cyd3lMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
Also this thread holy **** man. Its a video game. You want to RP then go play actual D&D. The people who care about the hardcore RP you're asking for are going to make up a tiny % of the player-base and I doubt they are the target audience for this game. After all, this prime purpose of this game is to make money.
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shadowycanMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
And whining on the forums is totally imaginative and creative and worldly. Sounds like you're just angry you can't play the very specific character notion you've latched onto, and lack the imagination and creativity to work with what's available.
Ad hominum.
It should have been obvious that additional powers were highly unlikely, and that each class's theme is specific by design.
They should never have associated this game with D&D and Wizards of the Coast should take its license back, in my opinion for the misrepresentation that it had anything to do with the franchise.
I don't know what you're talking about.
Accepted.
They haven't "half-stepped". They've offered 5 full very differentiated classes, by modern MMO standards. You are applying expectations formed by entirely different types of games.
No, the computer games I compare against for their achievement at being true to D&D are computerized D&D games, some of them MMO, many of them playable online in one way or another. This game should never have been associated with D&D. It is not D&D. It is not even D&D themed unless one is parochial and myopic.
Every single power looks quite different from the others. Much moreso than, say, ***'s animations. I can't account for your apparent blindness to this.
I have seen in one game where occasionally one of the spells would glitch and consistently use the animation of a specific other spell. Other than that, I have never seen fireball look like magic missile, or flame strike look like incendiary cloud, or ice dagger look like ray of frost, or acid splash look like Melph's magic missile, or sleep look like acid fog, or Bigby's crushing hand look like chain lightning, etc., etc., etc.
It most certainly has an animation. It also most certainly has an effect. I don't know what you're talking about.
No, Ray of Frost in this game has neither an animation nor an effect. It is both a waste of keybinds and a forced waste of a point in development. It does nothing, it effects nothing, it controls nothing, it displays nothing, it damages nothing, - I'm wrong: my character makes a sudden stop and his hands glow for a nanosecond and then - Nothing...
I long ago in this thread stated that Neverwinter has no mechanics relation to 4E.
Then once again, the game should have no association whatsoever with D&D and its license to be marketed as such should be removed by WotC. All names of NPCs and places in the game should be immediately changed to avoid infringement.
They said no such thing.
Their saying it is one of several reasons I distanced myself from the game in order to give it time to hang itself.
All MMOs lack the "very essence" of PnP. Without a live DM, an MMO is fundamentally not a roleplaying game in terms of anything but theme and a few borrowed game mechanics.
This would be incorrect. Dragon Age Origins, and certain other games by the same company, have made massive in-roads on RP without needing a live DM. But the essence of PnP was never the referee, it was the player - from the first time a psychologist started having clients identify themselves as a square, triangle, or circle, encounter circumstances, describe their response, and then dice got added to randomize outcome. The focus and essence began with role play and expression of the individual.
First, you are entirely incorrect. Tabletop and Pen and Paper are interchangeable terms for RPGs.
Second, while we're being stupidly pedantic, how many people do you think play D&D with pens?
Second, Pen is short for pencil. First, All Missourians are US Citizens but not all US Citizens are Missourians. Some D&D is currently played with tabletop mechanics but Role Playing Games are not dependent upon them. Neither all of D&D nor all RPGs use tabletop. The two terms are not interchangeable.
What I stated is a natural state of affairs of all MMOs. Including ***. Even with all it's vaunted diversity, people are expected to abide by certain specific builds and spell choices.
Sorry you don't like MMO communities, I guess, but them's the breaks. This doesn't have anything to do with Neverwinter specifically.
It has everything to do with Neverwinter, if they do not choose to be better - and so far they choose to be worse than other optional systems, not naming any specifically.
So you're saying that this is you own pet setting stuff you made up, ...
No, I didn't. And while everyone should have their mind closed enough to keep something in it, it is sometimes a good thing to allow in fresh air and a little light. Because this game was advertised as being D&D, and it has Nothing to do with it, I feel defrauded. I feel I helped them perpetrate a fraud on every friend I invited to the game. Because this game does not have what is a D&D game, does not contain the D&D races, does not have the D&D classes, those classes do not have the Powers and Skills they should have in a D&D game, because the advertising of this game as D&D was in my opinion and experience (as someone degreed in Communications Theory/Human Relations) a lie.
I said no such thing. I said their magic isn't derived from those things. So a Wizard's personality or appearance reflecting their choice of spells is not normal D&D. If you want to create a character where that's true, sure, whatever, have at it, but Neverwinter is based on official D&D lore.
But provides 3% of the powers, materials, skills, appearance options, classes, races, deities, etc. to make that possible. Here, we are going to play a game in Old Europe. We will offer you Viking as a character class, but sorry - no axes. You will have to be a Greek (because well the Dorians are close enough right?). And as a deity we give you Vodun, that can cover the Germanics - Frankish, German - they are all the same right?
Look, I'd like to see more cosmetic options as well, but it's not the game ruining problem you make it out to be.
If we want to play a game where we can be broke, unsuccessful, and look bad we can walk out our front door. Why would we want to play an MMO to effect that kind of reality? (Well, there are doctors for those of you who like being treated that way.)
They're not really a good choice for anything. Cleric is least bad I guess.
Sadly, here we agree. The Half-elf has been treated as the ******* step child from their inception into the game - desirable in neither community and barely functional as their best achievement.
What do you mean they don't "support" cleric? Human is a great choice for Cleric; certainly better than Half-elf. And Wood Elf has a +WIS option, and arguably better racial features.
Humans get the feat bonus to offset the loss in attribute bonus. So, I would accept that they outmatch the half-elf as a cleric. Elves on the other hand are not supposed to get bonuses that effect this; Aasimar, but not elves. So, again, they are not following the D&D lore.
Be daring, be different, be impractical, be anything that will assert integrity of purpose and imaginative vision against the play-it-safers, the creatures of the commonplace, the slaves of the ordinary. ~ Cecil Beaton
Class Skills? What are class skills - obviously they do not exist in D&D. History? Diplomacy? Arcana? Insight? You photo-shopped that. It can't be real or it would be in the game. And they need a spell book for a dozen or less spells? Why, I knew sorcerers in the old days that could manage twice that many, and they didn't even need a book. How pathetic. And a Wizard is listed as a controller right along side of a ranger - more evidence that they destroyed D&D and more reason not to buy 4E. Because the fact is either: 1) Neverwinter is not D&D, 2) 4E has utterly abandoned and destroyed the game, or 3) both.
Be daring, be different, be impractical, be anything that will assert integrity of purpose and imaginative vision against the play-it-safers, the creatures of the commonplace, the slaves of the ordinary. ~ Cecil Beaton
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cyd3lMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Class Skills? What are class skills - obviously they do not exist in D&D. History? Diplomacy? Arcana? Insight? You photo-shopped that. It can't be real or it would be in the game. And they need a spell book for a dozen or less spells? Why, I knew sorcerers in the old days that could manage twice that many, and they didn't even need a book. How pathetic. And a Wizard is listed as a controller right along side of a ranger - more evidence that they destroyed D&D and more reason not to buy 4E. Because the fact is either: 1) Neverwinter is not D&D, 2) 4E has utterly abandoned and destroyed the game, or 3) both.
Lol i didn't photoshop anything. This is a screenshot right out of the 4E character builder. Class skills are the skills you can choose as that class, so for example you can't take stealth as a wizard by default (there are feats that let you take other class skills). Yes ranger is a controller but it can ALSO be a striker. There's Controller Ranger and a striker Ranger. The whole controller / defender / striker / Leader is just the category for the type of gameplay the class excells at. Neverwinter trying to mimic D&D as best it can copied that.
You probably wouldn't like 4E as it plays much more like a video game on paper, and yes Neverwinter is based closely on 4E. Saying it's not true to D&D is wrong. It has a lot of similarities with 4E D&D. Is it true to AD&D or other older versions? Nope! But it never claimed to be either.
Kudos wudwaen -- but you are totally barking up the wrong tree.
As a few people have already mentioned in this thread (whom you have casually ignored), this isn't just an MMO translation of the paper & pencil version of any particular edition of D&D. It's independent from, but thematically based on, the material that was created many moons ago by Gary and Dave. This gives Cryptic/PWE a fairly broad license to basically do what they like, probably within reason. Who knows what the terms and conditions of the IP license that they've negotiated?
What you're trying to do though, is shoe-horn a Gandalf into a "Lotro" Lore-master, or a Darth Vader into a "SWTOR" Sith Marauder -- in other words, take pre-existing material and try and overlay it onto the game that has been thematically based on that material. It simply doesn't work. All you're going to do (which you appear to have done already) is HAMSTER yourself off and ruin any possible enjoyment you could have from the MMO game -- which must be viewed as a completely separate creative work in its own right.
I can probably understand your disappointment, since these clearly weren't the droids you were looking for. But maybe try to view Neverwinter for what it is now, and not for what you thought it might have been, and you might get something better out of it.
Kudos wudwaen -- but you are totally barking up the wrong tree.
As a few people have already mentioned in this thread (whom you have casually ignored), this isn't just an MMO translation of the paper & pencil version of any particular edition of D&D. It's independent from, but thematically based on, the material that was created many moons ago by Gary and Dave. This gives Cryptic/PWE a fairly broad license to basically do what they like, probably within reason. Who knows what the terms and conditions of the IP license that they've negotiated?
What you're trying to do though, is shoe-horn a Gandalf into a "Lotro" Lore-master, or a Darth Vader into a "SWTOR" Sith Marauder -- in other words, take pre-existing material and try and overlay it onto the game that has been thematically based on that material. It simply doesn't work. All you're going to do (which you appear to have done already) is HAMSTER yourself off and ruin any possible enjoyment you could have from the MMO game -- which must be viewed as a completely separate creative work in its own right.
I can probably understand your disappointment, since these clearly weren't the droids you were looking for. But maybe try to view Neverwinter for what it is now, and not for what you thought it might have been, and you might get something better out of it.
Lol i didn't photoshop anything. This is a screenshot right out of the 4E character builder. Class skills are the skills you can choose as that class, so for example you can't take stealth as a wizard by default (there are feats that let you take other class skills). Yes ranger is a controller but it can ALSO be a striker. There's Controller Ranger and a striker Ranger. The whole controller / defender / striker / Leader is just the category for the type of gameplay the class excells at. Neverwinter trying to mimic D&D as best it can copied that.
Sorry, my facetiousness key appears to be stuck in the off position. I have played Chainmail, Eldritch Wizardry, Basic D&D (1977), AD&D (when it still had the Cthulhu and Melnibonean mythos), skipped 2.0 while I was serving overseas, and have the full set of 3.5. I know what skills are.
You probably wouldn't like 4E as it plays much more like a video game on paper, and yes Neverwinter is based closely on 4E. Saying it's not true to D&D is wrong. It has a lot of similarities with 4E D&D. Is it true to AD&D or other older versions? Nope! But it never claimed to be either.
You are correct, and I plan on calling WotC today and letting them know that our relationship is done. 4E ends any consideration of my ever purchasing their products again, and the limitations placed in Neverwinter prove all my expectations of the destruction of the game to be true.
What you're trying to do though, is shoe-horn a Gandalf into a "Lotro" Lore-master, or a Darth Vader into a "SWTOR" Sith Marauder -- in other words, take pre-existing material and try and overlay it onto the game that has been thematically based on that material. It simply doesn't work. All you're going to do (which you appear to have done already) is HAMSTER yourself off and ruin any possible enjoyment you could have from the MMO game -- which must be viewed as a completely separate creative work in its own right.
Actually, that is not what I am attempting to do. I am attempting to protect the opportunity of expression for the players - and not just myself.
I can probably understand your disappointment, since these clearly weren't the droids you were looking for.
Subtle, since those were the droids for which he was looking. I have always found it amusing that just as faith is the assurance of things hoped for anger is the sum of fears realized. Both 4.0 and 25 levels on a disatisfactory character with no hope of it being capable of anything entertaining, having wasted the equivalent of half a months groceries on just the Founder's Pack, before release - I can accept that my concerns have been realized. I have been expecting something like this horrid mess since 4.0 was printed and 3.5 ceased to be supported by WotC. I have no interest in Neverwinter's dozens of life-controlling grindfests, nor in this PnP version of RP which is a major step backward in mechanics, resulting in severely controlling limits on storytelling and characterization.
Be daring, be different, be impractical, be anything that will assert integrity of purpose and imaginative vision against the play-it-safers, the creatures of the commonplace, the slaves of the ordinary. ~ Cecil Beaton
How do the system rules affect storytelling and characterisation? Surely that is a function of your DM, and the way that you play your character?
Rules do limit characters in the mechanical sense (for example your level 1 barbarian can't do all the things that Conan could), but I don't know of any systems that limit the way you roleplay the actual character of your character, other than alignment restrictions.
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shadowycanMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
No, Ray of Frost in this game has neither an animation nor an effect. It is both a waste of keybinds and a forced waste of a point in development. It does nothing, it effects nothing, it controls nothing, it displays nothing, it damages nothing, - I'm wrong: my character makes a sudden stop and his hands glow for a nanosecond and then - Nothing...
Aim at target, hold right mouse button down. It deals damage. Eventually the victim will turn into a popsicle for a second or two.
But provides 3% of the powers, materials, skills, appearance options, classes, races, deities, etc. to make that possible. Here, we are going to play a game in Old Europe. We will offer you Viking as a character class, but sorry - no axes. You will have to be a Greek (because well the Dorians are close enough right?). And as a deity we give you Vodun, that can cover the Germanics - Frankish, German - they are all the same right?
This requires those races to be modeled. Then repeatedly modeled so as that nothing clips through any items. We can disregard Tieflings, because, well. They have horns and tails. Those are always going to clip through everything. Not only that, but they need to create those animations and all that too. Again, this is 4e. Not 3.5e. Also, do you know how hard it would be to create every conceivable possibility in facial and bodily variation of any possible human being possible? I'd say what we can do now is good enough.
If we want to play a game where we can be broke, unsuccessful, and look bad we can walk out our front door. Why would we want to play an MMO to effect that kind of reality? (Well, there are doctors for those of you who like being treated that way.)
There's an RPG that does just that, actually. Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay. One of the rules is to throw the book at rules lawyers.
Humans get the feat bonus to offset the loss in attribute bonus. So, I would accept that they outmatch the half-elf as a cleric. Elves on the other hand are not supposed to get bonuses that effect this; Aasimar, but not elves. So, again, they are not following the D&D lore.
It's 4e. Aasimar are Deva in 4e. Deva have not been designed yet. As far as we know.
There isn't any other way around it. Nearly ALL of the classic D&D we once knew is gone. Whether it's because of 4th edition or this company wasn't really familiar with what Dungeons & Dragons was like prior to ...2007 or when ever 4th ed was published.
If this is what D&D is now, I am sad to say that I simply don't like D&D anymore. The franchise has lost it's flavor and most of its magic (literally and figuratively).
Still, this game is fun, and the setting is still Forgotten Realms-ish. The combat is fun, the dungeons are interesting, and I dig the graphics. Dungeons & Dragons it is not, but as a video game it totally works - except the 46 forms of currency, each of which can only buy a few pieces of gear that are quickly outgrown...who the hell came up with this idea and who consented to putting this in the game?
Magic, wizards, spells - gone, all gone. So are rogue/thief skills for that matter.
I am weeping for the one responsible for trashing Gygax & Arneson's hard work, because that poor soul has sold out.
I will step lightly here, as I have been an edition warrior on WotC's site, and don't need to get to it here too, but IMO, 3.x was the very best D&D there has ever been. Again IMO, it had the right balance of being able to do literally anything, and rules to back it up so it wasn't completely nebulous. 2nd Ed nailed the "do anything" but the rules were a mess. 4E overfocused on making the machine of perfect balance, rules, and worst of all constant errata, but lost all heart as it became so static and strangled by its own systems that player imagination was choked. Again just my opinion. Much of why this game doesn't "feel" like D&D is most people remember 2nd or 3rd ed, 4E was alot different, so that coupled with the limitation in the ways Cryptic has translated it into an MMO, is why I think many folks say this isn't D&D.
Maybe I need to look through my handbook again, but I'm pretty sure there area number of spells that are just missing, period. A quick look at a reference list gives these as available powers:
Class Feature spells
Ghost Sound Wizard Cantrip
Light Wizard Cantrip
Mage Hand Wizard Cantrip
Prestidigitation Wizard Cantrip
Level 1 At-Will Spells Cloud of Daggers Wizard Attack 1
Magic Missile Wizard Attack 1
Ray of Frost Wizard Attack 1 Scorching Burst Wizard Attack 1 Thunderwave Wizard Attack 1
Level 1 Encounter Spells Burning Hands Wizard Attack 1
Chill Strike Wizard Attack 1 Force Orb Wizard Attack 1 Icy Terrain Wizard Attack 1 Ray of Enfeeblement Wizard Attack 1
This is just an example. Everything in Bold, I don't see any of it at all.
I'll name the ones you need to remove from the list of thing's that are there.
Enfeeblement, Shield, Feather fall, falling without taking damage? You can Shift(dodge) from any height to not take any damage.
Icy Terrain is there aswell.
So yes, you need to read through the wizzy spells again.
Unfortunatelly I have to add my support to those that say you're mostly noticing what is not d&d in 4th edition than on Neverwinter.
The points you wrote and nobody touched yet:
Wizards only use spellbooks as roleplay excuses to write spells in 4th edition, you cant find a spellbook and add it's spells to your book anymore. The closest to this now is a ritual spell book (which encompases spells such as Tenser's Floating Disk and other non-combat wizard magic) which wizards start knowing some but can cast any if they have the ritual written somewhere.
Spells now are powers, and to stay balanced, wizards have double the daily powers as other classes, which can be memorized (switched) after an extended rest (8 hours) for other daily power in your spellbook.
Also control wizard is one of two wizard builds suggested on the PHB(as are all other classes in Neverwinter), war wizard being the other, fireball wielding one. In the pnp game you are not bound to those builds, but to facilitate things MMO-wise, they are sticking to then in Neverwinter.
Races: Neverwinter lacks in fact only two races from player handbook: High elves and dragonborn. High elves probably gonna be added in the module 1 as it touches Feywild (Faery planes of 4th edition), along with Ranger and possibly Fey Warlock classes. Neverwinter even has one more than players handbook: half orcs are not there if I'm not mistaken.
So, sad story but true, Neverwinter is very true to d&d, it's just not the d&d we used to play anymore.
Aim at target, hold right mouse button down. It deals damage. Eventually the victim will turn into a popsicle for a second or two.
In my experience, there is no effect. The target never freezes for any length of time, no matter how many times one mashes the button at speed. There is no damage. Ray of Frost is so useless, I took it out of the slot. An empty slot is just as effective as something that does nothing.
This requires those races to be modeled. Then repeatedly modeled so as that nothing clips through any items. We can disregard Tieflings, because, well. They have horns and tails. Those are always going to clip through everything. Not only that, but they need to create those animations and all that too. Again, this is 4e. Not 3.5e. Also, do you know how hard it would be to create every conceivable possibility in facial and bodily variation of any possible human being possible? I'd say what we can do now is good enough.
Gnomes would require no additional animations, only Germanic faces, as we already have Halfling bodies. Half-Orcs from the Moonshaes, require no additional modeling. High, Moon, Sun, and Wild Elves are already modeled. Gold and Shield Dwarves are already modeled. Tieflings at the very least should have an additional skin color menu option to get to the charts for black/white, blue, green, and red - instead of just red. (As these are the known colors of the Abishai that serve Tiamat.) Eye colors should be brighter, and include yellow greens, yellows, oranges, reds, and violets (in the we can be seen glowing in the dark shadows kind of way). And yes, one of the things that is nice in STO is that Cryptic did not limit hair styles to the we're-all-on-drugs-lets-disco-some-more-to-Village-People 70s cuts nor the we-stole-mommy-and-daddy's-credit-card-so-we-could-hit-Jaleets-and-then-get-our-head-shaved-half-away-and-have-the-rest-super-glued-in-neon-colors-just-to-get-someone's-attention wannabe punk cuts of the late 1980s through the 1990s. How many hours did they spend making facial tattoos work, while slaughtering almost all of the gods out of existence?
It's 4e. Aasimar are Deva in 4e. Deva have not been designed yet. As far as we know.
Apparently neither have dragonborn, which ought to have been one of the starting races - since it is 4E.
Sorry, we spent a year paying for beta on STO before they started to get the game right. Really don't want to see that be the standard corporate model. Put out something half-stepped and then hope the public doesn't notice it's only half baked and the oven is turned down low.
Be daring, be different, be impractical, be anything that will assert integrity of purpose and imaginative vision against the play-it-safers, the creatures of the commonplace, the slaves of the ordinary. ~ Cecil Beaton
The forgotten realms gods gone is a 4th edition thing also, there is even talk that for 5th edition everything will be back into place (you noticed the Anauroch got replaced by Netheril on the map? Supposedly Anauroch is stashed on the Shadowfell - what we knew as Plane of Shadows before) since Ao would return and undo all s***. Go figure, I wont even get started about d&d future past 3.5 edition.
In my experience, there is no effect. The target never freezes for any length of time, no matter how many times one mashes the button at speed. There is no damage. Ray of Frost is so useless, I took it out of the slot. An empty slot is just as effective as something that does nothing.
To be honest, that sounds more like it could be a glitch with your mouse control. It sounds like it is registering just clicks rather than the continuous pressure required to channel the spell.
"Mashing the button at speed" won't work: the button must be held down.
The forgotten realms gods gone is a 4th edition thing also, there is even talk that for 5th edition everything will be back into place (you noticed the Anauroch got replaced by Netheril on the map? Supposedly Anauroch is stashed on the Shadowfell - what we knew as Plane of Shadows before) since Ao would return and undo all s***. Go figure, I wont even get started about d&d future past 3.5 edition.
Aren't the changes to the FR gods due to the actual history and events of the Realms, rather than the 4.0 ruleset? Certainly I don't think Eberron for example had to change anything regarding its "religious sources of power" (since the two settings have very different concepts of deities) just for 4th ed.
The forgotten realms gods gone is a 4th edition thing also, there is even talk that for 5th edition everything will be back into place (you noticed the Anauroch got replaced by Netheril on the map? Supposedly Anauroch is stashed on the Shadowfell - what we knew as Plane of Shadows before) since Ao would return and undo all s***. Go figure, I wont even get started about d&d future past 3.5 edition.
I have been following the concepts for 5.0 which might as well quit development and simply republish 3.5. What they figured out was that pleasing the programmers helped HAMSTER off a lot of people. What they didn't figure out is that in a world economy where people don't know if they can keep their homes or buy food, spending another $500.00 to $1,000.00 on books isn't going to happen. They computerized support for 4.0 while they could have sold support for 3.5 (a game people actually liked). In the mean time, going backwards isn't progressive for the game or RP. In the meantime, what I see in Neverwinter is the complacency of taking a PnP which bent over backwards to please the programmer and promoting a product that is so narrow as to be parochial and myopic.
And let me be clear:
The story is well written.
The foundry is well coordinated.
The tile sets are very pretty.
But the styles of play should Never have been forced as the primary identification of the class. There should not be any Control Wizards, Defensive Fighters, Striking Rogues, etc. (no matter how they are called. There should be wizards, fighters, rogues, etc. The way the player puts their skill bar together should demonstrate if they are going for control, dps, support, etc. The player should make the choice in the development of their character while the Devs should be there to offer options, not shackles.
Be daring, be different, be impractical, be anything that will assert integrity of purpose and imaginative vision against the play-it-safers, the creatures of the commonplace, the slaves of the ordinary. ~ Cecil Beaton
I have been following the concepts for 5.0 which might as well quit development and simply republish 3.5. What they figured out was that pleasing the programmers helped HAMSTER off a lot of people. What they didn't figure out is that in a world economy where people don't know if they can keep their homes or buy food, spending another $500.00 to $1,000.00 on books isn't going to happen. They computerized support for 4.0 while they could have sold support for 3.5 (a game people actually liked). In the mean time, going backwards isn't progressive for the game or RP. In the meantime, what I see in Neverwinter is the complacency of taking a PnP which bent over backwards to please the programmer and promoting a product that is so narrow as to be parochial and myopic.
And let me be clear:
The story is well written.
The foundry is well coordinated.
The tile sets are very pretty.
But the styles of play should Never have been forced as the primary identification of the class. There should not be any Control Wizards, Defensive Fighters, Striking Rogues, etc. (no matter how they are called. There should be wizards, fighters, rogues, etc. The way the player puts their skill bar together should demonstrate if they are going for control, dps, support, etc. The player should make the choice in the development of their character while the Devs should be there to offer options, not shackles.
Seriously, I thought they would introduce base classes and allow for that customization with paragon paths.(They still have a chance to change that)
Seriously, I thought they would introduce base classes and allow for that customization with paragon paths.(They still have a chance to change that)
Yep. I can see another Cleric class (melee type), but most of the options for Wizards and Rogues can probably be covered in Paragon paths, since their base gameplay would likely remain the same.
Yep. I can see another Cleric class (melee type), but most of the options for Wizards and Rogues can probably be covered in Paragon paths, since their base gameplay would likely remain the same.
The problem with that is the powers of the lower level CW are limited to ice. You are forced to spend points on spells that you do not ever want to use or that are useless.
Be daring, be different, be impractical, be anything that will assert integrity of purpose and imaginative vision against the play-it-safers, the creatures of the commonplace, the slaves of the ordinary. ~ Cecil Beaton
There aren't any 'useless' spells, but good point about the beginning options. You need to use some Ice spells rather than being able to sick with basic Arcane ones.
How do the system rules affect storytelling and characterization? Surely that is a function of your DM, and the way that you play your character?
Rules do limit characters in the mechanical sense (for example your level 1 barbarian can't do all the things that Conan could), but I don't know of any systems that limit the way you roleplay the actual character of your character, other than alignment restrictions.
Sorry, just found this one while reviewing the thread.
First, alignment restrictions are meaningless without RP options to both express them and maintain impact on the campaign outcome. Dragon Age Origins was the best PC game which I have played to effect such. Systemic rules also limit expression. For example, a character in White Wolf's storyteller system, if rarely, can obtain transcendence to a greater state than place where they began their story. Conversely, a character in Call of Cthulhu must either descend into madness or suffer some other horrendous end - the player enters the game knowing from the outset what results will be possible because of the mechanics.
In the MMORPG the rules of expression are defined by the opportunities which the Dev.s provide. Lack of choices: lack of ability to change one's skill bar to express type of action (AoE DPS, Spike, Control, Support, Defense, Tank), Limited options in racial appearance, and very limited options in clothing appearance. Increases in clothing options can be expected for Z credits, but increases in racial appearance (blue, green, gold, and white/black skinned tieflings, greater varieties of elves, dwarves, halflings, half-orcs, etc.) and more realistic class options (intro wizard skills being based in strict arcane development while perhaps paragon paths offer conjuration (of angels, demons, elementals, etc.), earth/crystal, fire, fortune (support buffs/debuffs), ice/water, illusion, light, mind-control/enchantment, necromancy (animation of the dead, fear and various drains - abilities and level, and/or negative energy), shadow, storm/air, etc. And the clerical fire throwing spells might at least look like divine fire (white and blue), instead of like they ripped off the wizard class.
That's incorrect. From a strictly min/maxing perspective, Humans are competitive with Tieflings
In all previous editions of D&D humans have always been superior as a race through the feat bonus options which accrue. Half-elves have always been the weakest of all races; their holding handicaps in all directions while not offering a directive handicap that would make them interesting is the reason I have never played one. A half-orc monk is both challenging and amusing, while half-elves contain all of excitement and spice of an unflavored milk-pudding.
Given the current bug with Tempest Magic being overridden by Blood Hunt, Humans are actually superior.
If it is superior because of a bug then it is not superior by intention.
Oh please, this is an MMO. If players could look like whatever they wanted, Protector's Enclave would be full of adventuring HAMSTER.
I did not suggest they provide options which would take them completely out of their ESRB rating.
What I stated above was:
Gnomes would require no additional animations, only Germanic faces, as we already have Halfling bodies. Half-Orcs from the Moonshaes, require no additional modeling. High, Moon, Sun, and Wild Elves are already modeled. Gold and Shield Dwarves are already modeled. Tieflings at the very least should have an additional skin color menu option to get to the charts for black/white, blue, green, and red - instead of just red. (As these are the known colors of the Abishai that serve Tiamat.) Eye colors should be brighter, and include yellow greens, yellows, oranges, reds, and violets (in the we can be seen glowing in the dark shadows kind of way). And yes, one of the things that is nice in STO is that Cryptic did not limit hair styles to the we're-all-on-drugs-lets-disco-some-more-to-Village-People 70s cuts nor the we-stole-mommy-and-daddy's-credit-card-so-we-could-hit-Jaleets-and-then-get-our-head-shaved-half-away-and-have-the-rest-super-glued-in-neon-colors-just-to-get-someone's-attention wannabe punk cuts of the late 1980s through the 1990s. How many hours did they spend making facial tattoos work, while slaughtering almost all of the gods out of existence?
Be daring, be different, be impractical, be anything that will assert integrity of purpose and imaginative vision against the play-it-safers, the creatures of the commonplace, the slaves of the ordinary. ~ Cecil Beaton
Sorry, just found this one while reviewing the thread.
First, alignment restrictions are meaningless without RP options to both express them and maintain impact on the campaign outcome. Dragon Age Origins was the best PC game which I have played to effect such. Systemic rules also limit expression. For example, a character in White Wolf's storyteller system, if rarely, can obtain transcendence to a greater state than place where they began their story. Conversely, a character in Call of Cthulhu must either descend into madness or suffer some other horrendous end - the player enters the game knowing from the outset what results will be possible because of the mechanics.
Sorry, that question was directed at the last sentences of the post preceding it: about the PnP version not the MMO one. I can't off the top of my head think of a character's character that could be played in a previous version, but not in 4th ed.
In the MMORPG the rules of expression are defined by the opportunities which the Dev.s provide. Lack of choices: lack of ability to change one's skill bar to express type of action (AoE DPS, Spike, Control, Support, Defense, Tank), Limited options in racial appearance, and very limited options in clothing appearance. Increases in clothing options can be expected for Z credits, but increases in racial appearance (blue, green, gold, and white/black skinned tieflings, greater varieties of elves, dwarves, halflings, half-orcs, etc.) and more realistic class options (intro wizard skills being based in strict arcane development while perhaps paragon paths offer conjuration (of angels, demons, elementals, etc.), earth/crystal, fire, fortune (support buffs/debuffs), ice/water, illusion, light, mind-control/enchantment, necromancy (animation of the dead, fear and various drains - abilities and level, and/or negative energy), shadow, storm/air, etc. And the clerical fire throwing spells might at least look like divine fire (white and blue), instead of like they ripped off the wizard class.
You can swap different powers into your ability bar for situations requiring different powersets.
As far as I know, Tieflings are universally ruddy-coloured, rather than having that level of variation. I'm not sure what additional customisation options would be required for other races: the requisite body types/skin colours etc seem to be covered. Clothing is limited, but I'm hoping for more options as the game progresses.
There are probably close to a thousand spells in 3.5 ed, plus metamagic feats or houserules allowing many different appearances of most. Additional spells should come with additional classes, but purely cosmetic options likely have a low priority.
While channelling divine power, clerical spells are Blue-white. When not channelling, they are Golden: likely due to many being sun-based.
I don't think that any share colours or appearance with the Wizard ones.
In all previous editions of D&D humans have always been superior as a race through the feat bonus options which accrue. Half-elves have always been the weakest of all races; their holding handicaps in all directions while not offering a directive handicap that would make them interesting is the reason I have never played one. A half-orc monk is both challenging and amusing, while half-elves contain all of excitement and spice of an unflavored milk-pudding.
In DDO certainly, half-elves are regarded as one of the better races. They have some interesting options for roleplaying that can make them attractive to play in PnP as well in some settings.
I think I agree almost 99%.Especially about Dragon Age:Origins. I'd subscribe to your newsletter heh. The ESRB thing though, I don't believe it applies to NW as its online only. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
All I know is the CW needs a faster casting bolt. Chill strike should have a 6 or 7 second cool down and we should be able to get it down to 3 - 3.5 seconds with good gear.
This game is designed to make as much money as possible on a day to day basis. It is not designed to be a great long term game.
I think I agree almost 99%.Especially about Dragon Age:Origins. I'd subscribe to your newsletter heh. The ESRB thing though, I don't believe it applies to NW as its online only. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
ESRB rating are for all video games and apps, online or not. See there link here.
You can swap different powers into your ability bar for situations requiring different power sets.
There isn't enough variation in the powers for changing them to have any meaning. The powers merely hold them still while one flings magic missile as fast as possible. And there is no variation, since all wizards must be control wizards. There is no choice.
As far as I know, Tieflings are universally ruddy-coloured, rather than having that level of variation.
The colors I referenced come from the very origin of what Tieflings are: children of infernal beings. Those are the colors of those beings. One of the reasons Tieflings are despised by the Dragonborn is because some or many are descended of the servants of Tiamat, who are all those colors.
In 3.5 Tieflings are described this way:
This being looks like a human, but it has a faintly disturbing demeanor about it and a wicked gleam in its eyes. Short horns sprout from its forehead.
Aside from a demeanor that many find disturbing, many tieflings are indistinguishable from humans. Others have small horns, pointed teeth, red eyes, a whiff of brimstone about tehm or even cloven feet. No two tieflings are the same.
from MM P.210
A tiefling is the descendant of a union between an infernal creature and a human.
Physical Description: Tieflings appear human at a glance, although they all possess at least one unnatural feature that reveals their infernal heritage. At the least, tieflings have a disturbing demeanor or carry a whiff of brimstone about them, but most also possess small horns, red eyes, or needle-sharp teeth. In extreme cases, a tiefling may have a barbed tail or cloven feet. No two tieflings have the same appearance.
from Races of Destiny P.107
Under 4E the horns, tail, and ruddy complexion are a part of the description, but "their eyes are solid orbs of red, black, white, silver, or gold." I certainly don't see any metallic options, nor are their eyes solid orbs. So the presentation wasn't about being authentic to 4E.
Additional spells should come with additional classes, ...
That is the problem, there shouldn't be a need for additional classes. The basic classes such as Barbarian, Bard, Cleric, Druid, Fighter, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, Sorcerer, and Wizard should be enough. The choice of build by the player should determine style of play, not style of play determine the class and destroy access to the variety of skills and powers it should have. All other 'classes' derive from the basics as prestige classes - here in the form of "Paragon Paths". And I doubt cosmetic options have a low priority since selling vanity is the mainstay for F2P games.
While channelling divine power, clerical spells are Blue-white. When not channelling, they are Golden: likely due to many being sun-based.
What I played threw orange fireballs while my wizards cannot. That is exactly and utterly wrong. :eek:
And yes, I am writing this more at the Dev.s than at any of you. There is an slight chance they might notice.
Be daring, be different, be impractical, be anything that will assert integrity of purpose and imaginative vision against the play-it-safers, the creatures of the commonplace, the slaves of the ordinary. ~ Cecil Beaton
I do somewhat agree, I know that some aspects have been stated to be coming later on, like paragon paths, more classes and races; however, even at release I would want more more more. At Least twice as many classes and races. Look at Warhammer Online, 8 races, and each race had it's own classes (yes some of those classes had similar mechanics but they were still different in a lot of ways too.) It is possible.
Now with that all said...
This is a F2P game, and asking devs and producers to put the money into developing 8-10 different races and classes prelaunch is a lot to ask sense their investment return is going to come a lot slower than a P2P.
My biggest complaint about this game is the fact that it is pretty much a P2W game, I HATE THAT HAMSTER.
Comments
They should never have associated this game with D&D and Wizards of the Coast should take its license back, in my opinion for the misrepresentation that it had anything to do with the franchise.
Accepted.
No, the computer games I compare against for their achievement at being true to D&D are computerized D&D games, some of them MMO, many of them playable online in one way or another. This game should never have been associated with D&D. It is not D&D. It is not even D&D themed unless one is parochial and myopic.
I have seen in one game where occasionally one of the spells would glitch and consistently use the animation of a specific other spell. Other than that, I have never seen fireball look like magic missile, or flame strike look like incendiary cloud, or ice dagger look like ray of frost, or acid splash look like Melph's magic missile, or sleep look like acid fog, or Bigby's crushing hand look like chain lightning, etc., etc., etc.
No, Ray of Frost in this game has neither an animation nor an effect. It is both a waste of keybinds and a forced waste of a point in development. It does nothing, it effects nothing, it controls nothing, it displays nothing, it damages nothing, - I'm wrong: my character makes a sudden stop and his hands glow for a nanosecond and then - Nothing...
Then once again, the game should have no association whatsoever with D&D and its license to be marketed as such should be removed by WotC. All names of NPCs and places in the game should be immediately changed to avoid infringement.
Their saying it is one of several reasons I distanced myself from the game in order to give it time to hang itself.
This would be incorrect. Dragon Age Origins, and certain other games by the same company, have made massive in-roads on RP without needing a live DM. But the essence of PnP was never the referee, it was the player - from the first time a psychologist started having clients identify themselves as a square, triangle, or circle, encounter circumstances, describe their response, and then dice got added to randomize outcome. The focus and essence began with role play and expression of the individual.
Second, Pen is short for pencil. First, All Missourians are US Citizens but not all US Citizens are Missourians. Some D&D is currently played with tabletop mechanics but Role Playing Games are not dependent upon them. Neither all of D&D nor all RPGs use tabletop. The two terms are not interchangeable.
It has everything to do with Neverwinter, if they do not choose to be better - and so far they choose to be worse than other optional systems, not naming any specifically.
No, I didn't. And while everyone should have their mind closed enough to keep something in it, it is sometimes a good thing to allow in fresh air and a little light. Because this game was advertised as being D&D, and it has Nothing to do with it, I feel defrauded. I feel I helped them perpetrate a fraud on every friend I invited to the game. Because this game does not have what is a D&D game, does not contain the D&D races, does not have the D&D classes, those classes do not have the Powers and Skills they should have in a D&D game, because the advertising of this game as D&D was in my opinion and experience (as someone degreed in Communications Theory/Human Relations) a lie.
But provides 3% of the powers, materials, skills, appearance options, classes, races, deities, etc. to make that possible. Here, we are going to play a game in Old Europe. We will offer you Viking as a character class, but sorry - no axes. You will have to be a Greek (because well the Dorians are close enough right?). And as a deity we give you Vodun, that can cover the Germanics - Frankish, German - they are all the same right?
If we want to play a game where we can be broke, unsuccessful, and look bad we can walk out our front door. Why would we want to play an MMO to effect that kind of reality? (Well, there are doctors for those of you who like being treated that way.)
Sadly, here we agree. The Half-elf has been treated as the ******* step child from their inception into the game - desirable in neither community and barely functional as their best achievement.
Humans get the feat bonus to offset the loss in attribute bonus. So, I would accept that they outmatch the half-elf as a cleric. Elves on the other hand are not supposed to get bonuses that effect this; Aasimar, but not elves. So, again, they are not following the D&D lore.
Lol i didn't photoshop anything. This is a screenshot right out of the 4E character builder. Class skills are the skills you can choose as that class, so for example you can't take stealth as a wizard by default (there are feats that let you take other class skills). Yes ranger is a controller but it can ALSO be a striker. There's Controller Ranger and a striker Ranger. The whole controller / defender / striker / Leader is just the category for the type of gameplay the class excells at. Neverwinter trying to mimic D&D as best it can copied that.
You probably wouldn't like 4E as it plays much more like a video game on paper, and yes Neverwinter is based closely on 4E. Saying it's not true to D&D is wrong. It has a lot of similarities with 4E D&D. Is it true to AD&D or other older versions? Nope! But it never claimed to be either.
As a few people have already mentioned in this thread (whom you have casually ignored), this isn't just an MMO translation of the paper & pencil version of any particular edition of D&D. It's independent from, but thematically based on, the material that was created many moons ago by Gary and Dave. This gives Cryptic/PWE a fairly broad license to basically do what they like, probably within reason. Who knows what the terms and conditions of the IP license that they've negotiated?
What you're trying to do though, is shoe-horn a Gandalf into a "Lotro" Lore-master, or a Darth Vader into a "SWTOR" Sith Marauder -- in other words, take pre-existing material and try and overlay it onto the game that has been thematically based on that material. It simply doesn't work. All you're going to do (which you appear to have done already) is HAMSTER yourself off and ruin any possible enjoyment you could have from the MMO game -- which must be viewed as a completely separate creative work in its own right.
I can probably understand your disappointment, since these clearly weren't the droids you were looking for. But maybe try to view Neverwinter for what it is now, and not for what you thought it might have been, and you might get something better out of it.
Yup.
I agree.
You are correct, and I plan on calling WotC today and letting them know that our relationship is done. 4E ends any consideration of my ever purchasing their products again, and the limitations placed in Neverwinter prove all my expectations of the destruction of the game to be true.
Actually, that is not what I am attempting to do. I am attempting to protect the opportunity of expression for the players - and not just myself.
Subtle, since those were the droids for which he was looking. I have always found it amusing that just as faith is the assurance of things hoped for anger is the sum of fears realized. Both 4.0 and 25 levels on a disatisfactory character with no hope of it being capable of anything entertaining, having wasted the equivalent of half a months groceries on just the Founder's Pack, before release - I can accept that my concerns have been realized. I have been expecting something like this horrid mess since 4.0 was printed and 3.5 ceased to be supported by WotC. I have no interest in Neverwinter's dozens of life-controlling grindfests, nor in this PnP version of RP which is a major step backward in mechanics, resulting in severely controlling limits on storytelling and characterization.
Rules do limit characters in the mechanical sense (for example your level 1 barbarian can't do all the things that Conan could), but I don't know of any systems that limit the way you roleplay the actual character of your character, other than alignment restrictions.
This requires those races to be modeled. Then repeatedly modeled so as that nothing clips through any items. We can disregard Tieflings, because, well. They have horns and tails. Those are always going to clip through everything. Not only that, but they need to create those animations and all that too. Again, this is 4e. Not 3.5e. Also, do you know how hard it would be to create every conceivable possibility in facial and bodily variation of any possible human being possible? I'd say what we can do now is good enough.
There's an RPG that does just that, actually. Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay. One of the rules is to throw the book at rules lawyers.
It's 4e. Aasimar are Deva in 4e. Deva have not been designed yet. As far as we know.
Yes, but the animation for the spell tends to give out so you cant see the spell animation, however I always see the person freeze.
I will step lightly here, as I have been an edition warrior on WotC's site, and don't need to get to it here too, but IMO, 3.x was the very best D&D there has ever been. Again IMO, it had the right balance of being able to do literally anything, and rules to back it up so it wasn't completely nebulous. 2nd Ed nailed the "do anything" but the rules were a mess. 4E overfocused on making the machine of perfect balance, rules, and worst of all constant errata, but lost all heart as it became so static and strangled by its own systems that player imagination was choked. Again just my opinion. Much of why this game doesn't "feel" like D&D is most people remember 2nd or 3rd ed, 4E was alot different, so that coupled with the limitation in the ways Cryptic has translated it into an MMO, is why I think many folks say this isn't D&D.
I'll name the ones you need to remove from the list of thing's that are there.
Enfeeblement, Shield, Feather fall, falling without taking damage? You can Shift(dodge) from any height to not take any damage.
Icy Terrain is there aswell.
So yes, you need to read through the wizzy spells again.
The points you wrote and nobody touched yet:
Wizards only use spellbooks as roleplay excuses to write spells in 4th edition, you cant find a spellbook and add it's spells to your book anymore. The closest to this now is a ritual spell book (which encompases spells such as Tenser's Floating Disk and other non-combat wizard magic) which wizards start knowing some but can cast any if they have the ritual written somewhere.
Spells now are powers, and to stay balanced, wizards have double the daily powers as other classes, which can be memorized (switched) after an extended rest (8 hours) for other daily power in your spellbook.
Also control wizard is one of two wizard builds suggested on the PHB(as are all other classes in Neverwinter), war wizard being the other, fireball wielding one. In the pnp game you are not bound to those builds, but to facilitate things MMO-wise, they are sticking to then in Neverwinter.
Races: Neverwinter lacks in fact only two races from player handbook: High elves and dragonborn. High elves probably gonna be added in the module 1 as it touches Feywild (Faery planes of 4th edition), along with Ranger and possibly Fey Warlock classes. Neverwinter even has one more than players handbook: half orcs are not there if I'm not mistaken.
So, sad story but true, Neverwinter is very true to d&d, it's just not the d&d we used to play anymore.
Gnomes would require no additional animations, only Germanic faces, as we already have Halfling bodies. Half-Orcs from the Moonshaes, require no additional modeling. High, Moon, Sun, and Wild Elves are already modeled. Gold and Shield Dwarves are already modeled. Tieflings at the very least should have an additional skin color menu option to get to the charts for black/white, blue, green, and red - instead of just red. (As these are the known colors of the Abishai that serve Tiamat.) Eye colors should be brighter, and include yellow greens, yellows, oranges, reds, and violets (in the we can be seen glowing in the dark shadows kind of way). And yes, one of the things that is nice in STO is that Cryptic did not limit hair styles to the we're-all-on-drugs-lets-disco-some-more-to-Village-People 70s cuts nor the we-stole-mommy-and-daddy's-credit-card-so-we-could-hit-Jaleets-and-then-get-our-head-shaved-half-away-and-have-the-rest-super-glued-in-neon-colors-just-to-get-someone's-attention wannabe punk cuts of the late 1980s through the 1990s. How many hours did they spend making facial tattoos work, while slaughtering almost all of the gods out of existence?
Apparently neither have dragonborn, which ought to have been one of the starting races - since it is 4E.
Sorry, we spent a year paying for beta on STO before they started to get the game right. Really don't want to see that be the standard corporate model. Put out something half-stepped and then hope the public doesn't notice it's only half baked and the oven is turned down low.
"Mashing the button at speed" won't work: the button must be held down.
Aren't the changes to the FR gods due to the actual history and events of the Realms, rather than the 4.0 ruleset? Certainly I don't think Eberron for example had to change anything regarding its "religious sources of power" (since the two settings have very different concepts of deities) just for 4th ed.
And let me be clear:
- The story is well written.
- The foundry is well coordinated.
- The tile sets are very pretty.
But the styles of play should Never have been forced as the primary identification of the class. There should not be any Control Wizards, Defensive Fighters, Striking Rogues, etc. (no matter how they are called. There should be wizards, fighters, rogues, etc. The way the player puts their skill bar together should demonstrate if they are going for control, dps, support, etc. The player should make the choice in the development of their character while the Devs should be there to offer options, not shackles.Seriously, I thought they would introduce base classes and allow for that customization with paragon paths.(They still have a chance to change that)
That sounds like that belongs in Tech Support more than here.
That's incorrect. From a strictly min/maxing perspective, Humans are competitive with Tieflings.
Given the current bug with Tempest Magic being overridden by Blood Hunt, Humans are actually superior.
Oh please, this is an MMO. If players could look like whatever they wanted, Protector's Enclave would be full of adventuring HAMSTER.
Sorry, just found this one while reviewing the thread.
First, alignment restrictions are meaningless without RP options to both express them and maintain impact on the campaign outcome. Dragon Age Origins was the best PC game which I have played to effect such. Systemic rules also limit expression. For example, a character in White Wolf's storyteller system, if rarely, can obtain transcendence to a greater state than place where they began their story. Conversely, a character in Call of Cthulhu must either descend into madness or suffer some other horrendous end - the player enters the game knowing from the outset what results will be possible because of the mechanics.
In the MMORPG the rules of expression are defined by the opportunities which the Dev.s provide. Lack of choices: lack of ability to change one's skill bar to express type of action (AoE DPS, Spike, Control, Support, Defense, Tank), Limited options in racial appearance, and very limited options in clothing appearance. Increases in clothing options can be expected for Z credits, but increases in racial appearance (blue, green, gold, and white/black skinned tieflings, greater varieties of elves, dwarves, halflings, half-orcs, etc.) and more realistic class options (intro wizard skills being based in strict arcane development while perhaps paragon paths offer conjuration (of angels, demons, elementals, etc.), earth/crystal, fire, fortune (support buffs/debuffs), ice/water, illusion, light, mind-control/enchantment, necromancy (animation of the dead, fear and various drains - abilities and level, and/or negative energy), shadow, storm/air, etc. And the clerical fire throwing spells might at least look like divine fire (white and blue), instead of like they ripped off the wizard class.
In all previous editions of D&D humans have always been superior as a race through the feat bonus options which accrue. Half-elves have always been the weakest of all races; their holding handicaps in all directions while not offering a directive handicap that would make them interesting is the reason I have never played one. A half-orc monk is both challenging and amusing, while half-elves contain all of excitement and spice of an unflavored milk-pudding.
If it is superior because of a bug then it is not superior by intention.
I did not suggest they provide options which would take them completely out of their ESRB rating.
What I stated above was:
You can swap different powers into your ability bar for situations requiring different powersets.
As far as I know, Tieflings are universally ruddy-coloured, rather than having that level of variation. I'm not sure what additional customisation options would be required for other races: the requisite body types/skin colours etc seem to be covered. Clothing is limited, but I'm hoping for more options as the game progresses.
There are probably close to a thousand spells in 3.5 ed, plus metamagic feats or houserules allowing many different appearances of most. Additional spells should come with additional classes, but purely cosmetic options likely have a low priority.
While channelling divine power, clerical spells are Blue-white. When not channelling, they are Golden: likely due to many being sun-based.
I don't think that any share colours or appearance with the Wizard ones.
In DDO certainly, half-elves are regarded as one of the better races. They have some interesting options for roleplaying that can make them attractive to play in PnP as well in some settings.
There isn't enough variation in the powers for changing them to have any meaning. The powers merely hold them still while one flings magic missile as fast as possible. And there is no variation, since all wizards must be control wizards. There is no choice.
The colors I referenced come from the very origin of what Tieflings are: children of infernal beings. Those are the colors of those beings. One of the reasons Tieflings are despised by the Dragonborn is because some or many are descended of the servants of Tiamat, who are all those colors.
In 3.5 Tieflings are described this way:
Under 4E the horns, tail, and ruddy complexion are a part of the description, but "their eyes are solid orbs of red, black, white, silver, or gold." I certainly don't see any metallic options, nor are their eyes solid orbs. So the presentation wasn't about being authentic to 4E.
3.5E, superior in all respects to 4E, was abandoned for this limited choke-hold programmers dream presentation. :rolleyes:
That is the problem, there shouldn't be a need for additional classes. The basic classes such as Barbarian, Bard, Cleric, Druid, Fighter, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, Sorcerer, and Wizard should be enough. The choice of build by the player should determine style of play, not style of play determine the class and destroy access to the variety of skills and powers it should have. All other 'classes' derive from the basics as prestige classes - here in the form of "Paragon Paths". And I doubt cosmetic options have a low priority since selling vanity is the mainstay for F2P games.
What I played threw orange fireballs while my wizards cannot. That is exactly and utterly wrong. :eek:
And yes, I am writing this more at the Dev.s than at any of you. There is an slight chance they might notice.
Now with that all said...
This is a F2P game, and asking devs and producers to put the money into developing 8-10 different races and classes prelaunch is a lot to ask sense their investment return is going to come a lot slower than a P2P.
My biggest complaint about this game is the fact that it is pretty much a P2W game, I HATE THAT HAMSTER.