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please get rid of cliff drop killing
warflux
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
Yeah it's annoying and basically turns a challenging dungeon into 2 CWs just throwing everything off cliffs. This is not even remotely dnd or resembling any sport at all. Rock, paper, scissors is more challenging than 'Nevercombat - AlwaysCliffkill'
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They need to make adds easier to kill so GWF can do it as well as CW's who can through things off cliffs. But still allow CW's to through things off cliffs cuz it can still be a better chocie for the solo really tough add like Hulks in SP.
and then there's the other 90% of the game.
So, there are three ways to modify this:
1) Add the chance to not to fall off the cliff.
2) Add a stat that reduces the knockback distance (some mobs will not move enough to fall down and will need another push).
3) Add a chance to resist the knockback entirely (the worst option imo).
This will add difficulty to push off a cliff, but the feature will still exist, which in my opinion is good because a lot of people likes it.
"The harder the game, the better."
And you really don't see that as a problem? The top tier dungeon is impossible without two CWs just sitting there chunking all the adds off the cliff. On top of that it makes CN like shooting fish in a barrel, there is absolutely no challenge in it.
I'm beyond blown away that people think this is a good thing. If they got rid of it maybe it would force them to put some good design into the dungeons.
Pretty much this...
My mind just can't grasp how there's people that are against this. It's about friggin' time there was a game that had this mechanic and it not be considered an exploit or causes the mobs to glitch.
As games increase in sophistication I expect more creative/realistic ways to overcome challenges. And the next idiot 'purist' that chimes in with, "it's not how the tabletop" is played should be told to stfu. It's a computer game. Translating it 100% from the tt is stupid. I kept hearing this HAMSTER in the Warhammer series of games too.
That's an issue with a specific encounter and not anything inherently wrong with the mechanic itself. Learn to recognize the real problem and address it accordingly.
It is very much DnD, if you were playing pnp and not attempting to use the environment to your advantage then you were just not thinking outside the box.
They need to give some benefit to killing the trash, people will stop tossing it off ledges if it was actually worth killing but it currently is not. They need to have a rare chance to drop some rank 7 enchants or something to make it worth spending the time killing the packs of trash.
You have that backwards for endgame.
what do you mean there isn't a save roll... as a cleric I use sunburst to toss mobs off cliffs as often as possible and I assure you that tossing them back they have a good chance of landing somewhere and coming right back and bosses have such good save rolls they are immune to being so affected... then again I assume you must think the last stand of the 300 where they marched entire army divisions off of the cliff far fetched from reality
Have you been doing CN runs? You've seen how this is done and are ok with it reducing the entire combat strategy to two CWs cliffdropping every single add? That's ok with you?
That's different, that's called jumping after than falling on safe ground. What I am talking about is that in d&d 4e, they have a chance not to fall at all from the edge.
"The harder the game, the better."
Think you got that backwards.
So you do see it as a problem, then. You just want to claim intellectual superiority before you admit that. Whatever, ok. You are the god of brains.
I see no problem with wizards doing that, one time, in the 40 dungeon, 2 wizards were dropping a lot of mobs down, those normal monsters are not hard, they are just annoying, big health, more time spent spamming skill till we get to the boss... because when you get to the boss, it is almost certain that this trick won't work with him
but hey, if you don't like this feature, fine, 99,99% of mmos nowadays doesn't have this, so you have lots of choices, in fact, almost all of your choices nowadays
So your real beef is the specific encounter, but then you go on to make a post about an effective tool at dealing with enemies that has legitimate use? It makes more sense to ask for a change in encounter mechanics as opposed to asking to remove an awesome mechanic. Think beyond the encounter you have in mind. For soloing or other fights it comes in handy. It's also an evolutionary step forward to use terrain to your advantage. This isn't 1998 or 2004. Games can have more complexity with terrain and creative usage of spell mechanics. I repeat, learn to recognize the real problem and address it accordingly.
So the probelm relaly is in the adds or the other classes abilities to handle adds. If GWF got to randomly decapitate Trash mobs in dungeons popele might use that trick to cliff dropping . Parties need a Fast way to handle adds. it is sad we only have one option.
So what is the real problem then? Have no idea what you are talking about, honestly. The dungeons are poorly designed and have tons of trash mobs. The way people get around it by cliff dropping only makes it worse imo. Either get rid of it or completely redesign it? I don't know any better solution but if you do then feel free to say.
Yeah, well I guess I didn't see it as an issue until I started doing CN runs. As it stands right now this is the ONLY way to beat it that I've seen. You HAVE to have two CWs and they have to be doing this strat the whole time on the boss.
But yea, before that I didn't really see it as a major issue. I guess I am just let down, I want an epic fight and get that? I mean it's really just like two guys sitting there hitting the "win" button over and over. I'm not exaggerating, it dumbs down the game to a point I've never seen.
It gets even sillier when these people start calling themselves pro and calling people out saying they need to learn how to play. Makes me want to shoot myself in the head. Yeah, maybe I should try another mmo.
You answered your own question. It's been brought up that fight mechanics consist pretty much of a boss with too much HP without any serious mechanics to them so to offset their ease the devs simply get dozens of mobs to spawn in an attempt to overwhelm the group. That's fine for a few encounters but it's every encounter. So yes, they should probably redesign their boss fights.
Strangely enough, the only dungeons that I have played, that actually 'feel' like dungeons should feel, are Cloak Tower and Cragmire Crypts, the rest, just remind me of meatgrinders.
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So finally, after getting past your huge ego and focus on me, we get to the heart of the conversation (you could have just skipped all the peen measuring).
Of course I realize the issue. Your solution I think is less realistic although it is obviously the best solution. But hell, if they could do that as a fix then great. I just don't see that happening anytime soon, hence why I asked to just get rid of the mechanic.
I literally said it my first post in this thread:
"That's an issue with a specific encounter and not anything inherently wrong with the mechanic itself."
I can deal with using your brain to figure out a Strategy to help kill off large packs of monsters, but for the love of Christ please do something with boss fights. The (summon aoe followed up with adds, adds, adds, adds, aoe, and more adds) is so darn week.
Life is a dream for the wise, a game for the fool, a comedy for the rich, a tragedy for the poor.
~Sholom Aleichem
Adapt? I have no problem completing CN with two CWs. Not sure what you mean by adapt except to give myself a lobotomy so I will think it is actually fun. Are you just regurgitating HAMSTER without even attempting to understand what this thread is about? I mean, really, saying best to adapt makes no sense at all.
If there was an award for being patronizing I think you would win it.
Also I've been a in a few groups that have used single CWs for all the fights you listed. A GF or GWF often fills those roles. Some balance still needs to be done but at least those classes now have a place. I've even done Spell Plague final boss with no CW using a GWF and GF to deal with the adds as the TR and GF dealt to the boss.