Not being 60th, I can't offer insight at that level, but at "low" levels (20-40), pvp is a sick joke if you're not a ranged character. Melees get torn in half by wizards (and to a lesser degree by clerics) due to the inability to really close the distance effectively with them. You get close, they knock you away, lock you down, and destroy you before the crowd control(s) wear off. Without some way to break out of the CONSTANT crowd-controls being flung around, you're basically at the mercy of the CCers.
I can't count the number of times I've been completely locked down because two enemy wizards just focus-fire me. PvP should not require premade teams using voicechat and well-rehearsed strategy to be "fun".
But then, I've yet to run into a Cryptic game where they've really made pvp balanced or enjoyable at anything less than max level. And even then not so much.
Yea wizard CC shold have something like that: first time use in 20- 30 sec - full controll ( full time cc )
second time in 20 or 30 half of it. Wizard or to be fair all characters with powerfull and long time CC after "miss CC" (I mean after beat it to 0 sec ) just refresh or after 20 or 30 sec too. ( sorry for my english, this is clear? ) ;p
For people complaining about GWF being under powered lmao, they have op builds..i've seen some GWF move at the speed of ****ing light all over the battlefield (not saying they're hacking) but the agility they're showing suggests its well unbalanced. they tank like mofos dishing out massive damages and can move so quick when down to 25% they just run and leave you in your dust.
Anyhoo, no matter how much hope I have for the dev's to fix the pvp elements (on everyclass) I don't think it will happen. There will still be Amateurs relying on bugs, OP builds and unbalances to win. The combat mechanics of this game is quite refreshing and nice but I doubt PWE will care enough to cater to the serious pvpers out there.
A large bulk of the damage a control wizard is able to do, at least by my experience, is through Eye of the Storm. Auto crits for 8 seconds can burst down anyone except a supreme geared cleric or GF.
They don't need to have -everything- nerfed. They just need to have Eye of the Storm tweaked, if the damage is even an issue.
But honestly, if you take Eye of the Storm out of the equation, suddenly a rogue or GWF will trigger a little something that makes them immune to CC and decimate you.
I don't mind the GWF doing that. They've got the short stick in PvP, and being a CW slayer actually helps them. But rogues would be almost unstoppable without the burst to counter theirs.
I honestly don't mind PvP too much. I think most of the classes do their respective jobs very well. A balanced group that knows what they're doing will dominate because they know how to coordinate their class strengths. This is how group PvP should work.
Also, yeah, control can be a problem, when there's 2 or more control wizards controlling you. That's called teamwork. The problem is a CW can -burst- you down while controlling you.
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yushirokaneMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Hello, I have been PVPing for a while now since dinging level 60(I am a control wizard). There are some problems with PVP that I have so far, and I would like to share them with you, and Cryptic, to see everyone's opinions.
-Dailies do too much damage in PVP, especially rogues and control wizards. Please reduce their damage greatly inside of battlegrounds only or adjust them in some other way. When I pop my daily, I kill someone 100% to 0% in 2-3 seconds while they're CCed the entire duration. The same happens when another class pops their daily on me. I think it would be a more enjoyable experience if players weren't winning fights and killing each other so easily just because their action point bar is filled up.
- Rogues and Control Wizards both do far too much damage. I think overall damage should be reduced somewhere around 50-75% inside of battlegrounds only. I feel that longer prolonged fights and less twitchy combat that ends in 2-3 attacks would be more enjoyable for everyone playing.
- There is too much CC, and no DR's. Please add DR's to CC's when used on other players. Full - > half -> immune for 15 seconds would be a good change. Most people don't like not being able to control their character for extended periods of time, we want to play and kill other players afterall!
- Smoke bomb is too powerful for having an 18 second cooldown. Please increase the cooldown in battlegrounds only, I'm thinking somewhere between 1-2 mins for how powerful the ability is.
- Force chokes cooldown is too low for how strong it is. Please increase it's cooldown inside battlegrounds only. 30-40 second cooldown inside of battlegrounds would probably be a very good change, as well as making it not benefit from arcane mastery stacks but increasing it's base duration in PVP.
- Ability to kick AFKers. This is a no brainer, I'm sure one is already in the works.
- Clerics damage reduction shields and healing is a lot. If damage is reduced(and I strongly think damage needs to be reduced) then clerics heals and damage reduction shields would need to be nerfed in battlegrounds only as well. Maybe a ~50% nerf? I'm not sure, stacking of multiple cleric shields also should probably go away in both PVE and PVP.
- Latency, sometimes I will be ~30 yards away from a GFW and his attacks will still land on me. Very annoying to deal with melee abilities that hit you from very far away.
- Res timers are too short, too easy to "res zerg" take back nodes or defend, or reinforce. I believe a 20-30 sec res timer should be added.
These are my observations so far, and my suggested solutions to things I see making PVP less fun than it could be. This game has really fun classes and combat, and I just want to enjoy some PVP action duking it out against other players in an enjoyable environment. My biggest problem that makes the game less fun for me right now is the CC, dailies damage, and rogue/CW(and overall damage in general really) damage though.
Totally agree with every point the opsays, I am a 60 Gwf that has been pvping a lot, and it was way more enjoyable at lower elvels than at lvl60 is.
Some dmg and heal reductions should be applied, anyone taht doesnt see this is just a TR orCW that loves to one shoot ppl with 1 skill, which is no fun for anyone except him.
Im not asking for any characer nerfs, just make pvp as good as it was at lower levels, and no forme tr were not op lower levels, his main source of damage is so easy to dodge, they jump on the air before hit you just dodge in that moment.
Lol... Just cause ONE Person got destroyed by a rogue, means that everything should change, right?
Eh, i don't think it for that reason, i've played CW the most, but started a rogue, and they are pretty OP. They have great damage, great damage avoidance, and a bunch of ways to control too, especially in PvP. (can't use skills or even dodge, usually means quick death) I haven't hit 60 yet, but i kill things way faster on the rogue, take less damage, get WAY less aggro and it just "feels" much easier. I get that they are strikers, and should do more damage, but they should also not have it so great with all the other powers either.
No CW/TR has ever killed me in 2-3 shots but I have killed them in 2 and I'm a GF playing from Australia with constant 300ms. You are dying in 2 shots because you spec all power and want to do so to the other people too. There are DR specs on a CW and TR which avoids and reduces damage. If you're not using them when they're provided, don't ***** about it. Other than afkers I don't see a problem in pvp. Baddies are just bad.
no you havent i have tested my GF with 6.8k power and it takes me a rotation to kill someone your talking rubbish before you throw the "your bad card" hmmm bad is 19 kills in a match ?
yes i have tried knights challenge leave classes the same buff GF attack
My observations as a new level 21 GWF is the following. As a melee there's just no point, I could make a character designed souly for pvp with increased movement speed and recovery but that would greatly hinder the PvE side because movement and recovery are usless in PvE and just take away from power and crit. You can't have a good PvE while simultaneously having a solid PvP at least as a GWF.
What I would like to see is why can't you have more then one build similar to the soul system in Rift? Where I can PvP and PvE with my most invested character simply by having a secondary build option.
What is the point of this PvP if we nerf CCs even more? There are no tactics without CC. If we add DR and nerf damage, all you are left with is a left-click damage race where the team with the better gears score always winning.
I said control wizard is doing too much damage and needs a CC, damage, and daily nerf. I play a control wizard.
People keep bringing up "organized teams" - I don't think anyone will care enough about PVP in this game to run "organized groups", especially when you gain almost as much glory from losing as winning, and the grind days less than 5 days max of casually playing.
The game shouldn't ONLY be balanced for "organized teams", there isn't even a ladder, a organized team format, or any competitive aspects at all in this games PVP. It is purely a random 5vs5 skirmish fight that you CAN queue with others, but nothing encourages you to make your team and climb a ladder or get a high rank, or anything. I haven't met a single organized team in my entire time PVPing at level60, so they are very rare.
PVP, especially when you can join as solo, duo, or a full team, should be fun for all types. Not just fun for organized teams only, if it's only intended for organized teams, you should not be able to queue without 4 others, and there should be ladders, rankings, and other cool stuff that show it's a competitive team based game(like DOTA2/LOL/ETC). Is the game fun if you run 5vs5 comps? Maybe, cool if it is, but since 99.99% of people will be running solo or duo with a buddy, that game type should be fun too.
Funny my guild does premade PVPs literally all day.
And we faceroll the entire server.
I think you underestimate gamers. If people run premade dungeons, why wouldnt they run premade pvp?
Not everyone likes to play with idiots who cant coordinate attacks..
I said control wizard is doing too much damage and needs a CC, damage, and daily nerf. I play a control wizard.
People keep bringing up "organized teams" - I don't think anyone will care enough about PVP in this game to run "organized groups", especially when you gain almost as much glory from losing as winning, and the grind days less than 5 days max of casually playing.
The game shouldn't ONLY be balanced for "organized teams", there isn't even a ladder, a organized team format, or any competitive aspects at all in this games PVP. It is purely a random 5vs5 skirmish fight that you CAN queue with others, but nothing encourages you to make your team and climb a ladder or get a high rank, or anything. I haven't met a single organized team in my entire time PVPing at level60, so they are very rare.
PVP, especially when you can join as solo, duo, or a full team, should be fun for all types. Not just fun for organized teams only, if it's only intended for organized teams, you should not be able to queue without 4 others, and there should be ladders, rankings, and other cool stuff that show it's a competitive team based game(like DOTA2/LOL/ETC). Is the game fun if you run 5vs5 comps? Maybe, cool if it is, but since 99.99% of people will be running solo or duo with a buddy, that game type should be fun too.
Watch twitch. Or get with a pvp guild. We run pre-mades all the time. And yea organized 5 v 5 is really fun. There is no bad class right now. Only bad players. PvP in this game punishes people who don't play their class well, mistakes get you killed. I love the pvp so far in this game.
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pokersmith1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited May 2013
All I know is, 3 CWs force-choking me in a row and my little TR is dead, no matter what. Not fun. LOL
Elite Defense Starfleet Elite Defense Stovokor
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mistatosMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 28Arc User
edited May 2013
They need to make an Only GWF game mode. It would make me stay with this game.
There is nothing at all "fun" or "balanced" about *any* class instantly crit-killing me by hitting me for 115% of my *entire* health pool using a single attack.
Here was the fight:
Rogue approaches.
I am dead.
Joy.
There is nothing fun about being killed while the entire length of the "fight" I am dazed, unable to cast, attack, or even dodge. Where is the DR? Where is the CC breaker?
The ability for classes to both CC and emit damage is freakishly insane.
By that same token, when a class *can't* do that, it snaps to the complete opposite of becoming painfully boring thanks to clerics (of which I am one). I had a match where myself and a GF fought another cleric and a GF at a point. After about 5 minutes we both just stopped attacking after mentioning in /say how boring it was getting.
Outgoing damage, CC, AND healing done all need serious pvp nerfs. I think the two fighters are fairly close to what their roles should be: the GF can be highly annoying thanks to all the knocking around (which still needs DR applied to it, becuase multiples of these guys makes anything trainwrecked), GWF can do some respectable damage , but are simply being outshone by the retardedly high damage of the CW and TR, as well as being gimped when forced to try to kill anything cleric-protected
There is nothing at all "fun" or "balanced" about *any* class instantly crit-killing me by hitting me for 115% of my *entire* health pool using a single attack.
Here was the fight:
Rogue approaches.
I am dead.
Joy.
There is nothing fun about being killed while the entire length of the "fight" I am dazed, unable to cast, attack, or even dodge. Where is the DR? Where is the CC breaker?
The ability for classes to both CC and emit damage is freakishly insane.
By that same token, when a class *can't* do that, it snaps to the complete opposite of becoming painfully boring thanks to clerics (of which I am one). I had a match where myself and a GF fought another cleric and a GF at a point. After about 5 minutes we both just stopped attacking after mentioning in /say how boring it was getting.
Outgoing damage, CC, AND healing done all need serious pvp nerfs. I think the two fighters are fairly close to what their roles should be: the GF can be highly annoying thanks to all the knocking around (which still needs DR applied to it, becuase multiples of these guys makes anything trainwrecked), GWF can do some respectable damage , but are simply being outshone by the retardedly high damage of the CW and TR, as well as being gimped when forced to try to kill anything cleric-protected
PVP now is a joke.
-No DR (really in 2013 MMO ?)
-Disconnects/AFKers (alow players to connect in a started game - same problem in pve)
-Premades vs pugs (premades should be queing vs another premades)
There is nothing at all "fun" or "balanced" about *any* class instantly crit-killing me by hitting me for 115% of my *entire* health pool using a single attack.
Here was the fight:
Rogue approaches.
I am dead.
Joy.
There is nothing fun about being killed while the entire length of the "fight" I am dazed, unable to cast, attack, or even dodge. Where is the DR? Where is the CC breaker?
The ability for classes to both CC and emit damage is freakishly insane.
By that same token, when a class *can't* do that, it snaps to the complete opposite of becoming painfully boring thanks to clerics (of which I am one). I had a match where myself and a GF fought another cleric and a GF at a point. After about 5 minutes we both just stopped attacking after mentioning in /say how boring it was getting.
Outgoing damage, CC, AND healing done all need serious pvp nerfs. I think the two fighters are fairly close to what their roles should be: the GF can be highly annoying thanks to all the knocking around (which still needs DR applied to it, becuase multiples of these guys makes anything trainwrecked), GWF can do some respectable damage , but are simply being outshone by the retardedly high damage of the CW and TR, as well as being gimped when forced to try to kill anything cleric-protected
I'm sorry but if you let a rogue approach you and don't do anything about it you deserve to die.
Rogue's are easily neutralized if you know what your doing, dodge 1 critical attack and the rogue goes off running to reset his cooldowns. Of course this requires awareness, something a lot of people severely lack...
Also the rogue daily doesn't insta-kill a full health target, the skill's damage is based on how much health the target is missing. So a successful "assassination" requires a correct approach, an opener that hit's hard enough and the uninterrupted daily to finish...
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tripwiredMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 5Arc User
I'm sorry but if you let a rogue approach you and don't do anything about it you deserve to die.
Rogue's are easily neutralized if you know what your doing, dodge 1 critical attack and the rogue goes off running to reset his cooldowns. Of course this requires awareness, something a lot of people severely lack...
Also the rogue daily doesn't insta-kill a full health target, the skill's damage is based on how much health the target is missing. So a successful "assassination" requires a correct approach, an opener that hit's hard enough and the uninterrupted daily to finish...
You're 100% right, I have played over 250PvP match's as a rogue, I have decent gear and I think im pretty good but if you miss one skill you die or have to run away from any other class. Rogues are easy to counter if you know what you're looking for.
here's some examples:
- Rogue's make a sound when they go in stealth, and you can see them when they are close.
- Rogue's deft strike, lashing blade, impact shot, dazing strike, duelist's flurry and smoke bomb can all be dodged by moving or dashing.
- Shocking Execution can be canceled by CCing the Rogue or dashing a few times away(Also if it runs out of range it uses all the Rogue's AP), plus its cast time is not that fast.
- Rogue's can be CCed by Mages while going into stealth(Which is BS imo), and if you didn't know this Rogue's stealth is depleted faster by taking damage so 1CC and your stealth is gone.
- Rogue's are squishy DPS Guardian Fighters, Mages and Great Weapon Fighters can kill you easy if you don't have your daily up or if you get CCed and every class has better CC then Rogues since Smoke bomb is easy as hell to dodge unless you're bad.
Rogues overall do a lot of damage, which they should but at the moment most classes can 1v1 them with ease which is stupid as hell since they are "assassins".
end of the day this is a pve game. the pvp is the worst i have ever played of mmo. its makes no sense on any level, bugs, bad LoS, dodge semi worthless, dmg to high. its just bad bad bad. anyway you look at it.
"Rogue's deft strike, lashing blade, impact shot, dazing strike, duelist's flurry and smoke bomb can all be dodged by moving or dashing"
dazing cannot. i have sometimes benn MILES away after a teleeport and it still hit. nice huh?
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tripwiredMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 5Arc User
"Rogue's deft strike, lashing blade, impact shot, dazing strike, duelist's flurry and smoke bomb can all be dodged by moving or dashing"
dazing cannot. i have sometimes benn MILES away after a teleeport and it still hit. nice huh?
You can dodge it so easy... one dash while a rogue's still in the air and you're free.
"Rogue's deft strike, lashing blade, impact shot, dazing strike, duelist's flurry and smoke bomb can all be dodged by moving or dashing"
dazing cannot. i have sometimes been MILES away after a teleport and it still hit. nice huh?
Having had people dodge it on my TR, that is all connection issue on your part (and the games). The game thought you were in the hit zone (which is fairly tiny). The game has alot of connection issues at times (& none at others).
Comments
I can't count the number of times I've been completely locked down because two enemy wizards just focus-fire me. PvP should not require premade teams using voicechat and well-rehearsed strategy to be "fun".
But then, I've yet to run into a Cryptic game where they've really made pvp balanced or enjoyable at anything less than max level. And even then not so much.
second time in 20 or 30 half of it. Wizard or to be fair all characters with powerfull and long time CC after "miss CC" (I mean after beat it to 0 sec ) just refresh or after 20 or 30 sec too. ( sorry for my english, this is clear? ) ;p
Fair is fair bro
How is that fun or balanced?
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
Anyhoo, no matter how much hope I have for the dev's to fix the pvp elements (on everyclass) I don't think it will happen. There will still be Amateurs relying on bugs, OP builds and unbalances to win. The combat mechanics of this game is quite refreshing and nice but I doubt PWE will care enough to cater to the serious pvpers out there.
oh well was fun while it lasted.
Fingers crossed for "Camelot Unchained"
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They don't need to have -everything- nerfed. They just need to have Eye of the Storm tweaked, if the damage is even an issue.
But honestly, if you take Eye of the Storm out of the equation, suddenly a rogue or GWF will trigger a little something that makes them immune to CC and decimate you.
I don't mind the GWF doing that. They've got the short stick in PvP, and being a CW slayer actually helps them. But rogues would be almost unstoppable without the burst to counter theirs.
I honestly don't mind PvP too much. I think most of the classes do their respective jobs very well. A balanced group that knows what they're doing will dominate because they know how to coordinate their class strengths. This is how group PvP should work.
Also, yeah, control can be a problem, when there's 2 or more control wizards controlling you. That's called teamwork. The problem is a CW can -burst- you down while controlling you.
Totally agree with every point the opsays, I am a 60 Gwf that has been pvping a lot, and it was way more enjoyable at lower elvels than at lvl60 is.
Some dmg and heal reductions should be applied, anyone taht doesnt see this is just a TR orCW that loves to one shoot ppl with 1 skill, which is no fun for anyone except him.
Im not asking for any characer nerfs, just make pvp as good as it was at lower levels, and no forme tr were not op lower levels, his main source of damage is so easy to dodge, they jump on the air before hit you just dodge in that moment.
You're welcome! Thank you for taking the time to read this, I appreciate it ;D!
Eh, i don't think it for that reason, i've played CW the most, but started a rogue, and they are pretty OP. They have great damage, great damage avoidance, and a bunch of ways to control too, especially in PvP. (can't use skills or even dodge, usually means quick death) I haven't hit 60 yet, but i kill things way faster on the rogue, take less damage, get WAY less aggro and it just "feels" much easier. I get that they are strikers, and should do more damage, but they should also not have it so great with all the other powers either.
no you havent i have tested my GF with 6.8k power and it takes me a rotation to kill someone your talking rubbish before you throw the "your bad card" hmmm bad is 19 kills in a match ?
yes i have tried knights challenge leave classes the same buff GF attack
What I would like to see is why can't you have more then one build similar to the soul system in Rift? Where I can PvP and PvE with my most invested character simply by having a secondary build option.
Funny my guild does premade PVPs literally all day.
And we faceroll the entire server.
I think you underestimate gamers. If people run premade dungeons, why wouldnt they run premade pvp?
Not everyone likes to play with idiots who cant coordinate attacks..
Watch twitch. Or get with a pvp guild. We run pre-mades all the time. And yea organized 5 v 5 is really fun. There is no bad class right now. Only bad players. PvP in this game punishes people who don't play their class well, mistakes get you killed. I love the pvp so far in this game.
Elite Defense Stovokor
Here was the fight:
Rogue approaches.
I am dead.
Joy.
There is nothing fun about being killed while the entire length of the "fight" I am dazed, unable to cast, attack, or even dodge. Where is the DR? Where is the CC breaker?
The ability for classes to both CC and emit damage is freakishly insane.
By that same token, when a class *can't* do that, it snaps to the complete opposite of becoming painfully boring thanks to clerics (of which I am one). I had a match where myself and a GF fought another cleric and a GF at a point. After about 5 minutes we both just stopped attacking after mentioning in /say how boring it was getting.
Outgoing damage, CC, AND healing done all need serious pvp nerfs. I think the two fighters are fairly close to what their roles should be: the GF can be highly annoying thanks to all the knocking around (which still needs DR applied to it, becuase multiples of these guys makes anything trainwrecked), GWF can do some respectable damage , but are simply being outshone by the retardedly high damage of the CW and TR, as well as being gimped when forced to try to kill anything cleric-protected
-No DR (really in 2013 MMO ?)
-Disconnects/AFKers (alow players to connect in a started game - same problem in pve)
-Premades vs pugs (premades should be queing vs another premades)
I'm sorry but if you let a rogue approach you and don't do anything about it you deserve to die.
Rogue's are easily neutralized if you know what your doing, dodge 1 critical attack and the rogue goes off running to reset his cooldowns. Of course this requires awareness, something a lot of people severely lack...
Also the rogue daily doesn't insta-kill a full health target, the skill's damage is based on how much health the target is missing. So a successful "assassination" requires a correct approach, an opener that hit's hard enough and the uninterrupted daily to finish...
You're 100% right, I have played over 250PvP match's as a rogue, I have decent gear and I think im pretty good but if you miss one skill you die or have to run away from any other class. Rogues are easy to counter if you know what you're looking for.
here's some examples:
- Rogue's make a sound when they go in stealth, and you can see them when they are close.
- Rogue's deft strike, lashing blade, impact shot, dazing strike, duelist's flurry and smoke bomb can all be dodged by moving or dashing.
- Shocking Execution can be canceled by CCing the Rogue or dashing a few times away(Also if it runs out of range it uses all the Rogue's AP), plus its cast time is not that fast.
- Rogue's can be CCed by Mages while going into stealth(Which is BS imo), and if you didn't know this Rogue's stealth is depleted faster by taking damage so 1CC and your stealth is gone.
- Rogue's are squishy DPS Guardian Fighters, Mages and Great Weapon Fighters can kill you easy if you don't have your daily up or if you get CCed and every class has better CC then Rogues since Smoke bomb is easy as hell to dodge unless you're bad.
Rogues overall do a lot of damage, which they should but at the moment most classes can 1v1 them with ease which is stupid as hell since they are "assassins".
Level 60 TR
Dragon Shard
dazing cannot. i have sometimes benn MILES away after a teleeport and it still hit. nice huh?
You can dodge it so easy... one dash while a rogue's still in the air and you're free.
Level 60 TR
Dragon Shard
Having had people dodge it on my TR, that is all connection issue on your part (and the games). The game thought you were in the hit zone (which is fairly tiny). The game has alot of connection issues at times (& none at others).
Then gues you haven`t played enough MMO`s at all! Can list so many that had even more players playing with way more unbalanced PVP.
smoke bomb 1~2min cd? LOL