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Forums > Home› Neverwinter Discussion › General Discussion (PC)

Where's the T3?

hmmrsmshfacehmmrsmshface Member Posts: 19 Arc User
edited July 2013 in General Discussion (PC)
I figured T3 gear would be available in the upcoming Fury of the Feywild module and was surprised that it's just more t1/t2. What is the point of adding new content if you can't get better gear? I think there should be a constant progression of increasing difficulty with each new dungeon/module added (should have been done w/ Gauntylgrym). Thoughts???
Post edited by hmmrsmshface on
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Comments

  • ceryndrionceryndrion Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Do you really think that it would be wise, to add a new tier of gear, this soon after release? The power creep that would be added into the game would make things even harder for newer players to get going.
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  • etherealjetherealj Member Posts: 1,091 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    What we can hope is that Module 1 comes with:

    -Armor with a better set bonus for each each spec for classes
    - 2 stat very rare jewelry
    - Very rare belts with offensive slots
    - gear sets built for companions (icon neck ring sets, etc)

    Stuff you might want even if you have best in slot gear right now.

    If this stuff ends up pure side grades to existing gear, it might be a very unexciting dungeon.
    Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
  • hmmrsmshfacehmmrsmshface Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I just think there needs to be some sort of incentive to do new dungeons. What is the point of doing GG or new dungeons for a tier of gear that is equal or lower than what you have?
  • amberongreenamberongreen Member Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    hmmrsmshface wrote: »
    I just think there needs to be some sort of incentive to do new dungeons. What is the point of doing GG or new dungeons for a tier of gear that is equal or lower than what you have?

    This kind of statement always makes me foam at the mouth. The incentive to do the dungeons is because you like playing the damned game.
  • etherealjetherealj Member Posts: 1,091 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    amberongreen wrote: »
    This kind of statement always makes me foam at the mouth. The incentive to do the dungeons is because you like playing the damned game.

    Grow up. Even adventurers do it for the loot sometimes.
    Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
  • toughguyloltoughguylol Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    amberongreen wrote: »
    This kind of statement always makes me foam at the mouth. The incentive to do the dungeons is because you like playing the damned game.

    what is enjoyable about endgame content besides the loot? interesting boss fight mechanics?
  • destroxoxodestroxoxo Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Wooo... I can run around gear capped for another 3 months.. cough
  • ordensmarschallordensmarschall Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1,060 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    At what point do you stop adding more powerful gear? The problem is they started out with rather powerful gear already with the T2 items. The basic game is built around the idea that once you character hits 60th(30th in D&D terms) it retires and you start a new one. At a certain point your weapon/spells will be so powerful that in order to continue to provide a challenge Kobolds would need to have a million hit points, that is a bit ridiculous. Think about it, I mean we are already going up against near demi-gods in game terms.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • destroxoxodestroxoxo Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    ordensmarschall wrote: »
    At what point do you stop adding more powerful gear? The problem is they started out with rather powerful gear already with the T2 items. The basic game is built around the idea that once you character hits 60th(30th in D&D terms) it retires and you start a new one. At a certain point your weapon/spells will be so powerful that in order to continue to provide a challenge Kobolds would need to have a million hit points, that is a bit ridiculous. Think about it, I mean we are already going up against near demi-gods in game terms.

    Or they could just give said Kobolds actual game mechanics which would be a skill check rather than a run around with adds check.
  • etherealjetherealj Member Posts: 1,091 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    ordensmarschall wrote: »
    At what point do you stop adding more powerful gear? The problem is they started out with rather powerful gear already with the T2 items. The basic game is built around the idea that once you character hits 60th(30th in D&D terms) it retires and you start a new one. At a certain point your weapon/spells will be so powerful that in order to continue to provide a challenge Kobolds would need to have a million hit points, that is a bit ridiculous. Think about it, I mean we are already going up against near demi-gods in game terms.

    It would be a colossal screw up to cap gear progression before a game is even launched. Just saying. Character progression is an intrinsic part of any game with an exp bar. The passive buff portion of the new module rewards looks interesting too. Maybe the designers realized scores of players basically have all their stats at diminishing returns.

    There needs to be something to do besides gear each new class that gets released with the items that have been in game since May and earlier.
    Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
  • ordensmarschallordensmarschall Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1,060 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    Skill checks would be nice once they added that to the mechanics of the game. Even with skill checks though, kobolds are only supposed to be so difficult, they see a 60th level coming through with T2 gear they should be running away not fighting.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • etherealjetherealj Member Posts: 1,091 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    ordensmarschall wrote: »
    Skill checks would be nice once they added that to the mechanics of the game. Even with skill checks though, kobolds are only supposed to be so difficult, they see a 60th level coming through with T2 gear they should be running away not fighting.

    Or they just have class levels...

    One nice thing about the DnD universe is that it's almost impossible to run out of foes. Unless your DM lets you hit max level in 20 hours of Foundry spam and puts out dungeon maps with hilarious bugs.
    Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
  • ordensmarschallordensmarschall Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1,060 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    etherealj wrote: »
    It would be a colossal screw up to cap gear progression before a game is even launched. Just saying. Character progression is an intrinsic part of any game with an exp bar. The passive buff portion of the new module rewards looks interesting too. Maybe the designers realized scores of players basically have all their stats at diminishing returns.

    There needs to be something to do besides gear each new class that gets released with the items that have been in game since May and earlier.
    Your right many people play for the continual progression of their character. I think the problem is going to be that the game released allowing you to go from 0 to 60 with only a few classes/races/gear. Now they have bolt on all of the other classes/races/gear. It seems as though they should have released only 0-10 with many more classes/races/gear and built it up from there. Of course that would mean people would be complaining about lack of endgame material after only 6 hours rather than 2 days. Again though I ask question when do stop increasing the power? After you are killing gods? We are almost there already.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • etherealjetherealj Member Posts: 1,091 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    ordensmarschall wrote: »
    Your right many people play for the continual progression of their character. I think the problem is going to be that the game released allowing you to go from 0 to 60 with only a few classes/races/gear. Now they have bolt on all of the other classes/races/gear. It seems as though they should have released only 0-10 with many more classes/races/gear and built it up from there. Of course that would mean people would be complaining about lack of endgame material after only 6 hours rather than 2 days. Again though I ask question when do stop increasing the power? After you are killing gods? We are almost there already.

    Cryptic has a great opportunity to add both paragon paths and t1/t2 sets directed at each possible spec. Improve/Fix current sets to support the different trees and add more sets as more paths come out. Customization increases tremendously, content gets run by treasure seekers, AND average power levels stay reasonably constant.
    Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
  • destroxoxodestroxoxo Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    ordensmarschall wrote: »
    Your right many people play for the continual progression of their character. I think the problem is going to be that the game released allowing you to go from 0 to 60 with only a few classes/races/gear. Now they have bolt on all of the other classes/races/gear. It seems as though they should have released only 0-10 with many more classes/races/gear and built it up from there. Of course that would mean people would be complaining about lack of endgame material after only 6 hours rather than 2 days. Again though I ask question when do stop increasing the power? After you are killing gods? We are almost there already.

    Both player and environment scale though, Environment being scaled first and then gear continually scaling the player up equally or past the environment. Example a new dungeon comes out the bosses are all hard (jokes its Neverwinter... cough nevemind i'll continue) the players have a hard time due to the previous gear they are wearing, they slowly progress through gaining more gear and hence gaining more boss kills, this repeats over and over until they release Hard Modes for the same bosses or an entirely new Dungeon tier with gear.

    Many people label this the "Gear Treadmill" and say its boring blah blah, but guess what, most of the people who are raiding ENJOY THIS.. people love the feeling of finally killing a boss you and your mates have been working/gearing towards for a long time... it's fun! And the casual players can achieve the same thing but just in a longer time period/non Hard Mode version.
  • etherealjetherealj Member Posts: 1,091 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    Horizontal Progression is a poisonous idea that has been ****ting up MMOs for awhile now. Look at Defiance.
    Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
  • ordensmarschallordensmarschall Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1,060 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    etherealj wrote: »
    Cryptic has a great opportunity to add both paragon paths and t1/t2 sets directed at each possible spec. Improve/Fix current sets to support the different trees and add more sets as more paths come out. Customization increases tremendously, content gets run by treasure seekers, AND average power levels stay reasonably constant.
    Your are correct, they can now add all of the other stuff that has been hinted at/promised for a while now. I don't mind that, I do not need constant gear upgrades to enjoy the game. The problem as I see it, is that many people will be like the OP, where is my T3, T4, T5,...T10 gear? They could care less about a Dragonborn Blackguard or a Drow Warlock being possible, while for me that would keep my interest. I, however am not the core market PWE is aiming for.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • destroxoxodestroxoxo Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    etherealj wrote: »
    Horizontal Progression is a poisonous idea that has been ****ting up MMOs for awhile now. Look at Defiance.

    THIS.. so many new MMO's I have gone to, big example GW2 (and neverwinter) have all tried to revolutionise something they thought was a problem when in fact it is a major attention grabber at max level "Progression" ... as much HAMSTER as they give this said term there is a tonne of people who love it.

    I quit WoW after 7 years to go to GW2, hit max level, got all the gear in about a week.. nothing else to do so I spent a month farming endlessly to get my Legendary Twilight, it was totally worth all that time and effort for something that felt literally legendary and only 1 other person on my server had another legendary as well, but after that again there was nothing more to do so I quit.

    Gear treadmill/progression is what keeps a whole lot of players involved in an MMO
  • ordensmarschallordensmarschall Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1,060 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    destroxoxo wrote: »
    people love the feeling of finally killing a boss you and your mates have been working/gearing towards for a long time... it's fun!
    This game is not working out like that. In order to go kill the boss, you already have to have the gear, not be working to get it.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • etherealjetherealj Member Posts: 1,091 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    ordensmarschall wrote: »
    Your are correct, they can now add all of the other stuff that has been hinted at/promised for a while now. I don't mind that, I do not need constant gear upgrades to enjoy the game. The problem as I see it, is that many people will be like the OP, where is my T3, T4, T5,...T10 gear? They could care less about a Dragonborn Blackguard or a Drow Warlock being possible, while for me that would keep my interest. I, however am not the core market PWE is aiming for.

    I don't make alts. I will likely play just my GF until either I quit NW or another leveling path comes out because repeating quests drives me a bit nuts. I don't care about new races or classes usually.

    I just want more encounters to defeat but they need appropriate rewards.
    Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
  • destroxoxodestroxoxo Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    ordensmarschall wrote: »
    This game is not working out like that. In order to go kill the boss, you already have to have the gear, not be working to get it.

    What boss are you struggling on?

    I literally found none of the dungeons difficult at all until halfway through Spellplague caverns, but after doing a few attempts we found we could aggro only the bosses spawned adds and not the whole room, it became easy after that, and no we weren't geared.
  • ordensmarschallordensmarschall Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1,060 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    Again though where does the progression end? In old PnP terms a high level Paladin with his +5 Holy Avenger would go through skeletons like a scythe through so much wheat. The game for all intense and purposes is there already, if it weren't for the artificial scaling mechanic, gear wise. As has been noted numerous times already in other posts just increasing the size of the horde is not very satisfying for most players.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ordensmarschallordensmarschall Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1,060 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    destroxoxo wrote: »
    What boss are you struggling on?

    I literally found none of the dungeons difficult at all until halfway through Spellplague caverns, but after doing a few attempts we found we could aggro only the bosses spawned adds and not the whole room, it became easy after that, and no we weren't geared.
    That was not what I meant. Look at the chat postings asking for groups, the vast majority are asking for people who already have the gear to beat the dungeon. Very few of them are people looking for somebody to help them get the gear, but that is a different discussion.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • hmmrsmshfacehmmrsmshface Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Agreed. In order to play an MMO I need the feeling of some sort of progression. I for one and somebody who enjoys the "gear treadmill".
  • alkuzaralkuzar Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    destroxoxo wrote: »
    Wooo... I can run around gear capped for another 3 months.. cough

    So you have full rank 10 and perfect enchantments on you and your companion?
    Wizard.jpg
    Alkuzar, Level 60 12k+ GS Control Wizard
  • loverboyusaloverboyusa Member Posts: 61
    edited July 2013
    The castle never items from the last bosses chest is basicly T3. Seeing as there are 2 sets of a weaker and a then stronger set available thru other dungeons. Then theres CN which geves even better stats. So CN i basicly just call T3 items
    happy days!
  • kattefjaeskattefjaes Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 2,270 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    alkuzar wrote: »
    So you have full rank 10 and perfect enchantments on you and your companion?

    A surprising number of people seemed to achieve large amounts of completely legitimate perfects at once, around the time of the AH and duping bugs, especially people in teen angst PvP guilds. Since they're gear capped, the only things they can do for progression are upping the trolling and exploiting :)
  • amordreadamordread Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    ordensmarschall wrote: »
    Your right many people play for the continual progression of their character. I think the problem is going to be that the game released allowing you to go from 0 to 60 with only a few classes/races/gear. Now they have bolt on all of the other classes/races/gear. It seems as though they should have released only 0-10 with many more classes/races/gear and built it up from there. Of course that would mean people would be complaining about lack of endgame material after only 6 hours rather than 2 days. Again though I ask question when do stop increasing the power? After you are killing gods? We are almost there already.

    I really wonder what will happen when that character progression leads to godhood. I realized that after killing a black dragon at level 43 which also makes it possible to run out of foes if you're wasting them that quick. I guess level 60 means something like DnD (3.5 edition) 30+ epic levels. Then comes divine levels... I have no idea about 4th edition (which is a big failure) but I know that in FR and DnD , to kill an adult black dragon you have to be so close to the limits of your mortal powers and it's a limit you can't pass without having divine levels. Which is impossible in this game.

    Also I'm used to mmos where we try to get gear for pvp. Here I feel like i'm fighting for gear only to get a chance for a better gear. It's going to get really boring for me after a while. I'm having much more fun while using my gear on real people not on npcs. Instead of a t3 I'd love to have a pvp based content like guild or faction wars with ranks and achievements. But I guess I'm alone.
  • khatzhaskhatzhas Member Posts: 268 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    amordread wrote: »
    I really wonder what will happen when that character progression leads to godhood. I realized that after killing a black dragon at level 43 which also makes it possible to run out of foes if you're wasting them that quick. I guess level 60 means something like DnD (3.5 edition) 30+ epic levels. Then comes divine levels... I have no idea about 4th edition (which is a big failure) but I know that in FR and DnD , to kill an adult black dragon you have to be so close to the limits of your mortal powers and it's a limit you can't pass without having divine levels. Which is impossible in this game.
    Sounds like you're making assumptions based off earlier versions of D&D.
    I understand that its unlikely you know much about the edition that NW is based on. Even in the earlier edition (3.5) however, you did not need to be close to max level to kill an adult black dragon. Unless FR dragons are significantly different, a party above level 10 would have a shot at killing one. Divine levels only start being an option after Epic levels, which you start hitting post level 20.

    I'd guess that level 60 in the game isn't even equivalent to level 20 in 3.5. Possibly even lower.
  • etherealjetherealj Member Posts: 1,091 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    loverboyusa wrote: »
    The castle never items from the last bosses chest is basicly T3. Seeing as there are 2 sets of a weaker and a then stronger set available thru other dungeons. Then theres CN which geves even better stats. So CN i basicly just call T3 items

    There is no armor equivalent of the ancient weapons from CN. Not exactly sure what you are referring to?
    Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
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