I have both fully geared GWf and GF's and I know the GF perma block will be nerfed at some point.
Easy fix for this. The perma shield stance needs to be removed entirely and replaced by something similar to the GWF unstoppable mechanic, it needs to be charged up before use, and once depleted from hits or a time limit then need to be charged back up, currently it is way OP, never lost a pvp match unless all 5 folks were on me and then it was a 50/50 chance they could kill me.
Currently the shield meter auto fills or is filled at insanely fast levels while taking damage and doing damage, it should not do both and should again have the exact mechanic the GWF skill unstoppable, this would prevent perma block.
For PVE the regular block should stop an addressed amount of damage spikes but not stop damage entirely like it does now.
I do not see the damage as a problem once the perma block is taken down, at that point, the GF can be interrupted and handled appropriately. Even with unstoppable on my GWF a GF only need wait until that GWF skill dissipates and then get back to thrashing folks.
Currently I do not use my GF in PVP as it is no fun to simply faceroll people constantly. Once on a point I am pretty much left alone.
This guy is obviously a baddie who thinks he's good with his GF because he can PERMA BLOCK! I have no problem with your suggestion, just give us as much dodge as a CW.
I have both fully geared GWf and GF's and I know the GF perma block will be nerfed at some point.
Oh well, you can "perma block"? WOW great. Just awesome. And i'd just think "who the f*** was the guy who perma blocked at the starting campfire all the time while he was crying that its imba?!" :P
Sry but did you ever play PvP lvl60 with GS 12k+ ?! Your block is down in just a second 1-2 encounter and your block is gone. And btw: 50% of your power is gone too, because your guard meter is empty. Well, yes. Absolutely imba X_X
Easy fix for this. The perma shield stance needs to be removed entirely and replaced by something similar to the GWF unstoppable mechanic, it needs to be charged up before use, and once depleted from hits or a time limit then need to be charged back up, currently it is way OP, never lost a pvp match unless all 5 folks were on me and then it was a 50/50 chance they could kill me.
Thats not true. A good GF, well equipped and a skilled player is able to keep 2-3 enemies busy, but killing them? never! (if they got an equal equipment and skill).
it should not do both and should again have the exact mechanic the GWF skill unstoppable, this would prevent perma block.
GWF unstoppable... healing, increased movement speed, faster attack speed, immune to all CC effects.
GF block... standing around and blocking some attacks from the front. guard meter is empty after a few hits.
Well yes, block>unstoppable. Absolutely. wtf?!?!?!?!?
All in all: you dont know anything about GF and you're talking bullsh*t. Funny, but still bullsh*t.
Btw: last PvP match vs a CW: he dodged most of my attacks, used his CC skills to keep me away from him all the time. if i tried to block his attacks he did just run away to keep the distance between us as large as possible. Block=no solution because im too slow. No block=dead becase of CC effects. That player was really good. It was insane. I had no chance 1on1 vs him, but our 1on1s took to much time but it was funny. well sometimes he failed dodging my skills and died, but most duels he'd win.
If you want people to stay for the match end even when you're sitting on a 600-10 score and you've decided to be ***-hats and spawn-camp, you need to give them a reason. Punishing them is not the answer. That's just pouring salt-acid into an already bleeding wound.
Well the cleric doesnt have such an at-will ... but did you ever try to kill a cleric with GF?
They are running around, dodging, healing themselve, casting astralshield ... and... after a few seconds their teammates are there and will kill just everything with cleric-backup.
few matches ago i got 2 clerics in my team... they healed themselve and me... we were able to defend a pylon vs 4 enemies without any problem (okay, well... some onehits were a problem...)
Btw: TR is able to get a 100% chance to do something around 25k damage even to a GF with 40+% damage reduction. because of this, this stupid thread (and most of the silly "arguments" (i would call it "fairy tale")) is just a waste of time.
"and paper says: nerf scissors! they are winning all the time!"
If you want people to stay for the match end even when you're sitting on a 600-10 score and you've decided to be ***-hats and spawn-camp, you need to give them a reason. Punishing them is not the answer. That's just pouring salt-acid into an already bleeding wound.
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rondoo1876Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 8Arc User
edited June 2013
Well I guess im not the only one seeing whats going on lol.... of course the GF's are going to scream foul guys its going to happen but fact is a "tank" should not be able to "tank" and "massive burst" "stun lock" all at the same time... if you tank then they tank if they build for dps then they lose the tanking part in the process to do burst im fine with that but to have a tank that can outburst and out dps the "DPS" specific classes is plain wrong
Well I guess im not the only one seeing whats going on lol.... of course the GF's are going to scream foul guys its going to happen but fact is a "tank" should not be able to "tank" and "massive burst" "stun lock" all at the same time... if you tank then they tank if they build for dps then they lose the tanking part in the process to do burst im fine with that but to have a tank that can outburst and out dps the "DPS" specific classes is plain wrong
You really see what's going on? You also see GF tanking? What's that you say? You can't do any dungeons without a GF tank? My bad, I forgot you already beat this game and the GF in your group was able to tank all the trash mobs that died in 30 seconds or less.Lets nerf GF dps even more so they become even more useless!
They all can if the GF doesn't have someone to bang their shield against to recharge it.
If a GF is standing on a node, any at will ranged attack can break their shield down if they fail to take action against you.
If you aren't on the node, guess what, they have to leave the node to attack you.
If they leave the node, you can kite them until your team takes the node.
If they don't leave the node, then eventually your at will skill will break their shield and they will take damage.
Without someone to hit or shield bash a GF can't do anything but take damage, charge or retreat plan and simple.
They actually have the most minimal of tools at their disposal when you consider other classes toolkits.
A Cleric can heal without interacting with other players, a rogue can steath and run away without the interaction of other players, etc.
A GF can't self heal without hitting other players in melee. A GF also has no retreat opinions other than running more slowly than every other class when you consider that dodging/sliding/etc moves you along much faster than running.
--Edited forgot to Quote--
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yushirokaneMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
Those forum whiners about gf havent seen what a sentinel gwf does now, cry incoming in 2 weeks.
And why? There is no balance at all. If they can not balance 5 class, why add new?
This is not about GF, but all class need much better balance. I realy do not understand: why duel on PvP battlefield is only about one donge, first stun, this is realy stupid and win who have better ping.
You do know how knight's challenge works right? the GF will deal 100% more dmg to you and you also deal 100% to him. How is that broken and op? Like I said before anyone who isn't HAMSTER will kill the GF in 2-3 hits after he uses knights challenge. Not only that, if they slot knight's challenge into a encounter slot they will lose one of their CC (which is a huge part of their combo) which leaves them with charge and ONE CC spell. You know how easy it is to dodge a GF ability? What are they going to do after you dodge their charge and knock down? Poke you with their toothpick for no dmg if they can even get to melee range.
You can nerf knight's challenge all you want. It's a troll skill that only works on baddies.
You are quite correct with this post. I find if another GF comes and knight's challenge me they have usually sealed their own fate with me killing them in a few hits. Personally I don't like knights challenge I would rather have one more CC ability the loss of usually frontal surge would be a pain. Also I strongly agree with this point brought up at the end, knight's challenge is not required to dominate in the PVP(I do fine without it), even though people will always be reluctant to admit this, player skill does make a huge difference when it comes to 1 vs 1's in the 5 vs 5's it can be sometimes n/a, to be honest you don't even need teneberous either, they are just a bonus.
Also dependent on who you are up against, in some games if you have a bad GF you most likely wont even notice he's there, it only when you get one who messes stuff up and makes you're team hurt you notice their presence in essence a good GF is valued but a bad one isn't even noticed, then you get threads like this about the potentially good GF's who arise.
You also have to consider that lack of escape options as brought up by c2n2. GF's have no ability to doge or escape combat, if someone engages you then you have a fight and you have to follow through and try to win, if you manage to win a fight that you didn't engage and were forced into then personally I think its down to the other players bad decision making unless you will claim anyone initiating a fight should always win.
Sons of Schlarb
Thaddeus Talbot - GF - Dragon
Aysta Tarley - TR - Dragon
A tank class with over 40%+ damage mitigation and 30k+ HP in offensive gear that can block all incoming damage AND able to keep players knocked back and knocked down with an At-Will that allows them to spam charge people, should NOT be able to do this:
That guy isn't even fully geared out with Rank 8 Enchants, Greater / Perfect Soulforged, and/or Greater Tenebrous. He was doing upwards of 18-19k crits. I only took the screenshots of his first hour of owning in PvP...
GFs have 2 OP and broken armor sets (Stalwart Bulwark and Timeless Hero). They have OP Encounters such as Knight's Challenge. They have an OP At-Will such as Threatening Rush, where they can constantly charge you. When combined with the Conqueror tree and good gear, they are a tank class that can do Rogue damage. Oh, and in PvE, they can do more damage than a fully geared out Rogue and CW if played, geared, and spec'd right.
Guy slots knight challenge... Any of the ppl he's hitting cept for maybe a dc can wallop him w the same numbers while its up if they are paying attention to the fact they just turned red and have a big laser attached to them and the GF.
The build he's using has 1 stun and 2 if his daily is up. And he's in full t2.
GWF is probably the biggest threat n people don't even know it yet. And I don't think they are OP either. Kite them during tab, and kill them as usual. Bait/dodge their slow, easily avoidable, double stun encounters = profit.
Guy slots knight challenge... Any of the ppl he's hitting cept for maybe a dc can wallop him w the same numbers while its up if they are paying attention to the fact they just turned red and have a big laser attached to them and the GF.
The build he's using has 1 stun and 2 if his daily is up. And he's in full t2.
GWF is probably the biggest threat n people don't even know it yet. And I don't think they are OP either. Kite them during tab, and kill them as usual. Bait/dodge their slow, easily avoidable, double stun encounters = profit.
Learn your classes and stop whining.
Bingo. If you have knight challenge just drop Ice Knife and 1 shot him. /dead GF
I am a GF and its dangerous to run Knights most are bad at it or are poorly geared so they use it to get some kills till they get gear. They die a lot have like 3 kills and don't turn out to much. There are a few that are good at it though and I only use it when the other team is tanky with GWF and clerics. Because you have to hit that hard to kill them. Other wise I never use it cause its just not a good skill. 21sec CD too. When you can slot frontline surge instead on a 15sec cd Aoe that knocks back and leave them prone. So the complaint about there damage is false since its just a skill to use to counter heavy healing and plate. Its not meant to be used in any other situation cause its just not practical.
PS buff GF's health pool its too low we need to be more tanky
PS the guy in that video does have a Ancient sword as well and a greater plague looks like a Tene from the one screen shot as well. So what do you expect with that gear. It to tickle. Tanks should have massive huge chunks of burst cause there att speed is slow not only that it can be dodged go figure. It really comes down to awareness. Don't give a GF with knights challenge combat advantage and you wont get smacked /thread
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axer128Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
lol.
If you use knights challenge to try to get a big hit against aNY decent player, you will die first or they will get away. It's ONLY useful for stomping complete noobs.
Screenshots of 100% maxxed geared player stomping noobs in all greens is not a sign of a OP class. It's a sign of the fact the games gear scales pretty extremely.
Anyone who feels his guardian is op can come talk to me ingame and duel our rogues or gwfs. You will not stand a chance. The best of the best guardians in the game cannot kill a decent gwf, and can be melted versus good rogues in 2-4 seconds - while they have to play perfectly for 7-12 seconds to win.
Endgame rogue vs guardian is really amazingly balanced imo. I dueled quicktoes last night on my guardian, (best geared rogue on the server imo). He won most, but it was around 4-6, we each had a fair chance to win.
Heavy stealth rogues I admit I can beat nearly every time, but thats a limitation of the build, not the class. Brawler rogues like quicktoe are insanely hard to beat.
And well tanky gwf? no chance.
Want to talk about an op class in pvp, its defensive gwfs atm, not guardians.
A defensive gwf can tank a full team of 5 players indefinitely and never die (5 average pug players in domination, not 5 good ones.. Thats pretty op imo)
Or 2-3 top geared ones. They are the real current op pvp class due to all the crazy buffs they got lately.
axer128 - Agreed - Defensive GWF is hard to 1v1 or even 2v1. Unless RNG is on your side and you get massive CRTs while they are on their back they can simply sprint away and heal up.
Also Lurker Burst Dagger rogues can 100-0 any class. Their damage is thru the roof and melts everyone and everything.
Comments
I always get teary eyed to see these pillars of the community letting us know how noble they are.
This guy is obviously a baddie who thinks he's good with his GF because he can PERMA BLOCK! I have no problem with your suggestion, just give us as much dodge as a CW.
Sry but did you ever play PvP lvl60 with GS 12k+ ?! Your block is down in just a second 1-2 encounter and your block is gone. And btw: 50% of your power is gone too, because your guard meter is empty. Well, yes. Absolutely imba X_X
Thats not true. A good GF, well equipped and a skilled player is able to keep 2-3 enemies busy, but killing them? never! (if they got an equal equipment and skill).
Your guard meter is filling up, while you are blocking attacks? tell me the name of the game you're playing plz.
GWF unstoppable... healing, increased movement speed, faster attack speed, immune to all CC effects.
GF block... standing around and blocking some attacks from the front. guard meter is empty after a few hits.
Well yes, block>unstoppable. Absolutely. wtf?!?!?!?!?
All in all: you dont know anything about GF and you're talking bullsh*t. Funny, but still bullsh*t.
Btw: last PvP match vs a CW: he dodged most of my attacks, used his CC skills to keep me away from him all the time. if i tried to block his attacks he did just run away to keep the distance between us as large as possible. Block=no solution because im too slow. No block=dead becase of CC effects. That player was really good. It was insane. I had no chance 1on1 vs him, but our 1on1s took to much time
And here is the reason:
An unstoppable dodging GF would be near invincible...
Which DC at-will can render a GF shield useless?
They are running around, dodging, healing themselve, casting astralshield ... and... after a few seconds their teammates are there and will kill just everything with cleric-backup.
few matches ago i got 2 clerics in my team... they healed themselve and me... we were able to defend a pylon vs 4 enemies without any problem
Btw: TR is able to get a 100% chance to do something around 25k damage even to a GF with 40+% damage reduction. because of this, this stupid thread (and most of the silly "arguments" (i would call it "fairy tale")) is just a waste of time.
"and paper says: nerf scissors! they are winning all the time!"
And here is the reason:
You really see what's going on? You also see GF tanking? What's that you say? You can't do any dungeons without a GF tank? My bad, I forgot you already beat this game and the GF in your group was able to tank all the trash mobs that died in 30 seconds or less.Lets nerf GF dps even more so they become even more useless!
They all can if the GF doesn't have someone to bang their shield against to recharge it.
If a GF is standing on a node, any at will ranged attack can break their shield down if they fail to take action against you.
If you aren't on the node, guess what, they have to leave the node to attack you.
If they leave the node, you can kite them until your team takes the node.
If they don't leave the node, then eventually your at will skill will break their shield and they will take damage.
Without someone to hit or shield bash a GF can't do anything but take damage, charge or retreat plan and simple.
They actually have the most minimal of tools at their disposal when you consider other classes toolkits.
A Cleric can heal without interacting with other players, a rogue can steath and run away without the interaction of other players, etc.
A GF can't self heal without hitting other players in melee. A GF also has no retreat opinions other than running more slowly than every other class when you consider that dodging/sliding/etc moves you along much faster than running.
--Edited forgot to Quote--
This is not about GF, but all class need much better balance. I realy do not understand: why duel on PvP battlefield is only about one donge, first stun, this is realy stupid and win who have better ping.
You are quite correct with this post. I find if another GF comes and knight's challenge me they have usually sealed their own fate with me killing them in a few hits. Personally I don't like knights challenge I would rather have one more CC ability the loss of usually frontal surge would be a pain. Also I strongly agree with this point brought up at the end, knight's challenge is not required to dominate in the PVP(I do fine without it), even though people will always be reluctant to admit this, player skill does make a huge difference when it comes to 1 vs 1's in the 5 vs 5's it can be sometimes n/a, to be honest you don't even need teneberous either, they are just a bonus.
Also dependent on who you are up against, in some games if you have a bad GF you most likely wont even notice he's there, it only when you get one who messes stuff up and makes you're team hurt you notice their presence in essence a good GF is valued but a bad one isn't even noticed, then you get threads like this about the potentially good GF's who arise.
You also have to consider that lack of escape options as brought up by c2n2. GF's have no ability to doge or escape combat, if someone engages you then you have a fight and you have to follow through and try to win, if you manage to win a fight that you didn't engage and were forced into then personally I think its down to the other players bad decision making unless you will claim anyone initiating a fight should always win.
Thaddeus Talbot - GF - Dragon
Aysta Tarley - TR - Dragon
Guy slots knight challenge... Any of the ppl he's hitting cept for maybe a dc can wallop him w the same numbers while its up if they are paying attention to the fact they just turned red and have a big laser attached to them and the GF.
The build he's using has 1 stun and 2 if his daily is up. And he's in full t2.
GWF is probably the biggest threat n people don't even know it yet. And I don't think they are OP either. Kite them during tab, and kill them as usual. Bait/dodge their slow, easily avoidable, double stun encounters = profit.
Learn your classes and stop whining.
Bingo. If you have knight challenge just drop Ice Knife and 1 shot him. /dead GF
I am a GF and its dangerous to run Knights most are bad at it or are poorly geared so they use it to get some kills till they get gear. They die a lot have like 3 kills and don't turn out to much. There are a few that are good at it though and I only use it when the other team is tanky with GWF and clerics. Because you have to hit that hard to kill them. Other wise I never use it cause its just not a good skill. 21sec CD too. When you can slot frontline surge instead on a 15sec cd Aoe that knocks back and leave them prone. So the complaint about there damage is false since its just a skill to use to counter heavy healing and plate. Its not meant to be used in any other situation cause its just not practical.
PS buff GF's health pool its too low we need to be more tanky
If you use knights challenge to try to get a big hit against aNY decent player, you will die first or they will get away. It's ONLY useful for stomping complete noobs.
Screenshots of 100% maxxed geared player stomping noobs in all greens is not a sign of a OP class. It's a sign of the fact the games gear scales pretty extremely.
Anyone who feels his guardian is op can come talk to me ingame and duel our rogues or gwfs. You will not stand a chance. The best of the best guardians in the game cannot kill a decent gwf, and can be melted versus good rogues in 2-4 seconds - while they have to play perfectly for 7-12 seconds to win.
Endgame rogue vs guardian is really amazingly balanced imo. I dueled quicktoes last night on my guardian, (best geared rogue on the server imo). He won most, but it was around 4-6, we each had a fair chance to win.
Heavy stealth rogues I admit I can beat nearly every time, but thats a limitation of the build, not the class. Brawler rogues like quicktoe are insanely hard to beat.
And well tanky gwf? no chance.
Want to talk about an op class in pvp, its defensive gwfs atm, not guardians.
A defensive gwf can tank a full team of 5 players indefinitely and never die (5 average pug players in domination, not 5 good ones.. Thats pretty op imo)
Or 2-3 top geared ones. They are the real current op pvp class due to all the crazy buffs they got lately.
-Epic Dread Vault Crushed.
Characters (Dragon): Axer (60 Guardian, Leader of Crush It!), Controller (60 Wizard), Warlocker (60 Warlock)
Also Lurker Burst Dagger rogues can 100-0 any class. Their damage is thru the roof and melts everyone and everything.