This is quite simply the most comprehensive, meticulously and practically researched Cleric guide on all the forums, by miles.
It is so good it should be an inspiration for all other classes guides too.
Thanks, Unspecified and all your helpers for all your hard work!
0
d20masterMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 4Arc User
edited June 2013
Hello.
Kudos on the guide. I reached 60 not too long ago and was considering using it when I repecc'd but then got wind of the patch notes. I know it's just speculation at this point but how much of an impact has it made on the guide? With AS changes, any point to reaching 33-37% recovery? Is Sooth going to be desirable now with the threat changes and the adjustment or are other things we might need going to eclipse it still? Using the same powers or ones that have been modified like Divine Glow/Prophecy of Doom going to earn a spot on our bars?
Trying to weigh the patch changes against the guide to determine if I use it, will I still be okay post-patch for end-game stuff or if the changes are significant enough to warrant holding off lest I need to switch specs again?
Kudos on the guide. I reached 60 not too long ago and was considering using it when I repecc'd but then got wind of the patch notes. I know it's just speculation at this point but how much of an impact has it made on the guide? With AS changes, any point to reaching 33-37% recovery? Is Sooth going to be desirable now with the threat changes and the adjustment or are other things we might need going to eclipse it still? Using the same powers or ones that have been modified like Divine Glow/Prophecy of Doom going to earn a spot on our bars?
Trying to weigh the patch changes against the guide to determine if I use it, will I still be okay post-patch for end-game stuff or if the changes are significant enough to warrant holding off lest I need to switch specs again?
Thanks.
I wish I could answer your questions, but as it stands right now I can't.
The 33%-37% recharge speed was purely based on Astral Shield and if the changes stay then 100% up-time is impossible regardless of what you do, literally impossible.
Cleanse will be absolute garbage if the 20 second CD stays.
If Divine Glow actually works it would be my go-to 3rd power but with Astral Shield taking a hit it may be necessary to take a 3rd heal. Although the options are really FF, Healing Word, and BoH. Sadly, FF is really the only good option of the 3 for general use since BoH has a ridiculously long CD and could only cover every other AS downtime.
Sooth I still have serious doubts about. It may be worth slotting Sooth and Foresight but then I'm giving up more Hallowed Ground so I don't get aggro and when I'm already so used to having all the aggro, and kiting outside AS from time to time, I don't know that I'll bother. The idea of further gimping the already gimped post-patch-cleric just to make the lives of the supposedly buffed GWFs and GFs easier seems silly to me.
I'm not honestly sure there's much to "respec for." All they seem to be doing is nerfing a bunch of stuff and leaving the garbage as garbage. I would respec if there was something better to use but even with the AS nerfs it's still better than every other option and the nerfs to AS don't magically make BoH a good heal that keeps anybody alive. I'm not sure most people realize it but the feats I chose and the powers I use aren't because "These are the good ones" but rather I took the approach of "eliminate all the broken, buggy, useless, and poorly designed stuff" (e.g. +5% recovery, 1% power to crit, Divine Advantage, the entire top tree, etc...). What I use it's all that was really left at the end of the day. There were a few legitimate 'choices' between feats but in the end there were clear winners, imho.
All that said, I really haven't played around on the test server with the changes. I've just spent a lot of time solo-healing every dungeon in the game (I cleared all T2s before I learned AS stacked, we used to get any extra clerics to run DPS) and I know what happens when the blue circle goes missing at the wrong time. I built myself to be tanky because I found 90% of wipes were caused by me dying and the blue circle disappearing. Me, the cleric, not having aggro and the blue circle going down and being on CD just seems likely to produce the same results since clerics have no good way to heal anyone or really do anything all that useful besides kite, tank, and put down blue circles. Mediocre damage, poor healing, and no REAL control.
I'm not bitter...
(I will give it an honest test one of these days and see how things actually go but I don't have high hopes)
0
vmlinuxMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
... just seems likely to produce the same results since clerics have no good way to heal anyone or really do anything all that useful besides kite, tank, and put down blue circles...
I think a lot of us built ourselves as tank-like as possible because we know the train lands at our doorstep. After this goes live it will be interesting watching the control wizards and rogues go down to the random aggro thing. I don't think randomizing or spreading aggro should have ever been even considered. Having aggro go to clerics is fine, what needed to happen was a way for tanks to AE pull aggro off of clerics. I think we all know that it doesn't take a huge amount to get a mob off of a cleric, it's the lightly touched mob that gravitates to the healer.
I'm wondering what the strategy to get all the mobs clumped up for the CW to manage them will be now. Will everyone in the group have to drop what they are doing and run over to the CW, or some designated control area? Before the CW mainly hung out by the cleric which was the designated mob magnet.
I was telling a friend that every single MMO has screwed up aggro on launch, and they always spend a lot of time <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> around with it and eventually settle on giving tools to the tank to control it. Why this wasn't a lesson learned by this game at this point in history I have no idea.
What a very helpful guide! Thank you so much for writing it. It is well spoken and justified, the two things that maintain support of my hopes for the upcoming patches. I'm interested to see what the DC turns into afterwards and how the balances unfold in party-play. Best wishes for the future.
Very well written, me personally used this guide before it as written it's nearly identical to mine i guess that's why i find it so good.
Even as hardcore experienced Cleric it teached me a few good points, should be stickied.
I'm always friendly and will be happy any of your inquires via pm!
However i'm not a part of PWE and can't handle any questions regarding your personal details or account.
Please respect the forum ToS and keep a nice manner towards your fellow adventurers!
I'm usually a critic of these types of guides, but I've got to say that I actually really enjoyed reading this one. The tone was informative while not being patronising, and was extremely helpful. I've not yet hit 60, and was worried that the cost associated with re-specs meant that I didn't really know how effective my build actually was.
The real challenge now for you will be ensuring the content is updated in a practical sense once all the imminent changes (and I won't use the term 'nerfs') hit the live servers. Keep it up!
Hi this is a great guide, just to clarify 18/22/20 is WIS/STR/CHA? and are you considering 22 STR for the critical? thank you very much for your efforts and for sharing
That is kind of irritating. Especially since clerics are already the only class that can't get +4 to primary/secondary stats on any race. Not to mention the fact that our itemization is garbage compared to Control Wizards, and I'm pretty sure TRs as well.
Anyway, sounds like you chose the setup I would have opted for. My cleric has 20/20/20 (13 Int) final stats and I'm pretty happy with it. The only change I might consider would be 18/22/20 but I don't think that makes enough of a difference one way or the other to justify a respec. I wouldn't want to reduce Charisma but I don't want it any higher either. I just find 20 is a nice comfortable spot where getting 33%+ recharge is easy but going much past 37-40% is just not worth it, imho.
Hi this is a great guide, just to clarify 18/22/20 is WIS/STR/CHA? and are you considering 22 STR for the critical? thank you very much for your efforts and for sharing
Low level just joined and learning.
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adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
edited June 2013
I have a build pretty similar to yours (although I did pick Greater Divine Power), but the changes that just went in are....uhm....not fun.
With AS how having a duration of 10s (instead of 15), I can only keep it up 67% of the time, and it also seems to me that divinity does not build up as rapidly as it did before....or maybe I am just mistaken. What this means is basically that keeping everyone alive is harder than before. I predict that some clerics with good gear, but limited skill will have serious problems soon.
Our Feat that gave D on cooling encounters were bugged and gave double the intended amount as intended.
That's what you're feeling in Divinity generation.
Ah, I had missed this one. Thanks.
Now, of more relevance to the original subject of this thread: Does it make sense to make any changes to the "typical" cleric build as a result of this change? Increase personal survivability by putting more into Deflection or Regeneration, ? Is the 4th Divinity pip now completely irrelevant as clerics will practically always have a Divinity shortage? Does it make sense to replace some of the feats?
Now, of more relevance to the original subject of this thread: Does it make sense to make any changes to the "typical" cleric build as a result of this change? Increase personal survivability by putting more into Deflection or Regeneration, ? Is the 4th Divinity pip now completely irrelevant as clerics will practically always have a Divinity shortage? Does it make sense to replace some of the feats?
It is burst damage that kills in this game, not relatively slow and small hits. Regeneration does not help at all with burst healing which both D-AS and FF provide sufficiently (barely), if you have them available and able to use them for that context.
Deflection is just a wasted stat if you do not already have stacked Defense.
So, Defense is still the best secondary stat, the gameplay value of Soulforged enchant and Holy Resolve goes through the roof as does anything that increases AP gain (rather than just Recharge Speed) and healing output, like Power.
Of course, if you find yourself consistently running around at less than max health, then something is indeed wrong and the value of Regeneration increases significantly, but more likely it is a gameplay issue.
In short, you cannot easily avoid Cryptic's intent to make everyone (i.e. a whole group) spend a lot of resources on potions and Injury kits. I think it is still do-able but certainly far from easy.
I found this after the nerf but I want to respec and I was looking around at where to put my points. This is very helpful. I can say that after the patch we don't hold as much aggro so I'm wondering if the points I originally put in Soothe should stay there.
I learned a lot of stuff I didn't know about feats and especially class features...
The AS nerf is frustrating but using some (or all) of your suggestions for respec, healing might just get a little more manageable for me. I'm still learning....
Oh, I get it now. You're a butt-hurt green-bar-whack-a-mole healer who doesn't like the aggro problems. DEAL WITH IT. If/when things change I'll update the guide. The fact is I didn't write a guide about how to play in the mythical la-la-land where everything is the way you want it to be. I wrote a guide about how to play the game AS IT IS. Maybe I was wrong to think people wanted to actually play the game and make progress before the Mythical Happy Patch happens.
shelendilMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
The only thing the patch changed in the original post for me is the emphasis on Hallowed Ground. Now sometimes I prefer Divine Armor for the spike heal effect. I also use my AP much more judiciously, rather than just spamming it.
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shandareneeMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
If you are struggling when AS is down. Do what you did before hititing 60. Hit everything with Astral Seal just BEFORE AS goes on CD. Keeps my party happy until the next drop. *shrug*
Good guide but you underestimate having 3k defense in pve as a cleric and divine armor for that HP gain and defense, especially better for pvp since astral sucks now. I use divine armor/flamestrike and sometimes switch armor with hallowed when theres little adds in PvE. I prefer having that high of a defense as a cleric rather than over 23k HP.
Edit: Forgot to mention though, I'm PvE/PvP based so that def. is only around 2.2k in PvP which helps, and I'm diminished on crit/recov in PvP too (w/o the stone to help) so my power could easily be 7k but I enjoy PvP so its just under 6k, don't enjoy PvP as much as I used to before the nerf of AS though. I might take off def for hp if I think I really need it though, which is a no so far with this content, soloing CN w/o any deaths, same with my party.
0
baalhashmalMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 65Arc User
edited June 2013
unspecifiederror,
As a completely new player to Neverwinter (and to the MMORPG scene in general), I just want to give a huge thank you to you for this informative guide. It has helped in answering questions and providing me with a better understanding of what the Devoted Cleric's primary jobs are or can be based on one's choice of growth.
Even with the supposed changes involving nerfing some of the Cleric's abilities (Astral Shield), I still find it very useful. I will have to Respect both my powers and feats accordingly; I really want to be an anchor for the players I play with, giving them boosts and increasing their survivability, and has helped me reduce the guilt when it comes to healing the random players I dungeon delve/skirmish with (the ones that for whatever reason, shrug the red circles that take away a chunk of their health).
Cleric:Marquis Elmdore - Current Main Wizard: Iamblichus Fighter: Anna the Titan Barbarian: Anann Valkyrja Ranger: Minerva Cory'phaia Warlock: Suri Coralyne Reid
Calculators to look at tooltips etc while not needing to be in game, very useful while reading different guides as a newer person.
That's not a bad looking calculator. The 'human' button couldn't be toggled 'off' (after toggling it on) when I used it, but otherwise I liked it better than any of the other 3 or so popular ones I've seen.
Also, is the Miracle Healer's set still the best set we have? If Beacon isn't broken would it maybe be better? I don't know what the stats are on a full beacon set though so I dunno. I was just hoping that with Gauntlgrym out now, we'd have something better or at least a fix.
0
starlitenlMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 28Arc User
edited June 2013
unspec: it's been a couple of days since the big patch, what are your thoughts on the changes and how do you think it will change this build?
Comments
It is so good it should be an inspiration for all other classes guides too.
Thanks, Unspecified and all your helpers for all your hard work!
Kudos on the guide. I reached 60 not too long ago and was considering using it when I repecc'd but then got wind of the patch notes. I know it's just speculation at this point but how much of an impact has it made on the guide? With AS changes, any point to reaching 33-37% recovery? Is Sooth going to be desirable now with the threat changes and the adjustment or are other things we might need going to eclipse it still? Using the same powers or ones that have been modified like Divine Glow/Prophecy of Doom going to earn a spot on our bars?
Trying to weigh the patch changes against the guide to determine if I use it, will I still be okay post-patch for end-game stuff or if the changes are significant enough to warrant holding off lest I need to switch specs again?
Thanks.
I wish I could answer your questions, but as it stands right now I can't.
The 33%-37% recharge speed was purely based on Astral Shield and if the changes stay then 100% up-time is impossible regardless of what you do, literally impossible.
Cleanse will be absolute garbage if the 20 second CD stays.
If Divine Glow actually works it would be my go-to 3rd power but with Astral Shield taking a hit it may be necessary to take a 3rd heal. Although the options are really FF, Healing Word, and BoH. Sadly, FF is really the only good option of the 3 for general use since BoH has a ridiculously long CD and could only cover every other AS downtime.
Sooth I still have serious doubts about. It may be worth slotting Sooth and Foresight but then I'm giving up more Hallowed Ground so I don't get aggro and when I'm already so used to having all the aggro, and kiting outside AS from time to time, I don't know that I'll bother. The idea of further gimping the already gimped post-patch-cleric just to make the lives of the supposedly buffed GWFs and GFs easier seems silly to me.
I'm not honestly sure there's much to "respec for." All they seem to be doing is nerfing a bunch of stuff and leaving the garbage as garbage. I would respec if there was something better to use but even with the AS nerfs it's still better than every other option and the nerfs to AS don't magically make BoH a good heal that keeps anybody alive. I'm not sure most people realize it but the feats I chose and the powers I use aren't because "These are the good ones" but rather I took the approach of "eliminate all the broken, buggy, useless, and poorly designed stuff" (e.g. +5% recovery, 1% power to crit, Divine Advantage, the entire top tree, etc...). What I use it's all that was really left at the end of the day. There were a few legitimate 'choices' between feats but in the end there were clear winners, imho.
All that said, I really haven't played around on the test server with the changes. I've just spent a lot of time solo-healing every dungeon in the game (I cleared all T2s before I learned AS stacked, we used to get any extra clerics to run DPS) and I know what happens when the blue circle goes missing at the wrong time. I built myself to be tanky because I found 90% of wipes were caused by me dying and the blue circle disappearing. Me, the cleric, not having aggro and the blue circle going down and being on CD just seems likely to produce the same results since clerics have no good way to heal anyone or really do anything all that useful besides kite, tank, and put down blue circles. Mediocre damage, poor healing, and no REAL control.
I'm not bitter...
(I will give it an honest test one of these days and see how things actually go but I don't have high hopes)
I think a lot of us built ourselves as tank-like as possible because we know the train lands at our doorstep. After this goes live it will be interesting watching the control wizards and rogues go down to the random aggro thing. I don't think randomizing or spreading aggro should have ever been even considered. Having aggro go to clerics is fine, what needed to happen was a way for tanks to AE pull aggro off of clerics. I think we all know that it doesn't take a huge amount to get a mob off of a cleric, it's the lightly touched mob that gravitates to the healer.
I'm wondering what the strategy to get all the mobs clumped up for the CW to manage them will be now. Will everyone in the group have to drop what they are doing and run over to the CW, or some designated control area? Before the CW mainly hung out by the cleric which was the designated mob magnet.
I was telling a friend that every single MMO has screwed up aggro on launch, and they always spend a lot of time <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> around with it and eventually settle on giving tools to the tank to control it. Why this wasn't a lesson learned by this game at this point in history I have no idea.
Even as hardcore experienced Cleric it teached me a few good points, should be stickied.
However i'm not a part of PWE and can't handle any questions regarding your personal details or account.
Please respect the forum ToS and keep a nice manner towards your fellow adventurers!
| Half Elf - Cleric | Good reading for Clerics |
The real challenge now for you will be ensuring the content is updated in a practical sense once all the imminent changes (and I won't use the term 'nerfs') hit the live servers. Keep it up!
Hi this is a great guide, just to clarify 18/22/20 is WIS/STR/CHA? and are you considering 22 STR for the critical? thank you very much for your efforts and for sharing
With AS how having a duration of 10s (instead of 15), I can only keep it up 67% of the time, and it also seems to me that divinity does not build up as rapidly as it did before....or maybe I am just mistaken. What this means is basically that keeping everyone alive is harder than before. I predict that some clerics with good gear, but limited skill will have serious problems soon.
That's what you're feeling in Divinity generation.
STR - 13
CON -13
DEX - 10
INT - 11
WIS - 17
CHA - 15
One into STR, CON and INT for even bonus? Rest into Wis and Cha?
Not that AS-related rant posts aren't important, mind you.
If you need an account, click here to sign up.
Ah, I had missed this one. Thanks.
Now, of more relevance to the original subject of this thread: Does it make sense to make any changes to the "typical" cleric build as a result of this change? Increase personal survivability by putting more into Deflection or Regeneration, ? Is the 4th Divinity pip now completely irrelevant as clerics will practically always have a Divinity shortage? Does it make sense to replace some of the feats?
It is burst damage that kills in this game, not relatively slow and small hits. Regeneration does not help at all with burst healing which both D-AS and FF provide sufficiently (barely), if you have them available and able to use them for that context.
Deflection is just a wasted stat if you do not already have stacked Defense.
So, Defense is still the best secondary stat, the gameplay value of Soulforged enchant and Holy Resolve goes through the roof as does anything that increases AP gain (rather than just Recharge Speed) and healing output, like Power.
Of course, if you find yourself consistently running around at less than max health, then something is indeed wrong and the value of Regeneration increases significantly, but more likely it is a gameplay issue.
In short, you cannot easily avoid Cryptic's intent to make everyone (i.e. a whole group) spend a lot of resources on potions and Injury kits. I think it is still do-able but certainly far from easy.
I found this after the nerf but I want to respec and I was looking around at where to put my points. This is very helpful. I can say that after the patch we don't hold as much aggro so I'm wondering if the points I originally put in Soothe should stay there.
I learned a lot of stuff I didn't know about feats and especially class features...
The AS nerf is frustrating but using some (or all) of your suggestions for respec, healing might just get a little more manageable for me. I'm still learning....
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
I LOLed so hard....
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
clericguide.com/feat-calculator-for-healing-specs/
Calculators to look at tooltips etc while not needing to be in game, very useful while reading different guides as a newer person.
Error establishing a database connection
LOL Me2
Ur fast as hell updating ur Threads---NOT
Cmon Faster Fanboi
Edit: Forgot to mention though, I'm PvE/PvP based so that def. is only around 2.2k in PvP which helps, and I'm diminished on crit/recov in PvP too (w/o the stone to help) so my power could easily be 7k but I enjoy PvP so its just under 6k, don't enjoy PvP as much as I used to before the nerf of AS though. I might take off def for hp if I think I really need it though, which is a no so far with this content, soloing CN w/o any deaths, same with my party.
As a completely new player to Neverwinter (and to the MMORPG scene in general), I just want to give a huge thank you to you for this informative guide. It has helped in answering questions and providing me with a better understanding of what the Devoted Cleric's primary jobs are or can be based on one's choice of growth.
Even with the supposed changes involving nerfing some of the Cleric's abilities (Astral Shield), I still find it very useful. I will have to Respect both my powers and feats accordingly; I really want to be an anchor for the players I play with, giving them boosts and increasing their survivability, and has helped me reduce the guilt when it comes to healing the random players I dungeon delve/skirmish with (the ones that for whatever reason, shrug the red circles that take away a chunk of their health).
Cleric: Marquis Elmdore - Current Main
Wizard: Iamblichus
Fighter: Anna the Titan
Barbarian: Anann Valkyrja
Ranger: Minerva Cory'phaia
Warlock: Suri Coralyne Reid
Guild: She Looked Level 18.
Alliance: Imperium
That's not a bad looking calculator. The 'human' button couldn't be toggled 'off' (after toggling it on) when I used it, but otherwise I liked it better than any of the other 3 or so popular ones I've seen.
Also, is the Miracle Healer's set still the best set we have? If Beacon isn't broken would it maybe be better? I don't know what the stats are on a full beacon set though so I dunno. I was just hoping that with Gauntlgrym out now, we'd have something better or at least a fix.