i found out when i use eu2.proxy i get 50-70 higher ping
That's because a proxy is an additional point your network packet needs to pass through.
I couldn't even play with proxy because I got a time out when trying to log into the account server...
And why is ther still no official response? They get money from europeans too!
Im playing from Belgium. usually its between 110-150 ping.
My ping in every other mmo has been 20-25.
Im using a program called leatrix for neverwinter.
It doesnt do wonders but it lowers the ping by +/- 20 and keeps it more stable.
But still a big difference in quality then an actual european server.
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bingbongroyalMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
Here just a small example what happens to european players (or at least to me) in PvP: http://youtu.be/aNIshsyQ2Wg
Description:
I jumped behind him threw a smoke and he still is able to dodge.
And this kind of things happens a lot in PvP. It is really frustrating when you throw out your disable plus nuke and then nothing happens and you see that your skill cooldowns got reset and you're disabled yourself, because low ping 'murican had the chance to do so.
Had to explain to a friend who doesn't play Neverwinter, why I don't like PvP in NV, so I had to use an example he would understand and that is Dota 2:
"Imagine Tidehunter casts his ulti with full animation and nothing happens to the other team, because a split second later you see that Tide himself is stunned and his ulti cooldown is got reset." antoher Dota 2 example would be "Riki jumps behind enemy, instantly throws smokes and enemy still is able to disable Riki while being in the smoke."
This system might be bugged as well as game itself. I have no other explanation why ping is so darn high.
Other explaination would be, that the servers are freaking 7000km away from us! But you still have a point with the buggy system, because in my video it looks like a full second delay despite a 150ms ping.
In addition to my post above:
Not only it's hard to land disables, it's also pretty hard to dodge! Normally you would dodge when you see tha start of the enemy's skill animation, but since there's this huge delay you just roll to the side and still get hit.
My playtime has gone down pretty much to 15 minutes a day (couple hours before) since I hit level 60.
yeah, need an EU server, wasn't complaining before because i though it was given, you do have other players than US you know?
same with LOL, started with a US server, released an EU server with free transfer(for beta users), but given how cryptic is treating it's free to play games, I wont be surprised such a thing will have a horrendous price alongside selling your own grandmother.
ping isn't high because servers are crowded, ping is high because of the distance the data packets have to travel between the us servers and european(and other) users.
hence producing a delay that can't be resolved with proxy , thus the dire need for an EU server.
come on it's basic networking. if they're not planning on doing that, it's best for European users to leave this game, playing with a ping ranging from 200 to 300 is super frustrating. can't even dodge spells properly.
while the game is fun, it's absolutely horrid to die because of delay, makes you want to punch the screen.
even with proxy or clusters the data must be sent to the main server and go back, so everything is pointless, the latency is unfixable and there are no solutions, we need servers in europe, i was playing champions online, same problem, very bad latency, and i've quitted, i'll do the same here soon if they don't host a server in Europe, plain and simple, i pinged 23ms in wow that is 1/10 of the ping i have in neverwinter, i can ping 30ms to london (from italy), anywhewre in europe would be acceptable, but a server on the other side of the planet (California, that is even worst than a server in new york for example) is not acceptable, even for a mmo.
They could make the game use separate servers. For US and for Europe. US players would play with US users and European players would play with Europe users. Then separate the Europe for English, German and France ones.
:rolleyes:
If you'd like to start a business to bid on sponsoring European servers, I'm sure PWE will be happy to see your proposal. If you expect them to pay to double their costs just so a portion of the player base can have slightly faster ping, which is completely irrelevant outside the nearly-nonexistent PvP base, your expectations are at odds with reality.
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rajey0402Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
If you'd like to start a business to bid on sponsoring European servers, I'm sure PWE will be happy to see your proposal. If you expect them to pay to double their costs just so a portion of the player base can have slightly faster ping, which is completely irrelevant outside the nearly-nonexistent PvP base, your expectations are at odds with reality.
So, if they don't spend millions to make a slight improvement to your play quality, you'll take your business elsewhere? Unless you're spending millions, that's not a net loss. Again, the ping only matters to European PvPers, which are a tiny fraction of the playerbase, but the expenses to operate those servers are huge.
If you think it makes economic sense, show how; spending millions to avoid the loss of thousands makes no sense. Prove it's millions instead of thousands, and might convince them.
Otherwise "we'll just quit" is an empty threat; if you quit, the problem goes away, and PWE doesn't lose nearly as much money as if they created European servers to get you to stay.
So, if they don't spend millions to make a slight improvement to your play quality, you'll take your business elsewhere? Unless you're spending millions, that's not a net loss. Again, the ping only matters to European PvPers, which are a tiny fraction of the playerbase, but the expenses to operate those servers are huge.
If you think it makes economic sense, show how; spending millions to avoid the loss of thousands makes no sense. Prove it's millions instead of thousands, and might convince them.
Otherwise "we'll just quit" is an empty threat; if you quit, the problem goes away, and PWE doesn't lose nearly as much money as if they created European servers to get you to stay.
I have no clue what the size of the US player base is compared to the EU base, and neither do you. It's up to them to decide to distribute servers across the globe, or not.
But thing is, if they don't, EU based players and others with long response times will be handicapped in the game. That's a fact and easily observable in the game itself. It becomes even more an issue when they let the server handle more and more actions, such as dodging and stamina regeneration.
Yesterday in the Protectors Lagcave I managed to sprint with my GWF from Rhix to Knox in one go...not running out of stamina. Lag just kept messing up all the bits. This will only get worse.
And maybe as an analogy how lag relates to up- and download speed...
Traffic jams on the highway.
The size of your truck (downloadspeed) is irrelevant to how fast (response time) you get to your destination.
Meh. Sure, I wish there were European servers but I do fine at 200ms ping. I usually finish in the top 5 in pvp and I'm still in T1 gear. Maybe you're just terrible or something?
Pve goes well for me too. Just cleared Idris today (which I admit is very easy) with no healer and 4 players. No wipes at all after the terrible dc ragequit on us. That's pugs for you and I was just doing it for the easy loot.
Oh, what really lags for me would be Protector's Enclave. That place has some serious stutter for me at times.
I have no clue what the size of the US player base is compared to the EU base, and neither do you.
Actually, I do, but the important thing here is:
I have a very good idea of the size of the PvP playerbase, and they're the ones where ping matters. They're a tiny fraction of the base, and unless you're arguing that nearly all of them are Europeans, the EU ones are thus a much smaller fraction of the base.
For everybody else, it really doesn't matter.
I don't in any way disagree those players are handicapped in PvP by the ping times; the question is whether it's worth spending MILLIONS OF DOLLARS to fix the problem. Unless it's going to result in a net profit for Perfect World, they'd be foolish to do so.
Can you present any indication it would result in net profit?
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mewbreyMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 517Bounty Hunter
edited June 2013
I have 97MB Down and 83MB Up connection from UK, most EU servers I connect to I have 13MS 0.1PL. On the neverwinter servers I sit around 200MS... However I only started experiencing rubber banding when dodging since the last few mini patches.
Eu to NA = Lag for sure, even with high connection speeds.How much latency, and the effect it has in-game isn't so clear cut. I'm based in EU and really only notice the lag on some boss battles where I simply can't dodge fast enough(CW), but for everyday adventuring isn't so bad,though it is still noticeable.May be worth reminding ourselves that latency is generally a term used to cover quite a lot problems. For example, one may have a greater connection speed, but if more hops are required to reach a given destination then any advantage in speed may be lost to a slower connection with fewer hops. Remember the trickle of water through large diameter pipe analogy? Anyway, each device(router/switch) whatever along the route can add quite substantial delay or jitter of it's own, so quite large variations can exist even from similar regions or areas. EU servers? Great, they are certainly needed. You know, being brutally honest, I haven't even checked my pings, it's a given they aren't going to match are US pings from US based servers. But for anyone to suggest there isn't a problem with ping times simply because not everyone reports it, doesn't mean there isn't an issue. Cheers all.
A wise man learns more from a foolish question, than a fool learns from a wise answer.
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bingbongroyalMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
"Millions of dollars" omfg...this isno MMO with a player base of 12 million people!
I would say they would barely make any loss in terms of cash. They just have to shift some of the servers from california to somewhere in europe. They also don't have to set up a whole new server network with different shards and stuff, no they just have to manage that the european players get their instances of pvp or dungeon on a european server instead of the mega delay US ones.
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tang56Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
A quick burst of screenshots showed my ping to vary in the high 100's to 200 or so. It normally varies from 130ms to 210ms. It's not great but lag does seem more noticeable post patch.
Seriously, allow me to get my work done before logging into the game
Unlike some who work from home I have a target to hit and loading the game would make me slack too much. So I always get work done before it comes to loading up le games
Sooo, where's that screenshot mate? Got to page 8 and I saw like 20 posts pretty much posting anything but the screenshot lol. Just stop making up bs - Europeans have a clear disadvantage due to stuff still hitting them (high dps atks in pvp or a 1hko pve boss attack) even after they dodge it. Need a Euro server asap or people that would've stuck around otherwise are going to quit because they get bs'd by the high ping when trying to make that vital dodge.
David Valtiere, Lvl 70 TR with perfect Lvl 60 gear which I don't want to replace cause nostalgia yo ;_;
If you are getting 200 - 300 ms anywhere in the world, your ISP is wrong, not the game. My sweetie is from the Netherlands and she gets great response - and she's even on a slow laptop! But she gets no issues with lag at all. You need to check your routing because if she's in that area and doing fine, it's not their servers.
Option 2 - play a game that is European or makes you happier
Also - screenshots as proof? Really? ANY screenshot with ANY content can be so easily manipulated in Photoshop. 10 seconds . . . just SECONDS . . . in Photoshop CS6 and I could make at least half of you believe I get ping issues, etc., as a way to whine on a forum. Sorry but just because you display a graphic does not make it admissible or believable. Besides, even if it is not manipulated, all the shot proves is that your internet . . . well . . . sucks.
Internet technology has come a long way, and we are advanced enough that geographical location does not matter. Quality of lines? Sure. Quality of satellite communication as needed? Yes. But as long as that quality is there with ALL providers involved, you'll get low pings and happy connections.
I don't think we will get servers in EU basically because PWE not Cryptic make such decisions (Cryptic is just the game studio that developed the game using PWE's own proprietary engine 'Angelica'). PWE is the infrastructure provider and is unlikely to embark on infrastructure expenditure for one of their stable of games when they can already use the existing infrastructure that they also run their other games with.
Additionally, given the rapacious real money pricing structure* existing in Neverwinter it is unlikely that a company wanting to make money as quickly as PWE is on Neverwinter would want to reduce their profit margin on what they would consider to be expenditure on redundant infrastructure.
* My own opinion, but not many companies offer real money transactions in the 200 and 60 dollar/euro range during the beta of a game nor offer such poor value such as 10 dollar/euro for a bag for a character that is bound to that character. However, this is the monetary model PWE have chosen and it is of course their right to charge what they like for items/services they are offering, but this could be considered illustrative of PWE's stance on making profit from Neverwinter so, in my opinion, I would think that the chance of them reducing that profit through expenditure on EU servers/shards would be slim to non-existant.
Comments
I couldn't even play with proxy because I got a time out when trying to log into the account server...
And why is ther still no official response? They get money from europeans too!
Unless it's Warframe, which has really inefficient netcode
My ping in every other mmo has been 20-25.
Im using a program called leatrix for neverwinter.
It doesnt do wonders but it lowers the ping by +/- 20 and keeps it more stable.
But still a big difference in quality then an actual european server.
http://youtu.be/aNIshsyQ2Wg
Description:
I jumped behind him threw a smoke and he still is able to dodge.
And this kind of things happens a lot in PvP. It is really frustrating when you throw out your disable plus nuke and then nothing happens and you see that your skill cooldowns got reset and you're disabled yourself, because low ping 'murican had the chance to do so.
Had to explain to a friend who doesn't play Neverwinter, why I don't like PvP in NV, so I had to use an example he would understand and that is Dota 2:
"Imagine Tidehunter casts his ulti with full animation and nothing happens to the other team, because a split second later you see that Tide himself is stunned and his ulti cooldown is got reset." antoher Dota 2 example would be "Riki jumps behind enemy, instantly throws smokes and enemy still is able to disable Riki while being in the smoke."
In addition to my post above:
Not only it's hard to land disables, it's also pretty hard to dodge! Normally you would dodge when you see tha start of the enemy's skill animation, but since there's this huge delay you just roll to the side and still get hit.
My playtime has gone down pretty much to 15 minutes a day (couple hours before) since I hit level 60.
same with LOL, started with a US server, released an EU server with free transfer(for beta users), but given how cryptic is treating it's free to play games, I wont be surprised such a thing will have a horrendous price alongside selling your own grandmother.
but hey, I welcome pleasant surprises gogo PWE
hence producing a delay that can't be resolved with proxy , thus the dire need for an EU server.
come on it's basic networking. if they're not planning on doing that, it's best for European users to leave this game, playing with a ping ranging from 200 to 300 is super frustrating. can't even dodge spells properly.
while the game is fun, it's absolutely horrid to die because of delay, makes you want to punch the screen.
Everything under 100 ping is outstanding.
This would be true if the year was 1980.
:rolleyes:
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
So I suppose we may as well just quit then.
So, if they don't spend millions to make a slight improvement to your play quality, you'll take your business elsewhere? Unless you're spending millions, that's not a net loss. Again, the ping only matters to European PvPers, which are a tiny fraction of the playerbase, but the expenses to operate those servers are huge.
If you think it makes economic sense, show how; spending millions to avoid the loss of thousands makes no sense. Prove it's millions instead of thousands, and might convince them.
Otherwise "we'll just quit" is an empty threat; if you quit, the problem goes away, and PWE doesn't lose nearly as much money as if they created European servers to get you to stay.
I have no clue what the size of the US player base is compared to the EU base, and neither do you. It's up to them to decide to distribute servers across the globe, or not.
But thing is, if they don't, EU based players and others with long response times will be handicapped in the game. That's a fact and easily observable in the game itself. It becomes even more an issue when they let the server handle more and more actions, such as dodging and stamina regeneration.
Yesterday in the Protectors Lagcave I managed to sprint with my GWF from Rhix to Knox in one go...not running out of stamina. Lag just kept messing up all the bits. This will only get worse.
And maybe as an analogy how lag relates to up- and download speed...
Traffic jams on the highway.
The size of your truck (downloadspeed) is irrelevant to how fast (response time) you get to your destination.
Pve goes well for me too. Just cleared Idris today (which I admit is very easy) with no healer and 4 players. No wipes at all after the terrible dc ragequit on us. That's pugs for you and I was just doing it for the easy loot.
Oh, what really lags for me would be Protector's Enclave. That place has some serious stutter for me at times.
Actually, I do, but the important thing here is:
I have a very good idea of the size of the PvP playerbase, and they're the ones where ping matters. They're a tiny fraction of the base, and unless you're arguing that nearly all of them are Europeans, the EU ones are thus a much smaller fraction of the base.
For everybody else, it really doesn't matter.
I don't in any way disagree those players are handicapped in PvP by the ping times; the question is whether it's worth spending MILLIONS OF DOLLARS to fix the problem. Unless it's going to result in a net profit for Perfect World, they'd be foolish to do so.
Can you present any indication it would result in net profit?
I would say they would barely make any loss in terms of cash. They just have to shift some of the servers from california to somewhere in europe. They also don't have to set up a whole new server network with different shards and stuff, no they just have to manage that the european players get their instances of pvp or dungeon on a european server instead of the mega delay US ones.
Sooo, where's that screenshot mate? Got to page 8 and I saw like 20 posts pretty much posting anything but the screenshot lol. Just stop making up bs - Europeans have a clear disadvantage due to stuff still hitting them (high dps atks in pvp or a 1hko pve boss attack) even after they dodge it. Need a Euro server asap or people that would've stuck around otherwise are going to quit because they get bs'd by the high ping when trying to make that vital dodge.
Option 2 - play a game that is European or makes you happier
Also - screenshots as proof? Really? ANY screenshot with ANY content can be so easily manipulated in Photoshop. 10 seconds . . . just SECONDS . . . in Photoshop CS6 and I could make at least half of you believe I get ping issues, etc., as a way to whine on a forum. Sorry but just because you display a graphic does not make it admissible or believable. Besides, even if it is not manipulated, all the shot proves is that your internet . . . well . . . sucks.
Internet technology has come a long way, and we are advanced enough that geographical location does not matter. Quality of lines? Sure. Quality of satellite communication as needed? Yes. But as long as that quality is there with ALL providers involved, you'll get low pings and happy connections.
Cheers.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Additionally, given the rapacious real money pricing structure* existing in Neverwinter it is unlikely that a company wanting to make money as quickly as PWE is on Neverwinter would want to reduce their profit margin on what they would consider to be expenditure on redundant infrastructure.
* My own opinion, but not many companies offer real money transactions in the 200 and 60 dollar/euro range during the beta of a game nor offer such poor value such as 10 dollar/euro for a bag for a character that is bound to that character. However, this is the monetary model PWE have chosen and it is of course their right to charge what they like for items/services they are offering, but this could be considered illustrative of PWE's stance on making profit from Neverwinter so, in my opinion, I would think that the chance of them reducing that profit through expenditure on EU servers/shards would be slim to non-existant.