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Help me understand how this is balanced.

monarrchmonarrch Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 164 Bounty Hunter
edited June 2013 in PvE Discussion
"GF" deals 9856 (12767) Physical to you with Bull Charge.

"GF" deals 7865 (11899) Physical to you with Lunging Strike.

"GF" deals 8796 (12654) Physical to you with Bull Charge.

"GF" deals 8769 (11876) Physical to you with Bull Charge.


I was getting hit like this all night by various GFs in PvP tonight. I took those numbers straight from my combat log...how in the hell can a tanking class hit like that? I dont want to hear that "Oh dude, 4 strength 4 stam leather belt, uhuuuu, ahhhhhh" HAMSTER about gear either. I dont care if he has the best in game in every slot, you cannot have plate wearing, high health classes doing that kind of damage. Is this not the very definition of Over Powered? They have spam block, spam charge and take the longest of any class to bring down and this is how you allow them to perform damage wise??!?! This is straight up BS PWE...straight up BS.
Post edited by monarrch on
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Comments

  • maximiliousmaximilious Member Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I think I smell bull**** :)

    there are 12-15 seconds cd on those skills.

    "they have spam block"

    LOLOLOLOL are you trolling me? couple range attacks and our block is gone.... LOL

    spam charge? LOL again, we have long cooldowns on our skills, except our at will charger WHICH IS LOW RANGE.

    can you please play the class before you start talking ****?

    thank you.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • titanv2titanv2 Member Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    with 4 programmers and 2 devs, balance is hard to accomplish in a timely manner
  • wrannecwrannec Member Posts: 38
    edited June 2013
    As a GF myself, what you just described cannot be done, simply because there's so much cooldown on the skills.

    A GF can do that much damage with the Timeless hero set (it stacks alot of crit), but there's not many GF's that have the full set.

    Oh, and we can't spam block. The shield will break down at some point. And we cannot spam charge skills (hence the cooldown man!)
  • lerdocixlerdocix Member Posts: 897 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Knights challenge perhaps?
  • degraafinationdegraafination Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Knight's Challenge allows for double damage. If you have a red beam on you, be mindful. I played around with this today. No KC = long time to kill. KC + Crit = 1, 2 and 3 shotting. My GS is 11.4k, which is pretty low for a GF. No Tenny, Rank 4 enchantments, piecemeal T1/T2 gear. All in all, I'm undergeared, but it can still go down with the right skill combinations.
    PWP_zpsf8f711ce.jpg
    Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
  • monarrchmonarrch Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 164 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    maximilious wrote: »
    I think I smell bull**** :)

    there are 12-15 seconds cd on those skills.

    "they have spam block"

    LOLOLOLOL are you trolling me? couple range attacks and our block is gone.... LOL

    spam charge? LOL again, we have long cooldowns on our skills, except our at will charger WHICH IS LOW RANGE.

    can you please play the class before you start talking ****?

    thank you.


    Hey tard, did I say they hit like that back to back, no. I said I was hit like that through out the night by VARIOUS Gfs., I never said one hit me back to back like that. Read much? Try actually reading the post before talking ****.
  • maximiliousmaximilious Member Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    monarrch wrote: »
    Hey tard, did I say they hit like that back to back, no. I said I was hit like that through out the night by VARIOUS Gfs., I never said one hit me back to back like that. Read much? Try actually reading the post before talking ****.

    hey terd,

    I get hit by rogues and CWs for 60% of my life with one of their skills, you don't see me crying about that do you?

    So you get hit hard sometimes by GFs? so what? They are running a DAMAGE build since that's the most reliable build in the game for both pvp and pve.

    Go cry a river for something worth it.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • yushirokaneyushirokane Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    monarrch wrote: »
    "GF" deals 9856 (12767) Physical to you with Bull Charge.

    "GF" deals 7865 (11899) Physical to you with Lunging Strike.

    "GF" deals 8796 (12654) Physical to you with Bull Charge.

    "GF" deals 8769 (11876) Physical to you with Bull Charge.


    I was getting hit like this all night by various GFs in PvP tonight. I took those numbers straight from my combat log...how in the hell can a tanking class hit like that? I dont want to hear that "Oh dude, 4 strength 4 stam leather belt, uhuuuu, ahhhhhh" HAMSTER about gear either. I dont care if he has the best in game in every slot, you cannot have plate wearing, high health classes doing that kind of damage. Is this not the very definition of Over Powered? They have spam block, spam charge and take the longest of any class to bring down and this is how you allow them to perform damage wise??!?! This is straight up BS PWE...straight up BS.


    Welcome to the 6 tenebrous slotted world, any class can do that, believe is worst with rogues and knife spamming. You just got in the way of a Timeless set with 6 tenebrous GF. And fyi tankyness has no use in v, dailies kill us as fast as if we were clothes, and block not only last 2 hts (CW can dodge 6 times in a row lmao) but anulates our last tree skill of 100% power if all block is full.
    You sound to me you have no idea and is just another wine.
  • diogene0diogene0 Member Posts: 2,894 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Knockbacks and stuns are a pain in the *** in this game in pvp. I wish the devs implemented a KB/stun resist for 20-30s when we get one. It makes the game unplayable when you're the healer, because you're the primary target, permastunned by GWFs, GF and CWs as soon as they see you, and you won't escape all this HAMSTER with two poor dodges. Let people play the game, being the punching bag isn't really interesting!
  • etherealjetherealj Member Posts: 1,091 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    The only class that can't shred people atm is DC. Everything else is capable of some pretty silly burst.

    Given how mediocre GF survivability is in pvp, I'm not sure what you actually want the class to be in the end. I'd trade block for dodge in a heartbeat too.
    Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
  • uncag3duncag3d Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    wrannec wrote: »
    As a GF myself, what you just described cannot be done, simply because there's so much cooldown on the skills.

    A GF can do that much damage with the Timeless hero set (it stacks alot of crit), but there's not many GF's that have the full set.

    Oh, and we can't spam block. The shield will break down at some point. And we cannot spam charge skills (hence the cooldown man!)

    lol stal set hits wayyyyyyyyyy harder then timeless ever can.. i hit a 53k on a green beamed target
    FearITsSelf #1 GF
    From #1 Guild Pve/Pvp [ Lemonade Stand ]
  • karsuskkarsusk Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    maximilious wrote: »
    hey terd,

    I get hit by rogues and CWs for 60% of my life with one of their skills, you and now i'm crying about it.

    So you get hit hard sometimes by GFs? so what? They are running a DAMAGE build since that's the most reliable build in the game for both pvp and pve.

    Go cry a river for something worth it.

    Now its Fixed
  • karsuskkarsusk Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    And as an experienced pvp player, I can say that rogues don't have the tool belt to deal with the keep you on the ground GF's. Hope every other class likes stealth rogues, if you thought it was bad before its about to be redic
  • chodermenchodermen Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    he prolly has high enchants
  • perfectindigoperfectindigo Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    If you facetank a dps GF, they have a decent chance at taking you out, as most of their skills are designed for hurting things standing right in front of them and mitigating damage from things standing right in front of them. Want to kill a GF? Ambush them. Create an advantage that prevents them from running their dps rotation while mitigating your attacks, which is the exact same way you kill any other dps. Consider bringing 1 other player and attack from 2 directions. GF guard is useless facing enemies from more than 1 direction.

    The game isn't 1v1 pvp. It's 5v5 domination, not standing in place and each hitting damage rotations that have no interrupts, no dodge, no stun, no block, no strategy, no tactics, and just waiting for the person with the highest raw dps to win.
  • wrannecwrannec Member Posts: 38
    edited June 2013
    uncag3d wrote: »
    lol stal set hits wayyyyyyyyyy harder then timeless ever can.. i hit a 53k on a green beamed target

    In PvE The stal set is better than timeless. In PvP - Not so much.
  • quitegonejinquitegonejin Member Posts: 3
    edited June 2013
    maximilious wrote: »
    hey terd,

    I get hit by rogues and CWs for 60% of my life with one of their skills, you don't see me crying about that do you?

    So you get hit hard sometimes by GFs? so what? They are running a DAMAGE build since that's the most reliable build in the game for both pvp and pve.

    Go cry a river for something worth it.
    This, there's so many other things actually worth complaining about. STFU and leave the GF's alone. Or learn what your enemies can do so you don't suck anymore. And yes, you do suck if THIS is what you cry about
  • uncag3duncag3d Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    wrannec wrote: »
    In PvE The stal set is better than timeless. In PvP - Not so much.
    thats a 53k in pvp i hit a 198k in pve (those my top crits) timeless is **** worthless set you deal less dmg an you take more dmg lol GG
    FearITsSelf #1 GF
    From #1 Guild Pve/Pvp [ Lemonade Stand ]
  • wrannecwrannec Member Posts: 38
    edited June 2013
    uncag3d wrote: »
    thats a 53k in pvp i hit a 198k in pve (those my top crits) timeless is **** worthless set you deal less dmg an you take more dmg lol GG

    Are you saying you crit for 198k in pve? If so, i would like to se some pics. Never heard of anyone crit for that amount
  • therouterninjatherouterninja Member Posts: 114 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    1. It's the conq spec, which is literally the *only* viable path in PvP, for a tank to go completely DPS. We didn't ask for this....most people rolled a GF to tank, not run around shield bashing people. How would you like it if you rolled DPS, and then found at high level you have to spec as tank?

    2. Our DPS even then on single abilities comes nowhere close to TR and CW. We have hit our entire line of encounters+daily to come close to one hit of ice knife or SE.

    3. These abilities on their own usually don't do this kind of damage unless you're wearing paper bags.

    4. They're probably using knight's challenge, in which case use your classes abilities/dailies and just own them before they can hit you. It's a gimmicky build which isn't all that

    5. If you're getting hit by multiple GF's...guess what, you're outnumbered, and will die anyways. This should happen no matter what class you're playing.
    Beholder MOPP4

    60 GF(14.5GS) Cersei
    60 CW(12.4GS) Shadis
    60 TR(12.2GS) Dijkstra
    60 GWF(12.2GS) Winnowill
    45 DC(WIP) Daenerys
  • abombination247abombination247 Member Posts: 1,279 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    monarrch wrote: »
    Hey tard, did I say they hit like that back to back, no. I said I was hit like that through out the night by VARIOUS Gfs., I never said one hit me back to back like that. Read much? Try actually reading the post before talking ****.

    I am a GF its my main. I mainly PvP. Yes we are supposed to hit like that. You are supposed to use tactics and kite and stay out of his way of Bull rush. Which is on a 9 sec CD with high recovery. 9 sec. So just be mindful of there skills and CD times. Ill help you out. 6sec lunge/ 9 sec bull rush. / frontline surge. 15 sec. This is there main set up. This is with good recovery and good gear. Yea I 3shot and punt ppl around the screen I am supposed to. I specced Dps I have 25str and stack arm pen with 6k power. I should hit like that. I don't see the problem honestly. The new balance changes are great.
  • ifthirifthir Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 281 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    yushirokane wrote: »
    Welcome to the 6 tenebrous slotted world, any class can do that, believe is worst with rogues and knife spamming. You just got in the way of a Timeless set with 6 tenebrous GF.

    Tenebrous logs in combat log, not as part of the damage from the skill. Please stop spreading misinfo.
  • maximiliousmaximilious Member Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    ifthir wrote: »
    Tenebrous logs in combat log, not as part of the damage from the skill. Please stop spreading misinfo.

    THIS!

    Seriously, people are so butthurt about tene enchants its hilarious.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • therouterninjatherouterninja Member Posts: 114 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    ifthir wrote: »
    Tenebrous logs in combat log, not as part of the damage from the skill. Please stop spreading misinfo.

    ^ This is the first thing I thought. Either way, the damage seems fine with knights challenge. Remember the damage goes both ways.
    Beholder MOPP4

    60 GF(14.5GS) Cersei
    60 CW(12.4GS) Shadis
    60 TR(12.2GS) Dijkstra
    60 GWF(12.2GS) Winnowill
    45 DC(WIP) Daenerys
  • abombination247abombination247 Member Posts: 1,279 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    I do this damage without Knights challenge and without Tene enchants. A lot of GF's socket pure Arm pen especially early which makes all there main encounters hurt like heck. Add a plague fire enchant dropping more def and basically I am hitting you with 0 defense. Its nothing shocking here lets move along :)
  • synozeersynozeer Member Posts: 185 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I've tested and seen played several sets/builds in PvP and come to the conclusion that it really doesn't matter what set you have or how you optimize. All you need are Greater Tenebrouses in your offensive slots and the rest is just flavor.

    Stalwart requires too specific of circumstances to get that optimal power, and even when you do that and let's say you are at a whopping 20k power that's only about 600hp extra damage. Not only that, but Stalwart doesn't mesh well with how GF is played in Pvp - GF often gets in the first strike and stunlocks the opponent, giving no opportunity for Stalwart to proc.

    Timeless only gives you the maximum crit bonus at the end of your dps routine and crit is random so you can't depend on it.

    If Tenebrous gets nerfed, then what armor set/build you use will become important, but for now it really doesn't make much of a difference. And yes, I use 6 Tenebrous.
    Guild: Chocolate Stand | Main: Hzarn (GF)/Danteel (HR) | Watch PvP Videos
  • abombination247abombination247 Member Posts: 1,279 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    synozeer wrote: »
    I've tested and seen played several sets/builds in PvP and come to the conclusion that it really doesn't matter what set you have or how you optimize. All you need are Greater Tenebrouses in your offensive slots and the rest is just flavor.

    Stalwart requires too specific of circumstances to get that optimal power, and even when you do that and let's say you are at a whopping 20k power that's only about 600hp extra damage. Not only that, but Stalwart doesn't mesh well with how GF is played in Pvp - GF often gets in the first strike and stunlocks the opponent, giving no opportunity for Stalwart to proc.

    Timeless only gives you the maximum crit bonus at the end of your dps routine and crit is random so you can't depend on it.

    If Tenebrous gets nerfed, then what armor set/build you use will become important, but for now it really doesn't make much of a difference. And yes, I use 6 Tenebrous.

    Good solid points. Your a GF ? Also is your Tene if it stays the same always Optimum you feel? I have been reading a lot in to Arm pen and some feel for dps that is the way to go. Thoughts as I do not have Tene's and socket pure Arm Pen atm offensive. Also I am newer and by far not rich to run Tene or stack them. Just curious your thought if you feel at the moment its always end enchants.
  • synozeersynozeer Member Posts: 185 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    abombination247 wrote: »
    Good solid points. Your a GF ? Also is your Tene if it stays the same always Optimum you feel? I have been reading a lot in to Arm pen and some feel for dps that is the way to go. Thoughts as I do not have Tene's and socket pure Arm Pen atm offensive. Also I am newer and by far not rich to run Tene or stack them. Just curious your thought if you feel at the moment its always end enchants.

    Yes, I play a GF. For PvP, Tenebrous is the optimal enchantment to use as it's top heavy burst damage. You want to kill your opponent as quickly as possible, and for a GF, that's mainly through your encounter (also burst) powers.

    ArPen is a strong stat but there's too many advantages to Tenebrous - necrotic damage (so it acts as if it's got 100% ArPen already), can trigger even after you attack via Plague Fire, does a large amount of damage at one time, and isn't dependent on how much you're hitting them for (i.e. you can hit them for 100 damage and then proc your Tenebrouses for another 5k while ArPen will just do a % extra damage for removing defense). It is based on your current health, so if you've taken a lot of damage then it won't as effective. But a GF is all about striking first and striking last before your opponent can react, so in most instances your health won't be an issue.

    I don't know if new gear introduced into the game will change anything but it's certainly possible. I wouldn't be against a nerf because it would make the games more interesting and gear choices/strategy more important.
    Guild: Chocolate Stand | Main: Hzarn (GF)/Danteel (HR) | Watch PvP Videos
  • ifthirifthir Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 281 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    I think I've gotten hit with 4 greater tenebrous procs at about 483 damage each. Worst I've been hit.

    Ezrial had this and it wasn't bad except he could hold me when ITC was off cooldown while his TR groupmate lashing bladed me.

    It wasn't the tenebrous that was the problem ;)
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited June 2013
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