Its not like that, if you knoww your role, are well eqquipped and can gather and hold agro... you will be useful in any group...
WITH ANY BUILD!
... at the end, is a matter of skill, learn to play your role properly... and you will be wellcome in ANY group.
This guy knows what he's talking about. Equipment and Spec have a part, but its mainly the skill of the player. Heck, if I'm good enough to dodge and block all attack I'd only need a shield and a sword.
To those people that want to be a TANK tank, then dont think that goes conqueror means you cant still be one. With the soft/hard caps you can get your defense maxed out easily with equipment. When that happens, the benefits from conqueror are just better then the others. You will still be able to tank, you'll just be doing so with some more damage.
pure DPS-monkey isn't the only way to play successfully.
just sayin'.
Of course it isn't. Tact just needs something added to stand out. At least prot reduces the damage from boss adds, while rogues tank the actual bosses. I dropped all the +ap gain from my conq build and I barely notice. Tact capstone is really meh.
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
I'm not sure that feat is as impressive as it sounds. I don't see a vast increase in my AP generation just from that feat, but perhaps I am not paying close enough attention. I need to test this. most of my AP generation comes from my AOE damage skills and KV.
I am seriously considering dropping that feat, and going for a hybrid of Protector and Tactician, so that I can have both KV and ItF feated. I figure that Damage Resistance buff from the KV feat would be worth it.
Most of the time, my rotation is as follows:
Into the Fray > Fighter's Recovery > Knight's Valor > Enforced Threat > Cleave
I get 50% of my bar just from Knight's Valor. I then get an additional 15-40% from getting hit through Knight's Valor. To finish, I get around 10-20% from Enforced Threat and Cleave. By the time Knight's Valor finishes, I'll usually have had another Fighter's Recovery charged up and ready for the past 2-4 seconds.
I tank CN with KV and usually don't die between zone in and Xivros. Usually don't need to pot either.
The key to using KV is having a group of people who can get out of red more often then they face tank it. Say no to CN with morons.
PS. People die on Mouth of Madness?
I tank bad teams in CN with Knight's Valor and usually don't die between zone in and Xivros. Never need to pot, unless the team is really bad at avoiding red circles at Draco.
Also people do die at Mouth of Madness if they botch the fight. Ex: Aggro boss and both Maws and 2+ Bersekers. Since I only Pug(haven't found an active guild), I have run into this a few times.
80% of the CN runs I went on, we had a GF. 1 properly played GF can easily replace the second CW. Taking the role of knocking back Red wizards towards the CW Singularity range, debuffing Draco, movement/AP buff, tanking adds if CW misses a punt, designated reviver, etc... if all that equates to being useless in CN, then I dont know what's useful.
1. we can say regardless of what build a GF would have, people generally prefer the CW because of convenience.
2. how does a two-CW team handle the scattering wizards?
1. That may be true for pugs, where the risk of getting at least one poor CW is highest, but not for premades. I'd rather have at most 2x CW with one good GF, Conq. specced who can dps the boss AND move mobs out from under Draco.
2. Good two CW-team who work together (not talking most pugs), will have at least one CW with Repel, if not both. Repel has a fairly low CD and a large range. So, either a dedicated CW or both will be using Repel or Shield pulse to push Red Wizards towards the sides where they will be collected to be pushed.
Of course, if its a solo CW, then a GF is even more welcome, will be doing little boss dps and more controlling aggro and positioning since not many CW's can handle scattered Red Wizards, keep themselves and healer alive and also do flawless pushes. Sometimes this "offtanking" role is done by GWF but good GF's are better at it.
Yeah, mostly in the Draco fight your role as a GF is to send the wizards flying to the CWs area of influence, gather the agro that annoys the TR and DPS draco when you are free for it... and you excel at sending things flying, gathering agro and secondary dps! who thought!
No wonder so few guilds are clearing CN, this thread is full of fail.
I'm a GF and clear CN in about 30-40mins almost daily and farm it all day on weekends. CN is very easy if you know what you are doing and have an experienced group.
If you are having issues with CN then it's due to lack of experience and bad team comps.
No wonder so few guilds are clearing CN, this thread is full of fail.
I'm a GF and clear CN in about 30-40mins almost daily and farm it all day on weekends. CN is very easy if you know what you are doing and have an experienced group.
If you are having issues with CN then it's due to lack of experience and bad team comps.
Since I haven't really run CN, I'd love to learn from you what strategies work.
Please share what the winning strategies and tactics that you and your groups use. Thanks!
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
Since I haven't really run CN, I'd love to learn from you what strategies work.
Please share what the winning strategies and tactics that you and your groups use. Thanks!
For what? Draco? Either a CW or GF pushes the one Red Wizard across the platform to where the other one spawns and they all go over the edge. The whole group stays out of the aoes (boss likes to get handsy) and 5-15 minutes later he falls over :P
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
No wonder so few guilds are clearing CN, this thread is full of fail.
I'm a GF and clear CN in about 30-40mins almost daily and farm it all day on weekends. CN is very easy if you know what you are doing and have an experienced group.
If you are having issues with CN then it's due to lack of experience and bad team comps.
Define 'clear' for me. I find it hard to believe you got through all 4 bosses and the trash in 30 minutes. How many bosses did you actually fight? How many 'paths' did you take to get to the final boss? I'm not saying exploiting these paths is wrong, I just would like to know what your '30 min' is based on. I thought my 1:49 was pretty fast for fighting the entire way there more or less (took one, the very obvious, path on the side).
Since I haven't really run CN, I'd love to learn from you what strategies work.
Please share what the winning strategies and tactics that you and your groups use. Thanks!
Sorry won't teach people how to do it as it would then flood the market with CN items. But with the right team comp and experienced players the content is easy.
Define 'clear' for me. I find it hard to believe you got through all 4 bosses and the trash in 30 minutes. How many bosses did you actually fight? How many 'paths' did you take to get to the final boss? I'm not saying exploiting these paths is wrong, I just would like to know what your '30 min' is based on. I thought my 1:49 was pretty fast for fighting the entire way there more or less (took one, the very obvious, path on the side).
As posted above I won't teach you how to do fast runs. But my GF is a beast!
35k HP, 30%+ Deflect, 20%+ CRT, 22%+ ArP + tons more. I also have (2) Weapons with different enchants. G-Plague Fire & G-Lightning and switch depending on situation. Currently working on P-Soul Forge & G-Thunder to switch those too depending on situation.
As posted above I won't teach you how to do fast runs. But my GF is a beast!
35k HP, 30%+ Deflect, 20%+ CRT, 22%+ ArP + tons more. I also have (2) Weapons with different enchants. G-Plague Fire & G-Lightning and switch depending on situation. Currently working on P-Soul Forge & G-Thunder to switch those too depending on situation.
Having a lot of health and a lot of damage really doesn't have anything to do with speed runs, as most likely you're punting many of the mobs off the edges.
Again, I don't really hate on people that use 'exploits' because it's a fault of the developer to leave these giant gaps in the map (and break firepits). Tell me your speed after the patch today where they fix that first fire
Having a lot of health and a lot of damage really doesn't have anything to do with speed runs, as most likely you're punting many of the mobs off the edges.
Again, I don't really hate on people that use 'exploits' because it's a fault of the developer to leave these giant gaps in the map (and break firepits). Tell me your speed after the patch today where they fix that first fire
Won't be an issue as our DPS is massive and we can burn everything done in seconds. We are over geared for the zone and it may add a couple minutes. All the DEVs are doing is making it harder for the new players & pugs to complete the content while us that have been playing/gearing since beta just get richer as prices jump up.
Also knocking mobs off ledges is not exploiting as they can knock you off too! Learn to use in-game mechanic's.
Also knocking mobs off ledges is not exploiting as they can knock you off too! Learn to use in-game mechanic's.
Not saying anything is wrong with it. I'm saying that knocking mobs off of ledges is the fastest way to do it, regardless of gear. However, obviously bosses cannot be so,.... I guess you're geared enough to kill each boss in under 5 minutes.
Not saying anything is wrong with it. I'm saying that knocking mobs off of ledges is the fastest way to do it, regardless of gear. However, obviously bosses cannot be so,.... I guess you're geared enough to kill each boss in under 5 minutes.
There is a difference between speed running DD's with 5 experienced players with BiS T8/9s & Perfect/Greater Enchants and your normal run to carry fresh alts or new guild mates for gear.
Speed runs you skip a ton of trash and skip everything you can to kill last boss as fast a possible to get 3 kills during the DD. The 30-40 Min speed runs are very risky and challenging as each player must use their CC & burn lots of HP Pots to keep alive. We'll be pulling 2-3 or more rooms at once and the TR pulling more as we burn the trash down. When Singularity is down, I have massive amounts of aggro and all of them hitting me at once. This means my HP pool of 35k suddenly drops to a sliver before the next Sing is up.
It's not something many people enjoy doing but we enjoy the challenge to see how many rooms we can pull and how fast we can go before we hit our limits and die a horrible & funny death.
0
derpaderpistMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
Threat is not an issue as a conq , think of something else before bashing the GFs kthx.
" We live in an age of the cheaply made, disposable, high priced junk. " - theunwarshed
I'm pretty sure it does. just not sure how much. feated ItF is great.
Into the Fray adds +run speed and +15% action points generation to the party, and up to +5% damage if feated.
Fun note: Knight's Valor adds a large amount of AP, Using Into the Fray adds even more. At times, I have activated a daily and see my AP jump from 0% to somewhere between 45% and 60%. It also helps I went Tactician and the Conqureror AP generation below 50% health feat. Depending on the action and the cleric's healing, I have had more AP then I can figure out what to do with (first time I had it happen my jaw dropped).
Im running cn pretty much every day and i can give some general points from the perspective of a premade cn group.
I prefer to take a rogue because he can do the running parts faster and usually has higher single target dps.
Taking aggro of mobs and doing aoe damage (which the gf is good at) doesnt matter for us, since we always bring 2 cws into cn who control the ads just fine.
On draco fight having a gf is annoying because a lot of mobs actually stay close to him and dont come to us to push them off.
That beeing said a good gf is the best replacement imo for the rogue spot, he makes the dungeon run a bit safer and is really good if you have trouble at third boss, since his block keeps him alife through that nasty aoe.
Into the Fray adds +run speed and +15% action points generation to the party, and up to +5% damage if feated.
Fun note: Knight's Valor adds a large amount of AP, Using Into the Fray adds even more. At times, I have activated a daily and see my AP jump from 0% to somewhere between 45% and 60%. It also helps I went Tactician and the Conqureror AP generation below 50% health feat. Depending on the action and the cleric's healing, I have had more AP then I can figure out what to do with (first time I had it happen my jaw dropped).
Double/triple stacking VM and intentionally overpulling parts of CN makes for some hilarious number spam.
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
diff with conqueror and tactician
conqueror = high damage but needs to sacrifice 5% deflect and additional AC feat (if you follow common guides)
tactician = buffs allies / tough / decrease marked targets damage
tip to conqueror dont take battle trample feat(tactician) it only adds a little damage 25% of weapons damage around 150
take crushing pin instead 10% damage to all members (i use threat rush to perma debuffs boss/mobs)
idk whats the reward for highest damage does it gives any rewards?
diff with conqueror and tactician
conqueror = high damage but needs to sacrifice 5% deflect and additional AC feat (if you follow common guides)
tactician = buffs allies / tough / decrease marked targets damage
tip to conqueror dont take battle trample feat(tactician) it only adds a little damage 25% of weapons damage around 150
take crushing pin instead 10% damage to all members (i use threat rush to perma debuffs boss/mobs)
idk whats the reward for highest damage does it gives any rewards?
You get a title eventually.
As you begin to play with better CWs (or your friends figure the class out) stuff like crushing pin becomes less interesting. Only buffs to your own damage (and not the group's) really help agro so you can easily justify dropping the 10 in tact for 10 in prot.
It feels like you choose between:
Conq-
Better agro
Dramatic increases in your personal aoe dps
Tact-
5% less damage during kv
whatever % pin+itf increases party damage by
Hardly ****ing matters if your group plays well and Conq ends up being able to carry pugs better.
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
Fun note: Knight's Valor adds a large amount of AP, Using Into the Fray adds even more. At times, I have activated a daily and see my AP jump from 0% to somewhere between 45% and 60%.
Still not sure if this is relative to the amount of enemies around or what.
Last night in CN, I was getting 90% action points off of a single cast in some areas.
Still not sure if this is relative to the amount of enemies around or what.
Last night in CN, I was getting 90% action points off of a single cast in some areas.
Pretty sure fray and kv are party member related on the cast. KV probably gives the impression of something else going on if you hit it just as people take damage and then your various +ap stuff kicks in etc.
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
As you begin to play with better CWs (or your friends figure the class out) stuff like crushing pin becomes less interesting. Only buffs to your own damage (and not the group's) really help agro so you can easily justify dropping the 10 in tact for 10 in prot.
It feels like you choose between:
Conq-
Better agro
Dramatic increases in your personal aoe dps
Tact-
5% less damage during kv
whatever % pin+itf increases party damage by
Hardly ****ing matters if your group plays well and Conq ends up being able to carry pugs better.
try both before you compare
no matter what conq build you choose you will lose 5 ac bec of tacticians -10%cd feat
imagine your partymatess are already strong buffing will make them even stronger
conqueror is good for weak mobs you will just 3-5 hits them with cleave but against boss/tanking adds tactician is much better youre not just increasing your parties damage but also reducing mobs damage
add 5% damage to TR
AS + -10% damage from your debuff
tactician/protector path can also deal high damage stalwart + tene?
so whats better at dungeons?
Comments
This guy knows what he's talking about. Equipment and Spec have a part, but its mainly the skill of the player. Heck, if I'm good enough to dodge and block all attack I'd only need a shield and a sword.
To those people that want to be a TANK tank, then dont think that goes conqueror means you cant still be one. With the soft/hard caps you can get your defense maxed out easily with equipment. When that happens, the benefits from conqueror are just better then the others. You will still be able to tank, you'll just be doing so with some more damage.
Of course it isn't. Tact just needs something added to stand out. At least prot reduces the damage from boss adds, while rogues tank the actual bosses. I dropped all the +ap gain from my conq build and I barely notice. Tact capstone is really meh.
Most of the time, my rotation is as follows:
Into the Fray > Fighter's Recovery > Knight's Valor > Enforced Threat > Cleave
I get 50% of my bar just from Knight's Valor. I then get an additional 15-40% from getting hit through Knight's Valor. To finish, I get around 10-20% from Enforced Threat and Cleave. By the time Knight's Valor finishes, I'll usually have had another Fighter's Recovery charged up and ready for the past 2-4 seconds.
I tank bad teams in CN with Knight's Valor and usually don't die between zone in and Xivros. Never need to pot, unless the team is really bad at avoiding red circles at Draco.
Also people do die at Mouth of Madness if they botch the fight. Ex: Aggro boss and both Maws and 2+ Bersekers. Since I only Pug(haven't found an active guild), I have run into this a few times.
Seen it happen once and heard about it a few times from really pissed friends. Some GF just can't take the aggro for long enough.
2. how does a two-CW team handle the scattering wizards?
1. That may be true for pugs, where the risk of getting at least one poor CW is highest, but not for premades. I'd rather have at most 2x CW with one good GF, Conq. specced who can dps the boss AND move mobs out from under Draco.
2. Good two CW-team who work together (not talking most pugs), will have at least one CW with Repel, if not both. Repel has a fairly low CD and a large range. So, either a dedicated CW or both will be using Repel or Shield pulse to push Red Wizards towards the sides where they will be collected to be pushed.
Of course, if its a solo CW, then a GF is even more welcome, will be doing little boss dps and more controlling aggro and positioning since not many CW's can handle scattered Red Wizards, keep themselves and healer alive and also do flawless pushes. Sometimes this "offtanking" role is done by GWF but good GF's are better at it.
I'm a GF and clear CN in about 30-40mins almost daily and farm it all day on weekends. CN is very easy if you know what you are doing and have an experienced group.
If you are having issues with CN then it's due to lack of experience and bad team comps.
Since I haven't really run CN, I'd love to learn from you what strategies work.
Please share what the winning strategies and tactics that you and your groups use. Thanks!
For what? Draco? Either a CW or GF pushes the one Red Wizard across the platform to where the other one spawns and they all go over the edge. The whole group stays out of the aoes (boss likes to get handsy) and 5-15 minutes later he falls over :P
Define 'clear' for me. I find it hard to believe you got through all 4 bosses and the trash in 30 minutes. How many bosses did you actually fight? How many 'paths' did you take to get to the final boss? I'm not saying exploiting these paths is wrong, I just would like to know what your '30 min' is based on. I thought my 1:49 was pretty fast for fighting the entire way there more or less (took one, the very obvious, path on the side).
Sorry won't teach people how to do it as it would then flood the market with CN items. But with the right team comp and experienced players the content is easy.
As posted above I won't teach you how to do fast runs. But my GF is a beast!
35k HP, 30%+ Deflect, 20%+ CRT, 22%+ ArP + tons more. I also have (2) Weapons with different enchants. G-Plague Fire & G-Lightning and switch depending on situation. Currently working on P-Soul Forge & G-Thunder to switch those too depending on situation.
Having a lot of health and a lot of damage really doesn't have anything to do with speed runs, as most likely you're punting many of the mobs off the edges.
Again, I don't really hate on people that use 'exploits' because it's a fault of the developer to leave these giant gaps in the map (and break firepits). Tell me your speed after the patch today where they fix that first fire
Won't be an issue as our DPS is massive and we can burn everything done in seconds. We are over geared for the zone and it may add a couple minutes. All the DEVs are doing is making it harder for the new players & pugs to complete the content while us that have been playing/gearing since beta just get richer as prices jump up.
Also knocking mobs off ledges is not exploiting as they can knock you off too! Learn to use in-game mechanic's.
Not saying anything is wrong with it. I'm saying that knocking mobs off of ledges is the fastest way to do it, regardless of gear. However, obviously bosses cannot be so,.... I guess you're geared enough to kill each boss in under 5 minutes.
There is a difference between speed running DD's with 5 experienced players with BiS T8/9s & Perfect/Greater Enchants and your normal run to carry fresh alts or new guild mates for gear.
Speed runs you skip a ton of trash and skip everything you can to kill last boss as fast a possible to get 3 kills during the DD. The 30-40 Min speed runs are very risky and challenging as each player must use their CC & burn lots of HP Pots to keep alive. We'll be pulling 2-3 or more rooms at once and the TR pulling more as we burn the trash down. When Singularity is down, I have massive amounts of aggro and all of them hitting me at once. This means my HP pool of 35k suddenly drops to a sliver before the next Sing is up.
It's not something many people enjoy doing but we enjoy the challenge to see how many rooms we can pull and how fast we can go before we hit our limits and die a horrible & funny death.
Into the Fray adds +run speed and +15% action points generation to the party, and up to +5% damage if feated.
Fun note: Knight's Valor adds a large amount of AP, Using Into the Fray adds even more. At times, I have activated a daily and see my AP jump from 0% to somewhere between 45% and 60%. It also helps I went Tactician and the Conqureror AP generation below 50% health feat. Depending on the action and the cleric's healing, I have had more AP then I can figure out what to do with (first time I had it happen my jaw dropped).
I prefer to take a rogue because he can do the running parts faster and usually has higher single target dps.
Taking aggro of mobs and doing aoe damage (which the gf is good at) doesnt matter for us, since we always bring 2 cws into cn who control the ads just fine.
On draco fight having a gf is annoying because a lot of mobs actually stay close to him and dont come to us to push them off.
That beeing said a good gf is the best replacement imo for the rogue spot, he makes the dungeon run a bit safer and is really good if you have trouble at third boss, since his block keeps him alife through that nasty aoe.
Double/triple stacking VM and intentionally overpulling parts of CN makes for some hilarious number spam.
conqueror = high damage but needs to sacrifice 5% deflect and additional AC feat (if you follow common guides)
tactician = buffs allies / tough / decrease marked targets damage
tip to conqueror dont take battle trample feat(tactician) it only adds a little damage 25% of weapons damage around 150
take crushing pin instead 10% damage to all members (i use threat rush to perma debuffs boss/mobs)
idk whats the reward for highest damage does it gives any rewards?
You get a title eventually.
As you begin to play with better CWs (or your friends figure the class out) stuff like crushing pin becomes less interesting. Only buffs to your own damage (and not the group's) really help agro so you can easily justify dropping the 10 in tact for 10 in prot.
It feels like you choose between:
Conq-
Better agro
Dramatic increases in your personal aoe dps
Tact-
5% less damage during kv
whatever % pin+itf increases party damage by
Hardly ****ing matters if your group plays well
Still not sure if this is relative to the amount of enemies around or what.
Last night in CN, I was getting 90% action points off of a single cast in some areas.
Pretty sure fray and kv are party member related on the cast. KV probably gives the impression of something else going on if you hit it just as people take damage and then your various +ap stuff kicks in etc.
try both before you compare
no matter what conq build you choose you will lose 5 ac bec of tacticians -10%cd feat
imagine your partymatess are already strong buffing will make them even stronger
conqueror is good for weak mobs you will just 3-5 hits them with cleave but against boss/tanking adds tactician is much better youre not just increasing your parties damage but also reducing mobs damage
add 5% damage to TR
AS + -10% damage from your debuff
tactician/protector path can also deal high damage stalwart + tene?
so whats better at dungeons?