with T2 gear and a pair of very fancy and expensive pants and shirt.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I want this class in NW.
0
hinairusuMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
So I'm posting here because I believe Unspecifiederror can give me the best answer.
I'm attempting to build a Life Steal based cleric, using your feat choices/power loadouts. (So far, they seem the most sensible, and was almost identical to what I picked in the first place.)
So, In terms of gear, what should I be looking at, and how would you rate this type of build? Any modifications from what you have posted you could recommend?
mazaatMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 11Arc User
edited July 2013
You sir are a genius! This guide is the best guide i read, from all class guides on forums...
not only is very details, it's well written and **** friendly. I really like the fact that you explain WHY you took this and that instead of just posting. Again, great job! Ok with the sucking up, lol
You talk a lot about STR and CHA in your post, but WIS = power. So IF i understand you well, i should start with 16 WIS + 2 race, and let it be??? Putting level up points in STR + CHA?
Is it possible to get 16/15/13 (16 wis,15 cha , 13 str) roll? And how many points should i allocate for str and cha to get that 33% recharge speed and 27% crit chance ?
PS.Sry for my bad english.
Is it possible to get 16/15/13 (16 wis,15 cha , 13 str) roll? And how many points should i allocate for str and cha to get that 33% recharge speed and 27% crit chance ?
PS.Sry for my bad english.
As stated at the start of the OP, this guide is outdated. 33% recharge was practically mandatory when Astral Shield lasted 15 seconds. 33% rs got you a 15 sec cooldown ie 100% uptime on AS. Since AS now lasts 10 secs and divine versions don't stack, it isn't nearly as important as it was to hit 33% (32.5 for me actually) without buffs. Especially with linked spirit in the mix. Also don't forget that Intelligence also adds recharge speed %. As a tiefling I got 2 extra Char as a racial and chose 2 Intel as the bonus. My roll ended up as 18 wis / 15 char / 13 str (so same char and str you are asking about). As I levelled I pumped Wis/Str and left Char alone. So at 60 I have 17 Char. With this plus 12 Intelligence, I hit my soft cap on recovery with no problems at all and I also get past 30% crit very easily (without enchants, buffs etc). Also, when you respec, you can re-place ability points (NOT re-roll) so, I wouldn't spend too much time planning it all out. Hope that helps (and that you can understand what I wrote).
This shouldn't be too hard, I currently have the T1 PVP set and the rest green items. I also don't have any rank 5 or better enchants and I am sitting at 1602 Def.
Foundry - Fight Club? (nw-dluqbofu7)
- JailBreak (in development)
this guide is obviously a bit older....
it's still the best i have found online (if someone can point me to a similarly good DC guide, that would be highly appreciated).
so, astral shield can't be up 100% anymore, so that makes the gear & stat discussion less important.
but the purpose of me writing in this threat is a different one:
why is human the best race choice? ok, other races are similarly as good and it doesn't really matter, but i am a minmaxer and with the current value of WIS (main stat, but still inferior to STR/CHA) one might actually consider going down a different route....
considering that INT increases the recovery rate by 1% for each point, i would call it a tertiary ability. and with that, a human's 3 feat choice has to be able to compete with a 2 point gain in INT, or, in other words - are those 3 extra feats worth a +2% increase in recovery? the feat choices listed here say they would cap out the feat for divinity gain - but that's one feat point. and the remaining 2 points would go into cleansing, and at the same time the author says that 1 point is enough.
that said i am not sure those 3 feat points (of which only one seems to be super valuable) can compete with a raw 2% recovery increase....
any thoughts on this?
i also noticed that you can't roll 16/15/13/11/11/9 on WIS/CHA/STR/INT/CON/DEX. it never assigns the 15 to CHA. but 16/13/15/11/11/9 is good enough, i'd say....
now, add a high elf or tiefling on top with CHA/INT bonus and go STR/CHA all the way.
alternatively, roll 15/15/13/12/11/10 for replacing one WIS by one INT and for boosting CHA instead of STR in the beginning. personally i think i'd go for the other stat allocation, though...
this guide is obviously a bit older....
it's still the best i have found online (if someone can point me to a similarly good DC guide, that would be highly appreciated).
...
why is human the best race choice?
Yup, this is still the only well written PvE guide, despite being ancient.
Also, due to many changes, the value of CHA/RSI has diminished since this guide was written.
For PvE and general min-maxing purposes, Human is definitely NOT the optimal choice. The reason is because the 3 Heroic feat points and little bit of extra Defense ultimately do not matter. Unlike other classes, DC's only have 6-7 out of the 12 possible Heroic feats as actually useful. Large amount of Defense is also available from gear.
Hence the optimal races depend on your playstyle,
PvE tankiness + healing: Dwarf (due to CON/STR or CON/WIS) and Half-Elf (CON/WIS).
PvE maximal output: Sun Elf (due to +4% RSI, +4% AP).
PvP: Halfling (due to DEX/CON + Deflection bonus for Sentinel DC).
Note in general, the race differences in PvE are small to very small. But the race and ability score differences in PvP are huge! This is why a good safe choice overall, is Halfling with PvP racials, then select PvE Ability Scores while levelling. So, you can always respec later to optimal PvP or some tanky PvE, if necessary.
Yup, this is still the only well written PvE guide, despite being ancient.
Also, due to many changes, the value of CHA/RSI has greatly diminished since this guide was written.
For PvE and general min-maxing purposes, Human is definitely NOT the optimal choice. The reason is because the 3 Heroic feat points and little bit of extra Defense ultimately do not matter. Unlike other classes, DC's only have 6-7 out of the 12 possible Heroic feats as actually useful.
I thought so - though it's very reassuring to read some confirmation from an experienced player. I was already wondering where i should place my 3 feats. Some detailed guide e.g. recommended Domain Synergy. 3% increase in recovery stat will not even give you 0.5% real value recovery .... ok, other guides might recommend other feats, but i was already leaning towards the sun elf...
is WIS still inferior to STR/CHA? i heard it got empowered a bit, so i consider pushing WIS/STR during leveling ... (planning to start with the 16/15/13/11/10/10 array)
PvE maximal output: Sun Elf (due to +4% RSI, +4% AP).
PvE tankiness + healing: Dwarf (due to CON/STR or CON/WIS) and Half-Elf (CON/WIS).
PvP: Halfling (due to DEX/CON + Deflection bonus for Sentinel DC).
Note in general, the race differences in PvE are small to very small. But the race and ability score differences in PvP are huge! This is why a good safe choice overall, is Halfling with PvP racials, then select PvE Ability Scores while levelling. So, you can always respec later to optimal PvP or some tanky PvE, if necessary.
uh, ok, that is new to me and valuable information! though i guess i'd rather have a minmaxed PvE char in one account and a minmaxed PvP char in another. and i am rather the PvE type player anyway...
but that is good to know. i wouldn't have thought the difference so big...
Dex/Con halfling PvP cleric basically exploits the fact that halflings get bonus deflect and CC resist, AND extra dex and con, and that dex and con boost deflect and defense+HP, respectively.
Since DCs contribute heals AND mitigation, and mitigation doesn't scale with any stat whatsoever (and is awesome), this all combines to make an unkillable trolltank cleric with insane deflect and damage reduction. Yeah, it's a cleric that doesn't heal as much, but it's a cleric that is almost impossible to kill even by ganging up on it, which in the long run is a lot more useful than a cleric that heals more per heal but spends most of the match respawning. Wisdom really isn't that great, ultimately.
Honestly, given how crazy PvP is for crowd control and spike damage, halfling is pretty much the best class for everyone except perhaps CWs: rogues love them some dex, and GF/GWFs love them some con, and EVERYONE loves deflect.
I suspect the devs are having a good long look at the way PvP plays, since "everyone be a midget" is a kinda strange metagame.
Statwise, if all you want is a perfectly servicable PvE cleric, then you don't really need to worry too much. PvE mobs don't do anything like the spike damage or CC you'll experience in PvP, so you can just pump Str/Wis/Cha to "anything around 18-21 or so".
The PvE gains you'll get from absolute focussed ZOMG MINMAXING are so slight that you're much better off just picking a race you like the look of and allocating stats roughly between str/wis and cha, with maybe some con thrown in for a little extra tankiness, if you want. Gear makes much more of a difference to how successful you'll be, as does just being better at the class. Minmaxing helps very little if you're not good at dodging red stuff.
is WIS still inferior to STR/CHA? i heard it got empowered a bit, so i consider pushing WIS/STR during leveling ... (planning to start with the 16/15/13/11/10/10 array)
Assuming we are talking pure PvE here now,
No, WIS is a solid sat. You would notice a difference between 20 and 24 WIS, for example, in terms of your actual healing values. For pure PvE, WIS > STR > CHA, but you do not *need* more than 20-24 WIS due to most of your output being mitigation. Large Recovery/RSI values are obtainable from gear and pets. Critical Strike on the other hand is hit extremely hard by diminishing returns. Hence, once you have sufficient WIS, STR point for point makes the biggest difference due to crit healing, Repurpose Soul, divinity from crits, stamina regeneration and no diminshing returns.
morsitans: i am not super good skill wise, but i want to maximize chances of having a successful dungeon run and if a good stat allocation and race choice helps, then i'd like to do everything right from the start
No, WIS is a solid sat. You would notice a difference between 20 and 24 WIS, for example, in terms of your actual healing values. For pure PvE, WIS > STR > CHA, but you do not *need* more than 20-24 WIS due to most of your output being mitigation. Large Recovery/RSI values are obtainable from gear and pets. Critical Strike on the other hand is hit extremely hard by diminishing returns. Hence, once you have sufficient WIS, STR point for point makes the biggest difference due to crit healing, Repurpose Soul, divinity from crits, stamina regeneration and no diminshing returns.
i see, STR is clearly sold to me, proccing feats is valuable. CHA still sounds good to me, but i assume that the healing bonus of WIS is applied after all calculations w.r.t. power are done, right, i.e., is multiplicative? unlike CHA, which provides a bonus which is added to the one recovery gives, right? otherwise WIS would be of less value in my eyes, since higher CHA also means providing mitigation more often (plus it helps our pets )
but i assume that the healing bonus of WIS is applied after all calculations w.r.t. power are done, right, i.e., is multiplicative? unlike CHA, which provides a bonus which is added to the one recovery gives, right? otherwise WIS would be of less value in my eyes, since higher CHA also means providing mitigation more often (plus it helps our pets )
Yes, it is multiplicative and shows directly in all tooltips for Powers. You can test this yourself with respecs (especially free ones on Preview) or potions that add +1 to Ability Scores.
The companion bonus from CHA applies only to the base stats of pets, not to any stats from items or runestones they have. Thus, it is not a particularly useful bonus at all.
ah... many thanks about the help - i think i know now which route to go
(decided for high elf with 16/15/13/11 start stats, pumping STR and WIS as i go. a 16/16/12 human would have 3 more strength and 3 feats more, but the high elf gets 6% more RSI, guess that's a good deal; no plans for PvP in the nigh future)
Very very good guide that lays out some of the problems with clerics and the feats of which I haven't thought. Very thorough and (mostly) an easy read. Thanks so much!
Don't know if it is mentioned in the 14+ pages, but Astral Shield is a 17.6 second cooldown (without modifiers) and has a duration of 10 secs, not 15. So spec and gear and caps may change.
dude, look at the date of the original post. It's from last May. And if you had read any of the 14 pages, you would know that the AS cooldown and duration has mentioned over and over...................and over and over.......................yeah.....
Comments
I want this class in NW.
I'm attempting to build a Life Steal based cleric, using your feat choices/power loadouts. (So far, they seem the most sensible, and was almost identical to what I picked in the first place.)
So, In terms of gear, what should I be looking at, and how would you rate this type of build? Any modifications from what you have posted you could recommend?
Endgame skills should look like this:
http://nwcalc.com/dc?b=oe5:3qtwz:b75f,1x0i3j2:66000:6z50u:6z000&h=0
Unless you can recommend any changes?
~ Hinairusu
not only is very details, it's well written and **** friendly. I really like the fact that you explain WHY you took this and that instead of just posting. Again, great job! Ok with the sucking up, lol
You talk a lot about STR and CHA in your post, but WIS = power. So IF i understand you well, i should start with 16 WIS + 2 race, and let it be??? Putting level up points in STR + CHA?
Can't wait for your post-patch update...
PS.Sry for my bad english.
As stated at the start of the OP, this guide is outdated. 33% recharge was practically mandatory when Astral Shield lasted 15 seconds. 33% rs got you a 15 sec cooldown ie 100% uptime on AS. Since AS now lasts 10 secs and divine versions don't stack, it isn't nearly as important as it was to hit 33% (32.5 for me actually) without buffs. Especially with linked spirit in the mix. Also don't forget that Intelligence also adds recharge speed %. As a tiefling I got 2 extra Char as a racial and chose 2 Intel as the bonus. My roll ended up as 18 wis / 15 char / 13 str (so same char and str you are asking about). As I levelled I pumped Wis/Str and left Char alone. So at 60 I have 17 Char. With this plus 12 Intelligence, I hit my soft cap on recovery with no problems at all and I also get past 30% crit very easily (without enchants, buffs etc). Also, when you respec, you can re-place ability points (NOT re-roll) so, I wouldn't spend too much time planning it all out. Hope that helps (and that you can understand what I wrote).
- JailBreak (in development)
it's still the best i have found online (if someone can point me to a similarly good DC guide, that would be highly appreciated).
so, astral shield can't be up 100% anymore, so that makes the gear & stat discussion less important.
but the purpose of me writing in this threat is a different one:
why is human the best race choice? ok, other races are similarly as good and it doesn't really matter, but i am a minmaxer and with the current value of WIS (main stat, but still inferior to STR/CHA) one might actually consider going down a different route....
considering that INT increases the recovery rate by 1% for each point, i would call it a tertiary ability. and with that, a human's 3 feat choice has to be able to compete with a 2 point gain in INT, or, in other words - are those 3 extra feats worth a +2% increase in recovery? the feat choices listed here say they would cap out the feat for divinity gain - but that's one feat point. and the remaining 2 points would go into cleansing, and at the same time the author says that 1 point is enough.
that said i am not sure those 3 feat points (of which only one seems to be super valuable) can compete with a raw 2% recovery increase....
any thoughts on this?
i also noticed that you can't roll 16/15/13/11/11/9 on WIS/CHA/STR/INT/CON/DEX. it never assigns the 15 to CHA. but 16/13/15/11/11/9 is good enough, i'd say....
now, add a high elf or tiefling on top with CHA/INT bonus and go STR/CHA all the way.
alternatively, roll 15/15/13/12/11/10 for replacing one WIS by one INT and for boosting CHA instead of STR in the beginning. personally i think i'd go for the other stat allocation, though...
Yup, this is still the only well written PvE guide, despite being ancient.
Also, due to many changes, the value of CHA/RSI has diminished since this guide was written.
For PvE and general min-maxing purposes, Human is definitely NOT the optimal choice. The reason is because the 3 Heroic feat points and little bit of extra Defense ultimately do not matter. Unlike other classes, DC's only have 6-7 out of the 12 possible Heroic feats as actually useful. Large amount of Defense is also available from gear.
Hence the optimal races depend on your playstyle,
PvE tankiness + healing: Dwarf (due to CON/STR or CON/WIS) and Half-Elf (CON/WIS).
PvE maximal output: Sun Elf (due to +4% RSI, +4% AP).
PvP: Halfling (due to DEX/CON + Deflection bonus for Sentinel DC).
Note in general, the race differences in PvE are small to very small. But the race and ability score differences in PvP are huge! This is why a good safe choice overall, is Halfling with PvP racials, then select PvE Ability Scores while levelling. So, you can always respec later to optimal PvP or some tanky PvE, if necessary.
is WIS still inferior to STR/CHA? i heard it got empowered a bit, so i consider pushing WIS/STR during leveling ... (planning to start with the 16/15/13/11/10/10 array)
uh, ok, that is new to me and valuable information! though i guess i'd rather have a minmaxed PvE char in one account and a minmaxed PvP char in another. and i am rather the PvE type player anyway...
but that is good to know. i wouldn't have thought the difference so big...
Since DCs contribute heals AND mitigation, and mitigation doesn't scale with any stat whatsoever (and is awesome), this all combines to make an unkillable trolltank cleric with insane deflect and damage reduction. Yeah, it's a cleric that doesn't heal as much, but it's a cleric that is almost impossible to kill even by ganging up on it, which in the long run is a lot more useful than a cleric that heals more per heal but spends most of the match respawning. Wisdom really isn't that great, ultimately.
Honestly, given how crazy PvP is for crowd control and spike damage, halfling is pretty much the best class for everyone except perhaps CWs: rogues love them some dex, and GF/GWFs love them some con, and EVERYONE loves deflect.
I suspect the devs are having a good long look at the way PvP plays, since "everyone be a midget" is a kinda strange metagame.
Statwise, if all you want is a perfectly servicable PvE cleric, then you don't really need to worry too much. PvE mobs don't do anything like the spike damage or CC you'll experience in PvP, so you can just pump Str/Wis/Cha to "anything around 18-21 or so".
The PvE gains you'll get from absolute focussed ZOMG MINMAXING are so slight that you're much better off just picking a race you like the look of and allocating stats roughly between str/wis and cha, with maybe some con thrown in for a little extra tankiness, if you want. Gear makes much more of a difference to how successful you'll be, as does just being better at the class. Minmaxing helps very little if you're not good at dodging red stuff.
Assuming we are talking pure PvE here now,
No, WIS is a solid sat. You would notice a difference between 20 and 24 WIS, for example, in terms of your actual healing values. For pure PvE, WIS > STR > CHA, but you do not *need* more than 20-24 WIS due to most of your output being mitigation. Large Recovery/RSI values are obtainable from gear and pets. Critical Strike on the other hand is hit extremely hard by diminishing returns. Hence, once you have sufficient WIS, STR point for point makes the biggest difference due to crit healing, Repurpose Soul, divinity from crits, stamina regeneration and no diminshing returns.
i see, STR is clearly sold to me, proccing feats is valuable. CHA still sounds good to me, but i assume that the healing bonus of WIS is applied after all calculations w.r.t. power are done, right, i.e., is multiplicative? unlike CHA, which provides a bonus which is added to the one recovery gives, right? otherwise WIS would be of less value in my eyes, since higher CHA also means providing mitigation more often (plus it helps our pets
Yes, it is multiplicative and shows directly in all tooltips for Powers. You can test this yourself with respecs (especially free ones on Preview) or potions that add +1 to Ability Scores.
The companion bonus from CHA applies only to the base stats of pets, not to any stats from items or runestones they have. Thus, it is not a particularly useful bonus at all.
(decided for high elf with 16/15/13/11 start stats, pumping STR and WIS as i go. a 16/16/12 human would have 3 more strength and 3 feats more, but the high elf gets 6% more RSI, guess that's a good deal; no plans for PvP in the nigh future)
Don't know if it is mentioned in the 14+ pages, but Astral Shield is a 17.6 second cooldown (without modifiers) and has a duration of 10 secs, not 15. So spec and gear and caps may change.