As someone who has played League of Legends since the Beta, I'm no stranger to balancing issues. That being said, some parts of Neverwinter PvP make me think that the developers really phoned in the Arena PvP in this game. I'm not sure if these are bugs or features of the game at this point, but I'm going to list some of the discrepancies I have noticed.
-The Control Wizard nearly has more mobility than a rogue. The wizard's teleport only costs a third of a stamina bar instead of half, in addition it is faster and longer ranged than the rogue's dodge ability. Considering that rogues are assassins that rely on mobility and positioning and wizards are designed to sit at the back and spam spells this seems a little counter intuitive.
-Astral Shield. This first came to my attention when I was playing my rogue and the enemy cleric was 1v4 against our entire team and winning. Not only does it make a cleric as tanky as a guardian fighter, but when added to other cleric abilities the cleric becomes a health tank healing for more than he can be damaged. Congratulations Cryptic, you made a Mundo.
-Kills seem to be awarded almost randomly in team fights. I know that getting kills doesn't really do anything but give you slightly more glory, but when a rogue uses shocking execution and one hits someone the kill should go to him and not the cleric who used astral seal.
-The Health Relic/Potions in PvP are a quick way of turning the tide in a duel. No matter if you are on the verge of death you can grab one and turn and win your fight. This encourages players to run away, grab a health potion, and go back to finish the fight. In my own opinion, grabbing a health potion should not instantly mean you will survive. Just like getting on a horse, consistent damage should make you stop receiving the benefits of a potion.
-Horses. Horses should not be included in PvP. While this Pay to Win aspect is not as severe as in other games, buying a uber-rare $30 horse will give you a distinct advantage in PvP. PvP should be about skill, not whether or not your parents let you use their credit card.
All of this being said, I think that Neverwinter PvP has some real potential. A lot of MMO's succeed or fail depending on how good their PvP and endgame content is and as a fan of Neverwinter Nights I hope this game succeeds.
I play a rogue,wizard, and healer in this game. I love the balance and I think the main post is just from a rogue that use to play world of Warcraft, where the rogue never got nerfed and expects the same from this game... A over powered rogue class that kills everything with stun locks.
The balance is awesome in this game. Everyone has a way to get out of a fight. And everyone has great abilities.
I play a rogue,wizard, and healer in this game. I love the balance and I think the main post is just from a rogue that use to play world of Warcraft, where the rogue never got nerfed and expects the same from this game... A over powered rogue class that kills everything with stun locks.
The balance is awesome in this game. Everyone has a way to get out of a fight. And everyone has great abilities.
Reading through i agree with lost, and disagree with more.
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I play a 60 CW and do alot of solo CW pve, and even more PvP. Taking any kind of dodge away from a CW imho is silly. Its a "Controller" class. If you havent played a 60 CW running T2's or CN, trying to solo manage 30+adds, sometimes more, then you cant say anything about the class and its dodging mechanic. They gave the CW an awesome ability to dodge alot, because the CW is constantly kiting every single mob in the T2's. Take away there ability to dodge frequently, and you'll see alot of dead CW's in PvE.
All class's, except DC and CW have excellent gap closers. A good rogue can always catch me, its up to me to be better and burn him down before he burns me. Same with GWF and especially GF with the high dmg output they currently are doing.
Biggest problem I see with PvP.
Its a CC nuke fest.
No diminishing returns in PvP, is always going to end up being who has the most CC, and who focus's the enemy the best. No matter how good a player, or how awesome your gear is, if you are being focused by a smart team, with all the CC we have in this game. You are locked till death.
Until they bring in DR, and actual PvP gear;i.e, gear with resistances, maybe even pumice stones(old school dispell from EQ), theres not a whole lot of skill involved in playing in PvP.
Even if it doesnt change, which I'm sure it will. I still love playing PvP. First thing I do after i check my mailbox everytime I log in.
But it needs alot of fixing.
I'd be perfectly content the way it is right now, if they would just introduce some new, differant, larger maps. Maybe King of the Hill, capture the flag, Team Deathmatch, Juggernaut. All at random, i would love it
- The only problem that i see in pvp atm is with GF, too much defense, too strong attack, and when they use the stinger and threw you to the ground and repeat it with 2 -3 skill, you're dead without even being able to get up and try to defend.
-Without their mobility CW will be sitting ducks on which other players will practice targeting, they are already the weakest class in the game that is literally three strikes if the attacker knows what doing.
-I totally agree, horses should be moved out from pvp, especially where i see abuse is by TR, they go into stealth, take pot, sit on the horse, take pot, and return to the fight with full HP, not to mention the fact that many players just sitting on their horses and running around for the altars not even trying to pvp.
Also; I have played one of every class and when a TR complains about others in PVP it is so lame. They are the ones OP. I can not believe another class complaining about nerfing another so that they can Kill them easier esp. the TR who for some reason do it all the time. I love my TR in pvp and to complain about the other classes is ridiculous. Role some more characters and see it from their point of view. TR's complaining is the height of ridiculous.
and... On another note my GF always annoys other players but his strikes are so underpowered I hardly ever get the kill. GF are sliced and diced, my knockbacks are annoying but eventually I am toast...
Genus Draco Fad and the Muster@Jintortle
ID: NW-DD5FLOBTJ Cult of the Dragon Foundry Contest - Please participate and vote for your favourite - 26/6/2014 contest rating begins.
Sir Camps A Lot. Mr SlingShot Boom. XX Phantasmagorical. Jinn Dragonfeast.
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honoraryorangeMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
and... On another note my GF always annoys other players but his strikes are so underpowered I hardly ever get the kill. GF are sliced and diced, my knockbacks are annoying but eventually I am toast...
I'd suggest checking with other GFs and finding out what you're doing wrong then. As a fully geared out CW, a GF can kill me in about 3 hits if I let him get within range or miss a dodge.
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kinukonekoMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
PvP needs alot of work. CC need diminished returns. The damage that classes put out need to be toned way the f*ck down. Either that or DC heals need to be toned way up to deal with those type of numbers. I have seen as high as 32k crits. I've played alot of diff MMO's and played alot of different PvP this is by far the worst PvP in a game I have ever seen. If it wasn't for the 4k AD for the daily I'd never PvP. The Devs have alot of work to do to make PvP even somewhat balanced. They should play some old Guild Wars and take some tips from Anet/NCsoft on how PvP should be.
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kittztrixMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 15Arc User
I smoke bout game potions n' tha use of mounts up in pvp, dont smoke wit anythang else OP holla'd though.
Is that some derivative of English?
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kittztrixMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 15Arc User
edited July 2013
I wanted to ask, since it has come to my attention that whilst playing pvp (CW) there is this invisible entity which seems to deplete my heath from full bar down to dead, sometimes faster than others, my question is... how do i have a defence from this entity if i cannot target it at all, apart from run away like a minger. I have never come across pvp where a rogue can attack whilst stealthed, i have known them immobilise, to make a getaway, why is the rogue more deadly than the gwf and the guardian, i don't get it, this makes no sense to me, whilst rogues have always been capable of devastating attacks, they had to earn them with back stab etc, not be given them on a plate with a perma stealth, it just doesn't seem exactly right.
My other moan, whilst i'm in a moaning mood is;
please fix the pvp system of teams/queueing, i have experienced;
teams with 2 clerics on one and 2 mages on other??? how hard can it be to balance the participants
people leaving, this is something you need to figure out a serious punishment for because not only does it leave his team short manned, if there's 2 leavers then its hopeless, and if it happens early enough i have known a 5 minute wait on the team with no leavers to be told (no points awarded)and this happens in the pvp hour mostly, where no one is remotely interested in anything but the glory, you may need to offer incentive to both teams, since just because a team loses does not mean they haven't played their hearts out, only one team can win... and you only seem to reward those??
you dont seem to be thinking straight about the pvp, and the game as a whole, it should be a pleasure, not something that wears you down till you quit???
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bankywanky2Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 8Arc User
edited July 2013
Only Rogues who aren't very experienced with/good at PVP would say they are countered by CWs. Their only real problem is Guardian Fighters; they can take out any other class rather easily. Every class but CW has some form of sustained damage mitigation; CWs have their Shield, but its durability only lasts for one attack. Once your three rolls are up, good luck trying to kill -- no, survive -- a geared Rogue spamming Impact Shot which takes away a third or more of your life from each attack.
Only Rogues who aren't very experienced with/good at PVP would say they are countered by CWs. Their only real problem is Guardian Fighters; they can take out any other class rather easily. Every class but CW has some form of sustained damage mitigation; CWs have their Shield, but its durability only lasts for one attack. Once your three rolls are up, good luck trying to kill -- no, survive -- a geared Rogue spamming Impact Shot which takes away a third or more of your life from each attack.
I love it when players who know nothing about a class try to make arguments against the class as if it is given an outrageous advantage.
Spam impact shot? Really? The rogue has 3 shots of impact shot, and 4 if the first impact shot is done while the rogue is in stealth but this also breaks stealth exposing the rogue. So if you want to claim that a rogue can "spam" impact shot while a wizard can CC, ice knife and kite or spam magic missile then you are talking nonsense. If the wizard is given any sort of damage mitigation then it needs the distance on it's attacks reduced or the damage they do, reduced.
I love it when players who know nothing about a class try to make arguments against the class as if it is given an outrageous advantage.
Spam impact shot? Really? The rogue has 3 shots of impact shot, and 4 if the first impact shot is done while the rogue is in stealth but this also breaks stealth exposing the rogue. So if you want to claim that a rogue can "spam" impact shot while a wizard can CC, ice knife and kite or spam magic missile then you are talking nonsense. If the wizard is given any sort of damage mitigation then it needs the distance on it's attacks reduced or the damage they do, reduced.
First of all, CW has a slow skill animation. If you cant dodge that, you are not as good as you think you may be. Magic Missile is a stand in place cast ability. In fact for so called Crowd control class we have 0 (zero) skills that can be cast while moving. A PvE build CW (like myself) dose not do much damage - its RoE on tab that helps us melt the target. If you glow green (or purple) move away. It still bogles my mind that CW has no decent AoE skills. So much for a class that is suppose to deal with crowds. And with no good AoE we cant bring out stealth rouges. The only way to counter them is a) when you see them, b) they are unskilled, not geared.
CW and DC have the short stick in PvP. I will not say they are unplayable. You can play, even perform well on a CW and rack up kills. It just takes infinite amount of patience and good gear, really good gear. And yes if you face up any GF , GWF, TR with similar gear and skills you are screwed. That said CW needs to be looked in to, maybe not out right buff but shorten the cast time of certain skills will go a long way.
P.S. No we do not have an infinite amount of CC not in PvP. Sometimes even in PvE its not enough.
First of all , any good CW , can kite a rogue all day , if they catch the rogue at range he is dead in few secounds. Yes rogues one daily does great damage , but it takes for ever to charge. I get 1 maybe 2 off per match, AND YOU CAN DODGE IT with its long animantion.
In pug 5 vs 5 count the number of CW , what team has the most wins. CW do to much damage for the amount of movement + CC they have. A well played CW has WAAAAAAAAAY more impact on a point of control fight then a rogue. If they had damage meters you would see CW WTF owning the charts.
CW only whine, because once in a while a rogue kills them , other than that they would be GODS, and are **** close to it now...
CW operate well behind some ones back, if they are pressured by two or god forbid three they are dead faster then you can blink. CW in it self is not a counter TR class, in fact we are counter nothing class much like DC. That means if a skilled TR faces a skilled CW with same gear in 80% out of 100 % TR will win. The amount of CC a CW can pull off is not bigger then any other class besides DC its the range that gives us advantage and exploit of terrain. Which i hate to resort to on my CW (nuking from pillars).
Any melee player that knows what they are doing will go for CW first even before DC for two reasons a) to prevent CC and RoE stacking on anyone, b) eliminate the target that can be killed fast even with healing on them. It takes sometimes perfect timing to survive the first push on you from stealth TRs and GFs or GWFs. 90% of the time i die. CW is ill equipted to deal with more than one player on them. CW is not a horrid class in PvP per se, it just takes a lot of stress resistance to play and fast reflexes, sometimes split second ones. As i see it right now developers are pushing us to cheese exploit the terrain and sacrifice points when capturing a node since we are forced to linger back. It dose not take tactic or skill to ride up to a pillar and nuke from there.
- you couldn't 1v4 a cleric standing on astral shield? what the ****. were you just sitting there left-clicking them the entire time? this doesn't have anything to do with clerics being "OP"; you just suck <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, sorry.
plus, you shouldn't even be fighting close enough for someone to run away and get the potion; you should be fighting near the points. if they're just running, kill them.
.....
- mounts mean almost nothing.
First, calling others dicks does not make you being less of a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, even if you say sorry.
Second mounts can mean the difference. I propose that mount speed is set to equal for all players, problem solved. Parhaps make a PvP mount for it, to avoid whines that the 3500 zen mount is not performing as intended.
Whatever we deny or embrace, we belong togheter./ Pat Benatar
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blasphemous7Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2013
The people who want CW's to have blink take half their stamina bar obviously don't have a CW. It's the one tool that makes them not die instantly. When a GWF is making a beeline for your face Unstoppable, it's time to go!
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blasphemous7Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2013
As for horses, PvP would be ridiculously slow and boring without them. If they removed them, they would really need to shrink some of the maps so it didn't take 45 mins to get to the center control point.
As for horses, PvP would be ridiculously slow and boring without them. If they removed them, they would really need to shrink some of the maps so it didn't take 45 mins to get to the center control point.
Yeah lol that might be ok for the smaller map, but the larger one would be incredibly annoying without horses, and for that matter fast mounts. Everyone always complains about fast mounts but they are less than 1 mil AD, if you can farm up enough to get end game gear then you can certainly afford to buy the zen needed with AD and unlock a fast mount, especially when 1 unlock gives it to your entire account, so worth it for pvp. I lol so hard when I come up against a premade and they don't even all have 110% mounts...
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Thread closed for necromancy! If a thread has not been posted on in over thirty days it is best to simply let it rest in peace and start a new thread to discuss the topic. Opinions, such as the ones in this thread, tend to change often.
-Ambisinisterr
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Comments
I play a rogue,wizard, and healer in this game. I love the balance and I think the main post is just from a rogue that use to play world of Warcraft, where the rogue never got nerfed and expects the same from this game... A over powered rogue class that kills everything with stun locks.
The balance is awesome in this game. Everyone has a way to get out of a fight. And everyone has great abilities.
Hard necro
Mounts: Are easily obtained by anyone, spend a little time in the game and you too will have a "super fast" mount.0
I play a 60 CW and do alot of solo CW pve, and even more PvP. Taking any kind of dodge away from a CW imho is silly. Its a "Controller" class. If you havent played a 60 CW running T2's or CN, trying to solo manage 30+adds, sometimes more, then you cant say anything about the class and its dodging mechanic. They gave the CW an awesome ability to dodge alot, because the CW is constantly kiting every single mob in the T2's. Take away there ability to dodge frequently, and you'll see alot of dead CW's in PvE.
All class's, except DC and CW have excellent gap closers. A good rogue can always catch me, its up to me to be better and burn him down before he burns me. Same with GWF and especially GF with the high dmg output they currently are doing.
Biggest problem I see with PvP.
Its a CC nuke fest.
No diminishing returns in PvP, is always going to end up being who has the most CC, and who focus's the enemy the best. No matter how good a player, or how awesome your gear is, if you are being focused by a smart team, with all the CC we have in this game. You are locked till death.
Until they bring in DR, and actual PvP gear;i.e, gear with resistances, maybe even pumice stones(old school dispell from EQ), theres not a whole lot of skill involved in playing in PvP.
Even if it doesnt change, which I'm sure it will. I still love playing PvP. First thing I do after i check my mailbox everytime I log in.
But it needs alot of fixing.
I'd be perfectly content the way it is right now, if they would just introduce some new, differant, larger maps. Maybe King of the Hill, capture the flag, Team Deathmatch, Juggernaut. All at random, i would love it
-Without their mobility CW will be sitting ducks on which other players will practice targeting, they are already the weakest class in the game that is literally three strikes if the attacker knows what doing.
-I totally agree, horses should be moved out from pvp, especially where i see abuse is by TR, they go into stealth, take pot, sit on the horse, take pot, and return to the fight with full HP, not to mention the fact that many players just sitting on their horses and running around for the altars not even trying to pvp.
Agreed.
Also; I have played one of every class and when a TR complains about others in PVP it is so lame. They are the ones OP. I can not believe another class complaining about nerfing another so that they can Kill them easier esp. the TR who for some reason do it all the time. I love my TR in pvp and to complain about the other classes is ridiculous. Role some more characters and see it from their point of view. TR's complaining is the height of ridiculous.
and... On another note my GF always annoys other players but his strikes are so underpowered I hardly ever get the kill. GF are sliced and diced, my knockbacks are annoying but eventually I am toast...
ID: NW-DD5FLOBTJ Cult of the Dragon Foundry Contest - Please participate and vote for your favourite - 26/6/2014 contest rating begins.
Sir Camps A Lot. Mr SlingShot Boom. XX Phantasmagorical. Jinn Dragonfeast.
SlingShot Boom Jr. Jocan Traders. Little Lord Forgatty, Dwarf Mean and introducing Necro Torquemada (The Warlock)
I'd suggest checking with other GFs and finding out what you're doing wrong then. As a fully geared out CW, a GF can kill me in about 3 hits if I let him get within range or miss a dodge.
Is that some derivative of English?
My other moan, whilst i'm in a moaning mood is;
please fix the pvp system of teams/queueing, i have experienced;
teams with 2 clerics on one and 2 mages on other??? how hard can it be to balance the participants
people leaving, this is something you need to figure out a serious punishment for because not only does it leave his team short manned, if there's 2 leavers then its hopeless, and if it happens early enough i have known a 5 minute wait on the team with no leavers to be told (no points awarded)and this happens in the pvp hour mostly, where no one is remotely interested in anything but the glory, you may need to offer incentive to both teams, since just because a team loses does not mean they haven't played their hearts out, only one team can win... and you only seem to reward those??
you dont seem to be thinking straight about the pvp, and the game as a whole, it should be a pleasure, not something that wears you down till you quit???
I love it when players who know nothing about a class try to make arguments against the class as if it is given an outrageous advantage.
Spam impact shot? Really? The rogue has 3 shots of impact shot, and 4 if the first impact shot is done while the rogue is in stealth but this also breaks stealth exposing the rogue. So if you want to claim that a rogue can "spam" impact shot while a wizard can CC, ice knife and kite or spam magic missile then you are talking nonsense. If the wizard is given any sort of damage mitigation then it needs the distance on it's attacks reduced or the damage they do, reduced.
First of all, CW has a slow skill animation. If you cant dodge that, you are not as good as you think you may be. Magic Missile is a stand in place cast ability. In fact for so called Crowd control class we have 0 (zero) skills that can be cast while moving. A PvE build CW (like myself) dose not do much damage - its RoE on tab that helps us melt the target. If you glow green (or purple) move away. It still bogles my mind that CW has no decent AoE skills. So much for a class that is suppose to deal with crowds. And with no good AoE we cant bring out stealth rouges. The only way to counter them is a) when you see them, b) they are unskilled, not geared.
CW and DC have the short stick in PvP. I will not say they are unplayable. You can play, even perform well on a CW and rack up kills. It just takes infinite amount of patience and good gear, really good gear. And yes if you face up any GF , GWF, TR with similar gear and skills you are screwed. That said CW needs to be looked in to, maybe not out right buff but shorten the cast time of certain skills will go a long way.
P.S. No we do not have an infinite amount of CC not in PvP. Sometimes even in PvE its not enough.
CW operate well behind some ones back, if they are pressured by two or god forbid three they are dead faster then you can blink. CW in it self is not a counter TR class, in fact we are counter nothing class much like DC. That means if a skilled TR faces a skilled CW with same gear in 80% out of 100 % TR will win. The amount of CC a CW can pull off is not bigger then any other class besides DC its the range that gives us advantage and exploit of terrain. Which i hate to resort to on my CW (nuking from pillars).
Any melee player that knows what they are doing will go for CW first even before DC for two reasons a) to prevent CC and RoE stacking on anyone, b) eliminate the target that can be killed fast even with healing on them. It takes sometimes perfect timing to survive the first push on you from stealth TRs and GFs or GWFs. 90% of the time i die. CW is ill equipted to deal with more than one player on them. CW is not a horrid class in PvP per se, it just takes a lot of stress resistance to play and fast reflexes, sometimes split second ones. As i see it right now developers are pushing us to cheese exploit the terrain and sacrifice points when capturing a node since we are forced to linger back. It dose not take tactic or skill to ride up to a pillar and nuke from there.
No. This would simply just be unrealistic and crappy, and rogues would claim all kills.
First, calling others dicks does not make you being less of a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, even if you say sorry.
Second mounts can mean the difference. I propose that mount speed is set to equal for all players, problem solved. Parhaps make a PvP mount for it, to avoid whines that the 3500 zen mount is not performing as intended.
Yeah lol that might be ok for the smaller map, but the larger one would be incredibly annoying without horses, and for that matter fast mounts. Everyone always complains about fast mounts but they are less than 1 mil AD, if you can farm up enough to get end game gear then you can certainly afford to buy the zen needed with AD and unlock a fast mount, especially when 1 unlock gives it to your entire account, so worth it for pvp. I lol so hard when I come up against a premade and they don't even all have 110% mounts...
Moderator Notice - In order to avoid bumping this...
Thread closed for necromancy! If a thread has not been posted on in over thirty days it is best to simply let it rest in peace and start a new thread to discuss the topic. Opinions, such as the ones in this thread, tend to change often.
-Ambisinisterr
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.