millertime197933Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 124Bounty Hunter
edited July 2013
Continued progression is the key for long term interest in a game. One way to do that is with gear. EQ 1 started off that way. It added raids and better gear, then the next expansions added some more raids. It got to a point that the stuff that was awesome a year ago was junk, and that is ok if there is always something for players to look forward to. They later added the alternate advancement xp, which basically meant you could grind xp even though you were at level cap, and improve your character via the list of alternate advancements kills. These skills were very minor improvements to your character, but it always gave you a reason to log in and advance your character. That is another way.
The best way I have seen, is what Dungeons and Dragons online does. They have a reincarnate ability. So once you hit level cap, you reincarnate back to level 1 and start over. Your character receives a small bonus based on the class you played. The reason why this is great, is that it keeps all the content in the game viable, and it would synergize well with the foundry. Nothing really gets "outdated" like in EQ. It would be great to see Neverwinter move towards this system because not only would you always have something to works towards, it would give you opportunities to try new classes on your "main" toon. It would even make you play some classes you normally wouldn't because you would want the bonus it offers. When you play another class, it almost always makes you a better player. Play a DC and then switch to a GF, you learn how to make yourself easier to heal etc. Right now, I see a lot of folks play a toon to 60, farm or buy some purple gear. Reach the "setup" they like, then they abandon the toon because there just isnt anything to do anymore except grind dailies for AD. Then you make another toon, get them to 60, rinse and repeat. I have 5 character slots, each with a level 60 on it. I pretty much have each one in a gear setup that I really wouldnt switch out cuz it is what I think is "optimal". My only progression opportunities is to earn AD so that maybe I can upgrade an enhancement here or there.
Based on what appears to be a "ceiling" on progression, I log in less and less everyday. I might help some guildies with a dungeon delve, but I pass on all loot. I've got a million AD sitting spread out amongst all my toons, but nothing really to spend it on as most of the things that could upgrade me are way more than a million AD. I really enjoy the game, and occasionally I find a foundry that is funny or imaginative to play, but other than that, there isnt much keeping my attention. Even most of the people that I grouped with in the guild and geared up with are logging in less and less. I'm sure others who have been around since the beginning are experiencing this. The easy fix of course is not neccessarily more content, because people have blown through Gauntlgrym in what, like 2 weeks? The fix is infinite character progression. The two ways I suggested, alternate advancement (which translates quite well into the already existing feat/power points), and reincarnation would work in my opinion. I would grind the same amount of xp it took to get from 1-60 for just one feat point or one power point, or reincarnate and grind from 1-60 all over again for even the smallest of bonuses(+1% defense per GF life for example, or +1% hp for a GWF life). Just my two cents.
Gear progression is a must in any MMO, especially if you want that MMO to be successful. For some people gear progression is what they define to be fun for them. Where as other people would define their idea of fun as leveling alts, and progressing through the story.
You need a mix of both in order for the game to be successful. For me, I enjoy all aspects of an MMO, from leveling a character to max level, to farming gear, to progressing through a good story. If any one of those features were removed, or were neglected in any way that would definitely harm my gaming experience. In the end a smart company understands the complexities of it's player base and works hard to make sure they provide the best gaming experience possible.
Life is a dream for the wise, a game for the fool, a comedy for the rich, a tragedy for the poor.
~Sholom Aleichem
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maerwinMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
The game isn't out even a month. Better gear? I have been playing since around the start of open beta and I am nowhere near getting the best equip yet. Do you guys really already have the best equip with the best enchantments, all acquired without exploiting bugs and glitches?
I am not against vertical progression, but give it time. Some people rushed through the dungeons to get the best gear ASAP, but I'd say that only a small fraction of population have downed Dracolich yet.
Also, I am not against vertical progression, but horizontal progression doesn't have to be all that bad. Look at Guild Wars. You could create a character with best gear right away. And yet, the game had me hooked for 7 years.
Wooo... I can run around gear capped for another 3 months.. cough
Maybe people shouldn't no life it the end. This is a constant battle for MMO devs over the last few years as more and more people care only about being "de leetz caus I cappd yo." In fact I was just reading an article today about the financial burden players put on MMO devs because they no life it to the end game and **** the rest of the in game world.
Foundry - Fight Club? (nw-dluqbofu7)
- JailBreak (in development)
Maybe people shouldn't no life it the end. This is a constant battle for MMO devs over the last few years as more and more people care only about being "de leetz caus I cappd yo." In fact I was just reading an article today about the financial burden players put on MMO devs because they no life it to the end game and **** the rest of the in game world.
I did 1-2 delves a day and have been more or less gear capped for ~3 weeks.
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
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millertime197933Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 124Bounty Hunter
edited July 2013
Maerwyn, to answer your question, YES. Once you hit 60, you can gear up in a week or two with a full t2 set and rank 5 enhancements. You can do this by running the dungeons and getting the actual drops, or selling the ones you don't want for AD, then purchasing what you want on the AH. Doing dailies, leadership professions, and using glory to buy items then sell on AH are all ways to make plenty of AD to purchase T2 gear, that quite frankly isn't that expensive. Farming drops during dungeon delve events is also just as easy, although you end up with mixed sets, but you can of course sell and buy on the AH. A full T2 set can cost what, 250k AD to 500k AD? Half of that is the helm too. After you get the gear you want, that only leaves your enhancements. I tend to continue to farm Dungeon Delves and then use the AD from selling those items to upgrade an enhancement here and there. That is the problem, you can hit the ceiling pretty quick.
I did 1-2 delves a day and have been more or less gear capped for ~3 weeks.
Well aside from people who do actually "no life" games, NW has the compounded fact that leveling is incredibly easy and gearing up doesn't take too long either.
Foundry - Fight Club? (nw-dluqbofu7)
- JailBreak (in development)
People talk about rank 10 enchants and perfects as if they are worth having. The prices of the higher ranks are so absurd for such tiny stat upgrades. Even the Ancient weapons aren't worth what people charge for them, the boost from the 2-piece bonus is negligible to say the least. The Ancient jewelry is also not worth the cost some items go for, when you compare it to the grand pieces you are paying premium amounts for four extra points on a stat...
Do you really think that it would be wise, to add a new tier of gear, this soon after release? The power creep that would be added into the game would make things even harder for newer players to get going.
they can buy the pvp <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> for almost nothing or just sit through some pvp matches and collect.
your comment is confirming pwe/cryptic listens to the crybabies ;p who step in lvl60 pvp in green stuf without enchant/rune,good spec and cry about getting pawned.
way to go, if you want to go where wow is going because of listening to them.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited July 2013
Different doesn't mean worse.
In fact different armor sets can open up different playstyles.
In fact Aandrethegiant just reached level 60 on his GWF and if any of you have checked out those gear sets you know that only one is really worth a lot more than the rest (Avatar of War)
Typically players insist on having two Avatar of War pieces for the Crit Strike while Aandre wanted to play his GWF more tanky. His must have was the Titan's Scale and Titan's Gauntlets for the obscenely higher defense values which are normally tossed asside by other players.
We'll see if it works as well as he thinks it will...
But just because the new content won't reward visibly better items doesn't mean it won't reward items which are better to you.
In fact different armor sets can open up different playstyles.
In fact Aandrethegiant just reached level 60 on his GWF and if any of you have checked out those gear sets you know that only one is really worth a lot more than the rest (Avatar of War)
Typically players insist on having two Avatar of War pieces for the Crit Strike while Aandre wanted to play his GWF more tanky. His must have was the Titan's Scale and Titan's Gauntlets for the obscenely higher defense values which are normally tossed asside by other players.
We'll see if it works as well as he thinks it will...
But just because the new content won't reward visibly better items doesn't mean it won't reward items which are better to you.
Wow you and your comments have literally made never want to return to this game. Your going to seriously add a new module and you cannot understand why a new tier of loot should be added? Are you really serious? I was the richest guy on beholder and I basically quit the day you released GG. Its sad that sometimes good games are given to bad management teams.
I agree with Advenderkos, GG is a waste of time. And furthermore where are the raids? 5-mans are cool and all but how about some 10/15/25 man raids? Only having five man (easy) dungeons almost completely gets rid of the necessity for guilds and a high amount of team communication and cooperation (two very fun and necessary things for a successful MMO).
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skarsysMember, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Do you really think that it would be wise, to add a new tier of gear, this soon after release? The power creep that would be added into the game would make things even harder for newer players to get going.
Players can easily get T1 gear within 1 hour of hitting lvl 60. Just saying.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
Wow you and your comments have literally made never want to return to this game. Your going to seriously add a new module and you cannot understand why a new tier of loot should be added? Are you really serious? I was the richest guy on beholder and I basically quit the day you released GG. Its sad that sometimes good games are given to bad management teams.
Yeah we all would love bigger guns and more power...
But simply crushing the usefulness of T2 gear, especially this early in the game, yeah...not a good idea. Power Creep is bad.
Avoiding Power Creep = Good Management. Power Creep = Bad Management.
Dungeons sucks currently and need to be worked on. Thankfully I am fully geared and don't have to do any new ones. Please tell me at least in new dungeons there is at least 1 boss fight that is a boss fight and no ADDS. Then maybe I might do it.
In fact different armor sets can open up different playstyles.
In fact Aandrethegiant just reached level 60 on his GWF and if any of you have checked out those gear sets you know that only one is really worth a lot more than the rest (Avatar of War)
Typically players insist on having two Avatar of War pieces for the Crit Strike while Aandre wanted to play his GWF more tanky. His must have was the Titan's Scale and Titan's Gauntlets for the obscenely higher defense values which are normally tossed asside by other players.
We'll see if it works as well as he thinks it will...
But just because the new content won't reward visibly better items doesn't mean it won't reward items which are better to you.
Yea I can get along with more T2 gear if it provides build diversity and something different.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
Yea I can get along with more T2 gear if it provides build diversity and something different.
Which is my hope.
Heck I hope the current sets get a second glance because most every set effect isn't as good as using two 2 Item Set Effects. (+450 and +450)
Which is my hope.
Heck I hope the current sets get a second glance because most every set effect isn't as good as using two 2 Item Set Effects. (+450 and +450)
Yea, I would really like to see good 4x Set Bonus for Armor sets, though as a GWF none of ours are spectacular... IMO.
Either way I agree with your statements, and look forward to the expanded content!
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arontimesMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
In PnP D&D 4e, once you reach level 30, the maximum level in 4e, you begin your destiny quest, which is your character's final adventure. Once you finish your destiny quest, you achieve immortality, be it ascension to godhood or through the stories that people will tell about your character for the rest of time.
Of the four epic destinies in the Player's Handbook 1:
1. Archmage - Your name becomes associated with the spells that future wizards use. Eventually, you become one with magic itself.
2. Demigod - You transcend your mortal form and ascend into full godhood. You start with a handful of mortal worshippers which grows into a full-fledged church over time.
3. Deadly Trickster - You achieve everlasting fame or infamy. If you were heroic, tales of your exploits will be told forever. If you were villainous, cautionary tales of your misdeeds are passed on from generation to generation, for as long as people exist.
4. Eternal Seeker - None or all of the above. Your fate is your own, and you alone decide what happens to you in the end.
The 2pc +stat bonus should probably be moved away from if only because diminishing returns is sooo easy to reach. Might as well make 3%/5% damage/mitigation/cd reduction/run speed/etc 2pcs for t1/t2.
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
uhm, have to think back how i was doing, to be real honest, i wasn`t happy with the a bit sloppy way this game is handled, because it does or did have a good potential, still but i don`t feel like i have to tell everything what is wrong or how and when things could, or even should be changed.
considering pwe has to take chances or not, or well chances/gambles. about how much investment it`s worth. hiring extra brains and stuf ;p, i mean people hahaha.
(or cryptic, i don`t know, pwe bought cryptic so i treat them as one ;p)
i like to keep my thoughts minimal about it because it`s not my job.
but about gauntlething, i was totaly excited about new pvp ;p
because yes, you know how it goes after playing in the same enviroment all the time.
i still don`t know what`s needed to acces it ;p but joined a guild for it, but after seeing the TR loot i didn`t even feel like going to gauntle. (seriously doubt if new t2 content gives anything better then the 2xpower bonus from 2 sets)
also a bit worried about my skills, besides it`s mixed pvp and pve ? while i can`t chance specs.
instead saving up for rank 10 enchants and hope to slap some, make them cry, and pwe goes changing stuf again lol.
no not the realy the last part, but just hope to enjoy the stuf where i worked hard for ;p
i just watched that power creep stuf, can`t believe people actualy believe in that ;p
about old content being abandoned, as you just see what i type, i and i don`t know how many others don`t even play new content
because of lack of loot.
surely i play it, to experience it for fun, but much, no.
if you don`t want to set power creep stuf on it, make good visual loot with same stats.
(or less stats i don`t care, can change appearance anyway
i`m out ;p realy boring if i have to tell these obvious stuf.
Yeah we all would love bigger guns and more power...
But simply crushing the usefulness of T2 gear, especially this early in the game, yeah...not a good idea. Power Creep is bad.
Avoiding Power Creep = Good Management. Power Creep = Bad Management.
Please stop posting its worrying, it really is. Concerns of "power creep" when we are only at the first few dungeons are quite hilarious. I guess it is an issue to THINK about in the background but..... already?
The game has been out for months and there is little to no reason to play it, this is what you should be concerned about.
Please stop posting its worrying, it really is. Concerns of "power creep" when we are only at the first few dungeons are quite hilarious. I guess it is an issue to THINK about in the background but..... already?
The game has been out for months and there is little to no reason to play it, this is what you should be concerned about.
Powercreep is like ants.
You see a couple ants in your house and you are like...hmmm an ant....must me lost. next thing you know a million of them are carrying your maple syrup bottle across the kitchen floor.
I agree that power creep is bad but if you are worried about that then a full T2 set of items should not be able to be acquired in a matters of days (and full 60 pvp gear within a matter of hours). I'd say the vast majority of people who have been playing since the start of open beta are gear'd in full T2 gear and now have little reason to play, myself included.
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adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
I'd say the vast majority of people who have been playing since the start of open beta are gear'd in full T2 gear and now have little reason to play, myself included.
Well, I have been playing since beginning of open beta, and I have pretty much gotten the T2/2.5/BiS stuff - some from drops, some from the AH, but if I was focusing on my gear, I still have a long way to go - for example, I "only" have level 7 enchants in all slots, I don't have perfect weapon/armor enhancements, and I haven't upgraded my miracle healer gauntlets to the reinforced version (simply because my mailsmithing level is only 19)
However, to me, this is not about the gear - there are some dungeons that I don't consider myself to have fully mastered, there are achievement points I don't have yet, there are titles that I am missing, and so on .... there's a lot of things to do even when you have the gear.
I agree it might be fun to get the higher enchantments/upgrades if they were necessary for end game bosses, but they are not. I can farm 3 Tier 2 dungeon during a DD with my T2 set + level 7 enchants just fine. I don't want to spend many hours/Ad getting gear that is not necessary for progression.
Comments
The best way I have seen, is what Dungeons and Dragons online does. They have a reincarnate ability. So once you hit level cap, you reincarnate back to level 1 and start over. Your character receives a small bonus based on the class you played. The reason why this is great, is that it keeps all the content in the game viable, and it would synergize well with the foundry. Nothing really gets "outdated" like in EQ. It would be great to see Neverwinter move towards this system because not only would you always have something to works towards, it would give you opportunities to try new classes on your "main" toon. It would even make you play some classes you normally wouldn't because you would want the bonus it offers. When you play another class, it almost always makes you a better player. Play a DC and then switch to a GF, you learn how to make yourself easier to heal etc. Right now, I see a lot of folks play a toon to 60, farm or buy some purple gear. Reach the "setup" they like, then they abandon the toon because there just isnt anything to do anymore except grind dailies for AD. Then you make another toon, get them to 60, rinse and repeat. I have 5 character slots, each with a level 60 on it. I pretty much have each one in a gear setup that I really wouldnt switch out cuz it is what I think is "optimal". My only progression opportunities is to earn AD so that maybe I can upgrade an enhancement here or there.
Based on what appears to be a "ceiling" on progression, I log in less and less everyday. I might help some guildies with a dungeon delve, but I pass on all loot. I've got a million AD sitting spread out amongst all my toons, but nothing really to spend it on as most of the things that could upgrade me are way more than a million AD. I really enjoy the game, and occasionally I find a foundry that is funny or imaginative to play, but other than that, there isnt much keeping my attention. Even most of the people that I grouped with in the guild and geared up with are logging in less and less. I'm sure others who have been around since the beginning are experiencing this. The easy fix of course is not neccessarily more content, because people have blown through Gauntlgrym in what, like 2 weeks? The fix is infinite character progression. The two ways I suggested, alternate advancement (which translates quite well into the already existing feat/power points), and reincarnation would work in my opinion. I would grind the same amount of xp it took to get from 1-60 for just one feat point or one power point, or reincarnate and grind from 1-60 all over again for even the smallest of bonuses(+1% defense per GF life for example, or +1% hp for a GWF life). Just my two cents.
You need a mix of both in order for the game to be successful. For me, I enjoy all aspects of an MMO, from leveling a character to max level, to farming gear, to progressing through a good story. If any one of those features were removed, or were neglected in any way that would definitely harm my gaming experience. In the end a smart company understands the complexities of it's player base and works hard to make sure they provide the best gaming experience possible.
Life is a dream for the wise, a game for the fool, a comedy for the rich, a tragedy for the poor.
~Sholom Aleichem
I am not against vertical progression, but give it time. Some people rushed through the dungeons to get the best gear ASAP, but I'd say that only a small fraction of population have downed Dracolich yet.
Also, I am not against vertical progression, but horizontal progression doesn't have to be all that bad. Look at Guild Wars. You could create a character with best gear right away. And yet, the game had me hooked for 7 years.
NW-DMFGWPBN3 The Lost City - Review Thread
Maybe people shouldn't no life it the end. This is a constant battle for MMO devs over the last few years as more and more people care only about being "de leetz caus I cappd yo." In fact I was just reading an article today about the financial burden players put on MMO devs because they no life it to the end game and **** the rest of the in game world.
- JailBreak (in development)
I did 1-2 delves a day and have been more or less gear capped for ~3 weeks.
Well aside from people who do actually "no life" games, NW has the compounded fact that leveling is incredibly easy and gearing up doesn't take too long either.
- JailBreak (in development)
they can buy the pvp <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> for almost nothing or just sit through some pvp matches and collect.
your comment is confirming pwe/cryptic listens to the crybabies ;p who step in lvl60 pvp in green stuf without enchant/rune,good spec and cry about getting pawned.
way to go, if you want to go where wow is going because of listening to them.
In fact different armor sets can open up different playstyles.
In fact Aandrethegiant just reached level 60 on his GWF and if any of you have checked out those gear sets you know that only one is really worth a lot more than the rest (Avatar of War)
Typically players insist on having two Avatar of War pieces for the Crit Strike while Aandre wanted to play his GWF more tanky. His must have was the Titan's Scale and Titan's Gauntlets for the obscenely higher defense values which are normally tossed asside by other players.
We'll see if it works as well as he thinks it will...
But just because the new content won't reward visibly better items doesn't mean it won't reward items which are better to you.
How are you doing tonight
Life is a dream for the wise, a game for the fool, a comedy for the rich, a tragedy for the poor.
~Sholom Aleichem
Wow you and your comments have literally made never want to return to this game. Your going to seriously add a new module and you cannot understand why a new tier of loot should be added? Are you really serious? I was the richest guy on beholder and I basically quit the day you released GG. Its sad that sometimes good games are given to bad management teams.
Players can easily get T1 gear within 1 hour of hitting lvl 60. Just saying.
Look up Power Creep.
Yeah we all would love bigger guns and more power...
But simply crushing the usefulness of T2 gear, especially this early in the game, yeah...not a good idea. Power Creep is bad.
Avoiding Power Creep = Good Management. Power Creep = Bad Management.
Yea I can get along with more T2 gear if it provides build diversity and something different.
Which is my hope.
Heck I hope the current sets get a second glance because most every set effect isn't as good as using two 2 Item Set Effects. (+450 and +450)
Either way I agree with your statements, and look forward to the expanded content!
Of the four epic destinies in the Player's Handbook 1:
1. Archmage - Your name becomes associated with the spells that future wizards use. Eventually, you become one with magic itself.
2. Demigod - You transcend your mortal form and ascend into full godhood. You start with a handful of mortal worshippers which grows into a full-fledged church over time.
3. Deadly Trickster - You achieve everlasting fame or infamy. If you were heroic, tales of your exploits will be told forever. If you were villainous, cautionary tales of your misdeeds are passed on from generation to generation, for as long as people exist.
4. Eternal Seeker - None or all of the above. Your fate is your own, and you alone decide what happens to you in the end.
Taking a break from Neverwinter indefinitely...
uhm, have to think back how i was doing, to be real honest, i wasn`t happy with the a bit sloppy way this game is handled, because it does or did have a good potential, still but i don`t feel like i have to tell everything what is wrong or how and when things could, or even should be changed.
considering pwe has to take chances or not, or well chances/gambles. about how much investment it`s worth. hiring extra brains and stuf ;p, i mean people hahaha.
(or cryptic, i don`t know, pwe bought cryptic so i treat them as one ;p)
i like to keep my thoughts minimal about it because it`s not my job.
but about gauntlething, i was totaly excited about new pvp ;p
because yes, you know how it goes after playing in the same enviroment all the time.
i still don`t know what`s needed to acces it ;p but joined a guild for it, but after seeing the TR loot i didn`t even feel like going to gauntle. (seriously doubt if new t2 content gives anything better then the 2xpower bonus from 2 sets)
also a bit worried about my skills, besides it`s mixed pvp and pve ? while i can`t chance specs.
instead saving up for rank 10 enchants and hope to slap some, make them cry, and pwe goes changing stuf again lol.
no not the realy the last part, but just hope to enjoy the stuf where i worked hard for ;p
about old content being abandoned, as you just see what i type, i and i don`t know how many others don`t even play new content
because of lack of loot.
surely i play it, to experience it for fun, but much, no.
if you don`t want to set power creep stuf on it, make good visual loot with same stats.
(or less stats i don`t care, can change appearance anyway
i`m out ;p realy boring if i have to tell these obvious stuf.
Please stop posting its worrying, it really is. Concerns of "power creep" when we are only at the first few dungeons are quite hilarious. I guess it is an issue to THINK about in the background but..... already?
The game has been out for months and there is little to no reason to play it, this is what you should be concerned about.
Powercreep is like ants.
You see a couple ants in your house and you are like...hmmm an ant....must me lost. next thing you know a million of them are carrying your maple syrup bottle across the kitchen floor.
Well, I have been playing since beginning of open beta, and I have pretty much gotten the T2/2.5/BiS stuff - some from drops, some from the AH, but if I was focusing on my gear, I still have a long way to go - for example, I "only" have level 7 enchants in all slots, I don't have perfect weapon/armor enhancements, and I haven't upgraded my miracle healer gauntlets to the reinforced version (simply because my mailsmithing level is only 19)
However, to me, this is not about the gear - there are some dungeons that I don't consider myself to have fully mastered, there are achievement points I don't have yet, there are titles that I am missing, and so on .... there's a lot of things to do even when you have the gear.