test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

((T2)) Thaumaturge Spec/Powers/Role

1235722

Comments

  • copticonecopticone Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    schulz87 wrote: »
    Is the guide for t2 dungeon still updated with the latest patch? so on clearing mobs its COI tab, icy, stealtime, shield, on boss fights usually just swap COI with EF?

    Yes it's been updated. On Trash (and even mini-bosses that have adds) I personally go with CoI on mastery, icy Terrain, Steal Time and Shield.
    Mastery Changes depends on what Boss I am fighting. But something like Draco, then obviously EF. Spellplague I put Repel in Mastery. Dread Icy Rays.
    Check out my personal Nerf Proof T2 Thaumaturge Build.
  • crystal892fcrystal892f Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 385 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    copticone wrote: »
    Also make use of Ray of Frost to build a few stacks before throwing CoI. That way you can freeze them initially, then when they come at you you still have EF. When EF is on Cooldown, Repel/Shield Pulse.
    I tested some frost powers pre-patch to see which ones freeze and from these experiences I can say CoI on Spell Mastery couldn't freeze. It built and maintained 6 stacks, but for the last tick to freeze I had to use RoF.
    Did that change?
  • schulz87schulz87 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    copticone wrote: »
    Yes it's been updated. On Trash (and even mini-bosses that have adds) I personally go with CoI on mastery, icy Terrain, Steal Time and Shield.
    Mastery Changes depends on what Boss I am fighting. But something like Draco, then obviously EF. Spellplague I put Repel in Mastery. Dread Icy Rays.

    what about karun? you still use EF or its better with COI now?: Havnt tried COI yet on final boss, been using EF
  • threeravensthreeravens Member Posts: 50
    edited June 2013
    copticone wrote: »
    Another TIP:

    Another good tip for any CW regardless of the build/spec.

    /gfxsetdefaultfov 90

    IMO It makes you much more aware of your surroundings.

    Don't need to type the command. You can set it manually and permanently in the gameprefs.pref file. It's located in the Neverwinter\Live\Localdata folder.
  • gallantflamegallantflame Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Very Basic Q ...when you say "I put COI or Repel in Mastery"...do you mean drag Arcane Presence to the Tab slot and then put Power of choice on top? pre-respec I was able to do this, but now I cannot. Can you give (a barely T1 player) advice please and thanks:)

    ATM playing on regular Neverwinter not on the Shard.
  • agiletalentagiletalent Member Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    No need to drag any Arcane Presence. You simply drag the power in question into your tab slot, like you would for the E, R, etc slots/buttons. You gain the "mastery" effect on any spell by virtue of placing it in the "tab" slot.
  • copticonecopticone Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I tested some frost powers pre-patch to see which ones freeze and from these experiences I can say CoI on Spell Mastery couldn't freeze. It built and maintained 6 stacks, but for the last tick to freeze I had to use RoF.
    Did that change?

    It doesn't on its own and I dont know why. But in a rotation, with Chilling Cloud/Icy Terrain/Ray of Frost, throwing CoI will freeze. Tested it on dummies.
    Very Basic Q ...when you say "I put COI or Repel in Mastery"...do you mean drag Arcane Presence to the Tab slot and then put Power of choice on top? pre-respec I was able to do this, but now I cannot. Can you give (a barely T1 player) advice please and thanks:)

    ATM playing on regular Neverwinter not on the Shard.

    Not sure what you mean. the Mastery slot is the TAB key. Arcane Presence is a Class Feature. It doesn't go in the Mastery slot, never did. You can put it in the small square that are between the TAB and Q.
    Also I wouldnt be using Arcane Presence at all myself.
    schulz87 wrote: »
    what about karun? you still use EF or its better with COI now?: Havnt tried COI yet on final boss, been using EF

    Karun is now considered a T1 after they nerfed it. I dont slot EF at all for Karun, not even on the dragon fight. CoI on Mastery the entire run. For the mini-bosses, I switch out Icy Terrain for Chill Strike, since we always pull the boss alone. On final boss, I am fighting the boss within 10ft with AoEs to also take care of the adds at the same time. CoI on Master, Icy Terrain, Steal Time and Shield in constant rotation, and Ice Storm spam when AP is full.
    Check out my personal Nerf Proof T2 Thaumaturge Build.
  • buravidburavid Member Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Great info, thank you for sharing. I'm going to try out your spec as soon at I hit level 60 in a few days. I can't afford a T2 set yet. Which T1 set do you recommend for someone just starting out, Focal, Fatebender, Archmage or PVP? I play only PVE but on the "CW Epic Gear" spread sheet the PVP set looks like it might be OK for PVE and is pretty easy to obtain.
  • copticonecopticone Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    buravid wrote: »
    Great info, thank you for sharing. I'm going to try out your spec as soon at I hit level 60 in a few days. I can't afford a T2 set yet. Which T1 set do you recommend for someone just starting out, Focal, Fatebender, Archmage or PVP? I play only PVE but on the "CW Epic Gear" spread sheet the PVP set looks like it might be OK for PVE and is pretty easy to obtain.

    PvP set is great. Or you can go with 2pc Focal for the crit, and 2pc for recovery.
    Check out my personal Nerf Proof T2 Thaumaturge Build.
  • pednickpednick Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I've noticed that you edited your page on 06-17-2013 which was quite recent, did that include updating the graphic where you said:

    Feats
    You should drop the Devestating shroud feats (the ones that buff shocking execution) and take either the 1% AP on kill, or 10% threat reduction feat, depending on your needs. I will update the graphic later on.
    Be a Leet D00D, can't think of something smart? Always blame the economy.
  • gallantflamegallantflame Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Thank you for clearing this up for me. Steep learning curve obviously ;)
  • copticonecopticone Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    pednick wrote: »
    I've noticed that you edited your page on 06-17-2013 which was quite recent, did that include updating the graphic where you said:

    Feats
    You should drop the Devestating shroud feats (the ones that buff shocking execution) and take either the 1% AP on kill, or 10% threat reduction feat, depending on your needs. I will update the graphic later on.

    ?? Sorry friend. No idea what you are referring to.
    Check out my personal Nerf Proof T2 Thaumaturge Build.
  • mezzqtmezzqt Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Hey there, I made a CW as an alt just to try the class out. Your build caught my eye as I liked the idea of an aoe spec to suit the control role of a CW, so I'm trying to piece the build together as I go about leveling.

    What I can say is.. I don't think this build really works till you get certain core feats in the paragon tree perhaps, I'm not CW expert myself, but I'm currently leveling with a random mix of skills, and still finding magic missile to be better than cloud *atm*. But like you said in the other Thauma guide, you can level with anything lmao, and indeed I am >.<

    Just a couple of quick questions after reading through the posts:

    1) I heard that Tempest Magic doesn't work with Tiefling's racial, should I still get this feat as a Tiefling CW?

    2) And since Wizard's Wrath and Focused Wizardry don't work on CoI / Icy Terrain I went 4/5 Fight On, 3/3 Wizard's Wrath, 0/3 Arcane Enhancement and 5/5 Learned Spellcaster.

    My rationale is since Wizard's Wrath works on Steal Time/Shield (dunno about AS) and it gives the same damage bonus as Arcane Enhancement, I'd prefer lower CDs on my encounters and the 5% flat damage bonus from Learned Spellcaster. Would love to hear your thoughts on this, thanks!
  • drnmagerdrnmager Member Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Absolutely love the guide, thank you for explaining everything in detail as welll.

    Just one question, is Arcane Presence worth slotting to rank 3? Seems like at some point it could become viable. I have 4 points left so i can either slot 2 to finish Arcane Presence, 1 to finish Orb of Imposition, 3 into Opressive Force, 3 into Sudden Storm, 3 into Storm Pillar, 3 into Icy Rays, 3 into Maelstrom of Chaos, or 3 into Shard of the Endless Avalanche.
  • copticonecopticone Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    mezzqt wrote: »
    Hey there, I made a CW as an alt just to try the class out. Your build caught my eye as I liked the idea of an aoe spec to suit the control role of a CW, so I'm trying to piece the build together as I go about leveling.

    What I can say is.. I don't think this build really works till you get certain core feats in the paragon tree perhaps, I'm not CW expert myself, but I'm currently leveling with a random mix of skills, and still finding magic missile to be better than cloud *atm*. But like you said in the other Thauma guide, you can level with anything lmao, and indeed I am >.<

    Yes you are correct. This build comes together with all the Paragon Feats in place. That's why I specifically titled it a T2 build. :)
    mezzqt wrote: »
    1) I heard that Tempest Magic doesn't work with Tiefling's racial, should I still get this feat as a Tiefling CW?

    yea, I answered this already. The way it works is that the greater of the two will apply. So at 50% your Tiefling racial is active. Then at 33% Tempest Magic becomes active. So IMO I think it is worth it. Plus maybe it will get fixed soon. With the cost of respecs, it's not worth it to keep rescpecing every time a bug is fixed or another one is added to the list. lol
    mezzqt wrote: »
    2) And since Wizard's Wrath and Focused Wizardry don't work on CoI / Icy Terrain I went 4/5 Fight On, 3/3 Wizard's Wrath, 0/3 Arcane Enhancement and 5/5 Learned Spellcaster.

    That's fine. Not much here is set in stone.

    drnmager wrote: »
    Absolutely love the guide, thank you for explaining everything in detail as welll.

    Just one question, is Arcane Presence worth slotting to rank 3? Seems like at some point it could become viable. I have 4 points left so i can either slot 2 to finish Arcane Presence, 1 to finish Orb of Imposition, 3 into Opressive Force, 3 into Sudden Storm, 3 into Storm Pillar, 3 into Icy Rays, 3 into Maelstrom of Chaos, or 3 into Shard of the Endless Avalanche.
    I personally dont think Arcane Presence is worth it. With 4 points left, I would definitely put 3 in Icy Rays. Then the left over point maybe in Storm Pillar for when you are with a group that takes lots of afks, so you can recharge your AP :P
    Check out my personal Nerf Proof T2 Thaumaturge Build.
  • mezzqtmezzqt Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Okay cheers, thanks for the answers. You're definitely right about the respecs, sure they're not terribly expensive but if you do it often enough it'll add up :/

    I was just thinking of how to min/max my CW for 60 T2 content haha, but I suppose after things get fixed to apply correctly the AOE feats would pull ahead maybe. But 5% damage across the board is still too lucrative to pass up imo, especially if you're swapping to single target dps for certain T2 bosses or PVP
  • pednickpednick Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    copticone wrote: »
    ?? Sorry friend. No idea what you are referring to.

    Heh sorry, I replied in wrong thread, I had more than one tab up in the browser, was suppose to be in the TR Metzli page.
    Be a Leet D00D, can't think of something smart? Always blame the economy.
  • wrastorwrastor Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I've noticed you said you don't need more than 1000 armor pen. I've researched and read on numerous accounts that armor penetration goes before mitigation debuffs, allowing targets to reach negatives. Also, bosses in current content have 24% while brutes (elite melee) have 22% and everyone else have varying degrees of mitigation down to a minimum of 12.8% (thus being the soft-cap).

    Have you tested this yourself to find out if mitigation debuffs actually happen before armor penetration? I'm curious to see what your findings say in all honesty.
  • copticonecopticone Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    wrastor wrote: »
    I've noticed you said you don't need more than 1000 armor pen. I've researched and read on numerous accounts that armor penetration goes before mitigation debuffs, allowing targets to reach negatives. Also, bosses in current content have 24% while brutes (elite melee) have 22% and everyone else have varying degrees of mitigation down to a minimum of 12.8% (thus being the soft-cap).

    Have you tested this yourself to find out if mitigation debuffs actually happen before armor penetration? I'm curious to see what your findings say in all honesty.

    That is not why I said you don't need more than 1000. It's that with CoI's constant debuff, Elemental Empowerment, Plague Fire, in my case the High Vizier debuff, then add all the feats that also buff your damage, all this gives you plenty to dish out the damage which allows you the opportunity to balance out your other stats.
    If you want to increase your raw damage more at maybe the expense of other stats, you can definitely add more ArP. Since our main focus is to survive long enough to maintain maximum control on mobs, more so now than before the patch, I think increasing your raw damage is secondary to survivability. Also if you think about it, survivability increases your overall damage. My ArP is now just over 1000, but I managed to sqeeze 11.3% Life Steal, and it is making a big difference, especially on runs without a Tank.
    Check out my personal Nerf Proof T2 Thaumaturge Build.
  • omgitsloganomgitslogan Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Would you recommend this build for leveling or should I go with a different build?
  • copticonecopticone Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Would you recommend this build for leveling or should I go with a different build?

    I would recommend "no build" for leveling. Put points in any Power you are curious about. Just because someone says this Power is useless, don't just take their word for it. Try it. At least even if it is useless, you would know why. With regards to feats. The Renegade tree even with the recent nerf is more useful for leveling. Then when you get to 60, you can respec to this build or something that fits your playstyle.
    Check out my personal Nerf Proof T2 Thaumaturge Build.
  • drnmagerdrnmager Member Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    What do you suggest for utility and defensive slots?
  • copticonecopticone Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    drnmager wrote: »
    What do you suggest for utility and defensive slots?

    Utility - Movement

    Defensive - currently I opted for Life Steal. But if you cant get at least 1500, then perhaps stick with Defense.
    Check out my personal Nerf Proof T2 Thaumaturge Build.
  • joppy44joppy44 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I tried the build last nite and it went really well.

    What do you think about having both regen and lifesteal? I have about 1000 regen now and 500 lifesteal. The plaguefire enchants are not available on the AH (dragon server), so I was thinking of using lifedrinker as the weapon enchant to make up the difference in the low lifesteal (plus extra 6% damage to mobs) I currently have. You are now getting heals when moving and not doing damage from regen and lifesteal when killing stuff. I think it should work pretty well.
  • copticonecopticone Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    joppy44 wrote: »
    I tried the build last nite and it went really well.

    What do you think about having both regen and lifesteal? I have about 1000 regen now and 500 lifesteal. The plaguefire enchants are not available on the AH (dragon server), so I was thinking of using lifedrinker as the weapon enchant to make up the difference in the low lifesteal (plus extra 6% damage to mobs) I currently have. You are now getting heals when moving and not doing damage from regen and lifesteal when killing stuff. I think it should work pretty well.

    Regen is good for someone for a character with lots of Mitigation and/or lots of health. CWs have neither. WIth Regen if you get hit for 10k, you will have to teleport, kite, run around, for quite a while, before you can rebound again. With life Steal, you get hit with 10k and are surrounded by a few mobs, one shield pulse can heal you for almost the same amount. It would be better if your numbers were switched, 1000Life Steal and 500 regen.
    With regards to Lifedrinker, I do not think it is worth it. 6% heal on hit, that's like 50hp. It would help to top you off, but I wont save you have a big hit. The advantage of Life Steal is its spike heals. If not Plague Fire, it is probably better to use Vorpal, which would work better with Life Steal, giving you even bigger spike heals.
    Check out my personal Nerf Proof T2 Thaumaturge Build.
  • keltinblaze1keltinblaze1 Member Posts: 78
    edited June 2013
    copticone, im not a thaum build. just here for your opinion. I'm currently oppressor with 3k defense (i built my cw tanky, while keeping the high recharge/ap gain) planning on dropping the greaterplague for something else, was thinking lifedrinker but i noticed your above post ^ mentioned its not worth it. my 2nd option was going greater holy avenger (to fit my playstyle, im full support if you didn't notice) but i am curious about that regeneration. I'm currently 23.7k hp, 3k defense, 36.4% dmg resistance, 13% deflection. Do you think if i were to stack regeneration into this build, would it compliment it well?
    KING Ethan Ma Chao Lu Xun - Dragon Shard - Black Lotus


    Check out my CW Oppressor Tank Guide Here
  • wrastorwrastor Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    copticone wrote: »
    That is not why I said you don't need more than 1000. It's that with CoI's constant debuff, Elemental Empowerment, Plague Fire, in my case the High Vizier debuff, then add all the feats that also buff your damage, all this gives you plenty to dish out the damage which allows you the opportunity to balance out your other stats.
    If you want to increase your raw damage more at maybe the expense of other stats, you can definitely add more ArP. Since our main focus is to survive long enough to maintain maximum control on mobs, more so now than before the patch, I think increasing your raw damage is secondary to survivability. Also if you think about it, survivability increases your overall damage. My ArP is now just over 1000, but I managed to sqeeze 11.3% Life Steal, and it is making a big difference, especially on runs without a Tank.

    Well that's what the augment pet is for, I believe. I've never ran a no tank group before, and I survive just as fine. Interesting to note I suppose.
  • copticonecopticone Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    copticone, im not a thaum build. just here for your opinion. I'm currently oppressor with 3k defense (i built my cw tanky, while keeping the high recharge/ap gain) planning on dropping the greaterplague for something else, was thinking lifedrinker but i noticed your above post ^ mentioned its not worth it. my 2nd option was going greater holy avenger (to fit my playstyle, im full support if you didn't notice) but i am curious about that regeneration. I'm currently 23.7k hp, 3k defense, 36.4% dmg resistance, 13% deflection. Do you think if i were to stack regeneration into this build, would it compliment it well?

    Ok...you have high Defense, so that is good for Regeneration. But this is how it works. To make maximum use of Regen, you need to be getting hit. Not only that, but you also need to be constantly at half health or so because of how Regen works. In order to accomplish this as a CW you need to be dishing a lot of damage so you can get aggro and get hit. Do you think you will be doing enough damage to get hit in return, and then kite around to get topped off. In my opinion, a CW kiting alot is very ineffective, since we contribute nothing to the party when we are running around. So my opinion if you still have a way to improve your defenses is to try to stack deflection. You are already at a point in Defense where you will not get good returns, leaving HP and Deflection as your only alternatives.

    With regards to Weapon enchant, I feel that Plague fire is BEST used on a CW, since we can apply its debuff quicker and better than other classes. I like the concept of Holy Avenger, but that 60second cooldown is what makes it a little unattractive.
    Check out my personal Nerf Proof T2 Thaumaturge Build.
  • kbisthemankbistheman Member Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    What is your GS if you don't mind me asking?
  • spacejewspacejew Member Posts: 1,044 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    Whatever spell check you are using Copticone it is failing. It is not now, nor has it ever been, 'Steel Time'. Time is not made of metal. You are robbing people of their time, which is why it is called 'Steal Time'. I know it's just a nitpick, but it drives me crazy seeing you making the same mistake every single time you type the name of that skill.

    I don't see anything at all in your build about how Entangling Force in the tab slot fills half a bar of AP though. It seems like that would be the kind of thing you would mention since it's kind of a big f'ing deal.

    I also see no mention of Steal Time's cap of five targets stunned, or Repels cap of five targets knocked. In reading through your 'tips' on T2 content, I have to completely disagree with your methods. Repel on tab for Spellplague? Why on earth would you do that? It's so very, very terribad compared to Entangling Force in your tab slot.

    Actually, Spellplague is a great example of why CW should not build for damage and should instead focus on Control. Damage on the add's is completely wasted damage, but actually controlling and instantly killing the add's is the name of the game. Your DPS is literally inconsequential in that fight, it's all about how fast you can chain your abilities together. Now that I think about it, that's true in Castle Never as well. I'll take an INT/WIS Control Wizard over some scrub that went with INT/CHA any day of the week.

    All of that said, Thaumaturge seems like a really solid tree and your build is fine. It trades team utility that currently doesn't function very well and trades it for more damage on your Control abilities, which if you did focus on INT/WIS means you don't need to rely on CHA to pump damage. So at the end of the day, Kudos!

    EDIT:

    In all fairness you did mention Entangling Force on tab, it's just far, far down inside the Castle Never advice you give which is pretty accurate. I can agree to disagree in other spots, I don't know the people you play with after all! ^_^
    MoF/Thaum CW SS/Thaum CW IV/Protector GF SW/Combat HR SM/Destroyer GWF WK/Executioner TR DO/Faithful DC
This discussion has been closed.