Heh. I think you missed the point too. Throwing random people together (within a series of rules) IS the point of this queue system.
*SNIP*
Your missing the forest for the trees. The find party is exactly the same thing, a random queue system with a set of rules the only difference is you can tweak the rules so to speak or leave them at the basic gs needed to enter.
What you are defending is a griefers heaven. What I am suggesting allows for both, a simple gs check or more stringent requirements all depending on what type of party the leader wants, why separate this in the first place?
KISS
In ddo most lfm put up by experienced player take the first peeps that request to join and it up to those that join to learn or not. In raids the leader will take what HE believe is necessary for a good run and w/e after again newbs can learn this way and it reduces the time it takes to fill.
The system in Neverwinter encourages experienced players NOT to use the queuing system even if they would like the share their know-how with others.
The grouping system needs to change but putting a penalty in place is just plain stupid.
You speak of ease, so people would rather join an auto queue system and get a w/e group they may or may not enjoy as they have no idea how the majority of the party will want to run the delve and have to suck it up so to speak or be penalized just because they are too lazy to look through a list, of the particular delve they want to do, that gives them more info and choice on what kind of group they are joining.
Seems kind of counter productive and illogical, if they are to lazy to look through a lfm list maybe they are too lazy to run a delve?
Your missing the forest for the trees. The find party is exactly the same thing, a random queue system with a set of rules the only difference is you can tweak the rules so to speak or leave them at the basic gs needed to enter.
What you are defending is a griefers heaven. What I am suggesting allows for both, a simple gs check or more stringent requirements all depending on what type of party the leader wants, why separate this in the first place?
KISS
In ddo most lfm put up by experienced player take the first peeps that request to join and it up to those that join to learn or not. In raids the leader will take what HE believe is necessary for a good run and w/e after again newbs can learn this way and it reduces the time it takes to fill.
As I said two posts ago, "if it is not similar enough, then please elaborate. (I have never played DDO so I couldn't say.)" This clarification would have been appreciated in your previous post, because it's clearly not how Find Party works in Neverwinter, just by looking at the window.
The system in Neverwinter encourages experienced players NOT to use the queuing system even if they would like the share their know-how with others.
I'm definitely not disagreeing with this, especially if you include this with leveling speeds/Quest XP Rewards. Just to be clear -- I am not defending the random queue system as an ideal system.
The grouping system needs to change but putting a penalty in place is just plain stupid.
Let me try to say this as plainly as possible: Penalties come LAST. Fix the system first as much as possible, then penalties come in on what the system can't fix.
You speak of ease, so people would rather join an auto queue system and get a w/e group they may or may not enjoy as they have no idea how the majority of the party will want to run the delve and have to suck it up so to speak or be penalized just because they are too lazy to look through a list, of the particular delve they want to do, that gives them more info and choice on what kind of group they are joining.
Seems kind of counter productive and illogical, if they are to lazy to look through a lfm list maybe they are too lazy to run a delve?
*Shrug* It was also written with the impression that someone would be using something similar to the Find Party tab in Neverwinter, which is why I said your clarification would have been appreciated in your previous post.
Make a rolecheck for dungeon finder.
Refill leavers from queue.
Give players the choice to join "any progess" queues, or "fresh instance only" queues.
Thus
A: If you're going for Daily quest or DD chest or end boss drop, you want to get in as quickly as possible and don't care about the whole instance you might skip.
B: If you want a fresh instance, you may have to wait longer to get in, but since you aren't in a hurry anyway, that's not an issue.
(Watch your logs how often "fresh instance only" is picked at 60 and make "any progess" default...)
This way you don't need to penalize leavers. I am one for never give up, never surrender, but I've been to groups that break my spirit regardless.
You just openly called a customer a five year old, or at the very best referred to said customer as of lesser intelligence.
Classy.
The mods (green names) dont work for PWE. They are player volunteers. Their opinions are their own, and they are no more beholden to customers then you are.
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artuvasMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 30Arc User
edited June 2013
There should definitely be a debuff for leaving. One that grows as you leave on a 24 hour timer. For example the first ragequit/leave/dc within 24 hours gives you nothing, the second one within 24 hours gives you a one hour penalty, the third one within 24 hours, and you are banned from queing until your 24 hour timer resets. This is the best method.
PvP should have better rewards and a ladder. You should be able to see others pvp rating and need a certain rating to be able to get these rewards. The highest level pvp rewards should be on par with the highest level pve gear. And titles.
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artuvasMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 30Arc User
edited June 2013
I haven't done my reading but has it been explained why dungeons can't be saved? For example if someone leaves, you run to town and find another? I'm not talking being connected to the instance like WoW, but for example and individual or a group with a chance to continue the same instance, or start a fresh one when they enter. Since you're allowed to farm instances anyway...
After skimming the thread I think the solution is kind of apparent. This is an agglomeration of some things people have said in the thread along with some things I've thought.
1) Implement a "Party Kick Vote" option. Any party member can initiate a vote to kick a party member (put a 1-5 min cooldown on it though so you don't get annoying people spamming Kick Requests). This clears up when someone decides to go AFK to screw over their party. Require simple majority to pass. Successful kick increments u (see 4 below). One thing to watch for on this option is if a guild runs with 4 members+1 pug that they don't screw over the pug by kicking, not sure how to clear that up but it's certainly better than someone going afk to grief their party.
2) Implement a "Party Disband Vote" OPTION. Any party member can initiate a vote to disband the party (again, cooldown). If a majority go for it, the party is disbanded without any negative consequences.
3a) Implement an option users can select in preferences for "allow queue to dungeon/pvp/skirmish already in progress". If a user wants to run a dungeon fresh from the beginning (as I would for at least the first time through) they don't check the box, if they are willing to be a "fill-in" then they check the box. If you get 5 such members who all have the box checked, make a brand new dungeon group with those 5 members. This isn't a free pass to shortcut content, but rather a way to help groups stranded on the last boss with only 4 in group.
3b) Give party leader an option when running with an incomplete group to select class of members which will re-populate groups.
4) Implement a leaver penalty timer with hysteresis. The memory variable, u, should be initialized to 0. Every time someone leaves a party while in the middle of a pvp, skirmish, or dungeon event; u increments by 1. Define a constant k=1 for pvp/skirmish, k=3 for dungeon (assuming pvp and skirmish take about the same amount of time and dungeons take 3 times longer). Every 2 days (real time) u decrements by 1. The amount of time, t, YOUR ACCOUNT must wait IN GAME between leaving 1 event and queuing for the next should be equal to (Pseudo-code):
if u<0
{u=0 (wouldn't want a negative auction price bug again, right?)
t=0}
elseif u<=5
t=0
else
t=5mins*k*(u-5)
Essentially, you can leave queue/drop up to 5 times with no consequences. After that each time you leave a party you get an additional 5 minutes (15 minutes for dungeons) added between ALL of your queues until you get below the threshold. Add an option to somehow contact support in the event that you get a real shady connection and drop a bunch in a single day. So long as it's not a habit on your account they should reset your u variable.
Make a rolecheck for dungeon finder.
Refill leavers from queue.
Give players the choice to join "any progess" queues, or "fresh instance only" queues.
Thus
A: If you're going for Daily quest or DD chest or end boss drop, you want to get in as quickly as possible and don't care about the whole instance you might skip.
This.
Why should I be punished for server not responding or disconnected from server?
I did quit a dungeon in the middle. Now before you start raging, I did not quit because of multiple wipe, that's no reason to quit, neither would i quit due to a newbie saying "he hopes all goes well" as we were all newbie at some point.
But until the patch comes out, if somebody at the first boss start "needing" stuff out of his class ? Why should i stay ? No really ?
OH, and PS: if really they put a coward timer , easy solution, just retreat to the next camp fire IN the dungeon, do nothing, and wait the other lose patience and quit first. Et voila, no coward debuff.
Dungeon especially below 60 are not fun, I do them for gear, if somebody want to sell stuff they should be upfront and not ninja it. ETA: that is why we have a NEED (want to wear) and GREED (want to sell).
It might be useful make the distinction between an “Inclusive” process and an “Exclusive” process here.
The “drop of poison” punishment where the player is left with a debuff for a certain amount of online time or is banned for a time is a very excusive tack to take. It encourages them not to take part in whatever they were doing to achieve that mark. It does nothing to encourage them to hang around with people who will get them killed and cost them currency.
Exclusions will shrink a playerbase, or rather it will only encourage a certain type of person. And it sounds like that’s what this rabble is look for, a way to shave the playerbase down to “Only people who play my way”. And anyone else gets punished until they leave.
You can’t think that is an actual solution. It is a terrible business model at any rate.
The better solutions will always involve including people rather than excluding them. Timing is an issue but grouping tool could help mitigate that. Dropping a whole party and starting over again isn’t that big a deal when it take 3 minutes to get a party and go. It is a huge deal when it takes 30+ minutes.
Improve the grouping tools and this will all solve itself without illogical and poorly thought out punishments.
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artuvasMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 30Arc User
I did quit a dungeon in the middle. Now before you start raging, I did not quit because of multiple wipe, that's no reason to quit, neither would i quit due to a newbie saying "he hopes all goes well" as we were all newbie at some point.
But until the patch comes out, if somebody at the first boss start "needing" stuff out of his class ? Why should i stay ? No really ?
OH, and PS: if really they put a coward timer , easy solution, just retreat to the next camp fire IN the dungeon, do nothing, and wait the other lose patience and quit first. Et voila, no coward debuff.
Dungeon especially below 60 are not fun, I do them for gear, if somebody want to sell stuff they should be upfront and not ninja it. ETA: that is why we have a NEED (want to wear) and GREED (want to sell).
That's what they were talking about the group kick, with a vote...which is another can of worms really but...that's one solution I've seen it done in games, where they vote to kick. The other thing is, the rage quitter, probably won't have the patience to stay and do nothing, after all he is raging anyway. The other thing is, if he has to sit around and do nothing he's just as much wasting his time anyway, just like he's wasting the other people's time...it's just a deterrent for someone doing it over and over
What "Find a Party" are you talking about? There is no such animal that I am aware of. There is the queue, or advertizing in chat which you can be silenced for.
The way I see it when you hit L and then hit the queuing tab and choose say "epic mad dragon" the game should not put you in a autoanykind of group. It should open the Find party window but only show those parties up for epic mad dragon and let you choose one of those.
This way you can have a quick look at what is available and choose according to what your play style mood at the moment is. IF there is no group you want to join up for w/e various reason you have the option to start your own group and choose what classes you want and what playstyle you are looking for. Oh the leader of the queue you wish to join needs to accept you first. A pop up can show up in the leaders screen where has has to accept or decline via the shift1/shift2 method.
When peeps join a group and it is filled you all teleport just like we do now to the dungeon via shift 1 etc etc. Once inside the person that put up the queue is the party leader and no one can be kicked from the dungeon UNLESS they Disconnect. IF half way through the dungeon (or w/e) someone quits for w/e reason the party leader just puts his queue back up and it reappears in the list but with IP - in progress in it. The leader also has to option of putting some comments.
Once someone joins you they get teleported to the delve and just need to catch up, if you killed the mobs they shouldn't respawn and the person just runs to the group or alternately they could just teleport straight to the most recent camp. This can be tweaked its not a big deal.
I mean why a leavers penalty when there is no needs for such a system?
This way you can join a group more to your liking with ease, someone quits for w/e reason they can be replaced with ease. If you keep running into a griefer, lets call him @doofus that keeps quitting on you you just decline him in your future queues. Makes it much more efficient when it comes to joining a group that wants to play in the same manner as you do be it zerg or flower sniffing etc etc
I really do not see why this is even an issues in this age and day of mmorpgs.
All this talk of penalties and group kick votes etc etc will just open up a different cans of worms and cause different issues and not really fix anything.
Hell I would wager it will make queue that much longer. People will just stick to guild runs and "channels" or allied guilds if you will.
Now I am not saying what Andree is doing is bad thing but consider how the auto-queue fares if everyone follows this example and stays away from the queuing system in the first place.
Hello.
I agree with penatly for deserters but I also require the game to provide me with one more option for that to work in my favor!
Make my vast ignore list implement itself with the LFG search engine so I don't team/group up with those failures every again, thank you.
@pilf3r: Now that we are more on the same level of information...
It would be interesting if Neverwinter did implement that kind of queue. Of course, it would mean they'd have to go through the extra trouble of labeling each group and making them visible, but it's highly doubtful they'd have 1000s of queues going at the same time in a community this size to make that kind of suggestion too unwieldly.
However, if you personally want to convince others that there should never be penalties, you have your work cut out for you, because people have already seen before/after of a random queue system involving leaving penalties, and it was a net positive change per player word of mouth. The ones I've personally seen are in WoW and Rift, and it makes a big enough difference that people WILL ask for it. No, it does not eliminate the problem, but it mitigates it enough for it to be noticed.
Personally, I don't care either way if there's a penalty or not. But if there IS a penalty, it needs to be meaningful or it is worthless to put in the system in the first place.
Regarding what Aandre is doing -- guild/group/raid alliances are nothing new. They've been around since at LEAST the original Everquest, possibly older. One of the main purposes of their existence is to avoid ALL PUGs, so it doesn't matter how perfect your queue system is, they either won't use it or will queue with a full group anyway. Hell, I know one from Everquest called Afterhours that formed in 2003, and it's still active now.
30 minutes into the dungeon and the cleric says, "hope I'm doing okay, first time here." Of course the group had no deaths and the first boss went by easy. Two people drop.
Really annoying.
I would just be stoked having a healer. Anyway I kind of agree with this, however with NW server issues how are you going to tell who dropped out and deserves the penalty, and who got booted by the server?
also the whole kicking thing sucks, but i do understand that if cleric is needed then i should be kick if im not. last night ive been with guys who just use my powers along the way and kick me almost at the end, because they are too greedy for the loot.
Regarding what Aandre is doing -- guild/group/raid alliances are nothing new. They've been around since at LEAST the original Everquest, possibly older. One of the main purposes of their existence is to avoid ALL PUGs, so it doesn't matter how perfect your queue system is, they either won't use it or will queue with a full group anyway. Hell, I know one from Everquest called Afterhours that formed in 2003, and it's still active now.
True but then this system is so bad adding a penalty will just push most people into joining "channels".
Take for example I have used the queue system to night to geta epic mad dragon goin if failed and we could not get the class combination we wanted. we ended up with 2 cleric and we really wanted another TR.
What happened is everyone kinda of stood around saying we can do this with 2 clerics, we need more dps but didnt want to tell the last person to join(the 2nd cleric) to leave and cuase hurt feelins so after about 45 mins of wasting our time we just ended up all quitting.
Can't speak for the others but I logged off disgusted, not at the people I was with, they were all very nice, but with the system. So tonight after my busy day at work wiping old peoples arses I got to waste my time and get my crafting queue going for the night.
Either i will make a new toon as endgame grouping sucks and I will not spam in zone or I will end up not giving a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and just stop log in.
All because this system blows nuggets.
In the future I will join a "channel" or just log in and see who online in the guild if no one I will log off. IS this really what cryptic wants to achieve with this queue system?
I work for a living and I don't have hours to find groups after work and then spend hours in said group because I will get a penalty for leaving if things take too long and that is what will happen with a leavers penalty.
You don't need to convince me that it's stupid if they just put in penalties and do nothing else.
You keep quoting this but if they fix the system we don't needs leavers penalty because the whole argument for adding one in becomes moot.
Simply making your party requeueable from inside the dungeon makes the need for a "leavers penalty" moot. I think some peeps just want this for the sake of it, just like the chat spam report system.
lets not work with penalties, at all. Let there be a Point Bonus that u recive after 5 completed Fights..A 100% xp token, that can use after a fight were u did particulary well.
You keep quoting this but if they fix the system we don't needs leavers penalty because the whole argument for adding one in becomes moot.
Simply making your party requeueable from inside the dungeon makes the need for a "leavers penalty" moot. I think some peeps just want this for the sake of it, just like the chat spam report system.
It's not moot, because what if it's the GF or DC that ragequits or goes into a "I'm the one holding the group together" snit after loot <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and gets called out on it? You're stuck waiting in those cases. Having a perfect queue system does not automagically create players of needed class specializations that are willing to queue, on demand, and not every game has the insane volume of players that WoW has. That's a totally different animal separate from the queue system.
It's not moot, because what if it's the GF or DC that ragequits or goes into a "I'm the one holding the group together" snit after loot <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and gets called out on it? You're stuck waiting in those cases. Having a perfect queue system does not automagically create players of needed class specializations that are willing to queue, on demand, and not every game has the insane volume of players that WoW has. That's a totally different animal separate from the queue system.
Bah let him leave and good riddance then, I play a GF and my wife plays a DC your acting like no on plays these classes but we do. I am telling you right now if they add a penalty you will have one less GF and DC to wait for.
And I am sure it will just make queues even longer.
I will give you your argument back, adding a penalty will not make class issues magically go away. Fixing class issues will fix class issues.
Bah let him leave and good riddance then, I play a GF and my wife plays a DC your acting like no on plays these classes but we do. I am telling you right now if they add a penalty you will have one less GF and DC to wait for.
And I am sure it will just make queues even longer.
I will give you your argument back, adding a penalty will not make class issues magically go away. Fixing class issues will fix class issues.
No, I'm acting like "not enough" people play them. Because not enough do. If people did, you wouldn't get 5 TR teams after a long wait, or near-instant queues on a DC/GF duo.
Penalties aren't designed to make other problems go away completely. They are designed as band-aids because you don't HAVE a way to fix the problem.
No, I'm acting like "not enough" people play them. Because not enough do. If people did, you wouldn't get 5 TR teams after a long wait, or near-instant queues on a DC/GF duo.
Penalties aren't designed to make other problems go away completely. They are designed as band-aids because you don't HAVE a way to fix the problem.
Let me rephrase, do you think adding in a penalty will make people play these 2 classes more? If no then what is the relevance other than trying to force someone you clearly do not like to play nicer or how you would like them to play, simply because you "need" their class?
at an hour the forums will fill up with rage posts about "i got disconnected" or "my power blinked" or whatever else followed by "and now i cannot play for an hour, this is stupid, i hate you, blah blah"
15 minutes makes it so that it is generally not worth leaving, but is not excessively punishing to people who had technical problems.
Being disconnected still isn't leaving. Neverwinter simply considers the person "Disconnected" until they relog.
Also there should be a safe way to leave. Say someone had an emergency & had to leave so the party falls apart. Should the other 3-4 people in the party suffer the penalty? (As most of you know, the game doesn't let you pick up replacement members after you kill the 1st miniboss)
& finally, a vote kick option or some other way to deal with bots. Pre-60 PvP is plagued with them.
I am sorry but what you said in your last post is basically saying to other kiddies in the sandbox that they better play your way because you NEED them in your sandbox and if they don't like how you want them to play tough nuggets or you will tell their mommy they were throwing sand at you to get them punished for ruining your fun.
Let me rephrase, do you think adding in a penalty will make people play these 2 classes more? If no then what is the relevance other than trying to force someone you clearly do not like to play nicer or how you would like them to play, simply because you "need" their class?
Well yeah, adding in a penalty makes less people queue. That's why it's a band-aid and not a solution. But it also fudges the ratio of DPS to Tank/Healer a bit because, amazingly enough, most of the trolls that do it are DPS, so for the remaining people queuing, the queues go faster. The GF and DC won't notice a difference, but the DPS will.
Being disconnected still isn't leaving. Neverwinter simply considers the person "Disconnected" until they relog.
Also there should be a safe way to leave. Say someone had an emergency & had to leave so the party falls apart. Should the other 3-4 people in the party suffer the penalty? (As most of you know, the game doesn't let you pick up replacement members after you kill the 1st miniboss)
That needs to change and is slated for change in the roll out. My issue is that it says "replace with the same class" in the notes. If, at the beginning, you are kicking last one in to get a DC then you will never get him with the new proposed method. The queue system needs to be fixed from the get go to have one of each class.
I am sorry but what you said in your last post is basically saying to other kiddies in the sandbox that they better play your way because you NEED them in your sandbox and if they don't like how you want them to play tough nuggets or you will tell their mommy they were throwing sand at you to get them punished for ruining your fun.
You're entitled to view it that way, but that's not what I said.
Comments
Your missing the forest for the trees. The find party is exactly the same thing, a random queue system with a set of rules the only difference is you can tweak the rules so to speak or leave them at the basic gs needed to enter.
What you are defending is a griefers heaven. What I am suggesting allows for both, a simple gs check or more stringent requirements all depending on what type of party the leader wants, why separate this in the first place?
KISS
In ddo most lfm put up by experienced player take the first peeps that request to join and it up to those that join to learn or not. In raids the leader will take what HE believe is necessary for a good run and w/e after again newbs can learn this way and it reduces the time it takes to fill.
The system in Neverwinter encourages experienced players NOT to use the queuing system even if they would like the share their know-how with others.
The grouping system needs to change but putting a penalty in place is just plain stupid.
You speak of ease, so people would rather join an auto queue system and get a w/e group they may or may not enjoy as they have no idea how the majority of the party will want to run the delve and have to suck it up so to speak or be penalized just because they are too lazy to look through a list, of the particular delve they want to do, that gives them more info and choice on what kind of group they are joining.
Seems kind of counter productive and illogical, if they are to lazy to look through a lfm list maybe they are too lazy to run a delve?
Neverwinter Thieves Guild
As I said two posts ago, "if it is not similar enough, then please elaborate. (I have never played DDO so I couldn't say.)" This clarification would have been appreciated in your previous post, because it's clearly not how Find Party works in Neverwinter, just by looking at the window.
I'm definitely not disagreeing with this, especially if you include this with leveling speeds/Quest XP Rewards. Just to be clear -- I am not defending the random queue system as an ideal system.
Let me try to say this as plainly as possible: Penalties come LAST. Fix the system first as much as possible, then penalties come in on what the system can't fix.
*Shrug* It was also written with the impression that someone would be using something similar to the Find Party tab in Neverwinter, which is why I said your clarification would have been appreciated in your previous post.
Refill leavers from queue.
Give players the choice to join "any progess" queues, or "fresh instance only" queues.
Thus
A: If you're going for Daily quest or DD chest or end boss drop, you want to get in as quickly as possible and don't care about the whole instance you might skip.
B: If you want a fresh instance, you may have to wait longer to get in, but since you aren't in a hurry anyway, that's not an issue.
(Watch your logs how often "fresh instance only" is picked at 60 and make "any progess" default...)
This way you don't need to penalize leavers. I am one for never give up, never surrender, but I've been to groups that break my spirit regardless.
The mods (green names) dont work for PWE. They are player volunteers. Their opinions are their own, and they are no more beholden to customers then you are.
PvP should have better rewards and a ladder. You should be able to see others pvp rating and need a certain rating to be able to get these rewards. The highest level pvp rewards should be on par with the highest level pve gear. And titles.
1) Implement a "Party Kick Vote" option. Any party member can initiate a vote to kick a party member (put a 1-5 min cooldown on it though so you don't get annoying people spamming Kick Requests). This clears up when someone decides to go AFK to screw over their party. Require simple majority to pass. Successful kick increments u (see 4 below). One thing to watch for on this option is if a guild runs with 4 members+1 pug that they don't screw over the pug by kicking, not sure how to clear that up but it's certainly better than someone going afk to grief their party.
2) Implement a "Party Disband Vote" OPTION. Any party member can initiate a vote to disband the party (again, cooldown). If a majority go for it, the party is disbanded without any negative consequences.
3a) Implement an option users can select in preferences for "allow queue to dungeon/pvp/skirmish already in progress". If a user wants to run a dungeon fresh from the beginning (as I would for at least the first time through) they don't check the box, if they are willing to be a "fill-in" then they check the box. If you get 5 such members who all have the box checked, make a brand new dungeon group with those 5 members. This isn't a free pass to shortcut content, but rather a way to help groups stranded on the last boss with only 4 in group.
3b) Give party leader an option when running with an incomplete group to select class of members which will re-populate groups.
4) Implement a leaver penalty timer with hysteresis. The memory variable, u, should be initialized to 0. Every time someone leaves a party while in the middle of a pvp, skirmish, or dungeon event; u increments by 1. Define a constant k=1 for pvp/skirmish, k=3 for dungeon (assuming pvp and skirmish take about the same amount of time and dungeons take 3 times longer). Every 2 days (real time) u decrements by 1. The amount of time, t, YOUR ACCOUNT must wait IN GAME between leaving 1 event and queuing for the next should be equal to (Pseudo-code):
if u<0
{u=0 (wouldn't want a negative auction price bug again, right?)
t=0}
elseif u<=5
t=0
else
t=5mins*k*(u-5)
Essentially, you can leave queue/drop up to 5 times with no consequences. After that each time you leave a party you get an additional 5 minutes (15 minutes for dungeons) added between ALL of your queues until you get below the threshold. Add an option to somehow contact support in the event that you get a real shady connection and drop a bunch in a single day. So long as it's not a habit on your account they should reset your u variable.
This.
Why should I be punished for server not responding or disconnected from server?
But until the patch comes out, if somebody at the first boss start "needing" stuff out of his class ? Why should i stay ? No really ?
OH, and PS: if really they put a coward timer , easy solution, just retreat to the next camp fire IN the dungeon, do nothing, and wait the other lose patience and quit first. Et voila, no coward debuff.
Dungeon especially below 60 are not fun, I do them for gear, if somebody want to sell stuff they should be upfront and not ninja it. ETA: that is why we have a NEED (want to wear) and GREED (want to sell).
The “drop of poison” punishment where the player is left with a debuff for a certain amount of online time or is banned for a time is a very excusive tack to take. It encourages them not to take part in whatever they were doing to achieve that mark. It does nothing to encourage them to hang around with people who will get them killed and cost them currency.
Exclusions will shrink a playerbase, or rather it will only encourage a certain type of person. And it sounds like that’s what this rabble is look for, a way to shave the playerbase down to “Only people who play my way”. And anyone else gets punished until they leave.
You can’t think that is an actual solution. It is a terrible business model at any rate.
The better solutions will always involve including people rather than excluding them. Timing is an issue but grouping tool could help mitigate that. Dropping a whole party and starting over again isn’t that big a deal when it take 3 minutes to get a party and go. It is a huge deal when it takes 30+ minutes.
Improve the grouping tools and this will all solve itself without illogical and poorly thought out punishments.
That's what they were talking about the group kick, with a vote...which is another can of worms really but...that's one solution I've seen it done in games, where they vote to kick. The other thing is, the rage quitter, probably won't have the patience to stay and do nothing, after all he is raging anyway. The other thing is, if he has to sit around and do nothing he's just as much wasting his time anyway, just like he's wasting the other people's time...it's just a deterrent for someone doing it over and over
The way I see it when you hit L and then hit the queuing tab and choose say "epic mad dragon" the game should not put you in a autoanykind of group. It should open the Find party window but only show those parties up for epic mad dragon and let you choose one of those.
This way you can have a quick look at what is available and choose according to what your play style mood at the moment is. IF there is no group you want to join up for w/e various reason you have the option to start your own group and choose what classes you want and what playstyle you are looking for. Oh the leader of the queue you wish to join needs to accept you first. A pop up can show up in the leaders screen where has has to accept or decline via the shift1/shift2 method.
When peeps join a group and it is filled you all teleport just like we do now to the dungeon via shift 1 etc etc. Once inside the person that put up the queue is the party leader and no one can be kicked from the dungeon UNLESS they Disconnect. IF half way through the dungeon (or w/e) someone quits for w/e reason the party leader just puts his queue back up and it reappears in the list but with IP - in progress in it. The leader also has to option of putting some comments.
Once someone joins you they get teleported to the delve and just need to catch up, if you killed the mobs they shouldn't respawn and the person just runs to the group or alternately they could just teleport straight to the most recent camp. This can be tweaked its not a big deal.
I mean why a leavers penalty when there is no needs for such a system?
This way you can join a group more to your liking with ease, someone quits for w/e reason they can be replaced with ease. If you keep running into a griefer, lets call him @doofus that keeps quitting on you you just decline him in your future queues. Makes it much more efficient when it comes to joining a group that wants to play in the same manner as you do be it zerg or flower sniffing etc etc
I really do not see why this is even an issues in this age and day of mmorpgs.
All this talk of penalties and group kick votes etc etc will just open up a different cans of worms and cause different issues and not really fix anything.
Hell I would wager it will make queue that much longer. People will just stick to guild runs and "channels" or allied guilds if you will.
See it has already begun.
Now I am not saying what Andree is doing is bad thing but consider how the auto-queue fares if everyone follows this example and stays away from the queuing system in the first place.
Neverwinter Thieves Guild
I agree with penatly for deserters but I also require the game to provide me with one more option for that to work in my favor!
Make my vast ignore list implement itself with the LFG search engine so I don't team/group up with those failures every again, thank you.
It would be interesting if Neverwinter did implement that kind of queue. Of course, it would mean they'd have to go through the extra trouble of labeling each group and making them visible, but it's highly doubtful they'd have 1000s of queues going at the same time in a community this size to make that kind of suggestion too unwieldly.
However, if you personally want to convince others that there should never be penalties, you have your work cut out for you, because people have already seen before/after of a random queue system involving leaving penalties, and it was a net positive change per player word of mouth. The ones I've personally seen are in WoW and Rift, and it makes a big enough difference that people WILL ask for it. No, it does not eliminate the problem, but it mitigates it enough for it to be noticed.
Personally, I don't care either way if there's a penalty or not. But if there IS a penalty, it needs to be meaningful or it is worthless to put in the system in the first place.
Regarding what Aandre is doing -- guild/group/raid alliances are nothing new. They've been around since at LEAST the original Everquest, possibly older. One of the main purposes of their existence is to avoid ALL PUGs, so it doesn't matter how perfect your queue system is, they either won't use it or will queue with a full group anyway. Hell, I know one from Everquest called Afterhours that formed in 2003, and it's still active now.
I would just be stoked having a healer. Anyway I kind of agree with this, however with NW server issues how are you going to tell who dropped out and deserves the penalty, and who got booted by the server?
True but then this system is so bad adding a penalty will just push most people into joining "channels".
Take for example I have used the queue system to night to geta epic mad dragon goin if failed and we could not get the class combination we wanted. we ended up with 2 cleric and we really wanted another TR.
What happened is everyone kinda of stood around saying we can do this with 2 clerics, we need more dps but didnt want to tell the last person to join(the 2nd cleric) to leave and cuase hurt feelins so after about 45 mins of wasting our time we just ended up all quitting.
Can't speak for the others but I logged off disgusted, not at the people I was with, they were all very nice, but with the system. So tonight after my busy day at work wiping old peoples arses I got to waste my time and get my crafting queue going for the night.
Either i will make a new toon as endgame grouping sucks and I will not spam in zone or I will end up not giving a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and just stop log in.
All because this system blows nuggets.
In the future I will join a "channel" or just log in and see who online in the guild if no one I will log off. IS this really what cryptic wants to achieve with this queue system?
I work for a living and I don't have hours to find groups after work and then spend hours in said group because I will get a penalty for leaving if things take too long and that is what will happen with a leavers penalty.
Neverwinter Thieves Guild
You don't need to convince me that it's stupid if they just put in penalties and do nothing else.
You keep quoting this but if they fix the system we don't needs leavers penalty because the whole argument for adding one in becomes moot.
Simply making your party requeueable from inside the dungeon makes the need for a "leavers penalty" moot. I think some peeps just want this for the sake of it, just like the chat spam report system.
Neverwinter Thieves Guild
It's not moot, because what if it's the GF or DC that ragequits or goes into a "I'm the one holding the group together" snit after loot <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and gets called out on it? You're stuck waiting in those cases. Having a perfect queue system does not automagically create players of needed class specializations that are willing to queue, on demand, and not every game has the insane volume of players that WoW has. That's a totally different animal separate from the queue system.
Bah let him leave and good riddance then, I play a GF and my wife plays a DC your acting like no on plays these classes but we do. I am telling you right now if they add a penalty you will have one less GF and DC to wait for.
And I am sure it will just make queues even longer.
I will give you your argument back, adding a penalty will not make class issues magically go away. Fixing class issues will fix class issues.
Neverwinter Thieves Guild
No, I'm acting like "not enough" people play them. Because not enough do. If people did, you wouldn't get 5 TR teams after a long wait, or near-instant queues on a DC/GF duo.
Penalties aren't designed to make other problems go away completely. They are designed as band-aids because you don't HAVE a way to fix the problem.
Let me rephrase, do you think adding in a penalty will make people play these 2 classes more? If no then what is the relevance other than trying to force someone you clearly do not like to play nicer or how you would like them to play, simply because you "need" their class?
Neverwinter Thieves Guild
Being disconnected still isn't leaving. Neverwinter simply considers the person "Disconnected" until they relog.
Also there should be a safe way to leave. Say someone had an emergency & had to leave so the party falls apart. Should the other 3-4 people in the party suffer the penalty? (As most of you know, the game doesn't let you pick up replacement members after you kill the 1st miniboss)
& finally, a vote kick option or some other way to deal with bots. Pre-60 PvP is plagued with them.
I am sorry but what you said in your last post is basically saying to other kiddies in the sandbox that they better play your way because you NEED them in your sandbox and if they don't like how you want them to play tough nuggets or you will tell their mommy they were throwing sand at you to get them punished for ruining your fun.
Neverwinter Thieves Guild
Well yeah, adding in a penalty makes less people queue. That's why it's a band-aid and not a solution. But it also fudges the ratio of DPS to Tank/Healer a bit because, amazingly enough, most of the trolls that do it are DPS, so for the remaining people queuing, the queues go faster. The GF and DC won't notice a difference, but the DPS will.
That needs to change and is slated for change in the roll out. My issue is that it says "replace with the same class" in the notes. If, at the beginning, you are kicking last one in to get a DC then you will never get him with the new proposed method. The queue system needs to be fixed from the get go to have one of each class.
You're entitled to view it that way, but that's not what I said.