So for Esteena, its not that I personally have ever had an issue with this. When I playd my GF I would shield and sit since I was tanky enough to withstand the daggers. Not to mention I loved it because my stalwarts proced and I could turn around and 2 shot IF I caught the TR.
I love how you try to flame by saying " just because some rogues can out play you" LOL!
Its not an "outplay" mechanic but like Lantiss said its definitely OP...
Dont try and defend your own class man, while there are alot of bad PVPers out there, just because someone posts about a build/set up being OP doesnt make them bad in PVP...
I've never flamed you. I just think it is childish to nerf a class because it is hard to counter it's build .(Sorry if it offended you, wasn't my intention).
I'm not defending my class , i'm defending my tactics to counter it. Which i have already done and countered so many times against rogues with similar builds as Lantis .I'm trying to give players solutions based on my experience, but then again the nerf hammers sounds more interesting to them.:rolleyes:
Anything i say is my personal opinion, and i still think they are unskilled if they can't counter it .Everyone is free to think what they want.
Frankly im sick to death of rogues telling me to LRN2Play
And for your rogues that think your skilled. On boss fights you deal with one target. Just one. As a CW I have up 15-20 targets plus various red zones of AOE. I have the least amount of mitigation and have to deal with those targets while the AS is down or its a wipe. I have to protect the healer at the same time or its a wipe.
On CN if I don't round those targets up and punt them at just the right time every time its a wipe. If we don't have them all out by a certain time its all over.
You guys hit one target. Takes lots of skill to do that.
Calm down, we are talking about PvP. PvE is a different story , nothing to compare here .
You dont NEED the build up with tene and vorpal to do INSANE damage... YOu can hop around and proc full HP tenes all day long from range from stealth and get a target to 1/3 HP is seconds... Its even worse when you CAN build it up... I mean its not like it does NO damage without build up.. It still does good damage with vorpal and add greater tenes... its GG
The issue is with how the enchants impact pvp not the build; this kind of thing is not an issue pre-level cap. Probably the best thing Cryptic could do to start fixing this kind of pvp issue is to not allow any gems/enchants in pvp.
If you play pre-level cap you'll see the game is pretty well balanced class wise and these "cheesy" build issues only start when you combine a class that is working totally fine with OP gems/enchants. For example a rogue can stay pretty much permanently in stealth pre-level cap, but there is no way they can kill players just with CoS from stealth.
I've never flamed you. I just think it is childish to nerf a class because it is hard to counter it's build
Anything i say is my personal opinion, and i still think they are unskilled if they can't counter it .Everyone is free to think what they want.
Yes but your inference is they are useless in PVP or is it a lrn2play issue. Which is it. You rogues have no clue. PVE translates to your skill level in PVP. You don't need to be skilled to be a rogue in PVP and get easy kills period.
I will state again to all you Lrn to play rogues out there.
You think your skilled. On boss fights you deal with one target. Just one. As a CW I have up 15-20 targets plus various red zones of AOE. I have the least amount of mitigation and have to deal with those targets while the AS is down or its a wipe. I have to protect the healer at the same time or its a wipe.
On CN last boss if I don't round those all those targets up and punt them at just the right time every time its a wipe. If we don't have them all out by a certain time its all over.
You guys hit one target. Takes lots of skill to do that. That lack of skill translates in PVP too.
I don't know where some many of you rogues get off thinking your so great.
Don't kid yourselves that you are good at what you do.
Not an exploit , all potions that drops from mobs and praying can work in pvp and are consumed upon death.
But then again, you prefer complaining than learning how to play.
That's odd none of my potions of major healing work... Ohhh that's right because they never intended for PVE acquired potions to heal in PvP. Could that be why they have PvP healing potions?! You're pretty dense if you believe they intended for rejuv potions to heal 800-1.2k health every 2s for 12s with 12s CD "IF" it goes on CD in pvp. Best pvp potion heals 1k every second for 5s on 2m CD.. Think about it... actually you better not you might hurt yourself.
As far as permastealth, the rational folks know and admit it's broken... the irrational continue to cling to the idea that it's working as intended and all their "tactics" they "invented" and the fact you cannot perform them properly (since the TR cannot counter them ever), just makes you bad. basically insert "L2play stfu stop whining" amirite esteena?
Frankly im sick to death of rogues telling me to LRN2Play
And for your rogues that think your skilled. On boss fights you deal with one target. Just one. As a CW I have up 15-20 targets plus various red zones of AOE. I have the least amount of mitigation and have to deal with those targets while the AS is down or its a wipe. I have to protect the healer at the same time or its a wipe.
On CN if I don't round those targets up and punt them at just the right time every time its a wipe. If we don't have them all out by a certain time its all over.
You guys hit one target. Takes lots of skill to do that.
Yes you are uber skilled with the CW, takes a lot of skill to singularity and repel mobs, stop time if you pvp... :-/ You go solo the bosses chief and come back here with a feed and show me how "skilled" you are.
You are SO clueless if you think it takes more skill to play a CW over a TR... cant help people that cant learn actual hunting tactics.
I don't have a perma stealth build, I don't use lashing blade nor impact shot... and I hunt other TR's (including perma-stealth) and other classes pretty well, the worst thing to face is a heavily geared GF with tene's hitting their aoe knock back/face plant for 10K.
I swear people get this all screwed up... you would think TR's have 3 dailies, 10 encounter powers, 3 at will, with unlimited stealth and daggers.
SO let me ask you this, if other CW's are fully capable of hunting me and other rogues, why cant you?
Again, you solo the boss while people worry about adds, with your CW and post the video link and show your skills. Otherwise you are just another trash talker that gets pwned and can only QQ.
Again, you solo the boss while people worry about adds, with your CW and post the video link and show your skills. Otherwise you are just another trash talker that gets pwned and can only QQ.
LOL full Shadow weavers gear with full ancients and not P2W.
I play a CW. I can and have completed all the current content. As a rogue your job is to solo one boss with the easiest mechanics to stop.
As a CW I have to deal with a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> ton of adds. I rarely if ever get help from a GWF or a GF in holding any add aggro. If you've been in the fights you know. Unless you are in tunnel vision in your little world of not caring about saving the butt of the healer or the rest of the team.
I don't think you play the same game if you think rogues have it hard on bosses in this game
Yes but your inference is they are useless in PVP or is it a lrn2play issue. Which is it. You rogues have no clue. PVE translates to your skill level in PVP. You don't need to be skilled to be a rogue in PVP and get easy kills period.
I will state again to all you Lrn to play rogues out there.
You think your skilled. On boss fights you deal with one target. Just one. As a CW I have up 15-20 targets plus various red zones of AOE. I have the least amount of mitigation and have to deal with those targets while the AS is down or its a wipe. I have to protect the healer at the same time or its a wipe.
On CN last boss if I don't round those all those targets up and punt them at just the right time every time its a wipe. If we don't have them all out by a certain time its all over.
You guys hit one target. Takes lots of skill to do that. That lack of skill translates in PVP too.
I don't know where some many of you rogues get off thinking your so great.
Don't kid yourselves that you are good at what you do.
Again, you are discussing PvE . it is a different story.
and i never said the CW is useless in PvP .Comparing PvE with PvP is like comparing potatoes to tomatoes.
You dont have to deal with 15 targets in PvP...and you cant kill CN's last boss without a TR either.
I do understand that CW's job is much harder than TR's job there in PvE. But in PvP we all become single target hitters.
Ps. Seriously... don't compare AI mobs as targets in PvE with real life human being players targets in PvP..it is like when i compare you with a light bulb.
That's odd none of my potions of major healing work... Ohhh that's right because they never intended for PVE acquired potions to heal in PvP. Could that be why they have PvP healing potions?! You're pretty dense if you believe they intended for rejuv potions to heal 800-1.2k health every 2s for 12s with 12s CD "IF" it goes on CD in pvp. Best pvp potion heals 1k every second for 5s on 2m CD.. Think about it... actually you better not you might hurt yourself.
As far as permastealth, the rational folks know and admit it's broken... the irrational continue to cling to the idea that it's working as intended and all their "tactics" they "invented" and the fact you cannot perform them properly (since the TR cannot counter them ever), just makes you bad. basically insert "L2play stfu stop whining" amirite esteena?
I think you didnt understand me ,
The potions i meant are the buff potions ( blue and pink and green ones). They all work in PvP and are easily obtainable , how is that exploitable?
the pink one doesn't even regenerate your whole hit points , unlike the ones you pick during PvP.
TR cannot counter perma stealth? i did and killed many of them. I just mentioned how for TRs ,CW and GFs, you are just too lazy to think..
You dont NEED the build up with tene and vorpal to do INSANE damage... YOu can hop around and proc full HP tenes all day long from range from stealth and get a target to 1/3 HP is seconds... Its even worse when you CAN build it up... I mean its not like it does NO damage without build up.. It still does good damage with vorpal and add greater tenes... its GG
So what you are really saying is " tene and vorpal to do INSANE damage.." , so perhaps it's not the rogue that is op maybe just maybe it's the enchants? Only quoting what you said.
You also mentioned WoW , which I played as a rogue for over 7 years before quitting , I would like to say that although rogues did get their mobilty reduced a bit they still had talents that would increase movement speed while stealthed exactly the same as the abilities in this game.Probably still are one of the most mobil classes in the game and had permanent stealth ,except maybe monks but I never tried a monk. Yes they did pop out of stealth when attacking but what you forgot to mention was, I could click 1 button and be right back in stealth sapping to my hearts content (proning in NWO).
The main reason I posted here was to ask ,did you really need to start another stealth whine thread when there are already so many by the same players on the forums ,just like every other MMO I hasten to add.
All this will do and has done is get the same "we can't counter this players" to spew more misinformation about rogues. In every stealth whine post it's the same 3-4 players who seem to be struggling, they have even been given strategies to combat it but never listen, they prefer to spend all their free time crying on the forums.
I play rogue in every MMO and this is no different from the rest, I have been through so many nerfs due to crying players but I can handle that, I find another build that works for me and with-in a week they are back crying, people just do not like rogues in MMO's, I don't actually play perm stealth in NWO I find it a bit too weak for my liking. so don't take away my easy kill
Tbh you really should be careful what you wish for, if they were to nerf stealth those currently playing perma builds move onto using actual damage abilities still destroying you guys but in half the time and you will be back here crying again for more nerfs.
Does GF,GWF,CW destroy me if I get caught ,yes they do, do I run onto the forums and cry nerf, no I don't, this is a game where I come to relax and have fun, if you guys are getting so stressed about rogues, either level one and find their weaknesses or go ask in your class forums for help, there are plenty of players who will be willing to help you and there is no shame in trying to better your gameplay.
Having played many MMO's over the years I find this game to be fairly well balanced for it's age compared to many others, except maybe premades v pugs but that's another story and I'm sure in time will be addressed. In the meantime I will keep queuing and having fun while the crying continues here on the forums.
Lol, all you're going to hear is "working as intended.. learn to play... CoS only has 12 charges and has 36s full recharge time (they don't mention 1 charge every 3s), l2dodge away, l2dodge towards, use aoe to pop them out of steelf (they wont see it coming or anything), etc etc... This is a known issue that's been in discussion for weeks and something most likely will be done about it.. In the mean time, I'm leveling one up to get in on the lawlz.. inc Cheese Ball
yup, just so that you can see that the people who know how to counter rogues are actually trying to open your eyes , heck even rogues are doing that, yet you guys think that for some reason we are just trolling you all and rather keep the rant on boards instead of apply what was mentioned likelly by more experienced players who actually tested the counters rather than stick to the theory that it will never work.
But it is good you will be going for the "cheese build", because the moment you face decent players who WILL counter you, maybe your point of view changes and you can start believing what we are telling you guys for so long, or i am overestimating ths possibility and you will just think that no matter how good you are at it, that all counters came because you are not a pro rogue and the one who countered you got "lucky", but im hoping for the optimistic side of this experience for you.
Funny. Everyone knows that perma stealth is just imba because its nearly impossible to target the TR while he is in dagger range.
But here are a few perma stealth TR around which are writing down the silliest statement ever: "l2p" ... each thread, each comment is just only "l2p". If there would be some successful tactics to fight a perma stealth TR, nobody would start these threads. But using some AoE encounter while praying to god that the TR might be hit and the TR might be lose stealth ... well that doesnt look like a real tactic.
well perma stealth TR will be nerfed in future patches. soloing epic dungeon bosses should not be possible at all.
sorry, i had to grasp my breath after laughing really hard before i editted post to add this pearl.
Man, THERE ARE means to counter us and anyone who puts a tiny bit of effort into thinking can come up with them, in fact you guys use more braicells writing the nerf rage posts (although it doesnt seem like it given how stupid those are) than you would to actually pull up a easy way to deal with us, and believe me, there are plenty of easy ways that i would spend the day here numbering.
Also, yep, a perma stealth rogue "could" in theory solo bosses on dungeons, if he is willing to spend hours on it, while a dps rogue with a good team would do that exact same dungeon 2 times at least on the same time gap the PS rogue takes to solo 1. The punishment we take for our build on PVE is that when we try to do things like soloing a dungeon we take an absurd amount of time that could be best invested doing said dungeons properly with a good team. Our build wasnt meant for PVE, even though it provides very good survivability there, it is meant for pvp, and if you ever enter a epic dungeon as perma stealth on a pug, get ready for the boot, because pve is executioner build territory, and players will rather have that 10 times out of 10 rather than a perma.
Comments
I've never flamed you. I just think it is childish to nerf a class because it is hard to counter it's build
I'm not defending my class , i'm defending my tactics to counter it. Which i have already done and countered so many times against rogues with similar builds as Lantis
Anything i say is my personal opinion, and i still think they are unskilled if they can't counter it .Everyone is free to think what they want.
Calm down, we are talking about PvP. PvE is a different story , nothing to compare here
PS. no one said that CW are useless in PvE.
The issue is with how the enchants impact pvp not the build; this kind of thing is not an issue pre-level cap. Probably the best thing Cryptic could do to start fixing this kind of pvp issue is to not allow any gems/enchants in pvp.
If you play pre-level cap you'll see the game is pretty well balanced class wise and these "cheesy" build issues only start when you combine a class that is working totally fine with OP gems/enchants. For example a rogue can stay pretty much permanently in stealth pre-level cap, but there is no way they can kill players just with CoS from stealth.
Yes but your inference is they are useless in PVP or is it a lrn2play issue. Which is it. You rogues have no clue. PVE translates to your skill level in PVP. You don't need to be skilled to be a rogue in PVP and get easy kills period.
I will state again to all you Lrn to play rogues out there.
You think your skilled. On boss fights you deal with one target. Just one. As a CW I have up 15-20 targets plus various red zones of AOE. I have the least amount of mitigation and have to deal with those targets while the AS is down or its a wipe. I have to protect the healer at the same time or its a wipe.
On CN last boss if I don't round those all those targets up and punt them at just the right time every time its a wipe. If we don't have them all out by a certain time its all over.
You guys hit one target. Takes lots of skill to do that. That lack of skill translates in PVP too.
I don't know where some many of you rogues get off thinking your so great.
Don't kid yourselves that you are good at what you do.
That's odd none of my potions of major healing work... Ohhh that's right because they never intended for PVE acquired potions to heal in PvP. Could that be why they have PvP healing potions?! You're pretty dense if you believe they intended for rejuv potions to heal 800-1.2k health every 2s for 12s with 12s CD "IF" it goes on CD in pvp. Best pvp potion heals 1k every second for 5s on 2m CD.. Think about it... actually you better not you might hurt yourself.
As far as permastealth, the rational folks know and admit it's broken... the irrational continue to cling to the idea that it's working as intended and all their "tactics" they "invented" and the fact you cannot perform them properly (since the TR cannot counter them ever), just makes you bad. basically insert "L2play stfu stop whining" amirite esteena?
Yes you are uber skilled with the CW, takes a lot of skill to singularity and repel mobs, stop time if you pvp... :-/ You go solo the bosses chief and come back here with a feed and show me how "skilled" you are.
You are SO clueless if you think it takes more skill to play a CW over a TR... cant help people that cant learn actual hunting tactics.
I don't have a perma stealth build, I don't use lashing blade nor impact shot... and I hunt other TR's (including perma-stealth) and other classes pretty well, the worst thing to face is a heavily geared GF with tene's hitting their aoe knock back/face plant for 10K.
I swear people get this all screwed up... you would think TR's have 3 dailies, 10 encounter powers, 3 at will, with unlimited stealth and daggers.
SO let me ask you this, if other CW's are fully capable of hunting me and other rogues, why cant you?
Look i will be nice. Read that questions back to yourself. Also unlike you I levelled a TR and you obviously haven't levelled a CW.
I state again. The boss mechanics in this game are easy mode compared to the tons of adds they throw into the fights.
If you think otherwise you are kidding yourself.
LOL full Shadow weavers gear with full ancients and not P2W.
I play a CW. I can and have completed all the current content. As a rogue your job is to solo one boss with the easiest mechanics to stop.
As a CW I have to deal with a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> ton of adds. I rarely if ever get help from a GWF or a GF in holding any add aggro. If you've been in the fights you know. Unless you are in tunnel vision in your little world of not caring about saving the butt of the healer or the rest of the team.
I don't think you play the same game if you think rogues have it hard on bosses in this game
Again, you are discussing PvE . it is a different story.
and i never said the CW is useless in PvP .Comparing PvE with PvP is like comparing potatoes to tomatoes.
You dont have to deal with 15 targets in PvP...and you cant kill CN's last boss without a TR either.
I do understand that CW's job is much harder than TR's job there in PvE. But in PvP we all become single target hitters.
Ps. Seriously... don't compare AI mobs as targets in PvE with real life human being players targets in PvP..it is like when i compare you with a light bulb.
I think you didnt understand me ,
The potions i meant are the buff potions ( blue and pink and green ones). They all work in PvP and are easily obtainable , how is that exploitable?
the pink one doesn't even regenerate your whole hit points , unlike the ones you pick during PvP.
TR cannot counter perma stealth? i did and killed many of them. I just mentioned how for TRs ,CW and GFs, you are just too lazy to think..
So yah, learn to play.
So what you are really saying is " tene and vorpal to do INSANE damage.." , so perhaps it's not the rogue that is op maybe just maybe it's the enchants? Only quoting what you said.
You also mentioned WoW , which I played as a rogue for over 7 years before quitting , I would like to say that although rogues did get their mobilty reduced a bit they still had talents that would increase movement speed while stealthed exactly the same as the abilities in this game.Probably still are one of the most mobil classes in the game and had permanent stealth ,except maybe monks but I never tried a monk. Yes they did pop out of stealth when attacking but what you forgot to mention was, I could click 1 button and be right back in stealth sapping to my hearts content (proning in NWO).
The main reason I posted here was to ask ,did you really need to start another stealth whine thread when there are already so many by the same players on the forums ,just like every other MMO I hasten to add.
All this will do and has done is get the same "we can't counter this players" to spew more misinformation about rogues. In every stealth whine post it's the same 3-4 players who seem to be struggling, they have even been given strategies to combat it but never listen, they prefer to spend all their free time crying on the forums.
I play rogue in every MMO and this is no different from the rest, I have been through so many nerfs due to crying players but I can handle that, I find another build that works for me and with-in a week they are back crying, people just do not like rogues in MMO's, I don't actually play perm stealth in NWO I find it a bit too weak for my liking. so don't take away my easy kill
Tbh you really should be careful what you wish for, if they were to nerf stealth those currently playing perma builds move onto using actual damage abilities still destroying you guys but in half the time and you will be back here crying again for more nerfs.
Does GF,GWF,CW destroy me if I get caught ,yes they do, do I run onto the forums and cry nerf, no I don't, this is a game where I come to relax and have fun, if you guys are getting so stressed about rogues, either level one and find their weaknesses or go ask in your class forums for help, there are plenty of players who will be willing to help you and there is no shame in trying to better your gameplay.
Having played many MMO's over the years I find this game to be fairly well balanced for it's age compared to many others, except maybe premades v pugs but that's another story and I'm sure in time will be addressed. In the meantime I will keep queuing and having fun while the crying continues here on the forums.
yup, just so that you can see that the people who know how to counter rogues are actually trying to open your eyes , heck even rogues are doing that, yet you guys think that for some reason we are just trolling you all and rather keep the rant on boards instead of apply what was mentioned likelly by more experienced players who actually tested the counters rather than stick to the theory that it will never work.
But it is good you will be going for the "cheese build", because the moment you face decent players who WILL counter you, maybe your point of view changes and you can start believing what we are telling you guys for so long, or i am overestimating ths possibility and you will just think that no matter how good you are at it, that all counters came because you are not a pro rogue and the one who countered you got "lucky", but im hoping for the optimistic side of this experience for you.
sorry, i had to grasp my breath after laughing really hard before i editted post to add this pearl.
Man, THERE ARE means to counter us and anyone who puts a tiny bit of effort into thinking can come up with them, in fact you guys use more braicells writing the nerf rage posts (although it doesnt seem like it given how stupid those are) than you would to actually pull up a easy way to deal with us, and believe me, there are plenty of easy ways that i would spend the day here numbering.
Also, yep, a perma stealth rogue "could" in theory solo bosses on dungeons, if he is willing to spend hours on it, while a dps rogue with a good team would do that exact same dungeon 2 times at least on the same time gap the PS rogue takes to solo 1. The punishment we take for our build on PVE is that when we try to do things like soloing a dungeon we take an absurd amount of time that could be best invested doing said dungeons properly with a good team. Our build wasnt meant for PVE, even though it provides very good survivability there, it is meant for pvp, and if you ever enter a epic dungeon as perma stealth on a pug, get ready for the boot, because pve is executioner build territory, and players will rather have that 10 times out of 10 rather than a perma.
You see , here we go again ,more misinformation ,please follow the below link to discover the truth about stealth in NWO.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?396031-Stealth-FAQ-vs-misconceptions-and-hysteria
You missed the inverted commas. It's more "truth".