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Guardian Fighters Too Strong in PvP
jellicho
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 104
Think for a moment all the advantages they have in PvP:
Naturally tanky and can block most attacks with ease.
Can stack HP and Tenebrous Enchants causing their DPS to soar.
Can chain stun any opponent with multiple knockdowns and stuns.
Most of you say Rogues are overpowered, but rogues are incredibly squishy, susceptible to all CC and fewer CC options than any other class.
Wizards overpowered in PvP? Again tanky and with Tenebrous most GFs can out DPS any other class.
GFs are actually the best PvP class as they can DPS and have incredible survivability.
Naturally tanky and can block most attacks with ease.
Can stack HP and Tenebrous Enchants causing their DPS to soar.
Can chain stun any opponent with multiple knockdowns and stuns.
Most of you say Rogues are overpowered, but rogues are incredibly squishy, susceptible to all CC and fewer CC options than any other class.
Wizards overpowered in PvP? Again tanky and with Tenebrous most GFs can out DPS any other class.
GFs are actually the best PvP class as they can DPS and have incredible survivability.
Post edited by jellicho on
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Each other class is able to dodge most attacks easily, the tank can be kited by CWs easily. Its all about breaking the guard and then the tank is dead.
Each class is able to do that. A tank got a slow attack. At a maximum of 15% necrotic damage by tenebrous enchantment and at a maximum of 30k Hitpoints this results in 4500 necrotic Bonus damage. Lets look what a TR is getting: 7 Tenebrous enchants instead of 5 = 21%, something around 20k Hitpoints, very fast attack speed. 4200 Bonus damage on each of the very fast attacks. Well a CW got many ranged attacks per second and is able to reach the same bonus as TR. So whats the problem with tanks? Hm? If you compare the 5 classes fully equipped with greater tenebrous and +maximum Hitpoints enchantments, the tank is still the worst damagedealer in PvP.
Well, the GF got 2(!!!) knockdown skills which are usefull in PvP and a daily. The tanks damage is very low. Even the encounters are not that powerful. I got 12k gs, 5200power, 2000 Armor penetration(ignoring 20% armor), 1500 crit(=20% crit chance at all). My encounter damage:
lunging strike:
normal: 3000-4000 damage
crit: 5500-7500
Bull charge
normal 4000-5000 damage
crit: 7500-9000 damage
Frontline surge:
normal 3000-4000 damage
crit: 5500-7500 damage
Daily (indo strength)
normal: 3000 damage per hit, 2 hits -> 6000 damage at all
crit: 5500 damage per hit. 11000 damage if both hits were crit. strikes.
Well the crit chance of 20% is the main problem. Most other classes got a much higher burst damage. The tank is very strong in 1on1 but if the enemy (especially CWs) are dodging correctly, the tank has NO CHANCE. It is all about dodging attacks and the tank CANT DOGDE anything. The tank is able to block some attacks in FRONT of him, but he is walking slowly while blocking.
OMG!
Dazing strike? Smokebomb? Just run to a pylon in PvP (stealthed) see most enemies standing close together. Smokebomb in middle, dazing strike and lashing blade = KILL for most classes. dazing strike and lashing blade are able to deal more than 30k damage(both skills on one enemy) ... even on tanks. And because of the smokebomb, they are dazed.
Another option: Shadow strike! Dazing target, refilling stealth bar, not removing stealth...
well TR got no CC skills... oh wait... :X
Dodge attacks, use CC skills and the tank has no chance. But if you wanna compare a Tank with poerfect gear, full Tenebrous and maximum damage with a CW with HAMSTER gear, no Tenebrous, ... you are right. A perfectly equipped tank will kill a CW with 4000gs easily. Well each class is able to kill people with bad equipment.
Funny, im GF and im dying most of the time to CWs and TR while hiding behind my shield.
Well all classes got the ability to dodge incoming attacks, but not the tank. If you are not able to use dodge correctly, its your fault. Dont blame the GF for your stupidness.
And all in all: Tenebrous Enchantments are stupid and to strong. They should remove this stupid enchantment which is able to make everything to DD!
And here is the reason:
See the problem right now is not with any of the classes / builds in particular ( well maybe the perma stealth rogues but that's another story ) , the problem right now is that the tenebrous enchants can be stacked and procced at the same time which is indeed gamebreaking . I wonder when will PWE / Cryptic will make tenebs weapon enchantment and thus put the end of this endless discussion , who knows . Untill then let's say that every class with a specific build can be OP compared to some other class stacking tenebs and end this .
And I don't know about most GFs but my shield block gets shredded pretty easily by TRs and CWs at which point I'm pretty defenseless. And that TR smokebomb is just ridiculous in PvP.
However something that is important to note when fighting a GF is that guard only works (at at least completely) from the front. If you can split their focus so their back exposed to at least one team member then they should go down a lot easier.
Don't try to play a wizard's game , make the wizard play your game instead as a GF . If they catch you on the defensive , you're pretty much dead - offense = best strat vs wizards but since it's a team game you'll rarely 1v1 a wizard without getting stomped as you overextend into his /her so .. whatever lol ./
exactly, "was"
Domination also isn't meant to be about 1 vs 1's a decent wizard who can control me or a few people working together can kill me with relative ease the GF really isn't a magical super class that everyone wants to believe it is, the shield doesn't last two seconds either I barely use it unless its to block a shocking execution or an ice knife.
Thaddeus Talbot - GF - Dragon
Aysta Tarley - TR - Dragon
I play cleric, every other class through the cleric's eyes is OP by a long ways.
I think CC in general in PvP is a mess. it's what's causing half the issues people moan about. It should not stack in the way that it does. You should not be CC'd so long that someone can take you down (without their daily) before you can move.
Right now it is extremely "Get CC'ed and piled" rinse and repeat.
Kind of reminds me of old westerns where the person who draws first wins and the team that sustains the most is the team with the most CC. Some CC reduction could certainly improve the situation a bit all around.
As for getting around the block, it actually blocks in quite a wide arc, 1vs1 its nigh impossible to get around the block of a decently played GF unless you are a rogue and stealth or use the teleport skill (forget its name atm).
But it matters little at level cap anyway since the pvp at that point is wanting in so many ways.
However, that doesn't mean GF is OP. It means that people have to think about how to fight the GF. 1v1, it's going to be a tough fight. If you run in without a plan, they'll probably win, or at least hold you off. If you ambush them, you can cc and seriously injure and maybe kill them before they can even use their guard. 2v1, you can kill a GF very quickly by getting behind their guard.
So, like the rest of domination, is the fight worth it? Do you have an ambush/terrain advantage? Do you have an ally nearby that can help you melt the GF?
Facing each class requires different tactics. GF is particularly strong against people who don't use tactics.
With that said, DPS GF have too much CC. CC should probably be for tactics/tank GFs who don't do enough damage on their own to efficiently kill the target they're controlling.
it is all about builds, people are starting to use my build an roll u guys.... but the rogues in my guild can roll me they just not going to post a guide... an neither am i after i transition to a new build..
From #1 Guild Pve/Pvp [ Lemonade Stand ]
It isn't your build dude, not so sure why it is so hard to understand this. It is your enchants. I've had your build and setup way before you posted your guide but I lack the enchants. GF's are beasts in PvP in the right hands, the enchants make us way over the top just as they make TR's grossly overpowered.
it really isnt that hard to kill a gf lol, a guide from the pro rogues in your guild isnt needed. a rogue can simple use duelist flurry to eat away your shield easy, Impossible to Catch to prevent knockdowns in melee range and after your shield is down, its pretty much gg from there....where's the secret lol.
I would admit that gf's are prolly the most difficult class to solo in the game.....But what else do you expect from a tank? :P
dps tanks on the other hand....hate em b!7che$
just lol
i doubt it highly...
From #1 Guild Pve/Pvp [ Lemonade Stand ]
You think that damage is 'really low' for a tank class? Wow, you do realize you just said that about a tank class right? Just wow....
P.S. - Are you sure you know it's a tank class?
/mindboggled
Cleric was nerfed just to make a room for GF not as tank but just for another dps, there are nothing who really need a tank in this game and the block ability is almost useless except in PVP.
It's the only reason why, GF are OP for the moment.
Very good dps, very good defence and they can chain control a single target like a control wizard, something is wrong and a nerf will come soon unless they want to loose most of the clerics.
And a game without clerics. . .when the only srtat is add add add and bumps should be more unpleasant.
Well we ll see.
.
A PvP match without clerics sounds awesome. I really don't like healing in my PvP. Since it is Player vs Player not Player vs Watch me heal.
Next. You do have a team right ? A clerics team is supposed to guard him and peel. That is there purpose!! A cleric alone should get nuked. A cleric with a team should never die. See the difference there. Tank clerics already require 3 ppl to kill them. I don't know what you want. There still on the OP side if geared and played right.
funny thing is i like this games pve play a lot but not its pvp even tho i would like to like it. but before any fix can be attempted class wise cryptic needs to get a handle on the bots in pvp. as well as plug up a lot of the exploits. first so it can be seem if a class power is in fact pvp game breaking or just someone exploiting or hacking that power to gain an advantage in pvp.
u ignorant ****, what about go check skills and feats of a GF before u start whining?
DO U UNDERSTAND there is a pure DPS FEAT TREE that has nothing to do with tanking, and which make gf normall dps class???
Yes i know he use shield so probably ur fail kid's imagination told u they "have to tank".
but still they are crippled, as the only class, by having no crts, other classes got about 2-4 x more crit chance than gf
Dude I've been bull charged and hit with lunging strike for 15k plus. Your numbers are either lies or you don't know your own class.