I know right, considering DPS Guardian Fighters can 2hit any rogue if they are good, and Mages just CC us to hell...
Tripwire
Level 60 TR
Dragon Shard
0
prowesssssMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 31Arc User
edited May 2013
I may only be in the 40-49 division... but I'm a wizard and I've consistently been able to defeat 2 opponents in a "fair" fight. One match, I killed 2 other wizards, they respawned, came back, and I killed them again. I fancy myself an exceptionally good player with pretty good gear.. BUT, I have lost in 1v1 to just about every class.
As a career-PVPist, having played just about every game with PvP, I'm fundamentally against nerfs. Always. No nerfs will ever get my stamp of approval simply because some classes are harder to play but yield greater results for exceptionally good players.. Some classes attract more exceptionally good players... There needs to be hard empirical evidence before you'll ever get me to approve a nerf. Some classes have more tools than others and some players know how to use the tools more effectively.
That all said, while nerfs should be taken off the table for now (as nerfing is the #1 reason i've left games in the past. Take away my class' cool functionality and I put my wallet away), I wouldn't be opposed to more tools. Say, if GFs were able to block at 50% effectiveness while CC'd... or if GWFs could invest in stun/snare procs (I'm thinking a passive power that gives 1/2/5% chance to snare for 3 seconds and another passive power that gives 1/2/5% chance to stun for .2 second).. those two changes would give the two classes who have the most trouble dealing with being kited some valuable tools..
TLDR
NO NERFS FOR STRONG CLASSES, EVER. Instead, buff those who have more trouble.
edit: I wouldn't consider the addition of diminishing returns as a nerf.. As it would apply to any and all classes. But DR should be added with extreme discretion as it has a huge potential to break the game.
0
prowesssssMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 31Arc User
edited May 2013
A lot of people seem to miss something critical when PvPing...
There is a significant amount of TWITCH in PvP. For many of us, THAT'S AN EXTREMELY DESIRABLE PART OF THE GAME. But many of you are connecting from Malaysia or Botswana or the United Arab Emigrates... YOU WILL GET BAD LAG CONNECTING TO AMERICAN SERVERS.
I consistently get 60-100 MS ping... maybe something that gives me a significant advantage in PvP (sorry that I live in new-nerd-mecca and our internet reaches both east and west coasts of the USA in less than 100MS)
When servers for your region open up, you'll likely see better performance in PvP.. until then, sorry, 200+ MS is a long time.
0
tripwiredMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 5Arc User
edited May 2013
The things I think should be changed are:
- Diminishing Returns on Crowd Control Effects
- Rogues need to not be able to be stunned when entering stealth or when they take damage in stealth, need it to not deplete the stealth.
- Losing AP from a failed Ult needs to be fixed as well(Happens for CW and TR a lot not sure about others).
- General Skill hit-boxes, cast times and durations for all classes.
- Guardian Fighters need to have less tank if they go full DPS as they hit way to hard for much they can tank at the moment, but if they got full tank they don't do enough DPS to draw aggro and get ignored.
- CW's having 3Dashs I think is 1 to many considering how much CC they have they can kite every class but Guardian Fighter way to easy.
I'm sorry but if you let a rogue approach you and don't do anything about it you deserve to die.
Rogue's are easily neutralized if you know what your doing, dodge 1 critical attack and the rogue goes off running to reset his cooldowns. Of course this requires awareness, something a lot of people severely lack...
Also the rogue daily doesn't insta-kill a full health target, the skill's damage is based on how much health the target is missing. So a successful "assassination" requires a correct approach, an opener that hit's hard enough and the uninterrupted daily to finish...
Bull. ****.
I was crit for 23k while at full health and instantly died. You tell me how to "dodge" that; go ahead. There was no "fight" and your idea that this was somehow preventable is laughably stupid of an excuse for allowing a ridiculous ability to keep existing.
Or do you really think I should have wasted my stamina attempting to randomly dodge an unseen target in the hopes that I luck out with a 1/100 chance it happens during the actual attack? Please.
The rogue/CW dailies do need nerfs, even the stupid aegis blue circle clerics have need some balancing. The execution strike or whatever its called that deals bonus damage based on missing health shouldn't be exceeding like 300% by the time someone is half health. CWs obviously need some CC rework, I think giving them -50% regen on blink would help, since nothing is worse then finally getting there and being mid way in a encounter animation and they just blink away getting a 'Dodge' when you started the attack before they even did the blink. I mean my GWF only has a stupid sprint which doesn't 'dodge' anything and can be hit while doing it, and will be hit even if i see an attack animation and run behind someone before the animation completes.
They need to really rework dps if they're serious about putting in a 20v20 since just in a 5v5 at cap a group of CW/rogues can rip through someone in like 10sec in a 20v20 it would be a wonder you living beyond a couple seconds if you got focus'd.
Getting back to CC I'd be in a favor of DR for stuns, roots(including the choke hold thing), obviously a knockdown is a different matter. Also have that little wind gust that pushes you back, needs a distance halved or have a max distance meaning it can't push you farther then x meters from the caster, its annoying for them to already be 20 feet away and then use it to push you back the full distance of the skill of like 50 feet.
0
prowesssssMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 31Arc User
The things I think should be changed are:
- Diminishing Returns on Crowd Control Effects
- Rogues need to not be able to be stunned when entering stealth or when they take damage in stealth, need it to not deplete the stealth.
- Losing AP from a failed Ult needs to be fixed as well(Happens for CW and TR a lot not sure about others).
- General Skill hit-boxes, cast times and durations for all classes.
- Guardian Fighters need to have less tank if they go full DPS as they hit way to hard for much they can tank at the moment, but if they got full tank they don't do enough DPS to draw aggro and get ignored.
- CW's having 3Dashs I think is 1 to many considering how much CC they have they can kite every class but Guardian Fighter way to easy.
That's all I have at the moment.
-DR i can get behind to the extent that it would not effect the wizard's initial burst of CC
-Rogues are not affected by CC abilities when entering stealth as long as they are not trying to enter stealth while someone's got their reticule on them. You getting hit as you're stealthing is not an indication that there's something wrong with the mechanic but rather it is an indication that you are doing it wrong. that said, stealth should last a bit longer so you have more time to work.
-As a wizard, I have a few feats/powers that allow for generous AP.. misfires should be as punishing as possible.
-is there a point here?
-I don't think they need less of anything
-More tools for dealing with kiting should be implemented but there's a very good reason CWs have 3 dashes
0
prowesssssMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 31Arc User
I was crit for 23k while at full health and instantly died. You tell me how to "dodge" that; go ahead. There was no "fight" and your idea that this was somehow preventable is laughably stupid of an excuse for allowing a ridiculous ability to keep existing.
Or do you really think I should have wasted my stamina attempting to randomly dodge an unseen target in the hopes that I luck out with a 1/100 chance it happens during the actual attack? Please.
Oh yes... that's what I expect you to do... When I see a rogue enter stealth, do I A. stand there like an idiot waiting to get whopped or B. become the most annoyingly elusive target as possible? The rogues stealth lasts a very short time and if you see a rogue enter stealth you have a ridiculously good chance at avoiding his sneak attack.
0
prowesssssMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 31Arc User
The rogue/CW dailies do need nerfs, even the stupid aegis blue circle clerics have need some balancing. The execution strike or whatever its called that deals bonus damage based on missing health shouldn't be exceeding like 300% by the time someone is half health. CWs obviously need some CC rework, I think giving them -50% regen on blink would help, since nothing is worse then finally getting there and being mid way in a encounter animation and they just blink away getting a 'Dodge' when you started the attack before they even did the blink. I mean my GWF only has a stupid sprint which doesn't 'dodge' anything and can be hit while doing it, and will be hit even if i see an attack animation and run behind someone before the animation completes.
They need to really rework dps if they're serious about putting in a 20v20 since just in a 5v5 at cap a group of CW/rogues can rip through someone in like 10sec in a 20v20 it would be a wonder you living beyond a couple seconds if you got focus'd.
Getting back to CC I'd be in a favor of DR for stuns, roots(including the choke hold thing), obviously a knockdown is a different matter. Also have that little wind gust that pushes you back, needs a distance halved or have a max distance meaning it can't push you farther then x meters from the caster, its annoying for them to already be 20 feet away and then use it to push you back the full distance of the skill of like 50 feet.
What if GWFs had a 20% chance to ignore CC effects while sprinting? they would still take damage but would have a chance to avoid CC?
Getting focused by any more than 2 players should pretty much destroy anyone but a skilled GF in a matter of seconds... As a CW, I've often seen people drop in less than 5 seconds when I've got a rogue buddy... When you get hit by a ray of enfeeble and then get choked, you expect to live through a rogue's burst damage?
The changes I want to see, let GFs have partial block ability while CCd and give GWFs a bit of CC mitigation while sprinting.
0
tripwiredMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 5Arc User
-DR i can get behind to the extent that it would not effect the wizard's initial burst of CC
-Rogues are not affected by CC abilities when entering stealth as long as they are not trying to enter stealth while someone's got their reticule on them. You getting hit as you're stealthing is not an indication that there's something wrong with the mechanic but rather it is an indication that you are doing it wrong. that said, stealth should last a bit longer so you have more time to work.
-As a wizard, I have a few feats/powers that allow for generous AP.. misfires should be as punishing as possible.
-is there a point here?
-I don't think they need less of anything
-More tools for dealing with kiting should be implemented but there's a very good reason CWs have 3 dashes
No offense, but your feedback does not help this discussion since you don't know how end game PvP is as you're not level 60, this thread's title does say "PVP obervations from a level60" I understand you want to give your 2cents but this is not the thread for you.
first thing,
wizards have way too long cc's and the cooldown on choke is just ridiculous.
i cant take this game seriously when theres no diminishing returns.
secondly,
nerf rogue spike damage. i've seen rogues 1-shot people.
or make them extremelly squishy. as it is, their survivability is fine, while their damage is godlike
third,
cleric's shield is too powerful.
guardians are FINE.
GWF's damage is fine, they could use some love in defence.
also, remove mounts from PvP.
distances are way too short. and paid-mounts make a big difference.
PvP is for fun , if you don't have fun while PvPing just don't do it . As for completing the pvp daily you can lose 4 times and you got your daily done what is so hard to understand I just don't know .
I hope Cryptic won't make it too easy.. personally I think they should work on the matching system first and then see if we still have big balance issues..
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
0
testicol0Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
are u crazy?
tr is a killer... with the right combo they MUST kill quickly. but their defense is very low...
daily? every daily is very strong...
GWF, in pvp, is very strong, nerf they too? -_-
rosik less pls
0
tarsvetMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 10Arc User
edited June 2013
PvP seems more balanced than before, at L60 it is ALL about gear, your a new 60 vs a fully twinked out 60 in T2 best enchants etc you melt!!
Vs a few or an entire group you melt instantly..
There are some cheese builds that need minor tweeks, but a Gear score calculation needs to be added based on the highest GS your character has had, to stop lamers taking off gear then queueing then putting gear back on..
So atleast it tries to balance teams gear scores to give a slightly better fight.
Also premade groups of 4 or 5 possibly 3s also should be matched vs same sized premade groups
and if you leave a 15 min requeue timer should activate. If you DC you should be able to rejoin, if not a 15 min timer should trigger from DC to stop people exploiting.
Note that already having Crescendo mentioned in log is quite an achievement. The animation is so long that this daily will hit only if the target is already stunned/prone/lifted. In other terms, this daily is just for kill-stealing.
I have a Zen-shop ***** guildie GWF with all the expensive gear (Ancient Castle and so on) We teamed once, he was fighting, I was just wandering around from one base to another. I finished ahead of him.
English is not my first language.
0
testicol0Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Note that already having Crescendo mentioned in log is quite an achievement. The animation is so long that this daily will hit only if the target is already stunned/prone/lifted. In other terms, this daily is just for kill-stealing.
I have a Zen-shop ***** guildie GWF with all the expensive gear (Ancient Castle and so on) We teamed once, he was fighting, I was just wandering around from one base to another. I finished ahead of him.
all of GWS i found in this last days have played pvp very well with good scores... buy with zen doesn't mean win...
Comments
I know right, considering DPS Guardian Fighters can 2hit any rogue if they are good, and Mages just CC us to hell...
Level 60 TR
Dragon Shard
As a career-PVPist, having played just about every game with PvP, I'm fundamentally against nerfs. Always. No nerfs will ever get my stamp of approval simply because some classes are harder to play but yield greater results for exceptionally good players.. Some classes attract more exceptionally good players... There needs to be hard empirical evidence before you'll ever get me to approve a nerf. Some classes have more tools than others and some players know how to use the tools more effectively.
That all said, while nerfs should be taken off the table for now (as nerfing is the #1 reason i've left games in the past. Take away my class' cool functionality and I put my wallet away), I wouldn't be opposed to more tools. Say, if GFs were able to block at 50% effectiveness while CC'd... or if GWFs could invest in stun/snare procs (I'm thinking a passive power that gives 1/2/5% chance to snare for 3 seconds and another passive power that gives 1/2/5% chance to stun for .2 second).. those two changes would give the two classes who have the most trouble dealing with being kited some valuable tools..
TLDR
NO NERFS FOR STRONG CLASSES, EVER. Instead, buff those who have more trouble.
edit: I wouldn't consider the addition of diminishing returns as a nerf.. As it would apply to any and all classes. But DR should be added with extreme discretion as it has a huge potential to break the game.
There is a significant amount of TWITCH in PvP. For many of us, THAT'S AN EXTREMELY DESIRABLE PART OF THE GAME. But many of you are connecting from Malaysia or Botswana or the United Arab Emigrates... YOU WILL GET BAD LAG CONNECTING TO AMERICAN SERVERS.
I consistently get 60-100 MS ping... maybe something that gives me a significant advantage in PvP (sorry that I live in new-nerd-mecca and our internet reaches both east and west coasts of the USA in less than 100MS)
When servers for your region open up, you'll likely see better performance in PvP.. until then, sorry, 200+ MS is a long time.
- Diminishing Returns on Crowd Control Effects
- Rogues need to not be able to be stunned when entering stealth or when they take damage in stealth, need it to not deplete the stealth.
- Losing AP from a failed Ult needs to be fixed as well(Happens for CW and TR a lot not sure about others).
- General Skill hit-boxes, cast times and durations for all classes.
- Guardian Fighters need to have less tank if they go full DPS as they hit way to hard for much they can tank at the moment, but if they got full tank they don't do enough DPS to draw aggro and get ignored.
- CW's having 3Dashs I think is 1 to many considering how much CC they have they can kite every class but Guardian Fighter way to easy.
That's all I have at the moment.
Level 60 TR
Dragon Shard
Bull. ****.
I was crit for 23k while at full health and instantly died. You tell me how to "dodge" that; go ahead. There was no "fight" and your idea that this was somehow preventable is laughably stupid of an excuse for allowing a ridiculous ability to keep existing.
Or do you really think I should have wasted my stamina attempting to randomly dodge an unseen target in the hopes that I luck out with a 1/100 chance it happens during the actual attack? Please.
They need to really rework dps if they're serious about putting in a 20v20 since just in a 5v5 at cap a group of CW/rogues can rip through someone in like 10sec in a 20v20 it would be a wonder you living beyond a couple seconds if you got focus'd.
Getting back to CC I'd be in a favor of DR for stuns, roots(including the choke hold thing), obviously a knockdown is a different matter. Also have that little wind gust that pushes you back, needs a distance halved or have a max distance meaning it can't push you farther then x meters from the caster, its annoying for them to already be 20 feet away and then use it to push you back the full distance of the skill of like 50 feet.
-DR i can get behind to the extent that it would not effect the wizard's initial burst of CC
-Rogues are not affected by CC abilities when entering stealth as long as they are not trying to enter stealth while someone's got their reticule on them. You getting hit as you're stealthing is not an indication that there's something wrong with the mechanic but rather it is an indication that you are doing it wrong. that said, stealth should last a bit longer so you have more time to work.
-As a wizard, I have a few feats/powers that allow for generous AP.. misfires should be as punishing as possible.
-is there a point here?
-I don't think they need less of anything
-More tools for dealing with kiting should be implemented but there's a very good reason CWs have 3 dashes
Oh yes... that's what I expect you to do... When I see a rogue enter stealth, do I A. stand there like an idiot waiting to get whopped or B. become the most annoyingly elusive target as possible? The rogues stealth lasts a very short time and if you see a rogue enter stealth you have a ridiculously good chance at avoiding his sneak attack.
What if GWFs had a 20% chance to ignore CC effects while sprinting? they would still take damage but would have a chance to avoid CC?
Getting focused by any more than 2 players should pretty much destroy anyone but a skilled GF in a matter of seconds... As a CW, I've often seen people drop in less than 5 seconds when I've got a rogue buddy... When you get hit by a ray of enfeeble and then get choked, you expect to live through a rogue's burst damage?
The changes I want to see, let GFs have partial block ability while CCd and give GWFs a bit of CC mitigation while sprinting.
No offense, but your feedback does not help this discussion since you don't know how end game PvP is as you're not level 60, this thread's title does say "PVP obervations from a level60" I understand you want to give your 2cents but this is not the thread for you.
Level 60 TR
Dragon Shard
i'm a cleric.
here's what i think they should do:
first thing,
wizards have way too long cc's and the cooldown on choke is just ridiculous.
i cant take this game seriously when theres no diminishing returns.
secondly,
nerf rogue spike damage. i've seen rogues 1-shot people.
or make them extremelly squishy. as it is, their survivability is fine, while their damage is godlike
third,
cleric's shield is too powerful.
guardians are FINE.
GWF's damage is fine, they could use some love in defence.
also, remove mounts from PvP.
distances are way too short. and paid-mounts make a big difference.
tr is a killer... with the right combo they MUST kill quickly. but their defense is very low...
daily? every daily is very strong...
GWF, in pvp, is very strong, nerf they too? -_-
rosik less pls
Vs a few or an entire group you melt instantly..
There are some cheese builds that need minor tweeks, but a Gear score calculation needs to be added based on the highest GS your character has had, to stop lamers taking off gear then queueing then putting gear back on..
So atleast it tries to balance teams gear scores to give a slightly better fight.
Also premade groups of 4 or 5 possibly 3s also should be matched vs same sized premade groups
and if you leave a 15 min requeue timer should activate. If you DC you should be able to rejoin, if not a 15 min timer should trigger from DC to stop people exploiting.
From PvP log
Your Crescendo hits for 402
Note that already having Crescendo mentioned in log is quite an achievement. The animation is so long that this daily will hit only if the target is already stunned/prone/lifted. In other terms, this daily is just for kill-stealing.
I have a Zen-shop ***** guildie GWF with all the expensive gear (Ancient Castle and so on) We teamed once, he was fighting, I was just wandering around from one base to another. I finished ahead of him.
all of GWS i found in this last days have played pvp very well with good scores... buy with zen doesn't mean win...