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T2 Epic Dungeons: Not Worth It?
degraafination
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
So, after running many epic dungeons (mainly T2), with both PUGs and guild members, I'm starting to think that they may not be worth the hassle. Most of the time one of these scenarios play out...
1) PUGs drop or someone needs to leave.
2) Difficulty recruiting (mainly DCs).
3) Connection/Log On issues resulting in one perhaps being ported back to the start of the dungeon.
4) Burning through potions and injury kits (which cost a lot of coin at 60).
5) Frustration at being unable to defeat the end boss.
6) Dungeons sometimes taking 2-3 hours or longer depending on recruitment time, deaths, starting/stopping, and breaks.
7) Not getting a desired item or items during the DD.
I think I'm going to focus on crafting, the AH, and PVP.
Thoughts?
1) PUGs drop or someone needs to leave.
2) Difficulty recruiting (mainly DCs).
3) Connection/Log On issues resulting in one perhaps being ported back to the start of the dungeon.
4) Burning through potions and injury kits (which cost a lot of coin at 60).
5) Frustration at being unable to defeat the end boss.
6) Dungeons sometimes taking 2-3 hours or longer depending on recruitment time, deaths, starting/stopping, and breaks.
7) Not getting a desired item or items during the DD.
I think I'm going to focus on crafting, the AH, and PVP.
Thoughts?
Post edited by degraafination on
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Comments
Personally, I take it easy, do foundry quests and professions and start levelling an alt.
And almost all of the bosses seem to be the same. Every boss just spawns a tons of adds, and you have either one person kite them all, or a CW try to Singularity and toss them off a cliff. It's really not very much fun at all. Dungeon encounters should be different than just every other encounter in the game, IE killing a huge group of mobs. Right now, I guess the bosses have some special moves, but I personally never see them as a CW, because my entire experience is casting EF and Shield to build AP, Singularity, explode things off a cliff and repeat.
They're just not very fun encounters...and almost every single wipe is caused by being overwhelmed with adds, NOT because of the boss mechanics. Again...they're just not fun to do.
And the part that's getting frustrating is we're struggling to get the final boss down in a few of the dungeons, simply because we keep getting plowed over by adds, and our guild refuses to use bugs or exploits to bypass that part. We want to do the encounters the "correct" way, but we don't even know what that is, given every encounter is just a big boss with 5 dozen adds. And my guildmates and I, we're not the most super-leet players ever, but we're good to great MMO players. We play together, we coordinate on voice chat, we SHOULD be able to get these encounters down, particularly after wiping a few times to learn the "mechanics"...but again, unless you call dealing with dozens of adds in EVERY encounter "mechanics" there's just nothing to learn.
I can't imagine random groups are having much success here, much less groups that actually need to gear up in these instances, and don't already overgear them via buying everything on the AH.
Honestly, I'm hoping they add in the Ranger or Warlock soon, so I'll have another alt to play while they go back and re-tune the dungeons.
I hit 60 on my cleric last monday. I spent the next week running T1 dungeons, skirmish events, foundry dailys and daily dungeons..all to farm AD to purchase me gear off the AH and at the hopes of a few drops from these dungeons.
So now that I have a mix of T1/T2 gear (9.3 gs), I can head into T2 and consider it "end game". I know there are 3 or 4 dungeons that will be pretty difficult. So if I want "endgame" in neverwinter, I'll be doing that. Otherwise the other endgame is Gauntlgrym and the verdict is still out on that one. We'll see how that one is.
Other than that, are T2 epics worth it? Eh. Theres nothing else to test your gear and meddle in the game except CN and hopefully Gauntlgrym...So one would say, whats the point of getting uber gear if you don't have a use for it? If there isnt a Tier 3 dungeon out there, or a raid to put that gear to use?
That's the mentality that Ive always had with gear grind games. Is there content out there(higher in difficulty or tier) to put my gear to use / to test my gear and my meddle. If there isn't, or isnt very much of it...eh then theres no real reason. I then level alts (like I am now) and wait and see.
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My opinions are my own, and do not represent those of Perfect World Entertainment, or Cryptic Studios
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Here is the option as I see it at this time: Spend a bunch of real money buying Zen and Exchange it for Astral Diamonds. Gear up to the max by spending all your Diamonds at the auction house. If you play solo like me, join a pug for your favorite dungeon and then quit after the first wipe of final boss.
At least this way you don't have to worry about the loot because you own it already and you had the fun of all that stuff that leads up to the final boss. The problem here of course if that you might end up spending a couple hundred dollars. Maybe that was the plan by PWE all along????
Of course you can also find a "pro" guild that "somehow" got all geared up within one week after beta and play with them.
I have watched the streams of some of these groups who "finally" clear a T2 or CN boss, and they dont seem very satisfied afterwards. Its more a feeling of relief that its finally over. Thats not how gaming is suppose to feel.
I am not asking that they make T2 dungeon end boss easier. Just gives us a different mechanic on some of them so we have a chance. I am relegated to playing Throne Of Idris over and over again if I truly want to finish a somewhat challenging dungeon(its not even Tier2). At least in that one, one person can pull a small group of mobs several times so we can finish it.
Not worth it after that. It costs way to much in pots and kits.
When each dungeon costs between 3-6 gold to run then no it is not worth it.
Additionally, T2 delves are almost prohibitively expensive from a GOLD standpoint, of all things. Between potions and injury kits, I'm spending significantly more in gold than I am taking in. I refuse to farm random content just so I can have enough gold to afford potions and injury kits. The idea is ridiculous, to be honest, especially with all the ADs I have sitting around in my bank right now. If I stop running T2 dungeons at any point, it's going to be because I run out of gold.
Right now, there are two things Cryptic is doing which I find encouraging. First is Gauntylgrym. It sounds unique and interesting, and I'm certainly willing to give it a try to see if it's fun. I'm hoping it will be, and no matter what it will certainly be a welcome change of pace. Second is the alchemy profession. It will be nice to be able to make my own potions in the future, although I am anticipating that given Cryptic's inability/unwillingness to make professions actually USEFUL in any kind of timely manner it'll likely take me a month or more to get to the point where I can make level 60 healing potions (unless I spend money on leveling it- which I have no plans to do at the moment).
I'll give Cryptic credit, they are trying to create a successful MMO that doesn't feel -too- much like a WoW rehash. The combat system is different enough to stand out, and the f2p model they espouse seems successful from my standpoint. Yes, most of what they are doing has been done in some other MMO, but never quite in this combination or in quite this fashion. When you're entering new territory like they are, there's a lot of work that needs to be done to smooth out all the rough bumps. I've put some money in to support them to this point, and for now we'll see where they go. If I like what they do, they'll continue to receive financial support from me. And if not, they won't. That is capitalism at it's finest.
And maybe Cryptic just doesn't realize how powerful the adds really are. In most T2s, a single add will do 4-6k damage a swing to me, which means if I get hit once by 3-4 adds, I'm dead...and in fights where you're literally fighting 30 adds, it's just an exercise in frustration. In Champions Online, the minions and lesser adds were pretty much trivial, and just served as fodder.
In Neverwinter, the adds are merciless killing machines.
I'm not asking for easy-mode or for Cryptic to dumb things down...I'm just asking for actual boss fights with actual mechanics. Because right now, everything is the exact same (95% of the battle is dealing with an overwhelming amount of adds) not fun method.
Boss fights are actually one Add with a lot of HP and weak attacks, who summons dozens of hard hitting annoying "bosses".
I stopped running them a while back because:
1. No reward, plenty of cost.
2. Leader kicking people (Idiots at Cryptic, seriously stupid, laughable).
3. Boss fights are as fun as doing taxes.
4. Exploits, shotcuts etc or get kicked.
5. Far, far too much taking out the trash. Chore, plain and simple, complete disrespect for my time, wasted taking out the garbage.
Logging in to pray each day is worth what I pay in subscription though.
True. Which sucks for those of us who think content should be done as intended, not exploited.
Have you even TRIED Temple of the Spider? I get the feeling everyone who complains about lack of boss mechanics just gave up after they failed their first T2 dungeon.
Hahahaha. You have no clue pal.
Nice strawman though. "..all my GF needs to do is taunt the boss then stand still", yeah, that's what people asked for, good thing you're here to argue against that silly request which has been made!
Can you link to some of these videos. If your guild is "easily" clearing all these, I'd love to take a look.
And I'm not trolling, being serious here. Because we tried Temple of the Spider again last night, and hit a brick wall with the last boss. We got her into Drider mode once, but almost every other attempt (of about 12) had us getting obliterated by the adds pretty quickly.
And you guys are good, that's great. But I watched a few minutes of 4-5 boss fights, and they almost all played out exactly the same.
Either your DC gathers and kites the mobs, or you guys gather them all up and knock them off the edge or AOE them. Then it's back to the boss for a few seconds, and then repeat.
You're looking at 15-20 minute boss fights where 95% of the fight is spent dealing with adds...and it's the exact same thing on all the fights. That's what I have an issue with.
Sure, the scenery changes, and the visuals for the boss splats change, but every single fight is essentially the same core mechanic.
Deal with overwhelming number of adds, then poke the boss a few times, then back to adds. Any mechanic the actual boss adds is fairly inconsequential.
There's no question it's the same mechanic repeated over and over, that's for sure. Like I said I'm hoping for better from GG, but we'll see how it goes.
Yeah the real "tank" job in this game would be considered off-tank in most others. I play TR and GF equally and most bosses can be solo'd or duo'd by TRs simply dodging the large AOEs and obvious attacks. GF and others just handle the giant army of mind numbing mobs.....
Every time I do it I still shake my head. 3/5 or 4/5 party members ignoring boss and dealing with waves of trash mobs. Not difficult, just boring.
Thx for the advice, I will suggest it in my next dungeon run
In the meantime I'm sticking to crafting, PVP and flipping good buys in the AH when and if they come. Still fun. T2s seems like such a waste to me.
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
I am in a good guild with good players. Please refer to my very first post as to why the entire T2 DD experience can take a long time and be very costly.
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
If you're good at the AH game and if you enjoy it , then go for it .
I know people in other MMOs who only play to trade and nothing else which I find disturbing but hey you can't tell anyone how to have fun right ?
Anyone else seen this happen?
edit: this happen on pirate king, frozen heart and spellplague DD
Really you think T2 is hard. It is fairly easy when you look at many mmos out there. Stick to T1 if you think they are too hard. If you know the game you can burn through most of them in 20 mins with no deaths.
It should be a challenge and have a skill level to be able to do it. Dont kill the game because the unskilled cant figure out the game.
Go do the **** stuff if you cant handle the real content. I am just glad we dont need 20 to 40 to enjoy end game.