Both GF and GWF can KDlock you and take you from 100%-0% during its duration. Ontopof that GWF can make themselves invinsible and immune to cc almst all the time. I fear a good GF more then any class, as soon as they land their first kd, your as good as dead
Base damage of SE is pretty low actually...i just checked it and while with weapons it does 15k-18k damage, without weapons its around 1-1,5k only
while it depends on how the game is using the weapon damage to enhance the base damage, the nerf wont be as huge
It is huge because I'm on the test server with my toon copied over.
Regular SE on Dragon server:
15754-18694
Same gear and weapons on test server SE is now:
8692-9177
Ya, they nerfed it big time.
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maveras1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 5Arc User
edited June 2013
-Shocking Execution: The base damage of this power has been reduced by 60%.
I just want to be viable in PVE still. We destroy in PVP. So the SE nerf isn't that big of a deal for me. It sucks that it's nerfed, don't get me wrong. I just understand why. Hopefully, after testing and feedback they will scale it back to like 40% or 30% nerf instead. I also can't wait to see what people figure out and what builds will be viable. I would love to play a scoundrel rogue in PVE. DF is an annoying ability. It feels so slow. I love SF. I guess the best thing right now is to just wait and see. Rogues definitely needed to be rebalanced. I'm hopeful they will rethink some of these nerfs.
-Shocking Execution: The base damage of this power has been reduced by 60%.
qq, TRs, no moar 1 shooting
You think Shocking execution nerf is going to stop one shots? You do realise Lurkers assault increases Damage by 60% for 10 seconds.
Lashing blade and LA = one shot with an encounter. and that takes 2 seconds to achieve. You can then follow up with 12 daggers on whoevers standing around.
This nerf has just made it more clear to rogues that LA is the better option. As it always has been. And it just means we can't remove a threat that is in astral shield. But since you can't stack Astral shield, it's going to be depressing for healers when they get focused like hell in pvp. I feel sorry for them now.
no need to restack bleed anymore,u can get better dmg ticks, even after its 10x stacked
yep, just 2 more DF or so and no more bleed dmg But there is no way this will go live like this imo.
Would be interesting how much more damage the bleeds do. If its better then yeah fine.
Also I am interested in seeing how much more damage encounters do. I hope Path of the blades does more damage. It's such a nice skill and also Wicked reminder I hope does more.
My last thoughts on the change:
- if they have nerfed flurry, they could have made animation faster and more reach.
- The Shocking execution is Nothing to worry about. Since we don't need it anyway, Lurkers assault is so much better.
- The Action point gain is fairly slow for Rogues, which is ok i guess but would be nice to be upped just a slight bit.
- Tenebrous needs to be nerfed or fixed = it should be armor enchant or weapon enchant only. And it shouldn't stack.
- Blood bath will be interesting to see how much more damage it does. Also it should have two modes, if you are not targeting anyone it should just hit anything in a radius. If you are fixed on a target it should dash around that target only. (focused damage)
-I'm happy about the texture fix. Good work :>
-It always confused me why the Rogue, only has 2 dodges in a bar, whilst the magic class has 3 teleports? Why does CW have 3 and everyone else that dodges has 2. I think Healers should get 3, Rogues should get 3 as well or bring down the CW's to 2. Personally I think you should give people 3 to keep it balanced.
-Flurrys first 2 animations are too slow. And you should be allowed to use the first two hits and the 3rd flurry should be prolonged further instead of resetting so fast. Although this is probably balanced, in pve It's annoying getting lagged out and mobs moving away before the 3rd gets it's hit. Perhaps having it so if you hit with the 2nd hit, you are latched on unless the target dodges. (keeping balance in pvp)
- pvp gear should be more effective in pvp. And pve gear shouldn't be more effective.
I think the stats on pvp gear should be increased or new rewards that cost alot more so that the pvp players can still play competitively in the pvp just by pvping. I personally am forced into pve to stay competitive in pvp. which is expected, but perhaps you should include winner's boxes to the winners in pvp, that has a chance to drop say better pvp gear tokens (basically emulating the PVE enviroment where you have to do multiple instances to gain the gear.)
All this will boost pvp and make it more competitive and rewarding, whilst keeping it in line with the pve instances.
1xpvp match = 10-15 mins and if you win you gain the new tokens.
1xpve instance = 30-120 minutes with a chance to gain gear.
Just make it so 2 hours worth of wins (8wins) is enough to gain a piece of equipment.
Winning though only. Not just farming loses. (great work for the reduced losing rewards btw its a good move)
The Best PVP Guild on Dragon/Neverwinter: YoloOldSkoolSwagLoveNeverGingersLuvDupStep even if it's just one of us, you might as well just afk.
-Shocking Execution: The base damage of this power has been reduced by 60%.
Its a good thing, cuz it shouldnt be used for opener, should be used for finisher as intended !
Oh my fuqing god Daily reduced by 60%!!!! that's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much I understand that the damage is op but 60% is too much. I mean how the hell r we going to kill a CW now!?
It seems there is some confusion about the Deadly Momentum and Duelist's Flurry "changes". A lot of this I can attribute to the people that write the patch notes not speaking English well, or simply not understanding the change. I will try to clarify these things. The actual implementation of the bleed on the test server (IE it being broken) is not what I am going to explain, just the problem they meant they were fixing.
-Duelist's Flurry: Credit for the bleed damage is now properly attributed if multiple Rogues apply stacks.
-Duelist's Flurry: Up to 10 stacks of the bleed effect can be applied to a single enemy regardless of how many Rogues applied them.
This is not saying only one rogue can have stacks. This is a badly worded way of saying that bleeds will no longer add stacks from 2 rogues together to make a 20 stack. Now each rogue *should* be able to make their own 10 stack, and receive appropriate credit for their bleed damage. The wording they used is misleading, but they are not in fact only allowing 1 rogue to use Duelist's Flurry.
Im Glad I read the above couple posts about deadly momentum im not going to cry as hard so thank you for explain it a little better than the patch note monkey. Asfor the 60% damage reduction on SE that just takes the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. Reducing it by 30-40% ye I can under stand but over HALF!!! No doubt these changes will separate the men from the boys when it comes down to whos a **** good rogue player...cya in the arena.
It seems there is some confusion about the Deadly Momentum and Duelist's Flurry "changes". A lot of this I can attribute to the people that write the patch notes not speaking English well, or simply not understanding the change. I will try to clarify these things. The actual implementation of the bleed on the test server (IE it being broken) is not what I am going to explain, just the problem they meant they were fixing.
-Duelist's Flurry: Credit for the bleed damage is now properly attributed if multiple Rogues apply stacks.
-Duelist's Flurry: Up to 10 stacks of the bleed effect can be applied to a single enemy regardless of how many Rogues applied them.
This is not saying only one rogue can have stacks. This is a badly worded way of saying that bleeds will no longer add stacks from 2 rogues together to make a 20 stack. Now each rogue *should* be able to make their own 10 stack, and receive appropriate credit for their bleed damage. The wording they used is misleading, but they are not in fact only allowing 1 rogue to use Duelist's Flurry.
-Feat: Deadly Momentum: The Critical Severity buff from this feat has been reduced to match the tooltip.
This again is wrongly worded. The problem was that there was a bug with Deadly Momentum and the armor pen feats that caused weird numbers to show up in the character sheet. The character sheet was reflecting 1-5 stacks of 15% crit severity per stack. So basically the character sheet was showing a 75% bonus at 5 stacks instead of the intended 15%. You were never actually getting 75%, you got the 15%. This was only a UI error. YOU DID NOT GET NERFED. Just your character sheet now reads these two feat buffs appropriately.
PS. If you want to see proof of this you can spec into the top tree and see that you can get several billion armor penetration if you kill an AoE pack. I haven't explicitly tested it myself, but I used this feat set while leveling and I am pretty sure the mobs still had damage resistance. So you did not actually receive 100 billion armor pen.
Someone please sticky this on the front page right now. Just do it.
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jezeen5Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
It seems there is some confusion about the Deadly Momentum and Duelist's Flurry "changes". A lot of this I can attribute to the people that write the patch notes not speaking English well, or simply not understanding the change. I will try to clarify these things. The actual implementation of the bleed on the test server (IE it being broken) is not what I am going to explain, just the problem they meant they were fixing.
-Duelist's Flurry: Credit for the bleed damage is now properly attributed if multiple Rogues apply stacks.
-Duelist's Flurry: Up to 10 stacks of the bleed effect can be applied to a single enemy regardless of how many Rogues applied them.
This is not saying only one rogue can have stacks. This is a badly worded way of saying that bleeds will no longer add stacks from 2 rogues together to make a 20 stack. Now each rogue *should* be able to make their own 10 stack, and receive appropriate credit for their bleed damage. The wording they used is misleading, but they are not in fact only allowing 1 rogue to use Duelist's Flurry.
-Feat: Deadly Momentum: The Critical Severity buff from this feat has been reduced to match the tooltip.
This again is wrongly worded. The problem was that there was a bug with Deadly Momentum and the armor pen feats that caused weird numbers to show up in the character sheet. The character sheet was reflecting 1-5 stacks of 15% crit severity per stack. So basically the character sheet was showing a 75% bonus at 5 stacks instead of the intended 15%. You were never actually getting 75%, you got the 15%. This was only a UI error. YOU DID NOT GET NERFED. Just your character sheet now reads these two feat buffs appropriately.
PS. If you want to see proof of this you can spec into the top tree and see that you can get several billion armor penetration if you kill an AoE pack. I haven't explicitly tested it myself, but I used this feat set while leveling and I am pretty sure the mobs still had damage resistance. So you did not actually receive 100 billion armor pen.
this set my mind at ease but the 60% nerf to SE that someone confirmed above to be a huge 60% over all nerf not just the small 1000 others have said is still crazy over the top makes it unusable as others are just far superior
Death or Glory
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candipMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
We Rogues have just DIED!! Hope we have a nice funeral! :mad:
dont know since i dont know how the actual damage is calculated..not to mention that you didnt provide enough information anyway even if i would know it
all i know is that i have 15-18k on live and 10-11k on preview
and just like my damage isnt reduces by 60%, neither is yours
It seems there is some confusion about the Deadly Momentum and Duelist's Flurry "changes". A lot of this I can attribute to the people that write the patch notes not speaking English well, or simply not understanding the change. I will try to clarify these things. The actual implementation of the bleed on the test server (IE it being broken) is not what I am going to explain, just the problem they meant they were fixing.
-Duelist's Flurry: Credit for the bleed damage is now properly attributed if multiple Rogues apply stacks.
-Duelist's Flurry: Up to 10 stacks of the bleed effect can be applied to a single enemy regardless of how many Rogues applied them.
This is not saying only one rogue can have stacks. This is a badly worded way of saying that bleeds will no longer add stacks from 2 rogues together to make a 20 stack. Now each rogue *should* be able to make their own 10 stack, and receive appropriate credit for their bleed damage. The wording they used is misleading, but they are not in fact only allowing 1 rogue to use Duelist's Flurry.
-Feat: Deadly Momentum: The Critical Severity buff from this feat has been reduced to match the tooltip.
This again is wrongly worded. The problem was that there was a bug with Deadly Momentum and the armor pen feats that caused weird numbers to show up in the character sheet. The character sheet was reflecting 1-5 stacks of 15% crit severity per stack. So basically the character sheet was showing a 75% bonus at 5 stacks instead of the intended 15%. You were never actually getting 75%, you got the 15%. This was only a UI error. YOU DID NOT GET NERFED. Just your character sheet now reads these two feat buffs appropriately.
PS. If you want to see proof of this you can spec into the top tree and see that you can get several billion armor penetration if you kill an AoE pack. I haven't explicitly tested it myself, but I used this feat set while leveling and I am pretty sure the mobs still had damage resistance. So you did not actually receive 100 billion armor pen.
Yea after double checking it looks like the way it works is as follows on the test realm.
*The mobs shows only one stack on bleed no matter how many TR's bash it's face in.
*If a TR gets a mob to 10 stacks, then you start you own stacks, you can't see your stacks but they will immediately be doing 10 stacks worth of damage. Both TR's will do full damage. Then the bug kicks in if one of their stacks are up too long, making that TR's bleed stop doing damage.
*Your stacks can "fall off" even if the other TR keeps stacking. This will let you reset to stop the bug.
*If your own stacks are up for too long, they will just stop doing damage altogether until they fall off. This is the bug.
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dargathiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 12Arc User
It shouldn't even be able to be used as an ALPHA attack, it's a friggin execution, the fact that you can pop it on someone at full health and do 75% of their health with a non-crit is a serious issue lol..
Agreed, Personally I'd like to see the damage (base and total) scale more dependent on how hurt the target is.. so on a fully healed opponent it can take (for example) at most 10% of their HP, scaling up to 100% of they have 10% of their HP left.
That would make it far more likely to be used as an execute rater than an opener.
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jezeen5Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
it works like that anyways, only bad TR's use it as an opener...using it as an opener usually ends badly especially against CW's
Death or Glory
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dargathiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 12Arc User
edited June 2013
It "sort of" works like that..
I shouldn't be able to open with it and hit for in some cases 100% of anyone's total HP (and I've done this so don't tell me I can't)
dont know since i dont know how the actual damage is calculated..not to mention that you didnt provide enough information anyway even if i would know it
all i know is that i have 15-18k on live and 10-11k on preview
and just like my damage isnt reduces by 60%, neither is yours
My range alone got nerfed by more than 40% because you probably stacked power while I stacked arm pen.
Someone like Sol would need to get on the preview server and run some tests on how power scales with the new changes.
My range alone got nerfed by more than 40% because you probably stacked power while I stacked arm pen.
Someone like Sol would need to get on the preview server and run some tests on how power scales with the new changes.
nope, not stacking power...since 2188 is hardly stacking
and the range got nerfed cause the overal damage got nerfed, thats normal
but no point in arguing over that, i showed that the damage wasnt reduced by 60% and thats why i posted here in the first place...the rest is just semantics
SE should kill someone around 50%, CW maybe at 60%.
Noone has been killed by SE at 100% health, maybe if your extremly low geared CW, the rogue is top decked out, has deadly momentum up and are in stealth.
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dargathiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 12Arc User
edited June 2013
I'm far from top decked out, and yes I have killed in PVP with SE as an opener... (and yes I was shocked when it happened)
The target was a low geared TR who then ranted for the rest of the match while sitting at their Base..
It was probably a lucky Crit or something, to be honest I never bothered checking logs since the guy just ranted on and on...
But my point is...
Base+weapon damage aside, the bonus damage scaling should be a lot more dependent on the targets health than it is currently which would alleviate a lot of the other classes issues with that one skill...
Well, as long as i can kill targets at 60-50% with it, im fine, its pretty much the only decent way to kill a astral shield cleric. Dont know how it will be after Astral Shield changes though
It seems there is some confusion about the Deadly Momentum and Duelist's Flurry "changes". A lot of this I can attribute to the people that write the patch notes not speaking English well, or simply not understanding the change. I will try to clarify these things. The actual implementation of the bleed on the test server (IE it being broken) is not what I am going to explain, just the problem they meant they were fixing.
-Duelist's Flurry: Credit for the bleed damage is now properly attributed if multiple Rogues apply stacks.
-Duelist's Flurry: Up to 10 stacks of the bleed effect can be applied to a single enemy regardless of how many Rogues applied them.
This is not saying only one rogue can have stacks. This is a badly worded way of saying that bleeds will no longer add stacks from 2 rogues together to make a 20 stack. Now each rogue *should* be able to make their own 10 stack, and receive appropriate credit for their bleed damage. The wording they used is misleading, but they are not in fact only allowing 1 rogue to use Duelist's Flurry.
-Feat: Deadly Momentum: The Critical Severity buff from this feat has been reduced to match the tooltip.
This again is wrongly worded. The problem was that there was a bug with Deadly Momentum and the armor pen feats that caused weird numbers to show up in the character sheet. The character sheet was reflecting 1-5 stacks of 15% crit severity per stack. So basically the character sheet was showing a 75% bonus at 5 stacks instead of the intended 15%. You were never actually getting 75%, you got the 15%. This was only a UI error. YOU DID NOT GET NERFED. Just your character sheet now reads these two feat buffs appropriately.
PS. If you want to see proof of this you can spec into the top tree and see that you can get several billion armor penetration if you kill an AoE pack. I haven't explicitly tested it myself, but I used this feat set while leveling and I am pretty sure the mobs still had damage resistance. So you did not actually receive 100 billion armor pen.
Great info...TY very much.
Can you comment on how "slow" the bleed ticks are now?
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kaladin32Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The nerf to SE is rather large. I only use SE in PVE when the boss is less than 25%. my highest crit that Ive gotten with it was a little over 73k that I rem seeing. ATM on live my SE tool tip reads for dmg 17,868-20923, and on the preview 12,290-13,563. The top end dmg was cut a lot.
Current unbuffed stats are
GS 11,730
Power- 4260
Crit- 4176
ArPen- 2154
Recovery- 1857
Def- 1431
Deflect- 206
Regen- 0
Life Steal- 780
Movement- 555
Atk = 9321
Crit Chance = 49.7%
Regen speed = 18.8%
Action point gain = 30.8%
Comments
It is huge because I'm on the test server with my toon copied over.
Regular SE on Dragon server:
15754-18694
Same gear and weapons on test server SE is now:
8692-9177
Ya, they nerfed it big time.
qq, TRs, no moar 1 shooting
And the bleed one is bugged as well. After a while, it doesn't do damage anymore. It will probably go live like this of course.
yep, just 2 more DF or so and no more bleed dmg
You think Shocking execution nerf is going to stop one shots? You do realise Lurkers assault increases Damage by 60% for 10 seconds.
Lashing blade and LA = one shot with an encounter. and that takes 2 seconds to achieve. You can then follow up with 12 daggers on whoevers standing around.
This nerf has just made it more clear to rogues that LA is the better option. As it always has been. And it just means we can't remove a threat that is in astral shield. But since you can't stack Astral shield, it's going to be depressing for healers when they get focused like hell in pvp. I feel sorry for them now.
Would be interesting how much more damage the bleeds do. If its better then yeah fine.
Also I am interested in seeing how much more damage encounters do. I hope Path of the blades does more damage. It's such a nice skill and also Wicked reminder I hope does more.
My last thoughts on the change:
- if they have nerfed flurry, they could have made animation faster and more reach.
- The Shocking execution is Nothing to worry about. Since we don't need it anyway, Lurkers assault is so much better.
- The Action point gain is fairly slow for Rogues, which is ok i guess but would be nice to be upped just a slight bit.
- Tenebrous needs to be nerfed or fixed = it should be armor enchant or weapon enchant only. And it shouldn't stack.
- Blood bath will be interesting to see how much more damage it does. Also it should have two modes, if you are not targeting anyone it should just hit anything in a radius. If you are fixed on a target it should dash around that target only. (focused damage)
-I'm happy about the texture fix. Good work :>
-It always confused me why the Rogue, only has 2 dodges in a bar, whilst the magic class has 3 teleports? Why does CW have 3 and everyone else that dodges has 2. I think Healers should get 3, Rogues should get 3 as well or bring down the CW's to 2. Personally I think you should give people 3 to keep it balanced.
-Flurrys first 2 animations are too slow. And you should be allowed to use the first two hits and the 3rd flurry should be prolonged further instead of resetting so fast. Although this is probably balanced, in pve It's annoying getting lagged out and mobs moving away before the 3rd gets it's hit. Perhaps having it so if you hit with the 2nd hit, you are latched on unless the target dodges. (keeping balance in pvp)
- pvp gear should be more effective in pvp. And pve gear shouldn't be more effective.
I think the stats on pvp gear should be increased or new rewards that cost alot more so that the pvp players can still play competitively in the pvp just by pvping. I personally am forced into pve to stay competitive in pvp. which is expected, but perhaps you should include winner's boxes to the winners in pvp, that has a chance to drop say better pvp gear tokens (basically emulating the PVE enviroment where you have to do multiple instances to gain the gear.)
All this will boost pvp and make it more competitive and rewarding, whilst keeping it in line with the pve instances.
1xpvp match = 10-15 mins and if you win you gain the new tokens.
1xpve instance = 30-120 minutes with a chance to gain gear.
Just make it so 2 hours worth of wins (8wins) is enough to gain a piece of equipment.
Winning though only. Not just farming loses. (great work for the reduced losing rewards btw its a good move)
Its a good thing, cuz it shouldnt be used for opener, should be used for finisher as intended !
-Duelist's Flurry: Credit for the bleed damage is now properly attributed if multiple Rogues apply stacks.
-Duelist's Flurry: Up to 10 stacks of the bleed effect can be applied to a single enemy regardless of how many Rogues applied them.
This is not saying only one rogue can have stacks. This is a badly worded way of saying that bleeds will no longer add stacks from 2 rogues together to make a 20 stack. Now each rogue *should* be able to make their own 10 stack, and receive appropriate credit for their bleed damage. The wording they used is misleading, but they are not in fact only allowing 1 rogue to use Duelist's Flurry.
You can also see a better formatted version of the guide here.
Someone please sticky this on the front page right now. Just do it.
this set my mind at ease but the 60% nerf to SE that someone confirmed above to be a huge 60% over all nerf not just the small 1000 others have said is still crazy over the top makes it unusable as others are just far superior
yes, there is less damage, but it aint 60%
for example i only lose about 30% on the preview server compared to live
I'm on the preview server as well. How do you explain my numbers then when I mouseover SE:
Regular SE on Dragon server:
15754-18694 Physical damage
Same gear and weapons on test server SE is now:
8692-9177 Physical damage
all i know is that i have 15-18k on live and 10-11k on preview
and just like my damage isnt reduces by 60%, neither is yours
Yea after double checking it looks like the way it works is as follows on the test realm.
*The mobs shows only one stack on bleed no matter how many TR's bash it's face in.
*If a TR gets a mob to 10 stacks, then you start you own stacks, you can't see your stacks but they will immediately be doing 10 stacks worth of damage. Both TR's will do full damage. Then the bug kicks in if one of their stacks are up too long, making that TR's bleed stop doing damage.
*Your stacks can "fall off" even if the other TR keeps stacking. This will let you reset to stop the bug.
*If your own stacks are up for too long, they will just stop doing damage altogether until they fall off. This is the bug.
Agreed, Personally I'd like to see the damage (base and total) scale more dependent on how hurt the target is.. so on a fully healed opponent it can take (for example) at most 10% of their HP, scaling up to 100% of they have 10% of their HP left.
That would make it far more likely to be used as an execute rater than an opener.
I shouldn't be able to open with it and hit for in some cases 100% of anyone's total HP (and I've done this so don't tell me I can't)
My range alone got nerfed by more than 40% because you probably stacked power while I stacked arm pen.
Someone like Sol would need to get on the preview server and run some tests on how power scales with the new changes.
and the range got nerfed cause the overal damage got nerfed, thats normal
but no point in arguing over that, i showed that the damage wasnt reduced by 60% and thats why i posted here in the first place...the rest is just semantics
Noone has been killed by SE at 100% health, maybe if your extremly low geared CW, the rogue is top decked out, has deadly momentum up and are in stealth.
The target was a low geared TR who then ranted for the rest of the match while sitting at their Base..
It was probably a lucky Crit or something, to be honest I never bothered checking logs since the guy just ranted on and on...
But my point is...
Base+weapon damage aside, the bonus damage scaling should be a lot more dependent on the targets health than it is currently which would alleviate a lot of the other classes issues with that one skill...
Great info...TY very much.
Can you comment on how "slow" the bleed ticks are now?
Seems it's every 2 seconds vs every second now
Current unbuffed stats are
GS 11,730
Power- 4260
Crit- 4176
ArPen- 2154
Recovery- 1857
Def- 1431
Deflect- 206
Regen- 0
Life Steal- 780
Movement- 555
Atk = 9321
Crit Chance = 49.7%
Regen speed = 18.8%
Action point gain = 30.8%