I would love to see the devs complete CN in 1 hour 30 minutes with 9200 GS's
Takes 15 just to run from start to finish with no adds at all
It takes us around 30 minutes to clear CN, killing all bosses the reg way. We use mass aoe mob killing, and shorcuts of course. They apparently put up some invisible walls that prevent some of the regular shorcuts from being used now, but missed secondary ones at the same time. There has been *NO* i repeat *NO* effect to CN farming at all with this patch, except for the **** groups that could not kill the 1st or 3rd bosses legitimately.
Yea man, well we tried 2TR A DC and 2 CW, and that failed. 3 CW 1 TR and a DC, failed, so guess next time around we will run Gf 2 CW, TR & DC. Maybe that will be easier on us. We cleared the dungeon with 3 CW but was rough rough rough. All I want to point out, is we as a guild have the GS and coordination and spare gold to burn to figure out the best strat for these. But 90% of the PVE population doesnt have any of these things, considering the click to que system. I feel massive rage quiting in the future. Its not a matter of learning how to play the dungeons. Its a matter of have the perfect team composition, with perfect coordination, or wipe on adds everytime, and / or burn 15-30G on a boss. For a game with an option to Pug into dungeons, that is fail. You are right about one thing, prices are going up.
There are easier dungeons, like Frozen heart (legit run), Spider, pirate, spellplague... Easier only because strats exist. I don't see a "massive ragequit" happening fbecause this one is "new" (at least the first two bosses are for most people). Players found starts in two weeks to do all of the dungeons. Today, you're angry because you failed, but those bosses aren't a big deal once you know what to do to kill them. Let's talk about it again in two weeks. Give it time.
By the way, they removed half of the adds in frozen heart. The effects are a bit silly, now, it's harder to maintain CC. Not enough adds to charge the daily power makes the CWs job quite painful. I think i'll keep playing my DC for now, until they add more adds back. The fact is that boss fights are a lot easier with a ****ton of adds just to charge singularity and then shield them. Now, there are downtimes and adds start wandering in arenas...
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rapticorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,078Arc User
I would love to see the devs complete CN in 1 hour 30 minutes with 9200 GS's
Actually if I remember one of the interviews with them they design the encounters so that THEY can't beat them because they think average players are better and more creative. Not an exact quote but that was the general gist.
So in other words.. Don't hold your breath waiting for that.
It takes us around 30 minutes to clear CN, killing all bosses the reg way. We use mass aoe mob killing, and shorcuts of course. They apparently put up some invisible walls that prevent some of the regular shorcuts from being used now, but missed secondary ones at the same time. There has been *NO* i repeat *NO* effect to CN farming at all with this patch, except for the **** groups that could not kill the 1st or 3rd bosses legitimately.
Don't even start that argument. every single pug on every server, every single guild, been using same shortcuts in a whole ton of instances for months now. a 9200 GS group of experienced players could complete CN easily in well under an hour and a half (without shorcuts). All I am saying was your hour and a half 9200 GS CN group post, was totally incorrect.
And BTW, CN isnt about gearscore, its about skill level and having 2 good CW's and a good DC. Once you have your CW's, they can carry just about anything else no matter how bad.
I'm mostly casual that play with my casual players and I absolutely agree with you...
The people that exploited the game up to this moment will still be able to do it, and the harder it gets it only makes casual or random groups impossible to finish content and give up in frustration.
I'm hoping for a really good update on those dungeons difficulty at least once the new content is available... well I'm "hoping".
Actually if I remember one of the interviews with them they design the encounters so that THEY can't beat them because they think average players are better and more creative. Not an exact quote but that was the general gist.
So in other words.. Don't hold your breath waiting for that.
thats confidence inspiring.
"we designed a game that we are terrible at and therefore we are totally trustworthy with the reigns on class and gameplay balance"
Rapticor you give me hope! I really, really hope you're right! I still think it's a miserable thing to do though, no matter if it's dungeon bosses or quest bosses. People shouldn't be punished for using strategy in a game.
Dungeons and Dragons Online (the only real D&D MMO) is the only game I can think of that actually allows and encourages strategy. They even said during development that standing on a stack of boxes and sniping a melee opponent is not an exploit but simply an intelligent use of strategy. Sadly that is considered cheating in most games. Apparently when cops want to apprehend suspects that are shooting at them they need to walk out into the open without any cover if they want to shoot back. Anything else would be an exploit.
My guild always does content legit with no exploits so we didn't even notice the change. We did Karrun today and blew through it as usual. I am VERY VERY happy that Cryptic finally fixed this and now people have to actually do dungeons and encounters as designed and intended.
LOL, if you are that use to the exploits than go home! I was able to do things legit from day one, and the so called "change" that you keep referring to was necessary and will most likely stay so get use to it.
My guild always does content legit with no exploits so we didn't even notice the change. We did Karrun today and blew through it as usual. I am VERY VERY happy that Cryptic finally fixed this and now people have to actually do dungeons and encounters as designed and intended.
Cheers
Zhylaw GL THHD
Just out of curiosity....did you run it with a tank?
Ha ha there's a strat for both first bosses in karrundax. You need a good tank though. And 3 cws is a terrible team layout for anything but pirates anyway. Now, people have to learn to play. What a pity...
Will keep strats for myself for now. The prices of gloves are going to rise.
You need to try it on Epic difficulty silly kitten
My guild always does content legit with no exploits so we didn't even notice the change. We did Karrun today and blew through it as usual. I am VERY VERY happy that Cryptic finally fixed this and now people have to actually do dungeons and encounters as designed and intended.
Cheers
Zhylaw GL THHD
Plz dont troll the threads mature ppl are trying to have discussions than you...
I dunno. We did most of the dungeons that matter today after patch, still the same 'tank and spank' tactic. Pretty easy for premade, but for braindead pugs it's proly a freaking nightmare to kill even first bosses before end boss in Caru\FH\Spell etc.
Carnage TR Dragon shard - retired? hell yea it's retired along with Nevewinter
Seze - Rogue - Necropolis - RIFT
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derpaderpistMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
LOL your ignorance is showing! This change has no affect on CN farming.
As I've stated many times and will continue to say this.
"The more they patch dungeons the harder it is for PUGs to complete them. End Game guilds will continue to farm the dungeons as we are already BiS / Rank 8+ geared. The changes just means more profit for us and less profit for new players."
So you just admited that you're using exploits to beat the end game ?
" We live in an age of the cheaply made, disposable, high priced junk. " - theunwarshed
My guild always does content legit with no exploits so we didn't even notice the change. We did Karrun today and blew through it as usual. I am VERY VERY happy that Cryptic finally fixed this and now people have to actually do dungeons and encounters as designed and intended.
Cheers
Zhylaw GL THHD
I am not trolling I am dead serious. My guild actually is founded on the concept of doing no skips. I am also a twitch broadcaster and you can go and watch my VOD from today and see the entire karrun run which was smooth as butter.
I am not trolling I am dead serious. My guild actually is founded on the concept of doing no skips. I am also a twitch broadcaster and you can go and watch my VOD from today and see the entire karrun run which was smooth as butter.
Twitch.tv/Zhylaw
you you post the link for the actual video? I would love to see how this works.
I've come to hate patch days! Every new patch seems to make the game more and more unfriendly to solo and casual players.
I have never considered 'luring a boss from his lair' as exploitative in any way, shape or form. It was a smart strategy! How the devil are solo players supposed to deal with bosses now?
Cryptic you are killing this game for me, one nail at a time!
You are no doubt a subersive that try to undermine the very core of this game. To use a smart strategy means, oh the horror, use one own brains,and if a player use his brains he no longer buys overpriced packs nor other useful things to win the hard bosses like the resurection scrolls, so every use of the brain in game has to be discouraged. The very survival of the game depends on it ;)
gdante7111111Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 227Arc User
edited July 2013
I will say this again, I am waiting for eso and the other mmos and arpg's coming out. Then I am gone, I will come back to check if the changes that needed to be changed first have been made. If not I wont waste my time, I am just here to waste time. like I said before and said already above, when eso and the other mmos and arpg's come out I am gone.
These dungeon's are easy, you just need a GF that know's how and when to kite or tank. A gwf that knows how to tank if you end up in a pug with gwf only. Especially a cleric that builds AP up quickly or know's how to heal. Most pug's fail because they end up having too many of one class i.e two GWf or two TR's. The only class that should double is CW, or DC if they can AP build and keep hallowed ground ready for every encounter.
Boy, you have this all figured out... I have a grand idea, from now on, ALL party making will pass through YOU, that way you can set up perfect parties and everyone can enjoy the game.
Until then, how about the devs make the game so ANY party can do the content, albeit some have a harder time then others, but it should be "doable" by ANY combination of toons, save for maybe 5 DCs... that would be rough I think.
but let Cryptic know you are the solution to fair pug creation.
5 stealth TR's can do Pirate and most epic content. I was not implying that any make-up should not be able to do these dungeon. Rather, pug's need to be smart about what class they bring for specific content since it is easier with the right group.
5 would be easy mode if they know what they are doing. My point is that bringing 1 DC and 4 TR's would not be a smooth run.
The DC would be the target of all the aggro while the tr's stealth, so it would make sense to just go 5 tr's.
Therefore, using common sense and setting up the right party for specific content makes all these dungeons that much easier without the need for exploits.
To all the players saying that the adds need nerfed or w/e since the newest patch need to get their instincts in-check. I ran CN 4/4 with me(GWF) and a proDC then with 2 CW's and 1 TR that had never seen the walls of Castle Never. We got through past the first 3 bosses with relative ease, but I will admit failed on the 4th boss. Just saying this for the guilds that say its too hard since only 4 guys had vent and a pubby. The random CW and the guild CW didn't have perfect Singularity's timed but its by far from impossible to dealing with the adds. This Karrundax talk is just BullShivick when has that dungeon ever been hard...
[SIGPIC][/sigpic] GWF Mistress Roxxy and DC Lady Valentine both @loverboyusa
To all the players saying that the adds need nerfed or w/e since the newest patch need to get their instincts in-check. I ran CN 4/4 with me(GWF) and a proDC then with 2 CW's and 1 TR that had never seen the walls of Castle Never. We got through past the first 3 bosses with relative ease, but I will admit failed on the 4th boss. Just saying this for the guilds that say its too hard since only 4 guys had vent and a pubby. The random CW and the guild CW didn't have perfect Singularity's timed but its by far from impossible to dealing with the adds. This Karrundax talk is just BullShivick when has that dungeon ever been hard...
To be fair, CN Boss Kiting has always been to save time, not to make it hugely easier.
And Karru has always been super easy because of the massive shortcuts, and the fact you kite two thirds of the Bosses to make them a lot easier. It's probably still fairly easy, but it's harder now.
And it does also mean I'm never ever using a PUG. It seems they're trying harder and harder to force you to play with specific classes, and then doing nothing to ensure that the Queue system actually places you with those classes.
Comments
It takes us around 30 minutes to clear CN, killing all bosses the reg way. We use mass aoe mob killing, and shorcuts of course. They apparently put up some invisible walls that prevent some of the regular shorcuts from being used now, but missed secondary ones at the same time. There has been *NO* i repeat *NO* effect to CN farming at all with this patch, except for the **** groups that could not kill the 1st or 3rd bosses legitimately.
There are easier dungeons, like Frozen heart (legit run), Spider, pirate, spellplague... Easier only because strats exist. I don't see a "massive ragequit" happening fbecause this one is "new" (at least the first two bosses are for most people). Players found starts in two weeks to do all of the dungeons. Today, you're angry because you failed, but those bosses aren't a big deal once you know what to do to kill them. Let's talk about it again in two weeks. Give it time.
By the way, they removed half of the adds in frozen heart. The effects are a bit silly, now, it's harder to maintain CC. Not enough adds to charge the daily power makes the CWs job quite painful. I think i'll keep playing my DC for now, until they add more adds back. The fact is that boss fights are a lot easier with a ****ton of adds just to charge singularity and then shield them. Now, there are downtimes and adds start wandering in arenas...
Actually if I remember one of the interviews with them they design the encounters so that THEY can't beat them because they think average players are better and more creative. Not an exact quote but that was the general gist.
So in other words.. Don't hold your breath waiting for that.
those "shortcuts" you use are considered exploits
Don't even start that argument. every single pug on every server, every single guild, been using same shortcuts in a whole ton of instances for months now. a 9200 GS group of experienced players could complete CN easily in well under an hour and a half (without shorcuts). All I am saying was your hour and a half 9200 GS CN group post, was totally incorrect.
And BTW, CN isnt about gearscore, its about skill level and having 2 good CW's and a good DC. Once you have your CW's, they can carry just about anything else no matter how bad.
The people that exploited the game up to this moment will still be able to do it, and the harder it gets it only makes casual or random groups impossible to finish content and give up in frustration.
I'm hoping for a really good update on those dungeons difficulty at least once the new content is available... well I'm "hoping".
thats confidence inspiring.
"we designed a game that we are terrible at and therefore we are totally trustworthy with the reigns on class and gameplay balance"
Dungeons and Dragons Online (the only real D&D MMO) is the only game I can think of that actually allows and encourages strategy. They even said during development that standing on a stack of boxes and sniping a melee opponent is not an exploit but simply an intelligent use of strategy. Sadly that is considered cheating in most games. Apparently when cops want to apprehend suspects that are shooting at them they need to walk out into the open without any cover if they want to shoot back. Anything else would be an exploit.
Cheers
Zhylaw GL THHD
Just out of curiosity....did you run it with a tank?
You need to try it on Epic difficulty silly kitten
Plz dont troll the threads mature ppl are trying to have discussions than you...
It was epic. There are strats. For real. If you don't have them yet it doesn't mean they don't exist. Just turn your brain on when you queue for this.
Seze - Rogue - Necropolis -
So you just admited that you're using exploits to beat the end game ?
I am not trolling I am dead serious. My guild actually is founded on the concept of doing no skips. I am also a twitch broadcaster and you can go and watch my VOD from today and see the entire karrun run which was smooth as butter.
Twitch.tv/Zhylaw
Edit: Adding in direct VOD link for clarity
http://www.twitch.tv/zhylaw/b/432406814
go to 1:45:00 to begin the dungeon and enjoy
you you post the link for the actual video? I would love to see how this works.
You could even triple with CW's.
short and to the point well said
http://www.twitch.tv/zhylaw/b/432406814
go to 1:45:00 to begin the dungeon and enjoy
5 stealth TR's can do Pirate and most epic content. I was not implying that any make-up should not be able to do these dungeon. Rather, pug's need to be smart about what class they bring for specific content since it is easier with the right group.
Here is a TR soloing Pirate:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlKJU1tRQl4
5 would be easy mode if they know what they are doing. My point is that bringing 1 DC and 4 TR's would not be a smooth run.
The DC would be the target of all the aggro while the tr's stealth, so it would make sense to just go 5 tr's.
Therefore, using common sense and setting up the right party for specific content makes all these dungeons that much easier without the need for exploits.
GWF Mistress Roxxy and DC Lady Valentine both @loverboyusa
To be fair, CN Boss Kiting has always been to save time, not to make it hugely easier.
And Karru has always been super easy because of the massive shortcuts, and the fact you kite two thirds of the Bosses to make them a lot easier. It's probably still fairly easy, but it's harder now.
And it does also mean I'm never ever using a PUG. It seems they're trying harder and harder to force you to play with specific classes, and then doing nothing to ensure that the Queue system actually places you with those classes.