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GFs role in Castle Never Bosses
petpet2
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
I've played all of T1 and some of T2 dungeons. I would like to try beating Draco in CN.
but I've been told that the GF is 'useless' for the final boss fight. I've fought that boss as a DC, but not yet as a GF.
a glance at zone chat clearly states players are only looking for CWs TRs and a DC for CN. almost nobody looks for a GF/GWF for CN.
Could anyone shed some light on why it's that such a case?
but I've been told that the GF is 'useless' for the final boss fight. I've fought that boss as a DC, but not yet as a GF.
a glance at zone chat clearly states players are only looking for CWs TRs and a DC for CN. almost nobody looks for a GF/GWF for CN.
Could anyone shed some light on why it's that such a case?
Post edited by petpet2 on
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IMO, a good tank GF provides Into the Fray, Knight's Valor, and is a focal point for all add focus(usually with Enforced Threat). This really allows the CW and DC to perform their jobs safely and without stress, since they have to worry about dodging a lot less often. Knight' Valor is also that all important safety net for the unexpected. It'll allow any member on your team to take a Draco hand and live it, just in case they mess up a dodge.
TL;DR: Overall, a good tank GF will make the run a lot more safe and smooth, rather than providing straight damage.
I don't understand this...what feat in Tactitian allows you to hold agro better than other GFs?
VARIANT
"Nearly all men can withstand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
-Abraham Lincoln-
You dont know? Its the "I made this up" ability... I would say the best CN group is the one that can run it the fastest. I personally have never had issues tanking/holding agro/and topping DPS meters in 1or2 in any dungeon.
When you run all stalwarts its pretty easy to take the damage and then dish it out very effectively. Its also VERY easy to hold agro when you have 16k pwer and aoe enforced threat..
Besides the fact that most DPS GF don't take the increased threat feat?
The increased action power gain from the end feat lets you quickly charge your daily while using Cleave and taking hits. You can then use Knight's Valor while you have Fighter's Recovery up to keep yourself alive a lot better(Cleave furthers this, with the multi-hit). Knight's Valor will build even more Action Power from activation and again from taking hits from your allies while you hit with Cleave.
I can have Fighter's Recovery up almost 100% of the time with Tactician, something I couldn't possibly manage with Protector feats. Since Conqueror's action power feat requires that you be below 50% heath to get the bonus, this is counter intuitive for allowing chain Fighter's Recovery.
So you're saying that other GFs can't hold agro as well as Tactitian because you assume they are dying constantly?
VARIANT
"Nearly all men can withstand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
-Abraham Lincoln-
EDIT: Maybe Potent Challenge is needed?
I have never run CN with a GF but if I had to guess there was about 50+ adds running around rampaging so if you can tank all those without instant dieing you are welcome to join the fun, otherwise I'll just keep running with the multiple CWs.
If you can use Conqueror feats and Knight's Valor in CN without dying or using a lot of pots, then tell me.
All the GF I've played with on my GWF and all the GF my friends play with that are 11k+(Conq feats) don't ever seem to last as long under aggro, even in T2 Dungeons. That's without KV.
Ex: Botched Mouth of Madness fights, getting knocked out of DC's AS during Spider Queen fight, Grast the Gut Cruncher's fight, Hrimnir, most of CN
It'd be news to me if you can.
Good to know.
I definitely care more about holding threat and protecting the team than I do about topping the DPS charts.
However, I had assumed Conquer was the best feat path for Tanking...simply because I come from Champions Online...where you need high damage to actually hold the threat to protect your team.
VARIANT
"Nearly all men can withstand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
-Abraham Lincoln-
I'm only dealing like 1200 damage per target hit with Cleave and 2500 damage per target hit with Enforced Threat. I hold crazy aggro.
If I were to get Lifedrinker enchantment, my threat would probably be insane.
The non GF's here apparently dont know how GF's work. And the GF's here apparently dont know how Aggro works.
I'm not the best, far from it, but I'll give my thoughts.
Stats and information:
During the fight I run these abilities:
For the fight I assit the CW/DC, stay near them, taunt things off them with Enforced Threat, keep them buffed with Into The Fray. The main enemy in this fight is obviously the Red Wizards, since they are ranged they like staying out of singularity,..I Bull Charge them over to my CW/DC. Also, and probably most important, I use the Tab Taunt to get things off of the guys fighting the Dracolich. I dont really fight things that much regularly, unless someone gets agro from me (not often). I just make sure enemies are where they should be, and people are not getting hit. Guardian Fighter is mainly about directing the mobs, controlling the battle,...my thoughts.
I'm not sure that feat is as impressive as it sounds. I don't see a vast increase in my AP generation just from that feat, but perhaps I am not paying close enough attention. I need to test this. most of my AP generation comes from my AOE damage skills and KV.
I am seriously considering dropping that feat, and going for a hybrid of Protector and Tactician, so that I can have both KV and ItF feated. I figure that Damage Resistance buff from the KV feat would be worth it.
A few questions.
Tab Taunt? (I thought Tab simply marked the enemy to allow for increased threat when you attack them...and it didn't actually Taunt them)
Wouldn't Frontline Surge be a better Encounter than Bull Charge for tanking?
Also...please inform on how aggro actually works.
VARIANT
"Nearly all men can withstand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
-Abraham Lincoln-
Tab Mark, sorry. I call it taunt sometimes
I used to use frontline in order to hit more then 1 with damage to keep agro. But I found that the red wizards staying at range was becoming a real issue, either they sit under the dracolich or in the middle of the room far away to not get into the CC of the CW/DC. So I run to them, bull charge them and get them with the pack. Works well. In other boss fights I do generally use frontline surge. Frontline surge can be quite useful for getting agro on things under boss where you cant mark them easily.
VARIANT
"Nearly all men can withstand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
-Abraham Lincoln-
5 and 3, respectively.
I personally only use FLS when I am soloing.
From my experiences with PUG GFs... Most think they are stealth-less rogues, DPS spec/geared and stand there DPSing the boss while the rest of the group gets rampaged. According to the forums GFs can do all these amazing things like tank adds, control threat, etc but the majority of the ones I've encountered through PUGs focus on DPS and little else.
Not slamming the GFs in general but that's just my experiences...
I'm thinking to respec into Tactition just to test that. It seems like many of the (tons of adds) boss fights involve kiting the adds around,..not needing to block to get AP might be useful.
I didnt think Into the Fray helped your AP gain,...dont think I've ever seen a difference.
5 and 3, respectively.
I use FLS along with Enforced Threat as they're the best multi target encounters we have to generate AP.
Ya, I suppose there are those ones.
---
Random thought: I had a dream last night that Into the Fray was patched to cast instantly like Knights Valor...I didnt want to wake up...
I tank CN with KV and usually don't die between zone in and Xivros. Usually don't need to pot either.
The key to using KV is having a group of people who can get out of red more often then they face tank it. Say no to CN with morons.
PS. People die on Mouth of Madness?
If your talking about all the adds on boss fights that need kiting, no tanks spec will allow you to do that and stay alive. GFs have higher damage mitigation and can block but both those things dont make him un killable. Threat management IS possible but staying alive is not... Thats not the issue here.
If your talking about trash during CN, then yes its very easy. Cleave is AoE. Enforced Threat is AoE. Yes I use threat passive for more threat on mark. Also use Villains Mennace to do AoE damage and I also rarely ever cleave the same mob twice, Im usually jumping around cleaving OR standing still but changing which mobs I cleave to get more threat on each mob. But then again, trash is easy and trash.....
Nevermind that,..People die on Grast the Gut Cruncher!?!?
Trash mobs in CN are a joke the only fight that is difficult is the draco-lich at the end only because the adds are hard to get punted out of the fight... I really don't care if you kite tank all of the adds in a circle, etc but you have to CONTROL all of the adds so they are not rampaging the DC and require a NORMAL amount of healing that isn't requiring some complicated heal strategy.
If you can do that I'll invite your GF to my CN group any night. If not then the spot is dedicated to another CW.
The group I'm normally running CN with is a GWF, 3 CW and a DC.
I'm pretty sure it does. just not sure how much. feated ItF is great.
I did 4 full CN runs just today, im a conqueror, i not only get all the agro with ease but i just dont die, in CN you have your daily ready every 5 seconds if you need it, only boss fights where you have a real role is 3rd, but the gathering mobs and grabbing/ssending to CWs of the red wiizards is also important in draco, also, high dps and debuff from GPF is also important to make CN a less than 1 hour run, seriously, ive been playing since first day of open beta, tested all the builds, several own ones even, and conqueror(with increased threat) is BY A MILE the best one for endgame.
what are you talking about here... This thread started by saying Tact is better than Conq. My response was saying Tact doesnt do anything that Conq doesnt do and Conq does it better. I have not been discussing any fight specific strats and I have both a GWF and GF and will tell you its not a GFs job to have CONTROL and KITe the adds... Especially in the Drac fight... GFs are slow as hell and have no "dodge/blink/sprint/roll" like any other class to kite... so what are you even talking about?
Seems like your just trying to have an epeen measuring contest...
just sayin'.
WITH ANY BUILD!
But truth is that conqueror makes everything that other 2 paths do AND speeds up the runs by huge AoE dps, when you have done HUNDREDS of dungeon runs, the speed is nice to have, also, by doing more dps you hold agro easier.
Said that, Prot/tactician do have nice perks, Prot extra mitigation can help you in pugs (if you can get into those, because your GS will be a lot lower) because some pugs are awful and the same happens with tactician, the buffs are interesting, yet, the frustration can get to you because no one will tke you to CN or high end T2 (DV/SP/FH) with less than 11k GS and for those 2 paths that is not easy to archieve...
When i run T2 dungs on my alts... i almost cringe on how AWFUL are a lot of GFs, but i also cry of how bad are a lot of CWs, how absolutly terribad are almost all GWFs and half of TRs... at the end, is a matter of skill, learn to play your role properly... and you will be wellcome in ANY group.