Community Moderators encouraging this attitude is just the icing on the cake tbh.
I don't recall encouraging it?
I pointed out that players will always want higher GS players with them.
But I also pointed out how GS can be completely misleading.
I'm not going to paint rainbows and butterflies. Players will be players and nothing can change that. I do my own thing which often is very 'if it takes us four hours I'll be happy' but many/most players don't and I'm not going to say otherwise.
Apologies, no offense intended ofc, but you must admit these comments could easily be taken the wrong way?
If the cleric is peeling threat off of you just by walking past mobs and you have the higher gear score you better not expect to ever do anything besides PvP.
That's not a game issue. A halfway decent GF will lock down aggro.
It's not an attack against you personally, more that as a CM your comments will be taken more seriously than your average poster and often considered more in line with PWE/Cryptics agenda.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited July 2013
I couldn't care less if it takes all day do do anything as long as it's done to the best of the player's abilities...
That GF couldn't get anything done. That frustrated me so much I wanted to throw five dollars at him or bar him from ever wasting other people's time by doing PvE again. I respect players who have a learning curb to overcome and will gladly help them out and I respect players who are trying their best or are simply lack knowledge.
However that was probably the only player who ever wanted to legitimately play the game that I never want to see on my side in PvE ever again. He wasn't a bad player but he didn't plan on doing anything besides PvP and it made him complete dead weight. You can do your role badly and have my respect but you need to do your role at least to some moderate amount.
That's not elitism. Could maybe be perceived as such but it's not.
At some point players have to function or even the casuals will get angry.
I couldn't care less if it takes all day do do anything as long as it's done to the best of the player's abilities...
That GF couldn't get anything done. That frustrated me so much I wanted to throw five dollars at him or bar him from ever wasting other people's time by doing PvE again. I respect players who have a learning curb to overcome and will gladly help them out and I respect players who are trying their best or are simply lack knowledge.
However that was probably the only player who ever wanted to legitimately play the game that I never want to see on my side in PvE ever again. He wasn't a bad player but he didn't plan on doing anything besides PvP and it made him complete dead weight. You can do your role badly and have my respect but you need to do your role at least to some moderate amount.
That's not elitism. Could maybe be perceived as such but it's not.
At some point players have to function or even the casuals will get angry.
Maybe I missed out but one question. Did you tell him he's in wrong spec and needs to respec for the tank role?
Because if you did and he refused you had all rights to replace him with a tank in tank spec.
It is like in WoW if a warrior in fury spec want to tank heroic no one will play with him.
There is such a wide range of player 'skills'. While it maybe ok to demand X amount of gearscore, experience or ability for high end dungeons, you are alienating a huge portion of your player base and pushing them out of the game.
Some people simply don't have it in them to perform at the extreme levels that the majority of players demand from you for you to even join their groups. And whats wrong with that? Don't you want more players to enjoy your games? For those players, what does a new game with limited end game content have to offer? Well, nothing basically, and all it results in is those players quitting the game.
You are left with a bunch of elitists that know every trick in the book to get the most currency or items out of the game with the minimal amount of effort. Imo these players will be the least likely to spend any real cash on the game as they know all the ways around the systems to get everything for free. This in turn encourages others to simply buy the gear they need from the AH once they have accumulated enough AD(which is probably about a week as the AH is so flooded with items)then join a group with their newly aquired 11k GS only to have no idea of what to do once inside a dungeon.
While there are only very few instances available in the game, imo the fights should be toned down to allow the full range of players to experience and enjoy the content. Bring the hard content later once more players have gotten used to the game and at least provide options for all level of player skills.
As it is, only full Tier 2 geared/experienced players can get into/complete Dungeons that drop...Tier 2 loot...wait, what?
Don't get me wrong I think this is a fantastic game but lately I have been less compelled to play because running an instance is far too stressful because of elitist quitters and moaners who would rather abandon a group and waste 4 other peoples time than stick it out and try and have fun with other people or do the unthinkable and try and impart some of their knowledge onto others.
Community Moderators encouraging this attitude is just the icing on the cake tbh.
That's why T1 exists. It's exactly what you want. A mindless zerg fest in which any skill layout will do the job. You're free to ask for more T1 dungeons, but don't ask cryptic to force everyone to play T1 stuff please. There are many people having fun in T2 currently. Even in CN. Those instances are fine.
I'm sure there are, my point was that there are even more people that would love to run the instances but aren't being given the opportunity due to ridiculous demands such as 11k GS. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the best players ever to grace an MMo have been shelved because their GS is too low or they lack the experience of a particular instance.
It also seems a bit counter productive from a players PoV to be expected to have a full set of T2 gear just to be able to run an instance that drops the same level of gear. There isn't any insentive other than farming purples to put on the AH. I'm guessing it was intended for there to be more than just the auction house or accumlation of some currency as the driving force to play the game.
I know there are some that enjoy just running instances and killing stuff but I'm referring to the player base as a whole. It all seems very selective:
That's not a game issue. A halfway decent GF will lock down aggro. The Guardian Fighter is the only class which actively attempts to generate threat (except for some select Sentinel GWF feats/powers)
Since the threat mechanics were changed GF's can lock down entire rooms of mobs depending on how they are built. A tactician GF will literally pull mobs from across the room but no GF should lose the aggro of the monsters they are actively attacking.
The only time I have ever seen that happen since the threat mechanics were changed was this GF with 13K Gear Score. He had the highest gear score on the team but he was the least effective part of the team because his GS couldn't compensate with the fact his GF build failed to fill the GF role.
That is what happens when the other trees are rather underpowered in comparison to the dps one. There are far more DPS GFs than the other two. That GF was just focusing on dmg and not holding aggro, but that isn't uncommon nor a surprise until they actually fix the tank role. There is a feat that doesn't even work, and the fact you only gain an extra 2% mitigation from it and guard isn't that great even with feats.
I'm sure there are, my point was that there are even more people that would love to run the instances but aren't being given the opportunity due to ridiculous demands such as 11k GS. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the best players ever to grace an MMo have been shelved because their GS is too low or they lack the experience of a particular instance.
It also seems a bit counter productive from a players PoV to be expected to have a full set of T2 gear just to be able to run an instance that drops the same level of gear. There isn't any insentive other than farming purples to put on the AH. I'm guessing it was intended for there to be more than just the auction house or accumlation of some currency as the driving force to play the game.
I know there are some that enjoy just running instances and killing stuff but I'm referring to the player base as a whole. It all seems very selective:
'You must be this tall to go on this ride..'
This is only a zone chat requirement. I've never seen anyone kicked because the GS was too low in a public queue though. I'm not saying it never happened, i'm just saying it should be rare. People (like myself occasionally) on zone chat are looking for one thing: an increased success rate. This means that we don't always want to carry a dead weight and do the job so that he can loot his chest at the end. Sometimes, i want to play for myself too. That doesn't mean i'm not ok to help. Many people in my guild have quite low playing abilities. That's ok. I do dungeons with them and give them tips, out of the DD event, and i hope they learn something.
By the way, most of the times, the requirements on zone chats are around 10k which means you have to get a full T1 set and get some rank 5 or 6 gems, which increases the chances that you've spent some time in game and master all of the T1 dungeons. Then you're ready for T2. If you want to skip a part of the learning curve that's ok, but not in my zone chat DD event groups, thank you.
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mrexploiterMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 24Arc User
edited July 2013
In my opinion, I think that gear requirements are a little low (for T2's at least), but for the most part it's all about a player's individual skill. Some dungeons are also undertuned whereas others can be considered overtuned. I raided hardcore in WoW for a very long time, and I think that a player's skill can make up for what they lack in gear most of the time. I feel like if the achievement system on here was tweaked a little and players are allowed to link their accomplishments (or see how many times they defeated certain bosses on a given difficulty), people would be more inclined to lower their 'ideal' GS requirements.
So you can either tank OR dps OR heal yourself. Sounds ok to me. It's a player issue if you complain about not being able do to all this at the same time. If you have trouble finding a good DC, it's another player issue. Most of them don't know how to play with a GF in the team and keep using aoe heals like FF instead of the single target one we have. :rolleyes:
Because a Tank class having the innate ability to taunt and generate threat would completely imbalance the game! Wait...
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derpaderpistMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
people just demand that everyone to be horrendously overgeared for everything.
it's like that in every MMO. no different here.
it's just how it is.
People demand high GS for DD because they are doing speed runs , and a 8,4k gs TR in SP won't
cut it if you want to pull 3 runs in 1 DD .
Get your facts straight before posting nonsense .
And yes ofc people want overgeared others in their groups for doing dailies ( wow hc daily anyone ? lol ) and game events , which in this case happens to be Dungeon Delves .
You can't blame people for desiring a well geared group instead of bunch of " exp'd" 8,4k randoms .
I'm tired of looking at the forums people complaining all the time about GS , when you're going for
maximum runs in one DD event you need well geared ( the best geared you can find ) & experienced
people to achieve this goal .
Don't get so butthurt and start farming gear or just buy the gear from the AH or something noone
cares .
What people care about while doing dungeons during the DD is speed , nothing else .
" We live in an age of the cheaply made, disposable, high priced junk. " - theunwarshed
Have a read of number 7, even though the guy that posted it forgot the word 'know' in the first part of the sentence. I guess it goes with the territory of the term :rolleyes:
Actually it is a game issue. As a GF you simple cannot build threat unless you have the right combination of powers and feats. This also means sacrificing feats which can help with survivability and it means sacrificing a slot to put in a power that doesn't do anything other than build threat.
In a pug group as a tank, healers are a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> shoot. You can either power yourself to stay alive, or power yourself in hopes you will get good heals.
I really have to agree with this post. Both GF & GWF threat should be based on a passive class feature not a feat or paragon point spending. You should not have to spec in to tanking at the cost of being capable of doing anything else. If we had free dual spec swapping this would be acceptable but as it stands now being forced to chose between a tank set of abilities which will gimp your performance in pvp sucks!
I'd say the nonsense is running 3 dungeons during DD.
Some, not all. Running Spellplague three times in one DD is nonsense. There has to be a catch somewhere. An exploit, bug, something, taken advantage of.
Someone asked for a rogue yesterday for SP. Told the person that I'd go, and was asked my gs. Told them 10k+. I know the fight, I don't die on the last boss until someone else is completely dead and it's a wipe, and do great damage. Of course, I didn't get a response, and the person was still looking for a rogue. What I did get for a response was a tell from that person trying to invite a different rogue with a slightly higher gs, that posted long after I posted. They didn't take the invite.
Players need to grow some and stop worrying about a couple points in gs.
TL : DR? Then don't waste my time responding.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
Ok no0b question because I'am a no0b. How do you get your GS to 11k or even 13k as some people claim? I have all the gear from Trades of Blades and Im sitting at around 7.9k. Is there another level of equipment that Im oblivious about?
People demand high GS for DD because they are doing speed runs , and a 8,4k gs TR in SP won't
cut it if you want to pull 3 runs in 1 DD .
Get your facts straight before posting nonsense .
And yes ofc people want overgeared others in their groups for doing dailies ( wow hc daily anyone ? lol ) and game events , which in this case happens to be Dungeon Delves .
You can't blame people for desiring a well geared group instead of bunch of " exp'd" 8,4k randoms .
I'm tired of looking at the forums people complaining all the time about GS , when you're going for
maximum runs in one DD event you need well geared ( the best geared you can find ) & experienced
people to achieve this goal .
Don't get so butthurt and start farming gear or just buy the gear from the AH or something noone
cares .
What people care about while doing dungeons during the DD is speed , nothing else .
well you certainly live up to your forum handle.
I said what you said. I just used less words.
I offered no opinion on whether it was a good thing, or a bad thing, I said "that's just how it is."
so I'm not sure how you came to the assumption that I was "butthurt" about anything.
fact is, most Players want you to have the absolute top of the line epic highest GS gear you can possibly have, to do a level 30 dungeon. they want 12k Gearscore to do 6k Gearscore content. They want you ridiculously overgeared for any and all content. and it doesn't matter if they are doing speed runs or not. that's just an excuse.
the real reason for demanding that you be so overgeared is simply because it is easier that way. less of a challenge, smaller chance of failure and wasted time.
I've learned to deal with that.
the funny thing about that, is that these same players are on every MMO forum complaining that their game is too "easy" and "faceroll" and "carebear" and "casual". well, when you outgear the content by almost double the suggested gearscore, of course it will be easy and faceroll and carebear and casual.
Comments
I don't recall encouraging it?
I pointed out that players will always want higher GS players with them.
But I also pointed out how GS can be completely misleading.
I'm not going to paint rainbows and butterflies. Players will be players and nothing can change that. I do my own thing which often is very 'if it takes us four hours I'll be happy' but many/most players don't and I'm not going to say otherwise.
Let's not put words in my mouth?
It's not an attack against you personally, more that as a CM your comments will be taken more seriously than your average poster and often considered more in line with PWE/Cryptics agenda.
That GF couldn't get anything done. That frustrated me so much I wanted to throw five dollars at him or bar him from ever wasting other people's time by doing PvE again. I respect players who have a learning curb to overcome and will gladly help them out and I respect players who are trying their best or are simply lack knowledge.
However that was probably the only player who ever wanted to legitimately play the game that I never want to see on my side in PvE ever again. He wasn't a bad player but he didn't plan on doing anything besides PvP and it made him complete dead weight. You can do your role badly and have my respect but you need to do your role at least to some moderate amount.
That's not elitism. Could maybe be perceived as such but it's not.
At some point players have to function or even the casuals will get angry.
Maybe I missed out but one question. Did you tell him he's in wrong spec and needs to respec for the tank role?
Because if you did and he refused you had all rights to replace him with a tank in tank spec.
It is like in WoW if a warrior in fury spec want to tank heroic no one will play with him.
That's why T1 exists. It's exactly what you want. A mindless zerg fest in which any skill layout will do the job. You're free to ask for more T1 dungeons, but don't ask cryptic to force everyone to play T1 stuff please. There are many people having fun in T2 currently. Even in CN. Those instances are fine.
I'm sure there are, my point was that there are even more people that would love to run the instances but aren't being given the opportunity due to ridiculous demands such as 11k GS. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the best players ever to grace an MMo have been shelved because their GS is too low or they lack the experience of a particular instance.
It also seems a bit counter productive from a players PoV to be expected to have a full set of T2 gear just to be able to run an instance that drops the same level of gear. There isn't any insentive other than farming purples to put on the AH. I'm guessing it was intended for there to be more than just the auction house or accumlation of some currency as the driving force to play the game.
I know there are some that enjoy just running instances and killing stuff but I'm referring to the player base as a whole. It all seems very selective:
'You must be this tall to go on this ride..'
This is only a zone chat requirement. I've never seen anyone kicked because the GS was too low in a public queue though. I'm not saying it never happened, i'm just saying it should be rare. People (like myself occasionally) on zone chat are looking for one thing: an increased success rate. This means that we don't always want to carry a dead weight and do the job so that he can loot his chest at the end. Sometimes, i want to play for myself too. That doesn't mean i'm not ok to help. Many people in my guild have quite low playing abilities. That's ok. I do dungeons with them and give them tips, out of the DD event, and i hope they learn something.
By the way, most of the times, the requirements on zone chats are around 10k which means you have to get a full T1 set and get some rank 5 or 6 gems, which increases the chances that you've spent some time in game and master all of the T1 dungeons. Then you're ready for T2. If you want to skip a part of the learning curve that's ok, but not in my zone chat DD event groups, thank you.
Because a Tank class having the innate ability to taunt and generate threat would completely imbalance the game! Wait...
People demand high GS for DD because they are doing speed runs , and a 8,4k gs TR in SP won't
cut it if you want to pull 3 runs in 1 DD .
Get your facts straight before posting nonsense .
And yes ofc people want overgeared others in their groups for doing dailies ( wow hc daily anyone ? lol ) and game events , which in this case happens to be Dungeon Delves .
You can't blame people for desiring a well geared group instead of bunch of " exp'd" 8,4k randoms .
I'm tired of looking at the forums people complaining all the time about GS , when you're going for
maximum runs in one DD event you need well geared ( the best geared you can find ) & experienced
people to achieve this goal .
Don't get so butthurt and start farming gear or just buy the gear from the AH or something noone
cares .
What people care about while doing dungeons during the DD is speed , nothing else .
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ButtHurt
Have a read of number 7, even though the guy that posted it forgot the word 'know' in the first part of the sentence. I guess it goes with the territory of the term :rolleyes:
Peace, out.
I really have to agree with this post. Both GF & GWF threat should be based on a passive class feature not a feat or paragon point spending. You should not have to spec in to tanking at the cost of being capable of doing anything else. If we had free dual spec swapping this would be acceptable but as it stands now being forced to chose between a tank set of abilities which will gimp your performance in pvp sucks!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Campaign: The Battle of Neverwinter - NWS-DOQXFA4ZD
Prologue: A not so simple plan - NW-DCJG75B9D
Some, not all. Running Spellplague three times in one DD is nonsense. There has to be a catch somewhere. An exploit, bug, something, taken advantage of.
Someone asked for a rogue yesterday for SP. Told the person that I'd go, and was asked my gs. Told them 10k+. I know the fight, I don't die on the last boss until someone else is completely dead and it's a wipe, and do great damage. Of course, I didn't get a response, and the person was still looking for a rogue. What I did get for a response was a tell from that person trying to invite a different rogue with a slightly higher gs, that posted long after I posted. They didn't take the invite.
Players need to grow some and stop worrying about a couple points in gs.
No. No they won't.
well you certainly live up to your forum handle.
I said what you said. I just used less words.
I offered no opinion on whether it was a good thing, or a bad thing, I said "that's just how it is."
so I'm not sure how you came to the assumption that I was "butthurt" about anything.
fact is, most Players want you to have the absolute top of the line epic highest GS gear you can possibly have, to do a level 30 dungeon. they want 12k Gearscore to do 6k Gearscore content. They want you ridiculously overgeared for any and all content. and it doesn't matter if they are doing speed runs or not. that's just an excuse.
the real reason for demanding that you be so overgeared is simply because it is easier that way. less of a challenge, smaller chance of failure and wasted time.
I've learned to deal with that.
the funny thing about that, is that these same players are on every MMO forum complaining that their game is too "easy" and "faceroll" and "carebear" and "casual". well, when you outgear the content by almost double the suggested gearscore, of course it will be easy and faceroll and carebear and casual.
but that is another discussion for another time.