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((T2)) Thaumaturge Spec/Powers/Role
copticone
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Hello fellow CWs,
This spec is now updated to reflect the changes in the Module 1 Balancing update of 8-22-2013. The original spec, is still perfectly fine with respect to the changes in the Module 1 Balancing update. But I just feel these changes make it a little more efficient. If nothing else, it adds a new flavor to the mix.
What this thread is NOT about:
- A Guide, certainly not a leveling guide. In fact, I dont advise new CWs to follow this spec while leveling up since you need practically all the points feated in order for everything to come together nicely. Also the playstyle is more suited for T2 dungeon runs.
- An explanation of every Power/Feat. I believe every new CW should experiment with as many Powers/feats as possible before committing to one spec/playstyle.
- A criticism of other Guides/builds/specs/rants/or other condescending/ego boosting threads. I understand that there are different playstyles, and what may seem like a perfect fit for me may not be for someone else.
The Spec:
http://nwcalc.com/cw?b=m1b:4yqm4:b8i4,13n1i50:6u000:bz0u1:b0000&h=0
(UPDATED POINTS ALLOCATION)
The above allocation of feat points reflects my most recent respec as of 8-24-2013
- Elemental Empowerment no longer seems worth it now that Shield is very situational and is replaced with Sudden Storm.
- Sudden Storm with just over 6sec CD, is proving to be quite good. Your focus, using your chills/stuns/dailies is to place as many mobs as possible right in front of you to maximize Sudden Storm damage.
- The net result of this tweak is higher AoE damage with good AP regen. Full AP bar in 22-25sec with 3.2k Recovery
Powers Slotted:
<Main At-Will> Chilling Could
<2nd At-Will> Storm Pillar (updated: 8-22-2013)
<2nd At-Will> Ray of Frost (for PVP)
<Class Feature1> Storm Spell
<Class Feature2> Chilling Presence
For 90% of the content
Conduit of Ice (On Mastery)
Icy Terrain
Steal Time
Sudden Storm (updated 8-24-13)
The above setup is for Trash encounters, plus the majority of the mini bosses. Other powers I will mention for specific Boss Fights below.
For Single Target
Conduit of Ice (On Mastery)
Chill Strike
Ray of Enfeeblemt
Steal Time (in case you get jumped by adds)
The above is for situations where you won't be dealing with adds and your main focus is the boss. (e.i. CN Draco after bugging all the red wizards)
Ability Scores
I personally prefer stacking INT+CHA
Build Rational:
I do not buy the argument that CWs are just for "Controlling" adds. To me that's a lazy mentality. While throwing adds off ledges speeds up a run, it also comes with a lot of headache. Mobs can drag other adds when accidentally knocked away. Mobs can and do respawn. If someone in the party disconnects, or when a camp fire is bugged and you are taken back to the beginning of the dungeon, you need to not only deal with the respawns, but also require the rest of the party to run all the way back to help. TRs can and do often get knocked off.
I am not saying that we shouldn't use ledges to our advantage, but in many situations, it is far smoother and less risky to just burn the adds down. You also make GFs/GWFs feel like they are contributing in the run :P (j/k)
With that mentality, this spec does the following in an extremely efficient way:
- maximize AoE damage, while still doing excellent single target dps
- maintain maximum CC, and not just in the form of Singularities.
- Constantly debuffing mobs for the entire group.
<<<CHILLING CLOUD>>>
With this spec Chilling Cloud contribute to a significant boost to dps indirectly and to a lesser degree indirectly, by adding chill stacks, proccing feats/dots, while maintain AoE dps. Just look at the feats and see how Chilling Cloud synergizes with just about everything.
(Updade: 8-16-2013) Now that I also added Storm Pillar to the mix, it makes things a little more exciting. The best timing for Storm Pillar is right after you throw a Singularity up. Also when surrounded by adds and the encounters are on Cooldown, it is good to do a full charged Storm Pillar ontop of yourself, followed by Steal Time. It goes without saying that any moment of downtime should be spent charging Storm Pillar to generate out of combat AP.
(Updated 8-24-13) Storm Pillar got somewhat of a nerf, for god knows why. Only the main hit is critting and procing Spell Storm. Regardless, it is still a nice filler to get an extra 10% damage for 6 seconds. If and when they return Storm Pillar to its original state, or even better buff it, you could use it more often.
This is just a beautiful AoE harmony, which really needs to be seen in action to appreciate. Everything you are doing is either Buffing your dps or debuffing the target(s), or BOTH!
<<T2 Content>>
While dealing with Trash mobs, the above mention Power Slotting will do the trick. You role is to apply enough CC to mitigate damage to the party, debuffing mobs, gathering mobs, maintain a $#@$load of AoE dps, while occasionally using ledge knockbacks as needed. This also applies to many of the mini bosses. You can maintain control on the adds, and be in close proximity to the boss to be affected by all your AoEs. If more single target is needed, Chill Strike, Icy Rays, and Ray of Enfeeblement can be switched in, while still using Chilling Cloud.
Spider Queen, everyone is on top of the boss. This is a dps race. Your main target is the queen, while using steal time, CoI, RoE/CS, and Oppressive Force if there are adds around the queen, otherwise Ice Knife the B!$@&!
Spellplague, I slot Repel, Icy Terrain, Steal Time, Shield, and my only role with the DC, is to knock adds into the acid. During the final Phase, you leave all the adds alone to the kiter (DC/GF/GWF) and go all out on the boss.
Frozen Heart, I use Icy Rays, Chill Strike, RoE, and Steal Time. The entire party should be on the boss, while the DC/GF is kiting the adds. If it gets rough for the DC/GF, the archers should be taken out to ease his kiting. Otherwise, no other adds should be touched.
Dread Vault, again mostly single Target. The entire party is at the far corner gathering any adds and knocking them off, while CW is mostly on the boss from max range when the Thunes are despawned.
Pirate/Karrundax, mostly all out AoE dps throughout. Pirate final Boss, only the CW and DC on adds, and the rest of the party on boss. Slotting Entangling Force on tab and CoI, Icy Terrain along with Steal Time, helps apply max CC and max AP regen for constant Singularities/Oppressive force. On karrundax dragon, I go all out AoE dps, including Oppressive Force in close proximity to the dragon. My focus is the dragon, but using AoE abilities to also melt down adds close by.
Castle Never, up until the final boss, pretty much the same as other dungeons. Final Boss, 1xCW with Entangling Force on Mastery designated as the shield punter, and another CW with Repel on tab to push the adds across the gap. The second CW also pushes the red wizards towards the other CW for the singularity. When all the red wizards are dealt with. Both CWs can reslot single target.
MISC Tips:
-Armor Penetration: If you can hit the 24% without sacrificing other stats go for it. But definitely shoot for at least 1500.
- With Plague fire not stacking with itself, this is no longer the best option if there is someone else using it. Vorpal is an excellent option and scales with your stats. Lightning is a good flat dps increase, but can also attract unwanted attention.
- Buy a set of High Vizier.
- Cat/Ion stone companion. Honestly, nothing else compares.
- Use your shield knockback with tact. Be considerate to the rest of the party. If there is a wall, position yourself so that all the mobs are knocked into the wall, rather than dispersed everywhere. Ideally, you want to use Shield knockback right after casting Singularity, and then Steal Time as the mobs are coming down from the Singularity. Perfecting this cycle, not only makes everyone happy, but is a significant boost to AoE dps.
- Blue Belts. Smiting Berseker (yea I know Cryptic spells it like that), Piercing Berseker, Lethal Berseker, or Berseker belt of Respite.
- If a party member falls, don’t just rush to get them up. There is plenty of time. Wait for the cooldown of Steal Time, use it, then revive. If singularity is available, throw it off to the side away from the fallen member, then revive.
- It is better to interrupt your casting, teleport away and live, than to stand in a RED spot for an extra split second to complete your casting and risk dying or causing a wipe.
- Maintain your chills. CoI + Icy Terrain.
- Prioritizing Defense to at least 2000 (or 1000 + High Vizier set) is HIGHLY advisable.
- As an alternative and more exciting defensive option, stack 10% Life Steal.
Recommended threads for theocrafting and CW facts:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?410391-Testing-At-Will-Powers pfft2 At-Wills theocrafting
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?385321-Grimah-s-Comprehensive-Wizard-guide grimah's guide
https://www.desmos.com/calculator/3dqpvhuavj desmos comprehensive stats graph
<UPDATE> 9/16/2013
I haven't been playing NW for a at least a week now and it doesn't look like I will be returning to it any time soon. I just wanted to mention that so people don't think I am ignoring their questions. There are plenty of knowledgeable people who follow this thread and I am sure they will continue to provide valuable info. Thank you all and good luck.
This spec is now updated to reflect the changes in the Module 1 Balancing update of 8-22-2013. The original spec, is still perfectly fine with respect to the changes in the Module 1 Balancing update. But I just feel these changes make it a little more efficient. If nothing else, it adds a new flavor to the mix.
What this thread is NOT about:
- A Guide, certainly not a leveling guide. In fact, I dont advise new CWs to follow this spec while leveling up since you need practically all the points feated in order for everything to come together nicely. Also the playstyle is more suited for T2 dungeon runs.
- An explanation of every Power/Feat. I believe every new CW should experiment with as many Powers/feats as possible before committing to one spec/playstyle.
- A criticism of other Guides/builds/specs/rants/or other condescending/ego boosting threads. I understand that there are different playstyles, and what may seem like a perfect fit for me may not be for someone else.
The Spec:
http://nwcalc.com/cw?b=m1b:4yqm4:b8i4,13n1i50:6u000:bz0u1:b0000&h=0
(UPDATED POINTS ALLOCATION)
The above allocation of feat points reflects my most recent respec as of 8-24-2013
- Elemental Empowerment no longer seems worth it now that Shield is very situational and is replaced with Sudden Storm.
- Sudden Storm with just over 6sec CD, is proving to be quite good. Your focus, using your chills/stuns/dailies is to place as many mobs as possible right in front of you to maximize Sudden Storm damage.
- The net result of this tweak is higher AoE damage with good AP regen. Full AP bar in 22-25sec with 3.2k Recovery
Powers Slotted:
<Main At-Will> Chilling Could
<2nd At-Will> Storm Pillar (updated: 8-22-2013)
<2nd At-Will> Ray of Frost (for PVP)
<Class Feature1> Storm Spell
<Class Feature2> Chilling Presence
For 90% of the content
Conduit of Ice (On Mastery)
Icy Terrain
Steal Time
Sudden Storm (updated 8-24-13)
The above setup is for Trash encounters, plus the majority of the mini bosses. Other powers I will mention for specific Boss Fights below.
For Single Target
Conduit of Ice (On Mastery)
Chill Strike
Ray of Enfeeblemt
Steal Time (in case you get jumped by adds)
The above is for situations where you won't be dealing with adds and your main focus is the boss. (e.i. CN Draco after bugging all the red wizards)
Ability Scores
I personally prefer stacking INT+CHA
Build Rational:
I do not buy the argument that CWs are just for "Controlling" adds. To me that's a lazy mentality. While throwing adds off ledges speeds up a run, it also comes with a lot of headache. Mobs can drag other adds when accidentally knocked away. Mobs can and do respawn. If someone in the party disconnects, or when a camp fire is bugged and you are taken back to the beginning of the dungeon, you need to not only deal with the respawns, but also require the rest of the party to run all the way back to help. TRs can and do often get knocked off.
I am not saying that we shouldn't use ledges to our advantage, but in many situations, it is far smoother and less risky to just burn the adds down. You also make GFs/GWFs feel like they are contributing in the run :P (j/k)
With that mentality, this spec does the following in an extremely efficient way:
- maximize AoE damage, while still doing excellent single target dps
- maintain maximum CC, and not just in the form of Singularities.
- Constantly debuffing mobs for the entire group.
<<<CHILLING CLOUD>>>
With this spec Chilling Cloud contribute to a significant boost to dps indirectly and to a lesser degree indirectly, by adding chill stacks, proccing feats/dots, while maintain AoE dps. Just look at the feats and see how Chilling Cloud synergizes with just about everything.
(Updade: 8-16-2013) Now that I also added Storm Pillar to the mix, it makes things a little more exciting. The best timing for Storm Pillar is right after you throw a Singularity up. Also when surrounded by adds and the encounters are on Cooldown, it is good to do a full charged Storm Pillar ontop of yourself, followed by Steal Time. It goes without saying that any moment of downtime should be spent charging Storm Pillar to generate out of combat AP.
(Updated 8-24-13) Storm Pillar got somewhat of a nerf, for god knows why. Only the main hit is critting and procing Spell Storm. Regardless, it is still a nice filler to get an extra 10% damage for 6 seconds. If and when they return Storm Pillar to its original state, or even better buff it, you could use it more often.
This is just a beautiful AoE harmony, which really needs to be seen in action to appreciate. Everything you are doing is either Buffing your dps or debuffing the target(s), or BOTH!
<<T2 Content>>
While dealing with Trash mobs, the above mention Power Slotting will do the trick. You role is to apply enough CC to mitigate damage to the party, debuffing mobs, gathering mobs, maintain a $#@$load of AoE dps, while occasionally using ledge knockbacks as needed. This also applies to many of the mini bosses. You can maintain control on the adds, and be in close proximity to the boss to be affected by all your AoEs. If more single target is needed, Chill Strike, Icy Rays, and Ray of Enfeeblement can be switched in, while still using Chilling Cloud.
Spider Queen, everyone is on top of the boss. This is a dps race. Your main target is the queen, while using steal time, CoI, RoE/CS, and Oppressive Force if there are adds around the queen, otherwise Ice Knife the B!$@&!
Spellplague, I slot Repel, Icy Terrain, Steal Time, Shield, and my only role with the DC, is to knock adds into the acid. During the final Phase, you leave all the adds alone to the kiter (DC/GF/GWF) and go all out on the boss.
Frozen Heart, I use Icy Rays, Chill Strike, RoE, and Steal Time. The entire party should be on the boss, while the DC/GF is kiting the adds. If it gets rough for the DC/GF, the archers should be taken out to ease his kiting. Otherwise, no other adds should be touched.
Dread Vault, again mostly single Target. The entire party is at the far corner gathering any adds and knocking them off, while CW is mostly on the boss from max range when the Thunes are despawned.
Pirate/Karrundax, mostly all out AoE dps throughout. Pirate final Boss, only the CW and DC on adds, and the rest of the party on boss. Slotting Entangling Force on tab and CoI, Icy Terrain along with Steal Time, helps apply max CC and max AP regen for constant Singularities/Oppressive force. On karrundax dragon, I go all out AoE dps, including Oppressive Force in close proximity to the dragon. My focus is the dragon, but using AoE abilities to also melt down adds close by.
Castle Never, up until the final boss, pretty much the same as other dungeons. Final Boss, 1xCW with Entangling Force on Mastery designated as the shield punter, and another CW with Repel on tab to push the adds across the gap. The second CW also pushes the red wizards towards the other CW for the singularity. When all the red wizards are dealt with. Both CWs can reslot single target.
MISC Tips:
-Armor Penetration: If you can hit the 24% without sacrificing other stats go for it. But definitely shoot for at least 1500.
- With Plague fire not stacking with itself, this is no longer the best option if there is someone else using it. Vorpal is an excellent option and scales with your stats. Lightning is a good flat dps increase, but can also attract unwanted attention.
- Buy a set of High Vizier.
- Cat/Ion stone companion. Honestly, nothing else compares.
- Use your shield knockback with tact. Be considerate to the rest of the party. If there is a wall, position yourself so that all the mobs are knocked into the wall, rather than dispersed everywhere. Ideally, you want to use Shield knockback right after casting Singularity, and then Steal Time as the mobs are coming down from the Singularity. Perfecting this cycle, not only makes everyone happy, but is a significant boost to AoE dps.
- Blue Belts. Smiting Berseker (yea I know Cryptic spells it like that), Piercing Berseker, Lethal Berseker, or Berseker belt of Respite.
- If a party member falls, don’t just rush to get them up. There is plenty of time. Wait for the cooldown of Steal Time, use it, then revive. If singularity is available, throw it off to the side away from the fallen member, then revive.
- It is better to interrupt your casting, teleport away and live, than to stand in a RED spot for an extra split second to complete your casting and risk dying or causing a wipe.
- Maintain your chills. CoI + Icy Terrain.
- Prioritizing Defense to at least 2000 (or 1000 + High Vizier set) is HIGHLY advisable.
- As an alternative and more exciting defensive option, stack 10% Life Steal.
Recommended threads for theocrafting and CW facts:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?410391-Testing-At-Will-Powers pfft2 At-Wills theocrafting
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?385321-Grimah-s-Comprehensive-Wizard-guide grimah's guide
https://www.desmos.com/calculator/3dqpvhuavj desmos comprehensive stats graph
<UPDATE> 9/16/2013
I haven't been playing NW for a at least a week now and it doesn't look like I will be returning to it any time soon. I just wanted to mention that so people don't think I am ignoring their questions. There are plenty of knowledgeable people who follow this thread and I am sure they will continue to provide valuable info. Thank you all and good luck.
Check out my personal Nerf Proof T2 Thaumaturge Build.
Post edited by copticone on
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Feats for the reading impaired like myself
1) Thanks for the assist. I tried Linking this, but for some reason I had issues.
2) Definitely thanks for the bump!
I do question the Vizier set (though I will attempt to buy a dirt cheap set, just in case too!). The added defense is nice but not necessary, and the debuff is redundant. If you have plaguefire and use CoI debuff that is more than sufficient. I think the nerfed Shadow Weavers 30% crit severity is still very nice without running Eye of the Storm.
I don't enchant Power. So whatever comes with the gear is good enough for me. That may or may not change after the update. We will have to see how Power is getting changed.
Because I think our Primary role is "Control" and because this build gives me a lot of DPS boost, I prioritize Recovery>Crit>Power>ArP. With Renegade, ArP was the priority, but clearly not with this build.
I don't consider Chilling Presence better because with this build I focus on AoE. To get the same boost from Chilling Presence, I need to have 2 stacks of chill on all my targets. I'd rather have the constant 5% boost from Evocation ON all the time. And like I said, if you're on Single Target Duty, then probably better to switch to Eye Of The Storm.
I don't know about Post update. Is Chilling presence getting some kind of boost? I didnt see anything about it in the notes.
However the change to Chilling Cloud, which will refresh Chills on 1st/2nd hits, "MAY" give Chilling Presence some consideration.
I don't see any negative change to Chilling Cloud. In fact, it's getting an irrelevant buff. So yes, definitely will remain viable post-patch.
With regards to the Vizier's set. I disagree that the defense is not necessary. You maybe right with things being the way they are now, but post-patch it will become very important. The DC's Astral Shield will have a shorter duration. So unless you will run with 2 DCs, which I never do, there will be many situations where you are taking damage without Astral Shield under you. Furthermore, Aggro/threat is changing. Now a good chunk of a DC's aggro is being distributed among the whole party, so again, we will be taking quite a few more hits. Finally, Defense, at our low numbers, gives us very good returns per points. It scales very nicely between 1000-2000.
With regards to the set's debuff, you're somewhat correct. But remember the limitation of CoI. But again with the coming changes, maybe another enchant would prove more useful. We might need some Holy Avenger, or Lifedrinker. Also this gives you the option to go Vorpal as well and get your severity that way instead of the Shadow Set.
But you are right. I am not saying it is far superior or the best choice. I think it just fits my playstyle better.
For numbers game, (crit dmg not included) I did a little testing on the dummies. MM does about 1.5 -2.5 dmg on single targets, while CC does 1-2, plus a DOT of ard 0.15.
But on 2 targets, CC does about equivalent dmg to MM, 1-2 on the main target, and ard 0.5 for the aoe target. Both have DOT that give ard 0.15-0.25 dmg per target. So total about 1.8-2.7
Consider also the chill added, and debuff. It does not have much use for the cw, but I think it helps the tank and cleric maybe.
Couldn't test more targets on the dummies since the aoe is small, and only can hit two at a time- but if in a party, and the tank is surrounded by mobs, the dmg should go up, esp with the feat frozen power transfer, which supposedly gives 5% dmg boost per target hit. Together with bitter cold, this is minimum of extra 10% consistantly. Up to 40%, if you manage to hit 7 targets, maybe after using singularity. Plus whatever other supporting feats/ buffs.
Thank you for the confirmation. I just humbly disagree with your initial statement about it not being a dps build. If you meant that it is not a Single Target/Boss dps build, then yes you are right. But this is definitely an AoE insane dps build. I sometimes run with another Renegade in full Shadow Weaver and currently even a better Orb, and still with this build I am ahead throughout the entire run. I myself was running Renegade for the last 2 months, and even without the upcoming nerfs, I do more dps with this build given my playstyle.
Just getting a good feel for this build, and playing with it for some time, you begin to develop a rotation that takes advantage of all the Buff boosting feats, and that's when you start seeing huge numbers.
Yea I had meant after the update on 20th and based on current state of preview shard. (Not saying your wrong, just thinking here.) With being able to stack chill stacks on everything and with Chilling Cloud refreshing them as well. As well with last time I checked Evocation was still being picky on what it effected. That it would 1, be easier to keep full stacks on everything, and 2, the damage bonus would effect everything besides for just the select few.
No Specific allocation, but INT/CHA>WIS.
Actually I would probably throw the 3 points in Prestidigitation. It's like giving everyone in the group a couple of Enchants. Nothing amazing, but I think it beats an extra 600hp or 0.3 sec avg. cooldown reduction.
Are you saying you've tested Indomitable with Ioun Stone of Allure and/or Cat and it grants you the buffs?
No I meant with the changes coming in the next update where they are giving combat companions a HUGE buff to their damage. I figured if the buff ends up being something decent, one can put these enchants on a Striker companion for a decent boost when running Foundry or anything Solo. It's really just for variety's sake. They are currently around 100AD, so no huge investment risk lol.
Thanks for this--I have been thinking about trying to formulate a build similar to this, and I think you've done all the work for me.
Quick question related to gearing on this. Plague Fire always seems to be the weapon enchant of choice. I do not understand why (or if) this is preferable to the Flaming enchant? Is the defense debuff more significant than the extra damage the other enchant offers?
The damage caused directly from plague fire is nothing to brag about it. The main reason why Plague Fire is better for any class that does the majority of its damage as AoE is the debuff, and particularly good for CWs is the DoT, which procs Storm Spell.
Much obliged for the response. Still not sure I understand the advantage of Plague Fire over Flaming. I'm assuming parses indicate the defense debuff is better than the extra damage Flaming provides (both initial hit and dot).
I have played with this a bit and find one thing I don't like--AP generation is significantly less than my previous build, due in large part to the loss of Controlling Action and Critical Power (and crit chance, but that's on me, not the build). My previous Thaumaturge build resulted in full AP after cycling Arcane Singularity, Shield Burst, and Steal Time or got very close; now my AP is barely half after the same rotation. On the other hand, I am significantly less squishy; this is probably due to switching from Focal Magi set to Magelord.
My Power is way up and crit is way down, not good according to the theory crafters, I know; I think in my case, until I can afford High Vizier or Shadow set, Eye of the Storm may be a better choice for me over Evocation.
Well the obvious answer is that the plague fire debuff helps the entire party. If you are just looking for the most damage proc on a weapon enchant, then why not Lightning?
Yea I think it may have something to do with your stats, rotation and such. I personally don't have any issues with AP regen. And in Boss fights where it is crucial, slotting Entangling Force in Mastery is more than enough to keep singularity up pretty much back to back.
I find Learned Spellcaster to be very poor. It's a small percentage of another small percentage, which is basically nothing.
I did just that last night and AP generation was better. Thank-you for posting this solid build and for the feedback!
No problem. Just remember, getting as close as possible to the mobs is key to generating faster AP. I see many CWs who spend at half the time in battle at range. You really need to pretend you are a GWF with a slightly longer reach. With Steel Time and Shield not having a max number of targets, you want to make sure you are in range of all the mobs. With experience and knowing the different types of mobs, you will learn that you dont need to teleport out of every single Red AoE under your feet. With certain mobs you can just stand there and pretend they dont exit, knowing that Astral Shield and the heals are enough to counter the damage you take.
If you time your singularity/Shield + Steel time as they are coming down perfectly, this build does crazy AoE damage because of the stacked mobs that are being hit by your chilling cloud and other powers.
According to the wording of the tooltip that's what it seems to do at first glance, it gives a percentage of your own int dmg ... but I have readed on this same forum from other posters that after the "fixing" of the feat it translates to a 5% dmg increase, as having 5 more int ... Maybe i misreaded, what is its real behavior in any case?
If this is how it's going to change, then it will be a must have for ANY spec. Hopefully you're right.
PvP is about burst. With this build Snap Freeze along, will give your Tabbed Icy Rays, or slotted Chill Strike a big boost. Ray of Enfeeblement + Icy Knife works very well regardless of spec. So you are not gimping yourself in PvP if that is what you are asking.