Well after following this thread for a bit more I bit the bullet and bought life steal orb, offhand, neck, rings and belt for both me and my stone, and slotted them with arpen and crit. Final stats were Power ~3000, Recovery ~3000, Crit ~2000, ArPen ~1000, Defense ~800, Life Steal ~1500. This is with mostly lv 5 enchants so I anticipate improving some of it.
Anyway, I went and ran the Mindflayer caves and the last instance quest in that area which I always had trouble soloing. Difference in ease to solo the whole thing was simply ridiculous. So much easier to bust everything down while still keeping my health decently up and also throwing dailies every 1 o 2 encounters. Crazy effective. Still have to see how I perform in an actual dungeon run but I am very optimistic.
Once again thanks for the testing and though it cost me a pretty penny to gear up in this way you probably saved me several times that in what it would have taken me to experiment it on my own.
Well after following this thread for a bit more I bit the bullet and bought life steal orb, offhand, neck, rings and belt for both me and my stone, and slotted them with arpen and crit. Final stats were Power ~3000, Recovery ~3000, Crit ~2000, ArPen ~1000, Defense ~800, Life Steal ~1500. This is with mostly lv 5 enchants so I anticipate improving some of it.
Anyway, I went and ran the Mindflayer caves and the last instance quest in that area which I always had trouble soloing. Difference in ease to solo the whole thing was simply ridiculous. So much easier to bust everything down while still keeping my health decently up and also throwing dailies every 1 o 2 encounters. Crazy effective. Still have to see how I perform in an actual dungeon run but I am very optimistic.
Once again thanks for the testing and though it cost me a pretty penny to gear up in this way you probably saved me several times that in what it would have taken me to experiment it on my own.
Hey I am glad it worked out. Yea just remember, you are not a tank, so don't crazy lol. It just nice to know when you get hit, and your Pot is on cooldown, you know that popping your shield or doing some nice AoE burst will top you off just as well.
noojsterMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 23Arc User
edited June 2013
Thanks for the advice previously copticone, will be going for some ArPs once I get the right equipment.
So far with zero ArPs I still did pretty good with this build and even had most damage dealt ratings.
I followed your Arcane Singularity/Chill Strike Conduit of Ice in mastery, then Steal Time, Shield and Icy terrain setup.
Only difference I think is Ive got Arcane Presence and Eye of the storm for my passives. Arcane Presence boosts my cold damage as well for some arcane mastery stacks right?
As you've said, beautiful AoE and DPS harmony, I start with a couple of magic missiles, then cast Arcane Singularity, burst out the shield, place in Icy terrain,and once Arcane Singularity is about to finish I cast Steal Time, when the mob is stunned I then cast conduit of ice then Chilling Cloud bursts.. by the time I finish I almost have or already have another daily. Not only that my comrades love what I am doing.
The only difficulty I have sometimes is when the area is too huge even for arcane singularity such as the Mad Dragon Lair. How do you manage to deal with the scattered mobs all over the place?
Thanks!
MeyvnHart
Lvl 60 Control Wizard (Tiefling) - Spellstorm Mage [Thauma-DPS]
Philippines' <TANGINA MO PO KOYA> Guild
Mindflayer Server
Thanks for the advice previously copticone, will be going for some ArPs once I get the right equipment.
So far with zero ArPs I still did pretty good with this build and even had most damage dealt ratings.
I followed your Arcane Singularity/Chill Strike Conduit of Ice in mastery, then Steal Time, Shield and Icy terrain setup.
Only difference I think is Ive got Arcane Presence and Eye of the storm for my passives. Arcane Presence boosts my cold damage as well for some arcane mastery stacks right?
As you've said, beautiful AoE and DPS harmony, I start with a couple of magic missiles, then cast Arcane Singularity, burst out the shield, place in Icy terrain,and once Arcane Singularity is about to finish I cast Steal Time, when the mob is stunned I then cast conduit of ice then Chilling Cloud bursts.. by the time I finish I almost have or already have another daily. Not only that my comrades love what I am doing.
The only difficulty I have sometimes is when the area is too huge even for arcane singularity such as the Mad Dragon Lair. How do you manage to deal with the scattered mobs all over the place?
Thanks!
For mad dragon I would switch out icy terrain and steal time for RoE and chill Strike because most of the time you're either on the dragon or taking down one of those winged ladies I forgot their name. So you want single target plus debuffs. Also in the final phase when those healer mobs come out you want to single target them quick. Only one person should be on the dragon 100%. Everyone else is dealing with the adds and only getting on the dragon when everything else is dead.
Hey there, just wanted to point a few things out about Elemental Empowerment I noticed while leveling my CW:
- Doesn't work on Icy Terrain (tabbed/untabbed)
- Doesn't work on Icy Rays (tabbed/untabbed, first/second use)
- Doesn't work on Chill Strike tabbed (whether initial target, or AOE targets), but works on non-tabbed Chill Strike
- Works fine on Conduit of Ice, tabbed/untabbed
Haven't tried it out on Shard, because I don't really plan to get it, and I haven't reached that level yet. But with these effects in mind, I think Chilling Cloud's 3rd strike proccing it doesn't seem terribly OP seeing that most of our frost spells don't even proc this feat.
Tested exclusively using Frost spells, haven't tried with Arcane yet, though Steal Time tabbed/untabbed procs it. But this is just my 2 cents for those theorycrafters out there! Disclaimer: My 'tests' are simple observations of whether the debuff procs on the target, I'm not sure if the feat actually does damage w/o the debuff present though, so if somebody can enlighten me on whether my observations are correct it'll be most appreciated.
Hey there, just wanted to point a few things out about Elemental Empowerment I noticed while leveling my CW:
- Doesn't work on Icy Terrain (tabbed/untabbed)
- Doesn't work on Icy Rays (tabbed/untabbed, first/second use)
- Doesn't work on Chill Strike tabbed (whether initial target, or AOE targets), but works on non-tabbed Chill Strike
- Works fine on Conduit of Ice, tabbed/untabbed
Haven't tried it out on Shard, because I don't really plan to get it, and I haven't reached that level yet. But with these effects in mind, I think Chilling Cloud's 3rd strike proccing it doesn't seem terribly OP seeing that most of our frost spells don't even proc this feat.
Tested exclusively using Frost spells, haven't tried with Arcane yet, though Steal Time tabbed/untabbed procs it. But this is just my 2 cents for those theorycrafters out there! Disclaimer: My 'tests' are simple observations of whether the debuff procs on the target, I'm not sure if the feat actually does damage w/o the debuff present though, so if somebody can enlighten me on whether my observations are correct it'll be most appreciated.
On Page 6, I listed the powers that procced it at the time. From my perspective, I am always using at least 4 Powers from that list to proc both Effects of the Feat. Also there isn't ANY other choice to take in this tree that I would consider a better option with my current setup.
Ah yep, forgot about that post. Cryptic should fix it so that our Cold encounters actually apply the debuff rather than relying on Chilling Cloud, because the aoe of the 3rd strike is pretty small at times
Anyway just a quick question to min/max gear at 60: So 1000 arp is the number to shoot for? Does Elemental Empowerment/Assailing Force work like the other mitigation debuffers like Tide of Iron/Wicked Reminder? Other DPS classes advocate ~2k arp for the 22-24% penetration for bosses, so if those feats actually bring the debuff to a negative armour state like Wicked Reminder then higher arp actually benefits us yea?
Afaik only Plaguefire enchant doesn't stack on top of arp, ergo, High Vizier set as well. But other similar skills seem to do so.
/e I guess if our role is purely add control, with the exception of certain fights like Hrimmir, then a lower arp cap could be sufficient since we don't have high boss uptimes like a TR.. but even then, it's still 22%, which is still way more than 1000 arp if the feats I mentioned above work like similar skills in other classes
Ah yep, forgot about that post. Cryptic should fix it so that our Cold encounters actually apply the debuff rather than relying on Chilling Cloud, because the aoe of the 3rd strike is pretty small at times
Anyway just a quick question to min/max gear at 60: So 1000 arp is the number to shoot for? Does Elemental Empowerment/Assailing Force work like the other mitigation debuffers like Tide of Iron/Wicked Reminder? Other DPS classes advocate ~2k arp for the 22-24% penetration for bosses, so if those feats actually bring the debuff to a negative armour state like Wicked Reminder then higher arp actually benefits us yea?
Afaik only Plaguefire enchant doesn't stack on top of arp, ergo, High Vizier set as well. But other similar skills seem to do so.
/e I guess if our role is purely add control, with the exception of certain fights like Hrimmir, then a lower arp cap could be sufficient since we don't have high boss uptimes like a TR.. but even then, it's still 22%, which is still way more than 1000 arp if the feats I mentioned above work like similar skills in other classes
Yeah I know, I meant that if our feat debuffs actually stack with arp, then stacking more arp on our gear is a good and sure way to increase our damage output. Like the example I gave with GF/TR, I have arp cap on those classes on my alts and Tide/WR still increases the damage I deal on them because they debuff past 0 armour.
If our recovery is satisfactory to perform our cc duties, then I'm pretty sure arp is the best dmg stat we can shoot for compared to crit/power since we're not Renegade and don't benefit that drastically from crit %.
But if they don't actually stack, but rather contribute to arp, then it'll be a poor stat to stack once you reach the softcap :x
/e After reading through the wording of the feats it's possible to deduce that Elemental Empowerment and High Vizier set don't stack with arp, assuming they work similar to Plaguefire (reduction of defense i.e armour penetration). So only Conduit from Assailing Force, which reduces mitigation, is the only thing we have aside from RoE that negates armour past 0. Well, theoretically that would mean arp isn't a very desired stat for us to cap out depending on EE uptime, and whether you use High Vizier/Plague Fire would be nice to know an exact number to cap out at though.
Technically ArP never takes mitigation into the negatives. ArP is applied first, and then all the other things (feats/set bonuses/enchants) apply after, in terms of damage calculation. At least that's how I understand it. Going back to your question, yea I never said 1000 reaches some cap with this build. If you have your other stats balanced, and still have room to add more stats, then sure add more ArP. I just find it, that after the recent update, defensive stats stacking should take priority.
Yup that is correct, but according to the information in Metzli's TR thread, skills like Wicked Reminder are capable of taking mitigation into the negative, that's why it's still useful even if you hit the arp cap. So assuming (arp + plague fire/high vizier/elemental empowerment) to reach 24% reduction, then stuff like Assailing Force / RoE will negate the 0 mitigation further.
I do suppose defense is a strong priority now with the AShield nerfs and Cleric reduction of threat. Depends on whether you run with a good GF or usually pug your delves the mileage you get from stacking defensively varies.. Personally I'd think the best defense is more offense, getting sufficient recovery to do a weave of chill stacking/AS/Steal Time to cc the mobs into oblivion. Plus, I don't think you'd have to worry much about larger mobs with unstoppable buff like Maws in Spellplague or Rime golems in FH since a TR generally, or maybe a GF would be focusing on them to hold aggro.
Sorry for being longwinded haha, I'm only speculating, since my first hand experiences only go as far as observing the many CWs of varying skills in my dungeon runs on other classes. Though I think a certain level of defense/hp is needed (at least to prevent a 1 shot by a swarm of mobs) to give a buffer time for you to cc them in case you screw up a rotation or mistime a shield punt. I don't think life steal is worth stacking unless you fulfill these requirements tbh.
0
schulz87Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 6Arc User
Ok bear in mind that you if do not have my build with the same feats, you may get different results. This is proven with EotS and other things. That said, the following procs Elemental Empowerment:
Cold Effect:-
Chilling Cloud (On the third hit)
Conduit of Ice
Arcane Effect:-
Steel Time
Shield Pulse
Entangling Force
Repel
Ray of Enfeeblement!! (But in a seriously bugged way, as it looks like it's giving the target a buff, DONT use it)
So from the looks of it. Elemental Empowerment is AWESOME, specifically for this build.
Can you please do the same for skill procing vizier set? thanks man!
This is a great thread, you have provoked some interesting debate, and your original post is really nice, too. It's def. one that I point people to when they're having l2CW woes and ask for help, as it's a fairly reliable way to get someone on the right track with PvE. Thanks for that, you have saved a lot of explaining, and a certain amount of testing spadework too.
(..and *cough* it's nice to get some approximate info on what to do on some boss fights. When you don't know at first it can leave you open to a lot of attitude and terrible advice from other players who tell you total nonsense- with an air of absolute authority. Really nice section..)
Would you consider consolidating some of the other good stuff in this thread, and adding some remarks to the OP about character stats (wis/int/cha etc.), and their weightings, as well as priorities and rough ballpark figures as minimum for stats like crit, def etc.? Where there seem to be soft caps too, it might be worth mentioning briefly that "after X, this stat seems to decline in value". I'm not asking for any new annoying spreadsheet warrior stuff, just updating the first post with some of the useful tidbits in the rest of the thread. Even some rough guidelines will answer a lot of the common questions that folks have, and adding it to the first post would be really handy.
Edit:
Yeah, I know, you claim it isn't a guide, but you've more or less written one now, anyway- only without all the waffle that you usually get. What it covers is what people really want to know, how not to suck when they start setting themselves up for higher-end dungeons. Let's face it, a "levelling guide" is hardly necessary anyway, you can pretty much get to 60 by rolling your face on the keyboard. The levelling content is pretty and fun, but it's hardly challenging.
I've been following this thread and have been trying out this spec. So far its a great change for me and I'm loving it! I'm still semi new to the CW scene and wanted to ask (probably a dumb) question. Last night I tried out swapping out frozen terrain and COI so frozen terrain is in my master spot. It allowed me to range more and drop the ice on the tank when he rushes forward to engage and much quicker too since you can run along with the target circle not placed yet then drop it on the spot when needed then follow up with a coi immediately. I did notice that my dps went down, and Im thinking that Im losing chill stacks this way too, however it was super nice to range a bit more and have more of a birds eye view of the battle. Any thoughts on a way to make this viable? Thanks!
Also for anyone who doesn't know...this command in game /gfxsetdefaultfov 82 will widen your field of view/set your camera distance farther away from your toon. the sides fishbowl a bit but still, totally worth it.
Last night I tried out swapping out frozen terrain and COI so frozen terrain is in my master spot. It allowed me to range more and drop the ice on the tank when he rushes forward to engage and much quicker too since you can run along with the target circle not placed yet then drop it on the spot when needed then follow up with a coi immediately.
I've also wished for a way to do this, tabbed Icy is just awesome to use. However, remember you also want to be using Steal Time and Shield Pop which cannot do this, so what I figured is I might as well have all my areas follow the same positioning, if those two are centered around me then it's not really a big deal to have Icy be as well
Yeah I agree, just did a run with a pug and slotted coi back in master and creamed everyone on the parse. It IS a rush to stand in the middle of all the chaos and just hammer/stun everything constantly. The lifesteal is a dream as well. Have mine up to 1425 and I always come in #2 on the heal parse.....which is a good thing since I come in just under the tank on dmg taken too lmao. Easy to drop fast if anything goes wrong though...it has happened to me....and with as unforgiving as this game is on deaths that is the only downside. Going to see if I can figure a way to get more lifesteal tonight.
Yea, you really want to play a cw like a melee class with slightly bigger range. You want to be in the middle of everything. CoI on tab is a much better option than Icy Terrain on Tab. Do the same thing with it when the tank rushes in. It will apply chill on everything around him while doing pretty good damage in a decent size radius. Then you want to teleport in quickly and throw down the icy terrain.
My main in eq2 was a melee specced MT raiding coercer for the past few years, so Im familiar with melee mages and its all good. BTW I didn't say THANK YOU for taking the time to help so many of us, awesome job and I check this thread daily to see what new things you come up with hehe.
Just did a run on mad dragon with a pug. We got one shot in then healer left (bastage). Like I said Im still new to NW and CW so here are a couple questions......because when asked for a strat for the final boss all we got was "standard dragon rules apply", which is great if you know what the standard rules are lmao. I've been told to prioritize adds then spawners....all well and good but last couple groups were doing that and nothing else. 20 min fight with barely any dps on the boss. Do the magus spawns stack up or only repop when killed? Also, Iv's seen a lot of people running willy nilly dodging cones and aoes etc. Would it not make more sense to cluster in the middle where the cleric has a chance to heal peeps and we can benefit from cc and buffs etc, strafing around the dragon as it turns to stay on its *** and teleport jousting the red circles, which would be concentrated in one area instead of all over the damned place? if the magus don't keep coming till killed, just let all adds come to us to aoe down while dpsing the dragon?
Probrably the wrong thread for this and I apologize, just wondering if its a viable strat or is there something Im not seeing.
Do the magus spawns stack up or only repop when killed? Also, Iv's seen a lot of people running willy nilly dodging cones and aoes etc. Would it not make more sense to cluster in the middle where the cleric has a chance to heal peeps and we can benefit from cc and buffs etc, strafing around the dragon as it turns to stay on its *** and teleport jousting the red circles, which would be concentrated in one area instead of all over the damned place? if the magus don't keep coming till killed, just let all adds come to us to aoe down while dpsing the dragon?
Magus will keep spawning from the front of the room (slightly leftside near the door) and the very back of the room (slightly rightside). So, they stack up. This combined with their aoe is pretty much the only priority in the entire fight.
Once your tank, or closest equivalent, realises how ridiculously tankable the Mad Dragon is, like in most MMOs you will want to tank the dragon against a wall to eliminate almost all the damage the dragon creates into the center of the room. The right wall or left wall are best due to the Magus spawn. You want to keep the Magus and their aoe as far away as possible from the tank since that's pretty much the only thing that can kill him.
Extra adds spawn at I believe 60% and 30%. The first set of extras are just a bunch of melee with Erinyes healers. The second bunch are the same but also contain the "Pit Fiend" aka. Shocktroop Devil. There are a couple of ways to do it, but basically the only consistently survivable way I have found for any PuG to get past the 30% adds is to tell them to focus on only the Magus then the Pit Fiend. Slightly more pro players, especially rogues, can drag the Fiend away, directing its aoe away from the center of the dungeon and nuke it by themselves (this is much easier post-patch due to the Cleric threat fix).
So, once you take all the above into account, you quickly realise that Mad Dragon = Magus. That's it.
If you get any spare time mopping up all those adds, including any imps left on your healer which can overwhelm them or use up all their potions surprisingly fast, then you DPS the boss instead. Pretty much the only persons who are dps'ing the boss all the time/regularly are the tank and the healer to keep up healing for the tank or a debuff on the boss.
This is why, regardless of what you do, it is always a long fight. However, if you do it by pinpointing and removing the sources of all that incoming damage, its always a sure thing. Slow, but steady is the way for that fight.
The main problem with the fight, is that everyone has to realise what they are doing but most importantly the skill of the healer has to be quite high (remember this is T1 and it may even be their first ever dungeon). The healer should keep a healing circle NOT at the tank's feet, who does not need such excessive healing and damage resist, but at the current Magus being focused which will also have spawned some painful imps and aoe. If everything is going well, a healer will not be moving much from the center of the room, just shifting from front to back a little bit to place a healing circle at each new Magus being focussed.
As for CW, anything that stops the Magus casting and kills them fast is a good spell, e.g. Entangling or Chill Strike. Probably want RoE for the boss as well if you are confident in controlling the extra add waves. Of course, Steal Time is a staple here too for multiple reasons.
My main in eq2 was a melee specced MT raiding coercer for the past few years, so Im familiar with melee mages and its all good. BTW I didn't say THANK YOU for taking the time to help so many of us, awesome job and I check this thread daily to see what new things you come up with hehe.
Just did a run on mad dragon with a pug. We got one shot in then healer left (bastage). Like I said Im still new to NW and CW so here are a couple questions......because when asked for a strat for the final boss all we got was "standard dragon rules apply", which is great if you know what the standard rules are lmao. I've been told to prioritize adds then spawners....all well and good but last couple groups were doing that and nothing else. 20 min fight with barely any dps on the boss. Do the magus spawns stack up or only repop when killed? Also, Iv's seen a lot of people running willy nilly dodging cones and aoes etc. Would it not make more sense to cluster in the middle where the cleric has a chance to heal peeps and we can benefit from cc and buffs etc, strafing around the dragon as it turns to stay on its *** and teleport jousting the red circles, which would be concentrated in one area instead of all over the damned place? if the magus don't keep coming till killed, just let all adds come to us to aoe down while dpsing the dragon?
Probrably the wrong thread for this and I apologize, just wondering if its a viable strat or is there something Im not seeing.
For Mad Dragon you want 1 person to get aggro of the dragon pull it to the far left side of the room and stay on it the entire fight. Initially no one else dps the boss. The remaining 4 stay by the healer and take care of the adds. Yes the Magus will accumulate if you don't kill them. A cw or gwf takes care of the bats quickly. Even though they are weaklings, they still hurt. After adds are cleared everyone else can dps the boss until more adds spawn and repeat the cycle. It is important for someone to peel any trash off of the one tanking the dragon, preferably someone with range. When the first big wave of adds spawn only the trash handling 4 stay inside the astral shield, while cw gathers all adds. This is the easy phase. The second and final big wave spawn will include the healers. The 4 party members need to focus on 1 healer at a time and burst them down quickly. Once that's done, the rest is easy.
tazeenMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited June 2013
Hey Copticone! Been LOVING the build and I can handle being solo wizard topping the charts if not coming in second and controlling everything I need to. My only question is how do you go about solo wizarding the last boss in CN.. I just cant seem to get it to work!
0
arrtoxMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 1
schulz87Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 6Arc User
edited June 2013
@ Copticone
Have you ever tried deflection for CW? what are your thoughts about that stat? since when I stack lifesteal it isnt much viable in pvp situations, dont wanna waste lifesteal slots on defense tab for equips, maybe on companion its better
Hey Copticone! Been LOVING the build and I can handle being solo wizard topping the charts if not coming in second and controlling everything I need to. My only question is how do you go about solo wizarding the last boss in CN.. I just cant seem to get it to work!
It is definitely not easy doing CN Draco with 1 CW. If you must, you need a GF to go gather Red Mages for you and push them towards you. Then have him be around you and the healer grabbing aggro while you try to stay away from AoEs and Cleaves. Still, if you are not perfect on every punt, you will be in trouble because of the long CD on Shield now. If you have very high recovery, then have the GF also slot the AP buff encounter. That way you can replace Entangling Force in Mastery and use Repel instead.
@ Copticone
Have you ever tried deflection for CW? what are your thoughts about that stat? since when I stack lifesteal it isnt much viable in pvp situations, dont wanna waste lifesteal slots on defense tab for equips, maybe on companion its better
The Lifesteal setup is definitely not intended for PvP. I think the best mitigation for a CW in PvP is Repel. Even if you manage to stack Deflection, you're still a squishy class. Look at TRs, they have deflection but you can still melt them away. A properly timed Repel, can buy you a good 3-4 seconds of mitigation. In that case it would be wiser to just stack HP. But in all honestly, I never attempted to stack Deflection on the CW. So this is just an opinion.
I just noticed the Vizier set SIGNIFICANTLY dropped in price in the last day or so...
Any idea why?
I was saving up and noticed a 50% drop! Glad I didn't buy the gloves and slippers yesterday!
1. tank takes the green lizard to the left wall and keeps it there
2. dps stays more or less on the middle and has 2 tasks - burning down the mages as they appear (always pop at 'top' and 'bottom' relative to tank's position) as well as clearing out the imps so cleric doesn't have to worry and dpsing the boss in between the mages
3. you need to burn the mages because of their attack which puts a circle on the ground ad if you get hit it throws you up and does nasty damage - if that happens to the tank you're in trouble.
So you're basically switching between ads and boss. How fast the fight goes depends on how much dps the group has and how on the ball in regard to ads it is.
I just noticed the Vizier set SIGNIFICANTLY dropped in price in the last day or so...
Any idea why?
I was saving up and noticed a 50% drop! Glad I didn't buy the gloves and slippers yesterday!
Same reason Greater Tenebrous went up in price after its nerf? Sometimes market prices are just a function of supply and demand I guess.
Same reason Greater Tenebrous went up in price after its nerf? Sometimes market prices are just a function of supply and demand I guess.
How do you keep vizier stack up on the buff? It seems the rotation COI and ice ray doesnt give any, while steal time gives 1 regardless of mobs hit, and shield gives 3 buff
How do you keep vizier stack up on the buff? It seems the rotation COI and ice ray doesnt give any, while steal time gives 1 regardless of mobs hit, and shield gives 3 buff
Sometimes you can't keep 3 stacks up but that's perfectly fine .
Comments
Anyway, I went and ran the Mindflayer caves and the last instance quest in that area which I always had trouble soloing. Difference in ease to solo the whole thing was simply ridiculous. So much easier to bust everything down while still keeping my health decently up and also throwing dailies every 1 o 2 encounters. Crazy effective. Still have to see how I perform in an actual dungeon run but I am very optimistic.
Once again thanks for the testing and though it cost me a pretty penny to gear up in this way you probably saved me several times that in what it would have taken me to experiment it on my own.
Hey I am glad it worked out. Yea just remember, you are not a tank, so don't crazy lol. It just nice to know when you get hit, and your Pot is on cooldown, you know that popping your shield or doing some nice AoE burst will top you off just as well.
So far with zero ArPs I still did pretty good with this build and even had most damage dealt ratings.
I followed your Arcane Singularity/Chill Strike Conduit of Ice in mastery, then Steal Time, Shield and Icy terrain setup.
Only difference I think is Ive got Arcane Presence and Eye of the storm for my passives. Arcane Presence boosts my cold damage as well for some arcane mastery stacks right?
As you've said, beautiful AoE and DPS harmony, I start with a couple of magic missiles, then cast Arcane Singularity, burst out the shield, place in Icy terrain,and once Arcane Singularity is about to finish I cast Steal Time, when the mob is stunned I then cast conduit of ice then Chilling Cloud bursts.. by the time I finish I almost have or already have another daily. Not only that my comrades love what I am doing.
The only difficulty I have sometimes is when the area is too huge even for arcane singularity such as the Mad Dragon Lair. How do you manage to deal with the scattered mobs all over the place?
Thanks!
MeyvnHart
Lvl 60 Control Wizard (Tiefling) - Spellstorm Mage [Thauma-DPS]
Philippines' <TANGINA MO PO KOYA> Guild
Mindflayer Server
For mad dragon I would switch out icy terrain and steal time for RoE and chill Strike because most of the time you're either on the dragon or taking down one of those winged ladies I forgot their name. So you want single target plus debuffs. Also in the final phase when those healer mobs come out you want to single target them quick. Only one person should be on the dragon 100%. Everyone else is dealing with the adds and only getting on the dragon when everything else is dead.
- Doesn't work on Icy Terrain (tabbed/untabbed)
- Doesn't work on Icy Rays (tabbed/untabbed, first/second use)
- Doesn't work on Chill Strike tabbed (whether initial target, or AOE targets), but works on non-tabbed Chill Strike
- Works fine on Conduit of Ice, tabbed/untabbed
Haven't tried it out on Shard, because I don't really plan to get it, and I haven't reached that level yet. But with these effects in mind, I think Chilling Cloud's 3rd strike proccing it doesn't seem terribly OP seeing that most of our frost spells don't even proc this feat.
Tested exclusively using Frost spells, haven't tried with Arcane yet, though Steal Time tabbed/untabbed procs it. But this is just my 2 cents for those theorycrafters out there! Disclaimer: My 'tests' are simple observations of whether the debuff procs on the target, I'm not sure if the feat actually does damage w/o the debuff present though, so if somebody can enlighten me on whether my observations are correct it'll be most appreciated.
On Page 6, I listed the powers that procced it at the time. From my perspective, I am always using at least 4 Powers from that list to proc both Effects of the Feat. Also there isn't ANY other choice to take in this tree that I would consider a better option with my current setup.
Anyway just a quick question to min/max gear at 60: So 1000 arp is the number to shoot for? Does Elemental Empowerment/Assailing Force work like the other mitigation debuffers like Tide of Iron/Wicked Reminder? Other DPS classes advocate ~2k arp for the 22-24% penetration for bosses, so if those feats actually bring the debuff to a negative armour state like Wicked Reminder then higher arp actually benefits us yea?
Afaik only Plaguefire enchant doesn't stack on top of arp, ergo, High Vizier set as well. But other similar skills seem to do so.
/e I guess if our role is purely add control, with the exception of certain fights like Hrimmir, then a lower arp cap could be sufficient since we don't have high boss uptimes like a TR.. but even then, it's still 22%, which is still way more than 1000 arp if the feats I mentioned above work like similar skills in other classes
Top of page 9
If our recovery is satisfactory to perform our cc duties, then I'm pretty sure arp is the best dmg stat we can shoot for compared to crit/power since we're not Renegade and don't benefit that drastically from crit %.
But if they don't actually stack, but rather contribute to arp, then it'll be a poor stat to stack once you reach the softcap :x
/e After reading through the wording of the feats it's possible to deduce that Elemental Empowerment and High Vizier set don't stack with arp, assuming they work similar to Plaguefire (reduction of defense i.e armour penetration). So only Conduit from Assailing Force, which reduces mitigation, is the only thing we have aside from RoE that negates armour past 0. Well, theoretically that would mean arp isn't a very desired stat for us to cap out depending on EE uptime, and whether you use High Vizier/Plague Fire
I do suppose defense is a strong priority now with the AShield nerfs and Cleric reduction of threat. Depends on whether you run with a good GF or usually pug your delves the mileage you get from stacking defensively varies.. Personally I'd think the best defense is more offense, getting sufficient recovery to do a weave of chill stacking/AS/Steal Time to cc the mobs into oblivion. Plus, I don't think you'd have to worry much about larger mobs with unstoppable buff like Maws in Spellplague or Rime golems in FH since a TR generally, or maybe a GF would be focusing on them to hold aggro.
Sorry for being longwinded haha, I'm only speculating, since my first hand experiences only go as far as observing the many CWs of varying skills in my dungeon runs on other classes. Though I think a certain level of defense/hp is needed (at least to prevent a 1 shot by a swarm of mobs) to give a buffer time for you to cc them in case you screw up a rotation or mistime a shield punt. I don't think life steal is worth stacking unless you fulfill these requirements tbh.
Can you please do the same for skill procing vizier set? thanks man!
It's not hard to test it on your own by the dummies. Here is a link to help out too.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?339781-High-Vizier-Set-BIS-Next-Patch
This is a great thread, you have provoked some interesting debate, and your original post is really nice, too. It's def. one that I point people to when they're having l2CW woes and ask for help, as it's a fairly reliable way to get someone on the right track with PvE. Thanks for that, you have saved a lot of explaining, and a certain amount of testing spadework too.
(..and *cough* it's nice to get some approximate info on what to do on some boss fights. When you don't know at first it can leave you open to a lot of attitude and terrible advice from other players who tell you total nonsense- with an air of absolute authority. Really nice section..)
Would you consider consolidating some of the other good stuff in this thread, and adding some remarks to the OP about character stats (wis/int/cha etc.), and their weightings, as well as priorities and rough ballpark figures as minimum for stats like crit, def etc.? Where there seem to be soft caps too, it might be worth mentioning briefly that "after X, this stat seems to decline in value". I'm not asking for any new annoying spreadsheet warrior stuff, just updating the first post with some of the useful tidbits in the rest of the thread. Even some rough guidelines will answer a lot of the common questions that folks have, and adding it to the first post would be really handy.
Edit:
Yeah, I know, you claim it isn't a guide, but you've more or less written one now, anyway- only without all the waffle that you usually get. What it covers is what people really want to know, how not to suck when they start setting themselves up for higher-end dungeons. Let's face it, a "levelling guide" is hardly necessary anyway, you can pretty much get to 60 by rolling your face on the keyboard. The levelling content is pretty and fun, but it's hardly challenging.
I've been following this thread and have been trying out this spec. So far its a great change for me and I'm loving it! I'm still semi new to the CW scene and wanted to ask (probably a dumb) question. Last night I tried out swapping out frozen terrain and COI so frozen terrain is in my master spot. It allowed me to range more and drop the ice on the tank when he rushes forward to engage and much quicker too since you can run along with the target circle not placed yet then drop it on the spot when needed then follow up with a coi immediately. I did notice that my dps went down, and Im thinking that Im losing chill stacks this way too, however it was super nice to range a bit more and have more of a birds eye view of the battle. Any thoughts on a way to make this viable? Thanks!
Also for anyone who doesn't know...this command in game /gfxsetdefaultfov 82 will widen your field of view/set your camera distance farther away from your toon. the sides fishbowl a bit but still, totally worth it.
I've also wished for a way to do this, tabbed Icy is just awesome to use. However, remember you also want to be using Steal Time and Shield Pop which cannot do this, so what I figured is I might as well have all my areas follow the same positioning, if those two are centered around me then it's not really a big deal to have Icy be as well
Just did a run on mad dragon with a pug. We got one shot in then healer left (bastage). Like I said Im still new to NW and CW so here are a couple questions......because when asked for a strat for the final boss all we got was "standard dragon rules apply", which is great if you know what the standard rules are lmao. I've been told to prioritize adds then spawners....all well and good but last couple groups were doing that and nothing else. 20 min fight with barely any dps on the boss. Do the magus spawns stack up or only repop when killed? Also, Iv's seen a lot of people running willy nilly dodging cones and aoes etc. Would it not make more sense to cluster in the middle where the cleric has a chance to heal peeps and we can benefit from cc and buffs etc, strafing around the dragon as it turns to stay on its *** and teleport jousting the red circles, which would be concentrated in one area instead of all over the damned place? if the magus don't keep coming till killed, just let all adds come to us to aoe down while dpsing the dragon?
Probrably the wrong thread for this and I apologize, just wondering if its a viable strat or is there something Im not seeing.
Magus will keep spawning from the front of the room (slightly leftside near the door) and the very back of the room (slightly rightside). So, they stack up. This combined with their aoe is pretty much the only priority in the entire fight.
Once your tank, or closest equivalent, realises how ridiculously tankable the Mad Dragon is, like in most MMOs you will want to tank the dragon against a wall to eliminate almost all the damage the dragon creates into the center of the room. The right wall or left wall are best due to the Magus spawn. You want to keep the Magus and their aoe as far away as possible from the tank since that's pretty much the only thing that can kill him.
Extra adds spawn at I believe 60% and 30%. The first set of extras are just a bunch of melee with Erinyes healers. The second bunch are the same but also contain the "Pit Fiend" aka. Shocktroop Devil. There are a couple of ways to do it, but basically the only consistently survivable way I have found for any PuG to get past the 30% adds is to tell them to focus on only the Magus then the Pit Fiend. Slightly more pro players, especially rogues, can drag the Fiend away, directing its aoe away from the center of the dungeon and nuke it by themselves (this is much easier post-patch due to the Cleric threat fix).
So, once you take all the above into account, you quickly realise that Mad Dragon = Magus. That's it.
If you get any spare time mopping up all those adds, including any imps left on your healer which can overwhelm them or use up all their potions surprisingly fast, then you DPS the boss instead. Pretty much the only persons who are dps'ing the boss all the time/regularly are the tank and the healer to keep up healing for the tank or a debuff on the boss.
This is why, regardless of what you do, it is always a long fight. However, if you do it by pinpointing and removing the sources of all that incoming damage, its always a sure thing. Slow, but steady is the way for that fight.
The main problem with the fight, is that everyone has to realise what they are doing but most importantly the skill of the healer has to be quite high (remember this is T1 and it may even be their first ever dungeon). The healer should keep a healing circle NOT at the tank's feet, who does not need such excessive healing and damage resist, but at the current Magus being focused which will also have spawned some painful imps and aoe. If everything is going well, a healer will not be moving much from the center of the room, just shifting from front to back a little bit to place a healing circle at each new Magus being focussed.
As for CW, anything that stops the Magus casting and kills them fast is a good spell, e.g. Entangling or Chill Strike. Probably want RoE for the boss as well if you are confident in controlling the extra add waves. Of course, Steal Time is a staple here too for multiple reasons.
For Mad Dragon you want 1 person to get aggro of the dragon pull it to the far left side of the room and stay on it the entire fight. Initially no one else dps the boss. The remaining 4 stay by the healer and take care of the adds. Yes the Magus will accumulate if you don't kill them. A cw or gwf takes care of the bats quickly. Even though they are weaklings, they still hurt. After adds are cleared everyone else can dps the boss until more adds spawn and repeat the cycle. It is important for someone to peel any trash off of the one tanking the dragon, preferably someone with range. When the first big wave of adds spawn only the trash handling 4 stay inside the astral shield, while cw gathers all adds. This is the easy phase. The second and final big wave spawn will include the healers. The 4 party members need to focus on 1 healer at a time and burst them down quickly. Once that's done, the rest is easy.
lol
Have you ever tried deflection for CW? what are your thoughts about that stat? since when I stack lifesteal it isnt much viable in pvp situations, dont wanna waste lifesteal slots on defense tab for equips, maybe on companion its better
It is definitely not easy doing CN Draco with 1 CW. If you must, you need a GF to go gather Red Mages for you and push them towards you. Then have him be around you and the healer grabbing aggro while you try to stay away from AoEs and Cleaves. Still, if you are not perfect on every punt, you will be in trouble because of the long CD on Shield now. If you have very high recovery, then have the GF also slot the AP buff encounter. That way you can replace Entangling Force in Mastery and use Repel instead.
The Lifesteal setup is definitely not intended for PvP. I think the best mitigation for a CW in PvP is Repel. Even if you manage to stack Deflection, you're still a squishy class. Look at TRs, they have deflection but you can still melt them away. A properly timed Repel, can buy you a good 3-4 seconds of mitigation. In that case it would be wiser to just stack HP. But in all honestly, I never attempted to stack Deflection on the CW. So this is just an opinion.
Any idea why?
I was saving up and noticed a 50% drop! Glad I didn't buy the gloves and slippers yesterday!
1. tank takes the green lizard to the left wall and keeps it there
2. dps stays more or less on the middle and has 2 tasks - burning down the mages as they appear (always pop at 'top' and 'bottom' relative to tank's position) as well as clearing out the imps so cleric doesn't have to worry and dpsing the boss in between the mages
3. you need to burn the mages because of their attack which puts a circle on the ground ad if you get hit it throws you up and does nasty damage - if that happens to the tank you're in trouble.
So you're basically switching between ads and boss. How fast the fight goes depends on how much dps the group has and how on the ball in regard to ads it is.
Same reason Greater Tenebrous went up in price after its nerf? Sometimes market prices are just a function of supply and demand I guess.
How do you keep vizier stack up on the buff? It seems the rotation COI and ice ray doesnt give any, while steal time gives 1 regardless of mobs hit, and shield gives 3 buff
Sometimes you can't keep 3 stacks up but that's perfectly fine .