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What Separates a Good GWF Player From a Bad?
m1nuend
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
As a GWF myself, I'm curious. How do you recognize one?
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Quick question though since I cant make a new thread yet... When you die in Neverwinter do you lose exp?
Nope.
Seze - Rogue - Necropolis -
A GWF that has learned to move, the bad ones stand still and try to burn down their target. Good GWFs keep moving, juking and jiving and rushing out and back in, they're waiting on CDs and playing smart, they hit you from behind for Combat Advantage on their encounters, they shift sprint cancel for bigger damage on swings, they run from CWs that spec'd the freeze, they sprint away from TRs dazing strike, they run away from TRs and keep running, they focus on killing DCs, GFs, and other bad GWFs. They strategically use Unstoppable and Dailies, and don't burn em as soon as they got em.
They are useless, but there still fun to play.
In PVP, I'm doing better, partly cause I'm learning that a GWF can't stand still in a fight, they HAVE to move, see my above post
I am confused? Do you consider this a good thing?
Sure why not, it's either the tank dies or I die, DCs can't be expected to heal us all, they're not designed for that. And, when the tank dies, the DC can finish tanking and has one less player to try to heal.
From my own investigation of GWF threads, there seems to be a constant complaint about most GWF characters being single trick ponies. They might be able to fulfill one role, but never bothered to upgrade their skills for the other potential roles of a GWF. This seems to frustrate the people who organize PUGs in the chat channels since they never know if they're going to get a swiss army knife player or a someone who has devoted their entire build to fulfilling a narrow role.
PVE - Work on being a self sustaining tank. DC loves me because I don't need babysitting and he can concentrate on the rest of the party.
Zen store is what makes a bad gwf good.
This... Although a few alternatives are Reavers Edge, Negation enchant.
Also not being a downy by standing toe to toe and wasting CDs on another GWF whose popped... Usually an easy sign when im playing other GWFs is they pop CDS with I am unstoppable, and when they pop theirs I kite them till its gone...
Not always focusing on deepsing some1 down but just making sure you hold the point so your either capping or preventing them from getting points...
And its not hard to kill a GWF either btw.. Get a TR and CW who are geared and know how to play, they will destroy your 37k HP in a a few seconds, especially if they have a daily...
1v1 though noone stands a chance... So just dont try....
I also can spot a nub GWF when an 8k crit takes 1/3 of their HP away... L2stack HP... GWf isnt about DPS...
Versatility sounds good on paper, but if in the end you aren't really impacting the fight in a meaningful way, what good was your versatility?
To call our single target damage mediocre would be overly generous. It should be lower than a TR, but it is needlessly low right now.
Our AOE damage is technically the highest of the classes, but on things with any more health than a housecat, the kill time is so slow that a single rogue will have pushed the boss into the next add phase before you have even halfway killed the first set of adds. Yes, this is partially due to adds/trash having WAY more health than they should across the board, but our kill time is still unacceptably slow compared to a TR's kill time on a single target.
Our threat output is...not very good. Whether because other classes are bugged into producing vastly more threat than they are supposed to or because we are bugged into producing vastly less threat than we are supposed to, I'm not sure, but the end result is the same.
The GWF's biggest flaw is that everyone else has to NOT do something for us to do job X. When adds come out, rogues have to stop hitting the boss so we have time to kill the adds. When adds come out, CWs have to gather them up for us and NOT use a lot of their other abilities so they stay gathered up for us. Same deal with GFs and DCs, they have to NOT use their knockback so things stay gathered up for us. For tanking, everyone has to stand there doing nothing while we build up a threat headstart.
We may be intended as a swiss army knife, but right now we are one of those crappy knock-off swiss army knives, with blades made of pot metal and missing both the toothpick and tweezers.
This is so true. I hate glass cannon gwfs that dies the moment things get a little out of control.
Those are the ones that think a GWF is suppossed to plant his feet and swing away.
"Oh look I wear mail armor, I'm big orc, I can take the red circle damage, look how cute that big monster is trying to cleave me with a big hit..ha ha. I'll show him I'll pop unstoppable and cleave him right back...**** why am I dead?"
Have you spec'd for threat? I did, and **** I couldn't shake mobs off me..I had to respec and get rid of it.
I agree our single target dps is lacking, and I for one am screaming from the dungeon ceilings for more dps, but I get it now, I'm not a TR or CW, I'm playing a cleaver, a class designed to look ominous and draw attention with big sweeping attacks. I have an AoE ability that allows me to contribute as much damage as TRs and CWs even if they are single target focusing.
Our job is to offtank...and dps...not assasinate, not freeze the butter and explode it
We are one of the, if not the most mobile classes in the game, I typically run dungeons like this:
Help clear trash, cleave away until my crit is so I high I can jam a single target good
On boss fights, I am constantly sprinting from CWs to DCs cleaving the adds that go ofter them, I often use my Come and Get It and drag them to the boss and cleave everything. I keep spinning my camera around to see what else is tearing shreds in the wizards robe and try to go pick it off them. Then I sprint over the DC who now has 5 little buggers chewing on his ankles and I round them up and get a nod from the cleric and sometimes a little kiss of healing is blown my way.
Please share your threat spec. I have not found a single spec that holds any threat so far. I prefer playing sentinel but I just end up watching most mobs turn away from me as soon ad they get any real attention. I am usually near The only power I found gave any real threat was SS spec'd with Grudge style but even that could barely hold and only on a single target. Not much good on adds.
There is no actual demand for someone other than the actual tank to pick up adds and get beat on while they hit them, and not kill them in a timely manner. CWs fill the role of 'occupy adds attention' much better than us because they don't get beat on while they do it, seeing as the mobs are permanently CCed if the CW is focusing on that, and they don't have a target cap of 5 to hamstring them.
Come and get it followed by not so fast to try and get adds of a healer may be more effective than making rude gestures at your screen, but not by much. The adds get pulled to you, you hit them all with your slow, and then they continue to pretend you do not exist as they go right back to the healer. Healers produce absurd aggro, and that dinky little 2k swat doesn't even put a dent in the mob's focus on the healer. More often than not, the mob has to be straight up killed before it gets off the healer. On that note, come and get it needs to be buffed. Instead of the damage buff, it needs to pull things to you (without a target cap) faster than it does now and from further away, and then pin them there for a few seconds, like singularity, but without the hard CC effect.
This is the BAD GWF -
It shows that they rely on either 100's of dollars to get this all this soon or exploits. It also singles out all the know issues in the game that cause imbalance.
Goods are known for being able to NOT use all that HAMSTER and still be viable.
So the main tank gets to kite the boss into the raid, cleaves and frontal attacks included while he runs around rounding up adds, brilliant. Seems to me the bosses need to hit a little harder so they say um...one shot clothies and two shot leather wearing idiots that get in front of it? Let the off tank do his job, or get rid of the role and buff GWF and make him a pure insane dps machine and then we can all start complaining that bosses go down in five minutes and dungeons runs are too short.
No, what happens is that the CW sucks all the adds up and either keeps them in the air for eternity or flings them off the map. CWs do our 'off tank' job better than us by a mile. When we off tank the mobs, all 5 of the them since that's all we can attempt to reliably control, they just sit there beating on us, and not dying at anything like an acceptable speed. We are not good at that, or any other, job in this game, and we wont be until changes are made.
And no one would complain about shorter dungeon runs. There is massive outcry right now that dungeons are TOO LONG. There is a reason tons of people skip as much as possible and death run to campfires in these dungeons, and it's not because the dungeons are one step from being too short.
Using this logic. A Good TR is one that uses all blue gear cause he learns to play without 1 shot mechanics in purple gear.
A Good CW is one that stacks NO recovery because he has learned to blink around so well he doesnt need to rely on his control abilities.
Your basically saying a GWF is good if he uses suboptimal gear setup... LOL!!!! Also its NOT hard to get the gear... I made a GWF as an alt to which i made for PVP... Heh as the above setup.. I have a 14k GS GF that I do farm runs with to get my AD to do this...
This is why I never run spellplague anymore... it takes WAY too much time... I can run 3 spiders in the time it takes to run one...
But I also dont know about this completely because even GG people glitch to avoid fighting trash... Part of the problem is there is no reason to clear trash... The other part of the problem is that people are always going to find the easiest way to run something and do it... Its human nature...
So to address that you should fix the fact that people dont like clearing trash... by making a purpose in killing trash... Then reduce the length of the current dungeons so people will want to run them more... and then you will have people that actually play the real way...
Heck it would be even as easy as giving the boss a buff of X% for every mob left alive in the dungeon... incentive to kill mobs, but as it is currently that would BREAK the game so then you have to cut out like 1/2 the mobs cause thats probably about the amount that people skip...
I was pugging Fardelver today, upon finding the speedrun bridge was fixed, most of the group left.
Ironically, I don't want threat, but I have effectively AoE tanked fights like the Pirate King fight, with my Destroyer spec. It was probably pure DPS tanking, but it worked. The group makeup was GF, TR, TR, GWF (me) and DC. With no CW, the idea was that they GF would try to keep the mobs busy, while I killed them as fast as possible, with the help of one of the rogues, while the other DPSsed the boss down.
In the end, I had pretty much all the adds on me, and insane AP/determination gain. I was spamming Slam, Weapon Master's Strike, Restoring Strike and Irritable Bowel Syndrome. I moved about a bit to avoid large clumps of red, and to pick up archers, but the mobs came with me, and the DC dropped the shield in useful places so I could reach it easily.
It was easily the most fun that I have had on my GWF so far. Insane damage numbers and a very under-control fight. Given that it was a PUG, with a very inexperienced healer (who thought he should heal only the rogue tanking the boss, first time, cue wipe), it worked beautifully.
Admittedly, if we did have a CW, he might well have pulled aggro off me, but then, if we had a CW worth a thing, we wouldn't have needed any sort of tanking on this fight anyway.
* You know, a proper Thaumaturge AoE cc CW, not a Shadow Weaver-wearing Renegade specced "BUT IR DPS!!" waste of kidneys with no cc in his rotation, who'd do less damage than the cc thaum anyway.