First off, despite the lack of maps/gameplay types, I really enjoy PVP. That said, the rewards for losing a 20 minute, 1000 to 985 game are pathetic. I stay for the fight, but I understand why people leave. Implement a leaving penalty and you get people dancing around the campfire. That's no fun, either. I say restore rewards if the losing side scores more than 500-600 points. That's possible even with a 4v5... just spend your time stealth capping. Or do it based on damage/healing dealt (set a minimum to reach the good rewards). Or set a minimum points threshold. Lots of ways to do it.
After even more PvP the results are the same. There are a handful of matches that actually finished with 5v5 but in most games once one team gets a 100 point early lead, the other teams players drop.
I've had games were I am the last person on my team and stick it out for a few hundred bonus glory. But at this point PvP isn't even a match anymore as majority of the games @ 60 are over in 2-3 minutes.
Running away penalties are a must as well. You are there to fight (and die!) for your team, not blink or dodge away.
Can't tell if this is a serious response or satire. But hey I can play too..
Why don't we make it so the winning side gets a major dmg reduction buff? That way the losing side has a chance to catch up if they are getting mopped? Yeah and then also the losing side get's double points awarded while they are behind by a certain amount?
btw you get double the win, 2/4(daily)
if you are under the top 5 of the match. even if your team loses, if your points are high enough to be in the top5 you can finish that stupid daily in 2games.
Can't tell if this is a serious response or satire. But hey I can play too..
Why don't we make it so the winning side gets a major dmg reduction buff? That way the losing side has a chance to catch up if they are getting mopped? Yeah and then also the losing side get's double points awarded while they are behind by a certain amount?
Careful. After this last imbalance patch, PWE might be stupid enough to actually do something like this, further alienating people from pvp.
Edit - Basically you'd get punished for winning and losing. No one would want to bother then.
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neo1313Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I'm a PvP player and spend most of my time PvPing outside of DD's. Tonight after the patch my games have pretty much been players leaving after 1 minute into the game and my team capping 2 or 3 points at start of game.
I've even had games with 0 players on the other team left and us just sitting waiting for game to end. Also these games with no players left give horrible glory. There needs to be some kind of punishment for leaving a PvP match early as this is really ruining the PvP experience.
I did some thinking about this for a while and I think I have the answer!
In its current form, it seems the amount of glory awarded is based on level. Higher level you are, the more glory you gain (before mods of course). At level 31 in its current form my rogue gets in all like 350 glory I think, including win bonuses per match. I was getting 500 or so before this last patch. When I pvped on my CW at 60 she got like 2000 per win, before this last patch. So my examples below will use these formulas:
Lets say at 60, you win a match with full participation (ie. capping, and kills and assists, since it seems thats what the points are based off of), and when you win you get 2000 glory. Now with the scoring lets say you get 1 point of glory PER point in your score at 60. (at 30 it would be half this amount, at 15 a quarter.. A graph would be below) Lets say bonuses are set at 10% and cap the BASE max amount of glory awarded per match out at 2000 with a 10% bonus totaling 2200 glory. This means you would have to play at least 10 perfect games at 60 to be able to completely get your set. This most likely wont happen but it wouldnt take forever. Now if the devs think this is too much glory awarded per game they can tweak these numbers and lessen it or increase it depending on what their vision is for pvp for this game. Also this is only for pvp domination, not the Gauntlegrym setup thats coming.
Disconnects and AFKers
Okay, now that we have that out of the way lets talk about penalties, since the most possible glory awarded would be 2200 at 60 per game, lets put the scores into tiers, 0 points at the end of a game would TAKE glory (lets say 10% of your total). Disconnects would be exempt because the system would immediately boot the disconnected player and replace the spot. 300 points per cap means you could get to 2100 in 7 caps, but this would be adjusted by kills, assists, and other things. I think you get like 25 points per assist. So at 0 points glory is taken (this is to combat the afkers who circumvent the afk movement cooldown ("System Messsage: You seem to be AFK in a PVP match, please participate in 30 seconds or be removed from the match by moving/capping/assisting/killing a player.").
Put in an afk flag algorithm that would prevent an AFKer from joining a match for 30 minutes. Leavers/quitters would get should get a join match timeout. I am sorry but if you queue for a pug pvp match and you dont like the setup you dont get to screw your group over by leaving just because you didnt like whoever was in the group. It isnt fair to the others when you do this and it should penalize YOU for doing so. If mom calls you down to dinner or to do laundry right when you join then LOG OFF (the system will treat this as a disconnect, timing you out from PVP activity, without you losing glory and will replace you accordingly), since you are eating or doing laundry, which should take a half an hour or less it wouldnt matter any way.
If you want to log back on and sit in protectors enclave until you can get back into PVP then fine, 30 minutes or 15 of it when you get back wont kill you. The above penalizing system is for AFKers only, not people who leave, the system should replace the quitter with someone else and BASE THEIR SCORE AND/OR GLORY PENALTY BY THE AMOUNT OF TIME SPENT IN THE MATCH. So if an AFKER joins the match and they are there from start to finish (0-100%) and they have a score of lets say 250 or lower, (i will put the lowest tier here since you get 300 for capping a single point) then they get the -10% penalty. If they joined and spent half the time there they would only get a -5% penalty and so on and so forth.
The activity in a match timeout AND the penalty would not only keep botters out from matches, it would prevent them from leveling as this needs to be done for the exp awarded also. This system seems complicated but its actually simple. Just base awards (EXP and Glory) off of time spent and participation in a match and give bonuses accordingly. Penalize afkers by kicking them out if they dont participate with a pvp join match cooldown of 30 minutes and the quitters with just a cooldown.
Scoring:
Someone suggested a "buy in" system for PVP, which is a really good idea, but I feel in the long run this would hurt more people that it would help. Its a good idea but it just seems there are too many things that could go wrong with this system. My scoring idea is sort of off of the idea of the poker buy in idea. Lets say each person can get 2k glory max (before bonuses). That means the most a whole team can get is 10k glory if they win. Give a pool of total glory that can be won in a match of say 15k. okay the winning team gets a max of 10k, but the losing team gets 5k if they got their points halfway across the bar.
That would mean even though they lost, since they got halfway to winning the max they only got "half" the max award, whereas the winning team gets the max. Lets say its a win by 100/90 (meaning the winning team got their bar to 100 but the losing team got their bar to 90) then give the losing team almost HALF of what the max glory achieved could be, so in other words in this scenario since 15k glory is the figure we are using in a level 60 match with full participation and rewards, then the winning team would get 55% (8250 divided among that team) of this and the losing team would get 45% (6750 divided among that team). That would mean these amounts would get divided even more for participation on the TEAMS roster (1st place score for Team A - the winning team, second place gets less, third place even less and so on and so forth) and this would be the same for Team B also.
That would mean the people who contributed the MOST PER TEAM would get the most glory/awards. If you got first place in your team (top contributor) you would get obv the most glory plus a bonus. Lets say the 10% on top of the 10% if you won, that would make you the top player for that match, so you could theoretically win the most glory for you for your winning team PLUS an extra 20%. This would give a huge incentive for participation. AFKers get nothing and pay a glory penalty, botters get next to nothing, baddies get something good players get the average award, and the best players who won the number 1 spot for their team by their participation rating would get the most glory plus a bonus. An example below.
Participation glory amounts for an example game: Total Glory in the pool - 15,000
Match won with bases scores at end: 100/90
Team A (WINNING Team) 8250 total glory awarded to team +10% bonus glory for winning: 9075 Glory awarded total.
Group Member 1: (3300 points) (lots of caps/assists/kills) - 2500 (+10% (250) for being top player: 2750 glory total)
Group Member 2: (3125 points) (lots of caps/assists) - 2250 (+5% (113) for being second: 2363 glory total)
Group Member 3: (2350 points) (5 caps + assists/kills) - 1900 (no bonus)
Group Member 4: (1225 points) (4 caps plus an assist/kill) - 1600 (no bonus)
Group Member 5: (900 points) (3 caps) - 825 (no bonus)
Team B (LOSING Team) 6750 total glory awarded to team, no bonus for losing: 6750 Glory awarded total.
Group Member 1: (2500 points) - 2100 (+5% (105) for being top player on LOSING team: 2205 glory total)
Group Member 2: (2225 points) - 1800 (+2.5% (45) for being second: 1845 glory total)
Group Member 3: (1850 points) - 1600 (no bonus)
Group Member 4: (1575 points) - 1250 (no bonus)
Group Member 5: (30 points) (no participation/suspected bot/afker) - 0 (-500 glory penalty/no exp awarded)
As you can see my numbers for the above example work, as this could be a likely scenario of a match. Team A won because they were better and/or team b had a bot and/or afker, but they still won some glory for trying. This would have been a 5 v 4 match because of the bot/afker. Lets also throw in that team B had a disconnect or quitter because someone raged about the bot or left for some other reason halfway through the game. The system would replace that person with someone waiting in queue and the match would continue on as if nothing happened.
Team B tries and its a close game, but in the end team A won for whatever reason. THIS would make it so that people (such as me when I join a match) if they stay and at least try to win, the system will still award you for your efforts cause lets face it games are all about risk vs rewards and working to achieve a goal/reward. In a future patch you could even implement a ranking system where the server keeps historical data on average performance in matches and even have a leaderboard with the top ranking pvper for domination. I love PVP in this game, it has great potential, but in the current state its in with the glory being awarded and afker/quitters is makes pvp in this game a joke. That may seem like a contradictory statement but when you play 100 pvp games a day and in 40 you get roflstomped and 40 you roflstomp the other team and in only 20 they are good games then something is very wrong.
This isnt a reply about class balance, as I have been in all kinds of team matchups, including the dream team (Cleric, Rogue, Rogue, CW, CW) makeup and yes if the players are half decent its easy. But hey lets face it, youre not going to win anything standing at the spawn camp fire. Yes pvp has a way to go in this game as far as being balanced but my system above will at least give those who try and participate a chance to win some glory. The post above is in a rough format as I have been thinking about this for a while now but never committed to actually posting something about it until today, when I felt compelled to do so. I am doing this not only to help Cryptic/PWE, but to help myself and the players who love and play this game, and see the potential it has, especially the PVP aspect.
My idea above might be bad to some, but at least I am trying to contribute to this game, something that I think we all as a community as a whole and customers of this game should do.
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neo1313Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
Really hope a dev sees this thread as its got some good ideas!
If you make pvp gear bound on account we wouldn't be having this problem at all. First it will deter the glory farmer bots. Second the penalty don't have to be that severe. So now you barely get glory when you lose. Next you don't get glory if you AFK or if the match last for a very short time (penalty for all involved). Or a severe penalty if you quit during a match (i'm very sure someone is pushing that). What will result in all of these restrictions is people will feel that pvp is more trouble than it's worth. Then what do you get ? A dead pvp.
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gdante7111111Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 227Arc User
edited June 2013
Penalty for leaving ? if I have to go I have to go, I will get punished for doing that ?. I cant leave if I have to, so its do it or dont enter at all. Stupid to punish for leaving, you dont know why the person left.
P.S So there will not be a punishment for leaving final.
Penalty for leaving ? if I have to go I have to go, I will get punished for doing that ?. I cant leave if I have to, so its do it or dont enter at all. Stupid to punish for leaving, you dont know why the person left.
P.S So there will not be a punishment for leaving final.
Not yet... but word is.. they are pushing for some form of penalty if you quit the game during a match. Something like... can't queue for X amount of time.
all a leaving penalty will do is have people sit around the campfire roasting smores.
I do this already on bad/lopsided matches, because I'm there for the daily/AD not the glory. I maxed out on glory a long long time ago. I suppose making the glory gear char-bound would help though.
other than that, if you don't want people to leave, give them a reason to stay, rather than punish them. people don't like to be punished, and I dunno about anyone else but I play games to have fun. right now PVP is fun, to a point, but it could be better.
I have to say Rift had PVP down to where even I thought it was fun..the humans and defiants camps were side by side in all zones, adds would crawl close to the exits and if you happen to be in a mesh fight with a horrd of monsters and hit an opposing player... the gloves came off and it was a free for all...I think I miss that about Rift... as for PVP in general, won't catch me in a zone doing it... so I guess I have no real input here:)
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Sir, were now surrounded"!
Thats great news son, now we can attack from ALL sides"!
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neo1313Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Penalty for leaving ? if I have to go I have to go, I will get punished for doing that ?. I cant leave if I have to, so its do it or dont enter at all. Stupid to punish for leaving, you dont know why the person left.
P.S So there will not be a punishment for leaving final.
Only penalty for leaving I outlined in my idea above was a 30 min cooldown on joining a match such as blizzards deserter debuff in World of Warcraft. If you want to get bent out of shape over 30 minutes because you deserted your team then thats your business, but crying about it on here wont achieve anything. The ONLY -glory penalty I said was for botters/AFKers. If you sat on your butt in a match afk or in the hopes of being carried because youre too lazy to be a team player or cant be bothered with it then it only serves you right and is fair and just to have you booted out by the system or LOSE glory and get no rewards. Its as simple as that.
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bostishMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
Lots more quitters. I'm assuming they are not getting any exp though right?
Or are they now just quitting to look for a winning game to get exp/glory in?
Before you make an inclusive statement like that, you should imagine yourself in this scenario:
You zone into PvP. You are the only human playing, the rest of your team is bots at the spawn, leaving you the only person fighting a five man team, or even four or three.
Still want to be penalized for leaving a hopeless match?
Use your brain and think about logic. If you put leaving penalties nobody will ever join or think of pvping. ROFL you just make my day.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited June 2013
Leaving penalties are a must.
Forgivenesses are a must.
Numerous other things are a must.
Leaving penalties are in every single PvP Game to prevent players from sentencing the team to losing.
Arguing they shouldn't occur because of other things which have to be solved is avoiding the issue.
WOW... Seriously,i start to believe this community is worse then everything i saw so far...
Dont like 1 player on my Team,or get dominated by the enemy right away? NP i just leave and requeue into a "better odds" game without any penalty for me,while i just ruined 9 other peoples match.
If everyone would think like that we would have no PvP anymore..
Cant win a match? NP lets just all leave and requeue for better luck next time. HAMSTER over the winning team while we are at it,just cause we cba playing a game where the odds arent in our favor.
Again LoL is a good comparison to this type of Match.. 1 leaver/afk can ruin the game for 9 others,and MUST be punished for that behavior,no matter if he does it cause his Teammate "suxx" or the enemy is "OP" etc etc..
NOTE IMPORTANT : 1 leave or afk once in a while wont result in any major punishment,all it does is stop you from instantly joining the Queue again to prevent the phenomenon i described earlier in this post,and chances are if you had to leave/afk by the time you come back the timer for requeue is done anyway.
The only thing that has to be dealt with afterwards is Bots! But with losing games giving less rewards,glory items beeing BoA (bind on aquire/pickup) Botting becomes much less attractive anyway...
Ah yes,i am aware that less rewards for losing games will upset people,but if you PvP for rewards,you are doing it for the wrong reasons to begin with imo anyways...
Also add a "Report Bot" Button maybe,but then again,this community would probably abuse it to spam reports for people they dont like or lose against xD...
Gearchecks upon Queue entry (with a lock on gearswapping thereafter to prevent ppl tricking the system) Random Teams only fight Random Teams,premade vs premade,afk/leavers punished and leavers beeing replaced asap,and maybe,just maybe we have some nice pvp once in a while (oh wait i keep forgetting,for the majority its only "nice and fun" if they steamroll enemies to farm rewards)
Ah well...
WOW... Seriously,i start to believe this community is worse then everything i saw so far...
Dont like 1 player on my Team,or get dominated by the enemy right away? NP i just leave and requeue into a "better odds" game without any penalty for me,while i just ruined 9 other peoples match.
If everyone would think like that we would have no PvP anymore..
Cant win a match? NP lets just all leave and requeue for better luck next time. HAMSTER over the winning team while we are at it,just cause we cba playing a game where the odds arent in our favor.
Again LoL is a good comparison to this type of Match.. 1 leaver/afk can ruin the game for 9 others,and MUST be punished for that behavior,no matter if he does it cause his Teammate "suxx" or the enemy is "OP" etc etc..
NOTE IMPORTANT : 1 leave or afk once in a while wont result in any major punishment,all it does is stop you from instantly joining the Queue again to prevent the phenomenon i described earlier in this post,and chances are if you had to leave/afk by the time you come back the timer for requeue is done anyway.
The only thing that has to be dealt with afterwards is Bots! But with losing games giving less rewards,glory items beeing BoA (bind on aquire/pickup) Botting becomes much less attractive anyway...
Ah yes,i am aware that less rewards for losing games will upset people,but if you PvP for rewards,you are doing it for the wrong reasons to begin with imo anyways...
Also add a "Report Bot" Button maybe,but then again,this community would probably abuse it to spam reports for people they dont like or lose against xD...
Gearchecks upon Queue entry (with a lock on gearswapping thereafter to prevent ppl tricking the system) Random Teams only fight Random Teams,premade vs premade,afk/leavers punished and leavers beeing replaced asap,and maybe,just maybe we have some nice pvp once in a while (oh wait i keep forgetting,for the majority its only "nice and fun" if they steamroll enemies to farm rewards)
Ah well...
Being forced to stay in a match someone already left or in a group of people in greens getting 1-2 shot by a$$holes sporting 6 tenebrous is punishment enough.
Get over yourself.
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
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zingarbageMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
If you are solo queuing, you should expect people to leave. Just the way it is.
If you don't want to face that hassle, you need to encourage cryptic to put in place a team vs. team queue and then play with your friends, like you should do in a MMO.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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capainjfulsesMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 4Arc User
edited June 2013
I had fun doing PVP before the patch. It seemed like most of the time i was not even aware of bots and afk'ers. I have never and will never leave a match, i would always try and improve my skills against the odds when things went south. Now, i get nothing for my effort, even on the winning side most of the time. Talk all you want about leaving penalties, good luck with that. However since my pride won't let me leave, and we can not kick bots and afk'ers, i will not do any more pvp, simple solution for me.
First we need the dev team to fix the ledges in the PvP maps so the other team won't be able to just spawn kill you non stop when you end up 2v5 thanksssss.
WOW... Seriously,i start to believe this community is worse then everything i saw so far...
Dont like 1 player on my Team,or get dominated by the enemy right away? NP i just leave and requeue into a "better odds" game without any penalty for me,while i just ruined 9 other peoples match.
If everyone would think like that we would have no PvP anymore..
Cant win a match? NP lets just all leave and requeue for better luck next time. HAMSTER over the winning team while we are at it,just cause we cba playing a game where the odds arent in our favor.
Again LoL is a good comparison to this type of Match.. 1 leaver/afk can ruin the game for 9 others,and MUST be punished for that behavior,no matter if he does it cause his Teammate "suxx" or the enemy is "OP" etc etc..
NOTE IMPORTANT : 1 leave or afk once in a while wont result in any major punishment,all it does is stop you from instantly joining the Queue again to prevent the phenomenon i described earlier in this post,and chances are if you had to leave/afk by the time you come back the timer for requeue is done anyway.
The only thing that has to be dealt with afterwards is Bots! But with losing games giving less rewards,glory items beeing BoA (bind on aquire/pickup) Botting becomes much less attractive anyway...
Ah yes,i am aware that less rewards for losing games will upset people,but if you PvP for rewards,you are doing it for the wrong reasons to begin with imo anyways...
Also add a "Report Bot" Button maybe,but then again,this community would probably abuse it to spam reports for people they dont like or lose against xD...
Gearchecks upon Queue entry (with a lock on gearswapping thereafter to prevent ppl tricking the system) Random Teams only fight Random Teams,premade vs premade,afk/leavers punished and leavers beeing replaced asap,and maybe,just maybe we have some nice pvp once in a while (oh wait i keep forgetting,for the majority its only "nice and fun" if they steamroll enemies to farm rewards)
Ah well...
Comments
After even more PvP the results are the same. There are a handful of matches that actually finished with 5v5 but in most games once one team gets a 100 point early lead, the other teams players drop.
I've had games were I am the last person on my team and stick it out for a few hundred bonus glory. But at this point PvP isn't even a match anymore as majority of the games @ 60 are over in 2-3 minutes.
Can't tell if this is a serious response or satire. But hey I can play too..
Why don't we make it so the winning side gets a major dmg reduction buff? That way the losing side has a chance to catch up if they are getting mopped? Yeah and then also the losing side get's double points awarded while they are behind by a certain amount?
if you are under the top 5 of the match. even if your team loses, if your points are high enough to be in the top5 you can finish that stupid daily in 2games.
Careful. After this last imbalance patch, PWE might be stupid enough to actually do something like this, further alienating people from pvp.
Edit - Basically you'd get punished for winning and losing. No one would want to bother then.
I did some thinking about this for a while and I think I have the answer!
In its current form, it seems the amount of glory awarded is based on level. Higher level you are, the more glory you gain (before mods of course). At level 31 in its current form my rogue gets in all like 350 glory I think, including win bonuses per match. I was getting 500 or so before this last patch. When I pvped on my CW at 60 she got like 2000 per win, before this last patch. So my examples below will use these formulas:
Lets say at 60, you win a match with full participation (ie. capping, and kills and assists, since it seems thats what the points are based off of), and when you win you get 2000 glory. Now with the scoring lets say you get 1 point of glory PER point in your score at 60. (at 30 it would be half this amount, at 15 a quarter.. A graph would be below) Lets say bonuses are set at 10% and cap the BASE max amount of glory awarded per match out at 2000 with a 10% bonus totaling 2200 glory. This means you would have to play at least 10 perfect games at 60 to be able to completely get your set. This most likely wont happen but it wouldnt take forever. Now if the devs think this is too much glory awarded per game they can tweak these numbers and lessen it or increase it depending on what their vision is for pvp for this game. Also this is only for pvp domination, not the Gauntlegrym setup thats coming.
Disconnects and AFKers
Okay, now that we have that out of the way lets talk about penalties, since the most possible glory awarded would be 2200 at 60 per game, lets put the scores into tiers, 0 points at the end of a game would TAKE glory (lets say 10% of your total). Disconnects would be exempt because the system would immediately boot the disconnected player and replace the spot. 300 points per cap means you could get to 2100 in 7 caps, but this would be adjusted by kills, assists, and other things. I think you get like 25 points per assist. So at 0 points glory is taken (this is to combat the afkers who circumvent the afk movement cooldown ("System Messsage: You seem to be AFK in a PVP match, please participate in 30 seconds or be removed from the match by moving/capping/assisting/killing a player.").
Put in an afk flag algorithm that would prevent an AFKer from joining a match for 30 minutes. Leavers/quitters would get should get a join match timeout. I am sorry but if you queue for a pug pvp match and you dont like the setup you dont get to screw your group over by leaving just because you didnt like whoever was in the group. It isnt fair to the others when you do this and it should penalize YOU for doing so. If mom calls you down to dinner or to do laundry right when you join then LOG OFF (the system will treat this as a disconnect, timing you out from PVP activity, without you losing glory and will replace you accordingly), since you are eating or doing laundry, which should take a half an hour or less it wouldnt matter any way.
If you want to log back on and sit in protectors enclave until you can get back into PVP then fine, 30 minutes or 15 of it when you get back wont kill you. The above penalizing system is for AFKers only, not people who leave, the system should replace the quitter with someone else and BASE THEIR SCORE AND/OR GLORY PENALTY BY THE AMOUNT OF TIME SPENT IN THE MATCH. So if an AFKER joins the match and they are there from start to finish (0-100%) and they have a score of lets say 250 or lower, (i will put the lowest tier here since you get 300 for capping a single point) then they get the -10% penalty. If they joined and spent half the time there they would only get a -5% penalty and so on and so forth.
The activity in a match timeout AND the penalty would not only keep botters out from matches, it would prevent them from leveling as this needs to be done for the exp awarded also. This system seems complicated but its actually simple. Just base awards (EXP and Glory) off of time spent and participation in a match and give bonuses accordingly. Penalize afkers by kicking them out if they dont participate with a pvp join match cooldown of 30 minutes and the quitters with just a cooldown.
Scoring:
Someone suggested a "buy in" system for PVP, which is a really good idea, but I feel in the long run this would hurt more people that it would help. Its a good idea but it just seems there are too many things that could go wrong with this system. My scoring idea is sort of off of the idea of the poker buy in idea. Lets say each person can get 2k glory max (before bonuses). That means the most a whole team can get is 10k glory if they win. Give a pool of total glory that can be won in a match of say 15k. okay the winning team gets a max of 10k, but the losing team gets 5k if they got their points halfway across the bar.
That would mean even though they lost, since they got halfway to winning the max they only got "half" the max award, whereas the winning team gets the max. Lets say its a win by 100/90 (meaning the winning team got their bar to 100 but the losing team got their bar to 90) then give the losing team almost HALF of what the max glory achieved could be, so in other words in this scenario since 15k glory is the figure we are using in a level 60 match with full participation and rewards, then the winning team would get 55% (8250 divided among that team) of this and the losing team would get 45% (6750 divided among that team). That would mean these amounts would get divided even more for participation on the TEAMS roster (1st place score for Team A - the winning team, second place gets less, third place even less and so on and so forth) and this would be the same for Team B also.
That would mean the people who contributed the MOST PER TEAM would get the most glory/awards. If you got first place in your team (top contributor) you would get obv the most glory plus a bonus. Lets say the 10% on top of the 10% if you won, that would make you the top player for that match, so you could theoretically win the most glory for you for your winning team PLUS an extra 20%. This would give a huge incentive for participation. AFKers get nothing and pay a glory penalty, botters get next to nothing, baddies get something good players get the average award, and the best players who won the number 1 spot for their team by their participation rating would get the most glory plus a bonus. An example below.
Participation glory amounts for an example game: Total Glory in the pool - 15,000
Match won with bases scores at end: 100/90
Team A (WINNING Team) 8250 total glory awarded to team +10% bonus glory for winning: 9075 Glory awarded total.
Group Member 1: (3300 points) (lots of caps/assists/kills) - 2500 (+10% (250) for being top player: 2750 glory total)
Group Member 2: (3125 points) (lots of caps/assists) - 2250 (+5% (113) for being second: 2363 glory total)
Group Member 3: (2350 points) (5 caps + assists/kills) - 1900 (no bonus)
Group Member 4: (1225 points) (4 caps plus an assist/kill) - 1600 (no bonus)
Group Member 5: (900 points) (3 caps) - 825 (no bonus)
Team B (LOSING Team) 6750 total glory awarded to team, no bonus for losing: 6750 Glory awarded total.
Group Member 1: (2500 points) - 2100 (+5% (105) for being top player on LOSING team: 2205 glory total)
Group Member 2: (2225 points) - 1800 (+2.5% (45) for being second: 1845 glory total)
Group Member 3: (1850 points) - 1600 (no bonus)
Group Member 4: (1575 points) - 1250 (no bonus)
Group Member 5: (30 points) (no participation/suspected bot/afker) - 0 (-500 glory penalty/no exp awarded)
As you can see my numbers for the above example work, as this could be a likely scenario of a match. Team A won because they were better and/or team b had a bot and/or afker, but they still won some glory for trying. This would have been a 5 v 4 match because of the bot/afker. Lets also throw in that team B had a disconnect or quitter because someone raged about the bot or left for some other reason halfway through the game. The system would replace that person with someone waiting in queue and the match would continue on as if nothing happened.
Team B tries and its a close game, but in the end team A won for whatever reason. THIS would make it so that people (such as me when I join a match) if they stay and at least try to win, the system will still award you for your efforts cause lets face it games are all about risk vs rewards and working to achieve a goal/reward. In a future patch you could even implement a ranking system where the server keeps historical data on average performance in matches and even have a leaderboard with the top ranking pvper for domination. I love PVP in this game, it has great potential, but in the current state its in with the glory being awarded and afker/quitters is makes pvp in this game a joke. That may seem like a contradictory statement but when you play 100 pvp games a day and in 40 you get roflstomped and 40 you roflstomp the other team and in only 20 they are good games then something is very wrong.
This isnt a reply about class balance, as I have been in all kinds of team matchups, including the dream team (Cleric, Rogue, Rogue, CW, CW) makeup and yes if the players are half decent its easy. But hey lets face it, youre not going to win anything standing at the spawn camp fire. Yes pvp has a way to go in this game as far as being balanced but my system above will at least give those who try and participate a chance to win some glory. The post above is in a rough format as I have been thinking about this for a while now but never committed to actually posting something about it until today, when I felt compelled to do so. I am doing this not only to help Cryptic/PWE, but to help myself and the players who love and play this game, and see the potential it has, especially the PVP aspect.
My idea above might be bad to some, but at least I am trying to contribute to this game, something that I think we all as a community as a whole and customers of this game should do.
P.S So there will not be a punishment for leaving final.
Not yet... but word is.. they are pushing for some form of penalty if you quit the game during a match. Something like... can't queue for X amount of time.
I do this already on bad/lopsided matches, because I'm there for the daily/AD not the glory. I maxed out on glory a long long time ago. I suppose making the glory gear char-bound would help though.
other than that, if you don't want people to leave, give them a reason to stay, rather than punish them. people don't like to be punished, and I dunno about anyone else but I play games to have fun. right now PVP is fun, to a point, but it could be better.
"Sir, were now surrounded"!
Thats great news son, now we can attack from ALL sides"!
Only penalty for leaving I outlined in my idea above was a 30 min cooldown on joining a match such as blizzards deserter debuff in World of Warcraft. If you want to get bent out of shape over 30 minutes because you deserted your team then thats your business, but crying about it on here wont achieve anything. The ONLY -glory penalty I said was for botters/AFKers. If you sat on your butt in a match afk or in the hopes of being carried because youre too lazy to be a team player or cant be bothered with it then it only serves you right and is fair and just to have you booted out by the system or LOSE glory and get no rewards. Its as simple as that.
Or are they now just quitting to look for a winning game to get exp/glory in?
that's why they're quitting, lol.
Before you make an inclusive statement like that, you should imagine yourself in this scenario:
You zone into PvP. You are the only human playing, the rest of your team is bots at the spawn, leaving you the only person fighting a five man team, or even four or three.
Still want to be penalized for leaving a hopeless match?
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
- DRAGON - ( Mehrea DC 13.1k ) - ( Volsung TR 11.7k )
Use your brain and think about logic. If you put leaving penalties nobody will ever join or think of pvping. ROFL you just make my day.
Forgivenesses are a must.
Numerous other things are a must.
Leaving penalties are in every single PvP Game to prevent players from sentencing the team to losing.
Arguing they shouldn't occur because of other things which have to be solved is avoiding the issue.
They are leaving and instantly requeuing because they can.
That should NEVER occur in a game with Team Arena PvP.
Dont like 1 player on my Team,or get dominated by the enemy right away? NP i just leave and requeue into a "better odds" game without any penalty for me,while i just ruined 9 other peoples match.
If everyone would think like that we would have no PvP anymore..
Cant win a match? NP lets just all leave and requeue for better luck next time. HAMSTER over the winning team while we are at it,just cause we cba playing a game where the odds arent in our favor.
Again LoL is a good comparison to this type of Match.. 1 leaver/afk can ruin the game for 9 others,and MUST be punished for that behavior,no matter if he does it cause his Teammate "suxx" or the enemy is "OP" etc etc..
NOTE IMPORTANT : 1 leave or afk once in a while wont result in any major punishment,all it does is stop you from instantly joining the Queue again to prevent the phenomenon i described earlier in this post,and chances are if you had to leave/afk by the time you come back the timer for requeue is done anyway.
The only thing that has to be dealt with afterwards is Bots! But with losing games giving less rewards,glory items beeing BoA (bind on aquire/pickup) Botting becomes much less attractive anyway...
Ah yes,i am aware that less rewards for losing games will upset people,but if you PvP for rewards,you are doing it for the wrong reasons to begin with imo anyways...
Also add a "Report Bot" Button maybe,but then again,this community would probably abuse it to spam reports for people they dont like or lose against xD...
Gearchecks upon Queue entry (with a lock on gearswapping thereafter to prevent ppl tricking the system) Random Teams only fight Random Teams,premade vs premade,afk/leavers punished and leavers beeing replaced asap,and maybe,just maybe we have some nice pvp once in a while (oh wait i keep forgetting,for the majority its only "nice and fun" if they steamroll enemies to farm rewards)
Ah well...
Being forced to stay in a match someone already left or in a group of people in greens getting 1-2 shot by a$$holes sporting 6 tenebrous is punishment enough.
Get over yourself.
If you don't want to face that hassle, you need to encourage cryptic to put in place a team vs. team queue and then play with your friends, like you should do in a MMO.
First we need the dev team to fix the ledges in the PvP maps so the other team won't be able to just spawn kill you non stop when you end up 2v5 thanksssss.
You gotta be kidding me .