how do you figure, now theyve now made it to where people will take 2 DC for 100% uptime on AS vs it stacking.
Great. So you're sacrificing a slot in your party for a sub-optimal second cleric, just to keep AS up constantly, instead of letting a Smokescreen or Blackhole+Push make up for the downtime of AS.
Many people have done CN with only one cleric with and without recovery. It is entirely possible to chain skills together so that, when AS isn't up, the adds cannot attack.
I play cleric as my main otherwise I wouldn't post. I also have a GF 60 and have run all T2/CN on the test server from both perspectives. Clerics work much less now to keep everyone alive as the GF controls most of the adds now. When AS isn't up sure tanks HP drops but you can't just stand a face tank like most parties have been doing with dual AS. Everyone has to work together now instead of rolling easy mode. Every single dungeon was WAY to easy prior to these changes. All that really needs to be done now is slight tweaks to the adds on boss fights.
actualy the only tank you can trust is a wizard...sad fact.
Everyone has to work together now instead of rolling easy mode
Oh that's a good thing, I'm totaly with you on this, but I want you to note that it works when you have either a disciplinate group or you are able to speak and make yourself understand by others; is not always possible, I'm in a guild, we got team speak while dungeoning, I suppose you are in a similar condiction, but try to imagine a bit what hell is for a cleric go in a random group?
I tried it, AS seems to calm most of the people, for some reason, if it disappear they start paniking (even after explain the effect least a bit longer than the circle on the ground).
Is good for you? cool, but is not good for everyone, as it is it makes healing work too messy for a cleric in a non guild group (and most of the time even with guild group if the party is still not well geared).
At least I hope they reduce the base cooldown if they want keep it to 10 sec. duration, give the possibility to keep up with that if enough recovery is invested.
Same for other healing abilities, a bit less cooldown would be welcomed and appreciated.
how do you figure, now theyve now made it to where people will take 2 DC for 100% uptime on AS vs it stacking.
You've not heard of a GF encounter called knights valor. It intercepts 50% of all incoming damage to party members on a 9 second CD and it generates threat. Also I'd like to point out that you will NOT be pulling threat from a GF that uses enforced threat and knights valor on CD. GF's are now a mandatory party member. I have both lvl 60 cleric and a lvl 60 GF and I think everything will be fine.
You've not heard of a GF encounter called knights valor. It intercepts 50% of all incoming damage to party members on a 9 second CD and it generates threat. Also I'd like to point out that you will NOT be pulling threat from a GF that uses enforced threat and knights valor on CD. GF's are now a mandatory party member. I have both lvl 60 cleric and a lvl 60 GF and I think everything will be fine.
How will the cleric fair in PvP with only a 66% or so uptime in Astral shield?
You've not heard of a GF encounter called knights valor. It intercepts 50% of all incoming damage to party members on a 9 second CD and it generates threat. Also I'd like to point out that you will NOT be pulling threat from a GF that uses enforced threat and knights valor on CD. GF's are now a mandatory party member. I have both lvl 60 cleric and a lvl 60 GF and I think everything will be fine.
My husband has a GF and a cleric at 60. He has abandoned his cleric after the announcement of the patch and has gone back to his GF.
As an aside, Knight's Valor is bugged and there are several threads about it:
They fixed the bug where it dodnt' affect all party members, but you're right it does still have a double CD......so it's every 18-20 seconds instead 9-10 like it should be...That needs fixed ASAP.
The fact is, clerics were boring before the patch, and now with this stupid as hell change its even worse. Sigh, an action MMO and no action.
How were they boring? How is it going to be worse? How does not having a circle you're encouraged to stand in 100% of the time NOT encourage movement and action?
That doesn't make any sense.
-Campaign: Spells and Coin
--Part 1: Spells and Coin (NW-DHM3XQVQK)
--Part 2: A Blind Eye (NW-DI3QTHZGJ)
--Part 3: Dodo's Dinner (NW-DHPA8O253)
How were they boring? How is it going to be worse? How does not having a circle you're encouraged to stand in 100% of the time NOT encourage movement and action?
That doesn't make any sense.
Because we had 1 encounter that was remotely good at keeping a group in a dungeon alive, now that one skill that made us at least feel needed is worse. DC are by a wide margin the worst healers in any MMO I've played. They give up so much balance wise for heals and honestly it isn't worth it.
That doesn't make them boring or take the action element out. It in fact, encourages more, smart movement from both the cleric and the party.
From what I've heard on test, with the improvements to aggro and Fighters, it's not that big a deal with a decent group.
Perhaps in lower end dungeons or incredibly overgeared guild groups, but in dungeons where adds hit stupidly hard and AS is on cooldown, people die. Clerics still get aggro unless someone does something otherwise to gain aggro. Even if they gain aggro if AS is on cooldown they take a truckload of damage that clerics can do barely anything about. The result is people screaming for heals when the cleric simply cannot heal. It's poorly balanced, the DC cannot outheal the damage coming in so the best option is to mitigate it. AS covers both of those and that's why it was good, however with a big gap in coverage they lose both mitigation and healing. There isn't even a combination of encounters that cover what AS does and that's why clerics are upset. We had 1 good tool and that got nerfed, that leaves a lot of clerics frustrated.
What needs to happen is: A. Mob damage is reduced B. Defensive stats are buffed to better mitigate damage or C. Clerics are given heals that can actually keep a party alive. I don't know why Cryptic is so scared of giving clerics the tools to do their job. If they don't want clerics being able to keep a party alive they need compensated with more damage or survivability.
Cleric has always required "smart" movement, aka run in a circle until you can dodge+cast. The only difference now is that if other classes get aggro they get to do it too while the DC feels frustrated from their heals being absolute HAMSTER. It is BORING and frustrating, at least before my AS made me feel useful all the time whilst being bored kiting adds.
Comments
how do you figure, now theyve now made it to where people will take 2 DC for 100% uptime on AS vs it stacking.
Great. So you're sacrificing a slot in your party for a sub-optimal second cleric, just to keep AS up constantly, instead of letting a Smokescreen or Blackhole+Push make up for the downtime of AS.
Many people have done CN with only one cleric with and without recovery. It is entirely possible to chain skills together so that, when AS isn't up, the adds cannot attack.
TL;DR: Learn to play.
So.. you are just say that cleric have to give up the survivability of the whole group leaving they opened to attack, and trust in the skill of a GF? in a perfect world sure; shame that the GF has a lot of problem tanking when mobs start to push:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?330782-From-a-GF-Mob-Knockbacks-are-Silly
actualy the only tank you can trust is a wizard...sad fact.
Oh that's a good thing, I'm totaly with you on this, but I want you to note that it works when you have either a disciplinate group or you are able to speak and make yourself understand by others; is not always possible, I'm in a guild, we got team speak while dungeoning, I suppose you are in a similar condiction, but try to imagine a bit what hell is for a cleric go in a random group?
I tried it, AS seems to calm most of the people, for some reason, if it disappear they start paniking (even after explain the effect least a bit longer than the circle on the ground).
Is good for you? cool, but is not good for everyone, as it is it makes healing work too messy for a cleric in a non guild group (and most of the time even with guild group if the party is still not well geared).
At least I hope they reduce the base cooldown if they want keep it to 10 sec. duration, give the possibility to keep up with that if enough recovery is invested.
Same for other healing abilities, a bit less cooldown would be welcomed and appreciated.
You've not heard of a GF encounter called knights valor. It intercepts 50% of all incoming damage to party members on a 9 second CD and it generates threat. Also I'd like to point out that you will NOT be pulling threat from a GF that uses enforced threat and knights valor on CD. GF's are now a mandatory party member. I have both lvl 60 cleric and a lvl 60 GF and I think everything will be fine.
How will the cleric fair in PvP with only a 66% or so uptime in Astral shield?
My husband has a GF and a cleric at 60. He has abandoned his cleric after the announcement of the patch and has gone back to his GF.
As an aside, Knight's Valor is bugged and there are several threads about it:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?244992-Guardian-Bug-Knight-s-Valor
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?254861-Knights-Valor-encounter-spell-bug
lol lets not even go there.
The fact is, clerics were boring before the patch, and now with this stupid as hell change its even worse. Sigh, an action MMO and no action.
This x100000000000000000000000000000
How were they boring? How is it going to be worse? How does not having a circle you're encouraged to stand in 100% of the time NOT encourage movement and action?
That doesn't make any sense.
--Part 1: Spells and Coin (NW-DHM3XQVQK)
--Part 2: A Blind Eye (NW-DI3QTHZGJ)
--Part 3: Dodo's Dinner (NW-DHPA8O253)
-One Shots
--The Wizard of Eldeur (NW-DRKQNE4S7)
Because we had 1 encounter that was remotely good at keeping a group in a dungeon alive, now that one skill that made us at least feel needed is worse. DC are by a wide margin the worst healers in any MMO I've played. They give up so much balance wise for heals and honestly it isn't worth it.
From what I've heard on test, with the improvements to aggro and Fighters, it's not that big a deal with a decent group.
--Part 1: Spells and Coin (NW-DHM3XQVQK)
--Part 2: A Blind Eye (NW-DI3QTHZGJ)
--Part 3: Dodo's Dinner (NW-DHPA8O253)
-One Shots
--The Wizard of Eldeur (NW-DRKQNE4S7)
Now instead of just the clerics dying, the tanks also die along with the clerics, which then becomes a party wipe.
I've switched classes now, as have a lot of other clerics. For the naysayers, go make a cleric and you'll understand.
Perhaps in lower end dungeons or incredibly overgeared guild groups, but in dungeons where adds hit stupidly hard and AS is on cooldown, people die. Clerics still get aggro unless someone does something otherwise to gain aggro. Even if they gain aggro if AS is on cooldown they take a truckload of damage that clerics can do barely anything about. The result is people screaming for heals when the cleric simply cannot heal. It's poorly balanced, the DC cannot outheal the damage coming in so the best option is to mitigate it. AS covers both of those and that's why it was good, however with a big gap in coverage they lose both mitigation and healing. There isn't even a combination of encounters that cover what AS does and that's why clerics are upset. We had 1 good tool and that got nerfed, that leaves a lot of clerics frustrated.
What needs to happen is: A. Mob damage is reduced B. Defensive stats are buffed to better mitigate damage or C. Clerics are given heals that can actually keep a party alive. I don't know why Cryptic is so scared of giving clerics the tools to do their job. If they don't want clerics being able to keep a party alive they need compensated with more damage or survivability.
Cleric has always required "smart" movement, aka run in a circle until you can dodge+cast. The only difference now is that if other classes get aggro they get to do it too while the DC feels frustrated from their heals being absolute HAMSTER. It is BORING and frustrating, at least before my AS made me feel useful all the time whilst being bored kiting adds.