get too put off, I don't hate PvP...and I actually like the TR as it is...the nerfs irritate me. but if PvP remains in this game....it WILL happen. because the TR was not designed as a balanced PvP class.
No... what they need to do is to have different combat mechanics for PVP and for PVE, so that changes to one don't affect the other.
Then they can give each class the same abilities with only a different effect. A mage casting magic missile would be the same as a rogue throwing a knife or a guardian fighter throwing an axe. And then everything becomes homogeneous.
The problem is do the PVP customers are enough to afford for the second combat mechanics development team? Do they buy companions and whatever fluffy aesthetic items existing on the cash shop?
Besides it sux getting all these random nerfs to most classes because off pvp.
Most off the nerfs remove the classes more from d&d rulebook, making theory crafting special builds kind off impossible.
I would rather there are created more classes / paragon paths, than waisted anymore time on pvp .
Just my oppinion on pvp & the nerfs.
In PvE you have the cleric as support/healer or "leader" class. Although, the cleric is quite usefull and needed for a sucessfull group, he is not supposed to heal all incoming damage. Players are supposed to dodge burst attacks or area attacks from boss mobs. They are supposed to drink potions if they take burst damage. The cleric can only migrate constant damage, but not burst.
No, in PvP you have a burst damage dealer aka rogue. Normal heal potions that do burst healing in PvE don't work. The only healer class cannot buffer burst damage very well, escpacially if the rogue strikes from stealth so there is no time to place defensive spells as divine armor, hollowed ground or astral shield.
Of course, that cannot work.
Where is the problem? The dodge and potions mechanics - the game design itself is a patchwork that don't realy harmonize together.
The dodge, potion and healing mechanics are not basing on the original D&D concept but where placed into the game from cryptic. The mechanics prevent that clerics have access to burst healing, because if any player can dodge, drink potions and have a cleric that can burst heal and migrate damage much better, the boss fights would be quite easy.
The cleric as leader class is meant to counter the damage of the rogue as striker class. That is currently not archived because the damage output of a rogue is mutiple times higher than the healing output of a cleric. While the rogue can do burst damage, the cleric only can mostly heal over time slowly.
I think you read it wrong
They don't need to do that, but it would certainly make it possible to balance each activity in a different way. Perhaps they aren't fond of doing so however, wanting one set of abilities for both for whatever reason.
Frankly, reducing the stack of Cloud of Steel and causing Stealth to drain slightly faster when At-Wills are used should be sufficient to discourage the worst of the imbalance. While no one really enjoys being downed in one or two strikes, it's easy to forget that TRs are very limited and vulnerable without Stealth tactics.
I want to see some effort at balancing in PvP, but I also don't want to see a wave of rage-quitting TRs. The only thing less desirable than fighting top-geared perma-stealthed TRs with ridiculous ranged At-Will damage potential is having no TRs to fight at all.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
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