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Permanent stealth and pvp-reasonable???
capgarnas
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 500 Bounty Hunter
Taken from the rogue perma stealth
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?324111-Build-Guide-quot-INT-Rogue-quot-Perma-Stealth-Build
Perma-Stealth PvP Montage video #1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XylOlYBCGP0
Originally Posted by kashimaa1
The funny thing is, you dont realy need INT to achieve perma stealth :-)
Originally Posted by kevinf08
Pretty much this.
You don't need to sacrifice stats to achieve perm stealth, you do need to sacrifice 2 encounter slots for SS and bait and switch though.
Or at least that's my experience on my Str rogue with 1100 recovery.
When we talk about "Perma-Stealth", that means your rogue can stay in stealth 100% of the time (as long as theres a target to use Shadow Strike) and not be seen.
The reason why you would need INT is because you wont have enough recovery to have a high enough Recharge Speed to complete the Perma-Stealth rotation, alternating between "Bait and Switch" and "Shadow Strike" while one is on cool down the other should be ready in time to refill stealth before stealth runs out, in doing so you'll need 30% recharge speed.
Without it, kevinf08's rogues perma stealth rotation would have to be...
1. In Stealth
2. Shadow Strike
3. Bait and Switch
4. Shadow Strike
(Bait and Switch wont be ready in time for the next Stealth refill)
"Use Lurker's Assault"
5. Shadow Strike
6. Bait and Switch
7. Shadow Strike
(Bait and Switch wont be ready in time for the next Stealth refill)
However, with the 30% recovery. You would do a different rotation
1. In Stealth
2. Bait and Switch
3. Shadow Strike
4. Bait and Switch
5. Shadow Strike
x. continue rotation endlessly, no need for Lurker's Assault
Without 30% recharge speed and if you'd try this rotation, you'll just stop after the first Shadow Strike (that is why you'd use Shadow Strike first if you don't have enough recharge speed)
*By focusing on INT and Recovery, you wont see a single high amount of damage, the damage comes from accumulated attacks, with Poisons, Nimble Blade Procs, Greater Tene Procs (if you have any), and Bonus damage from continued attacks from CoS, that is what makes the damage.
I think my best KDR was 28 kills and 0 deaths in a single match, the build isn't about one shotting an enemy then running away because TR's are squishy. It's about focusing on those who are squishy, targeting CW's and TR's, killing runners, as well as holding the enemies capture point, keeping it contested while 3-4 enemies try to find you (doing so makes capturing middle point a lot easier for your team), with the build you can 1v1 and 1v2 with no problems that's why the enemy team would have to send 3+ or the whole team to take you out.
*my 2 cents*
Perma-Stealth PvP Montage video #1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XylOlYBCGP0
Discuss.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?324111-Build-Guide-quot-INT-Rogue-quot-Perma-Stealth-Build
Perma-Stealth PvP Montage video #1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XylOlYBCGP0
Originally Posted by kashimaa1
The funny thing is, you dont realy need INT to achieve perma stealth :-)
Originally Posted by kevinf08
Pretty much this.
You don't need to sacrifice stats to achieve perm stealth, you do need to sacrifice 2 encounter slots for SS and bait and switch though.
Or at least that's my experience on my Str rogue with 1100 recovery.
When we talk about "Perma-Stealth", that means your rogue can stay in stealth 100% of the time (as long as theres a target to use Shadow Strike) and not be seen.
The reason why you would need INT is because you wont have enough recovery to have a high enough Recharge Speed to complete the Perma-Stealth rotation, alternating between "Bait and Switch" and "Shadow Strike" while one is on cool down the other should be ready in time to refill stealth before stealth runs out, in doing so you'll need 30% recharge speed.
Without it, kevinf08's rogues perma stealth rotation would have to be...
1. In Stealth
2. Shadow Strike
3. Bait and Switch
4. Shadow Strike
(Bait and Switch wont be ready in time for the next Stealth refill)
"Use Lurker's Assault"
5. Shadow Strike
6. Bait and Switch
7. Shadow Strike
(Bait and Switch wont be ready in time for the next Stealth refill)
However, with the 30% recovery. You would do a different rotation
1. In Stealth
2. Bait and Switch
3. Shadow Strike
4. Bait and Switch
5. Shadow Strike
x. continue rotation endlessly, no need for Lurker's Assault
Without 30% recharge speed and if you'd try this rotation, you'll just stop after the first Shadow Strike (that is why you'd use Shadow Strike first if you don't have enough recharge speed)
*By focusing on INT and Recovery, you wont see a single high amount of damage, the damage comes from accumulated attacks, with Poisons, Nimble Blade Procs, Greater Tene Procs (if you have any), and Bonus damage from continued attacks from CoS, that is what makes the damage.
I think my best KDR was 28 kills and 0 deaths in a single match, the build isn't about one shotting an enemy then running away because TR's are squishy. It's about focusing on those who are squishy, targeting CW's and TR's, killing runners, as well as holding the enemies capture point, keeping it contested while 3-4 enemies try to find you (doing so makes capturing middle point a lot easier for your team), with the build you can 1v1 and 1v2 with no problems that's why the enemy team would have to send 3+ or the whole team to take you out.
*my 2 cents*
Perma-Stealth PvP Montage video #1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XylOlYBCGP0
Discuss.
Post edited by capgarnas on
0
Comments
2. If you're literally going to copy-and-paste someone's quote from another thread, why not discuss the quote in the original thread itself?
3. Your link to the thread is broken. http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/sho...alth-in-combat leads nowhere, you need to fix that.
Thanks for pointing out the link was broken
Rogues are very squishy. I play a rogue which is not focusing on perma stealth or throwing daggers. I have severe problems to stay alive in PvP or deal damage when in melee. Mobility while using melee anytimers is too low.
This game is instanced, surely it's possible to add some kind of check, "if player is in PvP instance then nerf stealth time by X amount, if player is in PvE instance then leave the darn thing as it is".
If they can do things like crippling the cleric's ability to self heal, then surely it can't be that hard to code something like this.
Coming to a rogue near you! (the one you still can't see yet) :cool:
Yeah like above im sure they want you solo PVE in easy mode stealth.
Okay, fine. Then damage from stealth is increased by double.
You know, since all of our feats are tied into doing damage from within stealth and having such a long cooldown on our core ability would cripple us.
Oh, and if you want to make At-Wills break stealth, then they have to do as much damage as an encounter ability with each swing. You know, since you essentially want Cloud of Steel and Sky Flourish to behave like encounter abilities (i.e. Lashing Blade) and break stealth, then they should have the same amount of damage possible. Only fair.
Then how about changing stealth to reveal(not dropping stealth, your opponent would be simply able to see you) rogue to the target upon attacking. Technically you would remain in stealth thus not losing dmg while giving the victim change to counter attack.
That's a solid idea.
Though, I imagine there would have to be some sort of damage mitigation when attacking a stealthed opponent, just because being able to be seen while in stealth and attacked doesn't make much sense from a "lore/fluff/roleplaying/realistic/etc" perspective.
and i want that my first attack that brings me out of stealth does 2x or 3x damage and is called sneak-attack...
Not true you could build an alt and be well geared as x3lade in his video for the cost of my Ancient main hand weapon.
This is already in the game.
and put block on that 45s CD too, has to be fair, dont forget that
and ofc whatever the abilty from GWF is called...and ofc the 4th encounter from CWs
How are you compairing stealth to block. lol. That like comparing 1mil dollars to 2 dollars. Failed attempt -5. If anything block needs a buff with more def and I think in the future tanks should get a 5-10% Health pool increase to be over 40k.
Only if you put dodge on the same cd.
No, that's a bad idea. If you use Lashing Blade once you wouldn't be able to use stealth again for the entire duration of the fight. That's not fair at all.
Its a great idea. Would stop the guy above you with him lameness. In other games when rogues come out of stealth aren't they out of stealth and fight. I mean its only fair. Realistically whoever came up with stealth in a game should be shot to begin with.
Mmmmm Hmmmm, and I am sure they are soloing all other content too huh? You got any proof of this claim? Or is this just general word of mouth and over exaggeration or is it some wild speculation? Whats the next claim that TR's can go to level 1 to 60 in a few hours?
Oh yes... lets just kill the classes primary ability that has just about all their abilities are based on too. SMH.
Do me a favor. Go look up rogue feats and see how many of them require you to be in stealth in order to use. This game is not like those games. This game makes it so your character has to be in stealth in order to take advantage of many of the feats. Stealth makes your at-wills stronger, your AP regenerate faster, fuels your combat advantage, etc. If you make it so that stealth is only good for one attack then they would have to drastically rework the feat tree. There is nothing reasonable or fair about your suggestion.
And?
You're not thinking rationally. Regardless of how you feel, that's the way the class was designed for this game, and they can't change it without drastically re-working the feat tree. This is an amount of work that is simply unreasonable to expect at this time. You want rogues to only have one ability to use from within stealth before it drops? Fine, but all those feats around gaining combat advantage, attacking from within stealth, etc. would have to replaced with ones that simply increase damage outside of stealth. The rogue is supposed to be the single target DPS class, used to burn down the HP of high priority targets in PvE dungeons; and if you take away stealth, he still needs to do the same amount of overall damage on single targets. That means rogues would become even easier to play and even more "game-breaking" in PvP/PvE. They'd have incredible damage without having to use stealth, and wouldn't need to worry whether they had combat advantage or not.
It's just unfeasible.
this is the lesson people should take away from this
This is not an exaggeration. With the use of the permastealth build rogues are capable of bypassing and ignoring all npc aggro. The only thing they need to worry about (besides their stealth rotation) is the aoe damage and damage directed towards their bait decoy if they're near it. TR's with this build have solo'd the dracolith in CN (a bit time consuming).. They're also being used to bypass trash mobs to move entire parties up to desired check points via exit entrance/return to instance.
Some sort of nerf is inevitable, but I still started leveling one because with how long it has taken them to do anything about their broken new content, who knows how long til they figure something out with this build. Don't worry I gave it a politically correct name Cheese Ball... :rolleyes: