So, after all the nerfs do you guys think he is still going to be viable? I see alot of nerfs but then I see that the powers will benefit more from the power stat, so I dont know how it is going to be...
They didnt fix the Theft Strike bug tho, when he does not teleport or do ddamage and the cooldown still activates.
Encounter and Daily powers now benefit more from the Power stat.
Blitz: The snare from this power no longer stacks with other snare effects.
Deft Strike: This power no longer places the Rogue in front of certain dragons.
Duelist's Flurry: Credit for the bleed damage is now properly attributed if multiple Rogues apply stacks.
Duelist's Flurry: Up to 10 stacks of the bleed effect can be applied to a single enemy regardless of how many Rogues applied them.
Duelist's Flurry: The bleed now ticks more slowly.
Impossible to Catch: The Stealthed version no longer removes DoT effects when activated, but does prevent them from being applied while active.
Shocking Execution: The base damage of this power has been reduced by 60%.
Smoke Bomb: The snare from this power no longer stacks with other snare effects.
Feat: Catspaw Style: This feat now properly reduces the target's defense.
Feat: Deadly Momentum: The Critical Severity buff from this feat has been reduced to match the tooltip.
Feat: Ruthless Efficiency: The Armor Penetration buff from this feat has been reduced to match the tooltip.
Only two things you need to look at in the patch notes regarding the rogue.
1. Power is helping the class much more.
2. Rogues will not being performing 30-50k crits any longer.
I do not see the problem with the changes to this class.
There is no worse feeling in the world than the moment during an argument you realize you are wrong.
Seen it enough times to be able to tell when his should land. Never managed to dodge it a single time nor have I seen anyone do it.
Ive had my shocking execution dodged a few times, not very often at all though.
The thing thats annoying is its got such a long wind up anyone with any cc (gf and cw are annoying as hell) can lock us out of shocking execution mid animation. Really annoying when youre like .1 seconds from landing on some poor sob then a cw from 50 feet away HAMSTER blocks you.
You want all of the AD you spent on enchantments back. You are reeeeeeeeetarded.
NO where in any of my posts did I ask for AD refund... I think you can't read or maybe you need to heed your own sig! Dafuq you cryin' about? You first MMO??! Or are you just HAMSTER?
Power is completely different from strength (STR), they are not directly related.
yes indeed, they're not directly related, but let's think about this... let me say I ever saw a lvl 60 TR with 26 Dex and 18 Str(which is 18% for your based damage), before the major patch... I'm really don't care if my Str stats only 18, so for the armor stats I could choose critical strikes and armor pen. over power, but after major patch(if they still sticking to those rules) if you have a lvl 60 TR with that ability score build, you're already screw up... and if you want to keep up a good normal DPS in PvE, you need to build more power on your gear as a primary stat armor build, CMIIW
Only two things you need to look at in the patch notes regarding the rogue.
1. Power is helping the class much more.
2. Rogues will not being performing 30-50k crits any longer.
I do not see the problem with the changes to this class.
good luck with your T2 dungeon party with no those crits... except you're a PvP loner...
0
jpnoleMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
You rogues ran circles around the other classes, most of the time literally invisible. As a CW player (which is also OP and set for a nerf) almost all of my troubles lies with defeating TRs. I've beaten plenty, but if you don't dodge in time and hit em hard right away, they stun lock you and will drain your HP from full to zero in 3-5 seconds. You guys had your fun and now the playing field is just going to be more level.
You rogues ran circles around the other classes, most of the time literally invisible. As a CW player (which is also OP and set for a nerf) almost all of my troubles lies with defeating TRs. I've beaten plenty, but if you don't dodge in time and hit em hard right away, they stun lock you and will drain your HP from full to zero in 3-5 seconds. You guys had your fun and now the playing field is just going to be more level.
Um... it is absolutely impossible for a TR to "stun lock" ANYONE, we don't even have the skills to. You must be talking about a GF, GWF, or CW to be able to "stun lock" you.
When I have to spend $6 for a respec? You're **** right! And this is NOT an expansion, that's something totally different. I don't expect to get everything back, I expect to be able to CHANGE to the new layout without FURTHER cost to ME. I don't think that is at all unreasonable.
EDIT:
Also, in most other games, when they make changes like this, they DO reset all your gear! EQ2, LoTRO, WoW, just to name a few. So you can Bahahaha all you want.
Uhm you know we are getting free respec tokens right when this gets implemented, it has been stated by the devs all over the place.
This is a game that has D&D only in it's idea... nothing more Like uncle Ruckus, no relation.
Actually, in a video with the Devs, the game, for the most part, follows fairly closely to the 4.0 Ruleset. Sure, health and damage are different, but in video games, do you like doing 5 damage, or 500?
that sheet says a rogue should have about 12 health at level 1, and about 112 at level 21.
does that line up with the game?
you said the Str build is overly 10 points build, which is I presumed the Str point spent is useless, and the DnD rules book say this: Key Abilities: Dexterity, Strength, Charisma
we're not talking about the health stats, but the key abilities... and I'm pointing that key abilities as our main feature in this game... so if you spent some on those Str is not wrong..., since w/o Str you have no damage on this game... not like the standard DnD rules which is your main power based on Dex...:
You like powers that deceive and misdirect your foes. You dart in and out of the fray in combat, dodging your enemies’ attacks or redirecting them to other foes. Most of your attack powers rely on Dexterity, so that should be your best ability score. Charisma is important for a few attacks, for Charisma-based skills you sometimes use in place of attacks, and for other effects that depend on successful attacks, so make Charisma your second-best score. Strength is useful if you want to choose powers intended for the other rogue build. Select the artful dodger rogue tactic. Look for powers that take advantage of your high Charisma score, as well as those that add to your trickster nature.
and I found it very weird since in this game, if you want more attack power, you must spend more points to Str, based on this ability scores table:
Actually, in a video with the Devs, the game, for the most part, follows fairly closely to the 4.0 Ruleset. Sure, health and damage are different, but in video games, do you like doing 5 damage, or 500?
Actually, in a video with the Devs, the game, for the most part, follows fairly closely to the 4.0 Ruleset. Sure, health and damage are different, but in video games, do you like doing 5 damage, or 500?
Shocking execution y u no shock no more?
It's not as bad as it sounds. Only affects base damage. If you using shocking execution on full health mobs, something is wrong with you, reroll a GF.
I am quite familiar with DnD as my poor bookshelf will attest. This game has very little to do with DnD mechanically speaking. TR in this game has little to do with a TR in DnD to begin with. TR in this game is just a standard lawl dps MMO style rogue. In fact its even less then that given that stealth is like an optional bonus, not a requirement to play an effective TR.
I sincerely wish it, and all the classes, had more to do with their DnD counterparts. I would love for TR to be a more traditional rogue archtype where stealth, positioning and misdirection was vital to success instead of a mild bonus to it.
I don't know if you try playing in the Preview server where all the GWF changes were applied to them. GWF have more def, more attack, and less cool-down. GWF now are even more powerful and in my opinion they deal 2 much damage since they are DPS. They can deal up to 80k with normal attack. So might as well go ahead and try the new changes before you quit like others do. Good luck
to be fair it never mae sense to me that someone swinging a gigantic sword did LESS damage than a rogue.
I am quite familiar with DnD as my poor bookshelf will attest. This game has very little to do with DnD mechanically speaking. TR in this game has little to do with a TR in DnD to begin with. TR in this game is just a standard lawl dps MMO style rogue. In fact its even less then that given that stealth is like an optional bonus, not a requirement to play an effective TR.
I sincerely wish it, and all the classes, had more to do with their DnD counterparts. I would love for TR to be a more traditional rogue archtype where stealth, positioning and misdirection was vital to success instead of a mild bonus to it.
to be fair it never mae sense to me that someone swinging a gigantic sword did LESS damage than a rogue.
To quote the age old motto: Rogues do it from behind.
Normally a rogue's damage should only reach its peak when sneak attacking. However, in Neverwinter a it is right now the rogue has exceptional toe to toe damage. It doesn't really need to be sneaking to be effective. Yes, combat advantage makes it better, but its already great and the way combat advantage works with stealth makes it completely brainless. Since stealth is just a "Turn combat advantage on" button in NW. When it should require positioning for optimum damage.
Essentially, Rogue's base toe to toe dps needs to go down and its peak tactical dps needs to go up to compensate. You should be rewarded for being skillful, mindful of your position and employing strategy. Not for walking up, pressing a button then holding down Duelist's Flurry.
I mean, it's called a Trickster Rogue. But it plays like a fighter class with an invisible button. Fighters should be the ones that can wade in from any direct and do solid, sustained damage. While Rogue should have higher peak damage when in the right position, but lower base damage when out of position.
Trickster Rogue should also, you know, trick. It should be able to deceive enemies and redirect threat onto the Guardian or away from the Cleric. Trick enemies into moving into a specified position to lure them into dungeon traps or GTAoE effects. You should be able to sneak up on 2 enemies, toss a rock to lure one into a spike trap then jump the other from behind.
Not just run up, hit stealth and hold down one button until everything dispenses coin.
I am quite familiar with DnD as my poor bookshelf will attest. This game has very little to do with DnD mechanically speaking. TR in this game has little to do with a TR in DnD to begin with. TR in this game is just a standard lawl dps MMO style rogue. In fact its even less then that given that stealth is like an optional bonus, not a requirement to play an effective TR.
I sincerely wish it, and all the classes, had more to do with their DnD counterparts. I would love for TR to be a more traditional rogue archtype where stealth, positioning and misdirection was vital to success instead of a mild bonus to it.
+1 to you sir, that's I thought about this game... indeed Cryptic must change the DnD(Dungeons n Dragons) trademarks to DnD(DPS and Destroy) to be match the conditions atm...:D
Only two things you need to look at in the patch notes regarding the rogue.
1. Power is helping the class much more.
2. Rogues will not being performing 30-50k crits any longer.
I do not see the problem with the changes to this class.
I assume that you are not a TR but you could never make a 50k crit, your max would be arround 40k to mobs, I dont know why but it ignores armour and you cant make a 40k crit on other people.... It will be all like 30-35k
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werealchemistMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
I have played the test server on my lvl 60 rogue and let me tell ya there is hardly a **** bit of difference the only really noticeable thing is shocking execution in pvp. now i can't say i've ever 1-shot anything in pvp (because the way shocking execution works it wont 1-shot anyone. Anyone that has 1-shot/been 1-shot has had a MAJOR gear difference. it only does serious damage to people already missing health. and if you are missing health in the first place it isn't a 1-shot) in the first place but my 2-shot combo still pwns (lashing blade/shocking execution)the rogue class is far from dead.
0
cbrowne0329Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 293Arc User
I assume that you are not a TR but you could never make a 50k crit, your max would be arround 40k to mobs, I dont know why but it ignores armour and you cant make a 40k crit on other people.... It will be all like 30-35k
After respeccing my executioner rogue before the nerf I would crit from mobs 2000 to 55000. Highest I ever hit someone in PVP was for 27K I think. I however almost never one-shot anybody... and quite frankly it was an "equalizer". Between being held by CWs, backstabbed by other rogues, shield bashed, or knocked back by Clerics and GFs... I almost always needed to pull one out to survive to fight another day. TRs defense is not that high... and I've played every class so far.
Anyway since the 60% nerf, the shocking execution has been rendered useless, barely criting ever, and when it does MAXING at 21K... same exact build. My backstab does more damage 90% of the time! This kinda sucks in PVP but MAJORLY sucks in delves. Thus I no longer use it.
My scoundrel rogue (test because I new the nerf was coming, and built for PVP, still in T1 gear) does way more damage and doesn't have to rely on crit.... his crtis suck anway... but my regular Sly Flourish hit when chained will go something like this 1396, 2369, 4789, 6156, 8756, 10K... yeah that's right, you read that combo correctly. My blades hit for the same combo stats, more when they try to run.
I use Courage Breaker, and whirling blades instead now... I miss Shocking Execution as it was an equalizer... I just had to change tactics. They do need to rename it though and lower it on the path. It's definitely no longer a top tier power... I do agree criting for 50K is OP, but give us back some of it sheesh! Hell I get hit by the wizzie auto-tracking ice blade for over 30K ALL the time.
Comments
Only two things you need to look at in the patch notes regarding the rogue.
1. Power is helping the class much more.
2. Rogues will not being performing 30-50k crits any longer.
I do not see the problem with the changes to this class.
Ive had my shocking execution dodged a few times, not very often at all though.
The thing thats annoying is its got such a long wind up anyone with any cc (gf and cw are annoying as hell) can lock us out of shocking execution mid animation. Really annoying when youre like .1 seconds from landing on some poor sob then a cw from 50 feet away HAMSTER blocks you.
NO where in any of my posts did I ask for AD refund... I think you can't read or maybe you need to heed your own sig!
Dafuq you cryin' about? You first MMO??! Or are you just HAMSTER?
yes indeed, they're not directly related, but let's think about this... let me say I ever saw a lvl 60 TR with 26 Dex and 18 Str(which is 18% for your based damage), before the major patch... I'm really don't care if my Str stats only 18, so for the armor stats I could choose critical strikes and armor pen. over power, but after major patch(if they still sticking to those rules) if you have a lvl 60 TR with that ability score build, you're already screw up... and if you want to keep up a good normal DPS in PvE, you need to build more power on your gear as a primary stat armor build, CMIIW
i am pretty sure only the points over 10 count, which means that is 8% damage.
Also, if you think this has completely ruined TR I would submit that you were not a very good TR player to begin with. -.-
good luck with your T2 dungeon party with no those crits... except you're a PvP loner...
Um... it is absolutely impossible for a TR to "stun lock" ANYONE, we don't even have the skills to. You must be talking about a GF, GWF, or CW to be able to "stun lock" you.
you sir, before judging the TR build read this DnD rules book first...:
http://dustin.wikidot.com/rogue
that has very little to do with the actual game.
that sheet says a rogue should have about 12 health at level 1, and about 112 at level 21.
does that line up with the game?
THIS IS NEVERWINTER!!!! (makes scary face)
This is a game that has D&D only in it's idea... nothing more
Seze - Rogue - Necropolis -
Uhm you know we are getting free respec tokens right when this gets implemented, it has been stated by the devs all over the place.
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
Actually, in a video with the Devs, the game, for the most part, follows fairly closely to the 4.0 Ruleset. Sure, health and damage are different, but in video games, do you like doing 5 damage, or 500?
you said the Str build is overly 10 points build, which is I presumed the Str point spent is useless, and the DnD rules book say this:
Key Abilities: Dexterity, Strength, Charisma
we're not talking about the health stats, but the key abilities... and I'm pointing that key abilities as our main feature in this game... so if you spent some on those Str is not wrong..., since w/o Str you have no damage on this game... not like the standard DnD rules which is your main power based on Dex...:
You like powers that deceive and misdirect your foes. You dart in and out of the fray in combat, dodging your enemies’ attacks or redirecting them to other foes. Most of your attack powers rely on Dexterity, so that should be your best ability score. Charisma is important for a few attacks, for Charisma-based skills you sometimes use in place of attacks, and for other effects that depend on successful attacks, so make Charisma your second-best score. Strength is useful if you want to choose powers intended for the other rogue build. Select the artful dodger rogue tactic. Look for powers that take advantage of your high Charisma score, as well as those that add to your trickster nature.
and I found it very weird since in this game, if you want more attack power, you must spend more points to Str, based on this ability scores table:
http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Ability_Score
so if you satisfied with your "enough" 8% bonus damage..., good luck with the T2 boss, again CMIIW
+1 on you sir... XD
I'm 60 gwf, doing mind shattering 5 damage sound rly nice 8)
Seze - Rogue - Necropolis -
It's not as bad as it sounds. Only affects base damage. If you using shocking execution on full health mobs, something is wrong with you, reroll a GF.
Bit of a pipe dream sadly......
I am quite familiar with DnD as my poor bookshelf will attest. This game has very little to do with DnD mechanically speaking. TR in this game has little to do with a TR in DnD to begin with. TR in this game is just a standard lawl dps MMO style rogue. In fact its even less then that given that stealth is like an optional bonus, not a requirement to play an effective TR.
I sincerely wish it, and all the classes, had more to do with their DnD counterparts. I would love for TR to be a more traditional rogue archtype where stealth, positioning and misdirection was vital to success instead of a mild bonus to it.
to be fair it never mae sense to me that someone swinging a gigantic sword did LESS damage than a rogue.
Thank you. This has been my thoughts too on TR.
To quote the age old motto: Rogues do it from behind.
Normally a rogue's damage should only reach its peak when sneak attacking. However, in Neverwinter a it is right now the rogue has exceptional toe to toe damage. It doesn't really need to be sneaking to be effective. Yes, combat advantage makes it better, but its already great and the way combat advantage works with stealth makes it completely brainless. Since stealth is just a "Turn combat advantage on" button in NW. When it should require positioning for optimum damage.
Essentially, Rogue's base toe to toe dps needs to go down and its peak tactical dps needs to go up to compensate. You should be rewarded for being skillful, mindful of your position and employing strategy. Not for walking up, pressing a button then holding down Duelist's Flurry.
I mean, it's called a Trickster Rogue. But it plays like a fighter class with an invisible button. Fighters should be the ones that can wade in from any direct and do solid, sustained damage. While Rogue should have higher peak damage when in the right position, but lower base damage when out of position.
Trickster Rogue should also, you know, trick. It should be able to deceive enemies and redirect threat onto the Guardian or away from the Cleric. Trick enemies into moving into a specified position to lure them into dungeon traps or GTAoE effects. You should be able to sneak up on 2 enemies, toss a rock to lure one into a spike trap then jump the other from behind.
Not just run up, hit stealth and hold down one button until everything dispenses coin.
+1 to you sir, that's I thought about this game... indeed Cryptic must change the DnD(Dungeons n Dragons) trademarks to DnD(DPS and Destroy) to be match the conditions atm...:D
I assume that you are not a TR but you could never make a 50k crit, your max would be arround 40k to mobs, I dont know why but it ignores armour and you cant make a 40k crit on other people.... It will be all like 30-35k
After respeccing my executioner rogue before the nerf I would crit from mobs 2000 to 55000. Highest I ever hit someone in PVP was for 27K I think. I however almost never one-shot anybody... and quite frankly it was an "equalizer". Between being held by CWs, backstabbed by other rogues, shield bashed, or knocked back by Clerics and GFs... I almost always needed to pull one out to survive to fight another day. TRs defense is not that high... and I've played every class so far.
Anyway since the 60% nerf, the shocking execution has been rendered useless, barely criting ever, and when it does MAXING at 21K... same exact build. My backstab does more damage 90% of the time! This kinda sucks in PVP but MAJORLY sucks in delves. Thus I no longer use it.
My scoundrel rogue (test because I new the nerf was coming, and built for PVP, still in T1 gear) does way more damage and doesn't have to rely on crit.... his crtis suck anway... but my regular Sly Flourish hit when chained will go something like this 1396, 2369, 4789, 6156, 8756, 10K... yeah that's right, you read that combo correctly. My blades hit for the same combo stats, more when they try to run.
I use Courage Breaker, and whirling blades instead now... I miss Shocking Execution as it was an equalizer... I just had to change tactics. They do need to rename it though and lower it on the path. It's definitely no longer a top tier power... I do agree criting for 50K is OP, but give us back some of it sheesh! Hell I get hit by the wizzie auto-tracking ice blade for over 30K ALL the time.
Feels to me I'm more OP since the changes, but then I didnt have a cookie-cutter TR to start...
What Class Are You?