The SE nerf is all ok, it will force people to use it for what it's supposed to, as an execute style skill. It's also not a 60% nerf, it's a 60% base damage nerf, big difference.
The DF nerf I dont care about, I've never been a fan of the skill nor getting massive numbers. I rather debuff so the rest of the group can bring more damage to the table. Which would you prefer, getting 1mill more personal damage calculated at the end or 500k extra damage for each group member at the end? Yeesh, tough choise... no not really.
DF isnt reliable if you want to debuff, smoke or otherwise make your groups time easier. Once the flurry goes off, you are stuck in animation.
What I would love to see is a way to turn off the animation for lurkers assault, I hate the grey and red screen and would love an option to turn it off. Right now I try and stay clear of the skill even though it's sweet, but the grey screen really is a turn off.
You dislike our most powerfull anytimer which is easy 80% of our overall dps but on top of that you refuse to use lurkers because its harder to see AE? i feel soo sorry for the groups you ran with. do yourself a favour and level another class.
You dislike our most powerfull anytimer which is easy 80% of our overall dps but on top of that you refuse to use lurkers because its harder to see AE? i feel soo sorry for the groups you ran with. do yourself a favour and level another class.
It's ok, he's just ' special' 8)
Carnage TR Dragon shard - retired? hell yea it's retired along with Nevewinter
you can take out the lurker's effect by adjusting your video options carefully, i don't remember how to but some thread had the specifics on this, search a bit around.
that said, TR "debuffing" isn't going to get the group DPS up enough to make up for not using flurry, not one bit. the only serious damage oriented debuff we have is wicked reminder which most people already use inbetween flurrys. honestly if i'm running a dungeon with my non-tr character and the TR refuses to use flurry and lurker i'll just look at them as dead-weight. nobody needs a DPS that can't dps properly.
smoke bomb? yeah sure, if all you're doing is use smoke and sub-par damage rotations i would rather have a CW in the group which will do it much much better.
The SE nerf is all ok, it will force people to use it for what it's supposed to, as an execute style skill. It's also not a 60% nerf, it's a 60% base damage nerf, big difference.
The DF nerf I dont care about, I've never been a fan of the skill nor getting massive numbers. I rather debuff so the rest of the group can bring more damage to the table. Which would you prefer, getting 1mill more personal damage calculated at the end or 500k extra damage for each group member at the end? Yeesh, tough choise... no not really.
DF isnt reliable if you want to debuff, smoke or otherwise make your groups time easier. Once the flurry goes off, you are stuck in animation.
What I would love to see is a way to turn off the animation for lurkers assault, I hate the grey and red screen and would love an option to turn it off. Right now I try and stay clear of the skill even though it's sweet, but the grey screen really is a turn off.
After reading this I LOLD SO HARD THAT I PEED A LITTLE !!!! What kashimaa1 Said plz do us all a favor and reroll another class and trust me the whole **** nw player base will thank u
1stly On op those that are saying SE reduction, its a reduction based on base damage and wont effect much plz go and check it in test servers, its a massive reduction imo , And u know what Its called "Shocking Execution" not "LAME EXECUTION" . To all the QQ'ers TR are not meant to be outdps'd by gf and gwf cause we dont have their defence nor hp !!! U dont blv me, wait till 20th when u gonna HAMSTER ur pants watching ur tr ...
2ndly Impossible to Catch !! are u freaking kidding me ? Who in the world will be dumb enough to try to cc when they see a black coated rouge coming for them knowing they are immune ? For the dumb effing devs NO FREAKING 1. They will just run till it wears off and then kill us with their tongue, wont even use fingers >.<
The only thing im hoping for is that power do give us some good damage but knowing how very much often(!!!!!!!!!!) we use encounter in pve rather then our df !!!! im overjoyed overshoot-ed to the moon thinking how much damage we gonna contribute to group fight !!! Plz guys QQ mawrr so they actually just remove tr ... I mean who needs another class that focuses and excels single target dps right !!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Let the darkness prevail ,,For I rise from there ..
The SE nerf is all ok, it will force people to use it for what it's supposed to, as an execute style skill. It's also not a 60% nerf, it's a 60% base damage nerf, big difference.
The DF nerf I dont care about, I've never been a fan of the skill nor getting massive numbers. I rather debuff so the rest of the group can bring more damage to the table. Which would you prefer, getting 1mill more personal damage calculated at the end or 500k extra damage for each group member at the end? Yeesh, tough choise... no not really.
DF isnt reliable if you want to debuff, smoke or otherwise make your groups time easier. Once the flurry goes off, you are stuck in animation.
What I would love to see is a way to turn off the animation for lurkers assault, I hate the grey and red screen and would love an option to turn it off. Right now I try and stay clear of the skill even though it's sweet, but the grey screen really is a turn off.
WTF are you even blabbing about? You don't care about DF, our primary damage source and would rather debuff? ROFL Sounds like you're just another horrible, useless, ignorant Rogue that gets carried in every group you join. I've seen too many of your types around.
I may get flamed hard by this, I know this is the internet and this a forum, but I've seen some really rude people around. Guys, I know a few of you are mad about the changes, but there is no need to call others players "useless" or "ignorant" or things like that.
calling someone useless is not an insult, if you're purposely specc'ing your character to emulate the role of a different class but worse while neglecting the core aspect of your own well... yes, you're going to be pretty useless in any difficult dungeon.
And come the 20th, if the patch does what we think it does, we will all be useless... Does that mean Neverwinter is insulting all of us?
And good rogues debuff too depending on the situation. Smoke for crowded fights, dazing for singularity, and wicked reminder all the time. And then switch back for your main set during bosses. We will never be able to CC the way a CW can though. The option to turn off the lurkers thing is to disable post-processing in video options - I believe.
the funny thing is rogue is probably getting -stronger- in pvp... i mean, SE got nerfed (nobody cares) but our encounter will do more damage (more effect from power). uh... what? big pve nerf and pvp buff? i don't get it at all.
the funny thing is rogue is probably getting -stronger- in pvp... i mean, SE got nerfed (nobody cares) but our encounter will do more damage (more effect from power). uh... what? big pve nerf and pvp buff? i don't get it at all.
This pretty much. The only result I expect to see from this is increased crying in both PVE and PVP. People on PVP will be like blah bleh bluh stealth 1hko LB followed by 2hko from impact shot bluh bleh bl
If you really thought that holding down one button and stacking a lot of crit gear was somehow an achievement for this class, whose entire success depended upon being able to preform this... really complex maneuver, then I'm glad you think its' dead. Rogue was really set up to encourage mindlessness which is evidently rampant if this forums is any indication. Yes, your "I hold dis button drrr" playstyle is probably not as effective anymore but you really should start doing tests with the OTHER myriad of things they changed with the class (all of the classes) before we go off spouting doom logic.
By the way, Rogue's are not *that* squishy if you are paying any attention at all to what you are doing. One of your key abilities is literally being invisible and having nobody attacking you. The other involves invincibility frames and repositioning. That's a whole two extra buttons for the average rogue player to learn, but I'm positive that with practice the community will pull through.
SE needed to be nerfed for the sake of PVP, 1 and 2 shotting mail and plate classes in pvp. The abillity will still hit certain classes really hard due to their low HP. The problem was that it took 80-100% of the HP away from classes that are supose to be good at taking dmg. Having a "I win button" against every one and single class is HAMSTER. Something needed to be done. What this patch generaly does for TR's are lowering their dmg against higher armoured classes while maintaining it against the lower armoured ones. Wich is the way the class should work.
SE was never that good to begin with, the nerf won't make any difference in pvp, the increased encounter damage instead *will* make a lot of people cry. just use lurker assault to take down those GF or cleric in their circles (which is getting nerfed anyway so you won't even need SE for 50% of the situations it was useful before).
and it's not like the new patch makes the rogue less "mindless": you still want to use lurker+stealth to setup the highest bleed possible. it would have been cool if we had been given an "alternative" to flurry that wasn't as "mindless", instaed they just nerfed the main boss-buster class by 40% or more. rogues will do the exact same thing, except worse in pve and better in pvp. really, it's pretty stupid if you look at it this way.
not just that, but the GF is getting boosted too, while it was already the scariest pvp class bar none (yes, scarier than cw imho) it will now destroy everything. i can almost see GF taking the rogue role taking down bosses as we got our dps nerfed so much in pve they can almost keep up in single target damage but bring a lot more utility to the party.
it's because pvp is stupid that i'm bothered by pve nerf, and yes i know encounters work, so tell me exactly what rotation of encounters goes close to the damage output of a flurry oriented rotation. do consider that setup already uses lashing blade and wicked reminder commonly.
i have a fully pve specced TR and i couldn't care less about it's pvp performance but the changes are just silly.
master assassin nerfed -> now the only good set for TR is swash.
plaguefire nerfed -> now the only good TR enchant is vorpal
flurry build nerfed by 45-50% DPS -> now rogues hardly contribute something good to the party
encounters damage boosted -> only relevant to pvp anyway
what i see is a reduction in viable choiches for equip and a reduction in rogue utility pve, but a boost to pvp which a lot of people ar enot even itnerested in anyway.
I'm actually liking this patch. Looks like they are going for more variability in builds instead of one cookie-cutter.
(I've never liked the idea of abusing non-recalculation of bleed ticks to do big damage so I went Scoundrel and never looked back. I don't need Crit. Power has better dmg-per-point anyway. And now it's boosting Encounters even more? Sweet. I'm using Sly Flourish because Duelist's Flurry is really hard to use in between fast-cd Encounters so no big nerf here either. And they fixed Catspaw Style (was increasing targets defense instead of reducing). I don't really care about PvP but I'm using Shocking Execution on single target (I don't have to wait 10s to start gaining AP again) so a little nerf here. And yeah, it turns out to be "look at me, I'm using non mainstream build" post. )
it's because pvp is stupid that i'm bothered by pve nerf, and yes i know encounters work, so tell me exactly what rotation of encounters goes close to the damage output of a flurry oriented rotation. do consider that setup already uses lashing blade and wicked reminder commonly.
i have a fully pve specced TR and i couldn't care less about it's pvp performance but the changes are just silly.
master assassin nerfed -> now the only good set for TR is swash.
plaguefire nerfed -> now the only good TR enchant is vorpal
flurry build nerfed by 45-50% DPS -> now rogues hardly contribute something good to the party
encounters damage boosted -> only relevant to pvp anyway
what i see is a reduction in viable choiches for equip and a reduction in rogue utility pve, but a boost to pvp which a lot of people ar enot even itnerested in anyway.
so let's see
master assassin nerfed -> now the only good set for TR is swash.
-> fixed. doesn't matter swash is better anyway.
plaguefire nerfed -> now the only good TR enchant is vorpal.
-> use vorpal = issue solved
flurry build nerfed by 45-50% DPS -> now rogues hardly contribute something good to the party
-> your numbers are way to high (bleed ticks 1.5 seconds instead of 1). deadly momentum cs got nerfed by 60% (75 to 15). now you can't say you crit 100%... so you have to work with let's say 50% crit rate - so this 50% of your attacks lose damage (numbers depend on how many dm stacks are up (in a whole dungeon this is marked by unsteadiness). yeah we got nerfed - maybe tooooo much - but wait until you have real numbers. i don't think a cw, gf, gwf or cleric will deal as much single target as we do. further you have to take into account that aggro changed so maybe (!) we get even more out of our combat advantage (depends on group and how you engage various situations - same as dmg... good players (with right feats, skills and usage) will always buff the whole group - so the same setup becomes better or worse.)
i have to see if scoundrel actually stands a chanche in comparison to executioner for pve boss damage, but i don't see how sly flourish spam can get a damage output comparable to 20-40k damage ticks per second...
btw if it's 1.5 instaed of 1 sec that's better than i thought, other people from prewiev say it's 2 sec, the difference isn't little, hope the 2 sec crowd got it wrong.
and swash is better than master assassin, sure, but if master assassin gets 4000 power boost in lurker it at least has it's perks and can be considered over swash, if swash gets 1000/1000 the whole dg and assassin 1300 during daily then the alternative isn't even close. same for plague fire, sure, i can get myself a greater vorpal too but it kind of kills variety, i liked my flaming dagger.
yeah variety isn't that much given i have to agree (sadly). as i mentioned i think executioner will stay as cookie-cutter but with slight modifications. maybe even more if we let the crit feat out (which hurts the whole group you have to remember that) and will cost us our critical overrun. maybe adding something like "nimble blade" for our non crits (50% or more ;D).
at the moment i am gathering build ideas. so feel free to post'em.
In general rogue got buffed at pvp and got nerfed pve.Sad for me with the master assassins fix i need to buy a swash for pve now because ma its just dont worth it in pve anymore.Although its still so good in pvp ( tested in in the shard) because the power scale better.Im definetely gonna change my executioner tree to something hybrid i guess.It became useless for me who im pvping mostly, i cant even use the crit buff after SE because i wont use SE anymore.Nevertheless to all rogues out there dont worry we will make it work and be no1 as always .
to be honest if it's nerfed so significantly i'd leave out deadly momentum and go get nimble blade with those 5 points. nimble blade (assuming 50% crit even tho it's usually more like 49-48%) is an average damage increase of 3.5%, while deadly momentum in the same conditions is 7.5%.
the big difference is that deadly momentum requires a setup time and nimble blade doesn't. they both interact with bleed except nimble blade can make a "failed crit bleed" decent but won't boost the highest number possible critical one. overall i'd say deadly momentum still comes on top for boss busting while nimble blade has more use against targets that won't give you time to setup (pve trash, pvp)
edit: also i never liked the shocking execution boosting feat, i always used threat reduction and it works fine for me, hardly any enemy bothers to go after me when i'm working on bosses (except the boss itself which doesn't like the hurt). might be even more important now that SE got nerfed and cleric aren't an aggro magnet anymore.
i saw it as a filler and for pvp (shocking execution boosting feat) but with the nerf and the new aggro you are right putting it into threat reduction. how to value critical overrun when you don't get dm and i guess you left out some crit as well (since we don't get it anymore)?
Comments
The DF nerf I dont care about, I've never been a fan of the skill nor getting massive numbers. I rather debuff so the rest of the group can bring more damage to the table. Which would you prefer, getting 1mill more personal damage calculated at the end or 500k extra damage for each group member at the end? Yeesh, tough choise... no not really.
DF isnt reliable if you want to debuff, smoke or otherwise make your groups time easier. Once the flurry goes off, you are stuck in animation.
What I would love to see is a way to turn off the animation for lurkers assault, I hate the grey and red screen and would love an option to turn it off. Right now I try and stay clear of the skill even though it's sweet, but the grey screen really is a turn off.
It's ok, he's just ' special' 8)
Seze - Rogue - Necropolis -
that said, TR "debuffing" isn't going to get the group DPS up enough to make up for not using flurry, not one bit. the only serious damage oriented debuff we have is wicked reminder which most people already use inbetween flurrys. honestly if i'm running a dungeon with my non-tr character and the TR refuses to use flurry and lurker i'll just look at them as dead-weight. nobody needs a DPS that can't dps properly.
smoke bomb? yeah sure, if all you're doing is use smoke and sub-par damage rotations i would rather have a CW in the group which will do it much much better.
After reading this I LOLD SO HARD THAT I PEED A LITTLE !!!! What kashimaa1 Said plz do us all a favor and reroll another class and trust me the whole **** nw player base will thank u
1stly On op those that are saying SE reduction, its a reduction based on base damage and wont effect much plz go and check it in test servers, its a massive reduction imo , And u know what Its called "Shocking Execution" not "LAME EXECUTION" . To all the QQ'ers TR are not meant to be outdps'd by gf and gwf cause we dont have their defence nor hp !!! U dont blv me, wait till 20th when u gonna HAMSTER ur pants watching ur tr
2ndly Impossible to Catch !! are u freaking kidding me ? Who in the world will be dumb enough to try to cc when they see a black coated rouge coming for them knowing they are immune ? For the dumb effing devs NO FREAKING 1. They will just run till it wears off and then kill us with their tongue, wont even use fingers >.<
The only thing im hoping for is that power do give us some good damage but knowing how very much often(!!!!!!!!!!) we use encounter in pve rather then our df !!!! im overjoyed overshoot-ed to the moon thinking how much damage we gonna contribute to group fight !!! Plz guys QQ mawrr so they actually just remove tr ... I mean who needs another class that focuses and excels single target dps right !!
Let the darkness prevail ,,For I rise from there ..
WTF are you even blabbing about? You don't care about DF, our primary damage source and would rather debuff? ROFL Sounds like you're just another horrible, useless, ignorant Rogue that gets carried in every group you join. I've seen too many of your types around.
And good rogues debuff too depending on the situation. Smoke for crowded fights, dazing for singularity, and wicked reminder all the time. And then switch back for your main set during bosses. We will never be able to CC the way a CW can though. The option to turn off the lurkers thing is to disable post-processing in video options - I believe.
This pretty much. The only result I expect to see from this is increased crying in both PVE and PVP. People on PVP will be like blah bleh bluh stealth 1hko LB followed by 2hko from impact shot bluh bleh bl
By the way, Rogue's are not *that* squishy if you are paying any attention at all to what you are doing. One of your key abilities is literally being invisible and having nobody attacking you. The other involves invincibility frames and repositioning. That's a whole two extra buttons for the average rogue player to learn, but I'm positive that with practice the community will pull through.
I really hate the platform jumping crowd.
and it's not like the new patch makes the rogue less "mindless": you still want to use lurker+stealth to setup the highest bleed possible. it would have been cool if we had been given an "alternative" to flurry that wasn't as "mindless", instaed they just nerfed the main boss-buster class by 40% or more. rogues will do the exact same thing, except worse in pve and better in pvp. really, it's pretty stupid if you look at it this way.
not just that, but the GF is getting boosted too, while it was already the scariest pvp class bar none (yes, scarier than cw imho) it will now destroy everything. i can almost see GF taking the rogue role taking down bosses as we got our dps nerfed so much in pve they can almost keep up in single target damage but bring a lot more utility to the party.
Woo.
You know that encounters work in PVE too, right?
i have a fully pve specced TR and i couldn't care less about it's pvp performance but the changes are just silly.
master assassin nerfed -> now the only good set for TR is swash.
plaguefire nerfed -> now the only good TR enchant is vorpal
flurry build nerfed by 45-50% DPS -> now rogues hardly contribute something good to the party
encounters damage boosted -> only relevant to pvp anyway
what i see is a reduction in viable choiches for equip and a reduction in rogue utility pve, but a boost to pvp which a lot of people ar enot even itnerested in anyway.
I'm ONLY interested in PVP and so a lot of other people
*cries himself to sleep*
(I've never liked the idea of abusing non-recalculation of bleed ticks to do big damage so I went Scoundrel and never looked back. I don't need Crit. Power has better dmg-per-point anyway. And now it's boosting Encounters even more? Sweet. I'm using Sly Flourish because Duelist's Flurry is really hard to use in between fast-cd Encounters so no big nerf here either. And they fixed Catspaw Style (was increasing targets defense instead of reducing). I don't really care about PvP but I'm using Shocking Execution on single target (I don't have to wait 10s to start gaining AP again) so a little nerf here. And yeah, it turns out to be "look at me, I'm using non mainstream build" post.
so let's see
- master assassin nerfed -> now the only good set for TR is swash.
-> fixed. doesn't matter swash is better anyway.- plaguefire nerfed -> now the only good TR enchant is vorpal.
-> use vorpal = issue solved- flurry build nerfed by 45-50% DPS -> now rogues hardly contribute something good to the party
-> your numbers are way to high (bleed ticks 1.5 seconds instead of 1). deadly momentum cs got nerfed by 60% (75 to 15). now you can't say you crit 100%... so you have to work with let's say 50% crit rate - so this 50% of your attacks lose damage (numbers depend on how many dm stacks are up (in a whole dungeon this is marked by unsteadiness). yeah we got nerfed - maybe tooooo much - but wait until you have real numbers. i don't think a cw, gf, gwf or cleric will deal as much single target as we do. further you have to take into account that aggro changed so maybe (!) we get even more out of our combat advantage (depends on group and how you engage various situations - same as dmg... good players (with right feats, skills and usage) will always buff the whole group - so the same setup becomes better or worse.)as i wrote in another thread (http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?344191-TR-maxdps-crit-build-(past-update)&p=4391562&viewfull=1#post4391562):
- encounters damage boosted -> only relevant to pvp anyway
-> contributes only a very small amout to pve i have to admitconclusion: don't give up -> make rogue work
p.s. i would really like to see more opinions and different builds -> just use http://reyva.com/resources/neverwinter-powers-feat-simulator.9/#bPq
btw if it's 1.5 instaed of 1 sec that's better than i thought, other people from prewiev say it's 2 sec, the difference isn't little, hope the 2 sec crowd got it wrong.
and swash is better than master assassin, sure, but if master assassin gets 4000 power boost in lurker it at least has it's perks and can be considered over swash, if swash gets 1000/1000 the whole dg and assassin 1300 during daily then the alternative isn't even close. same for plague fire, sure, i can get myself a greater vorpal too but it kind of kills variety, i liked my flaming dagger.
at the moment i am gathering build ideas. so feel free to post'em.
current build:
http://reyva.com/resources/neverwinter-powers-feat-simulator.9/#crCYLJvnJVR3Fz9wuJbsm9cRMZp4UIl2kc1eflRufQrHhd9aFE7UiZ3YuFfms9FR62ACyK22g
maybe alternative ones (MAYBE):
1. http://reyva.com/resources/neverwinter-powers-feat-simulator.9/#crBBRPGVPxxlpXtRmHyRhmuYRnEvtnrpTXHtVrE9QlMku0HeYgpryi0F3PZtzHMlwN14PBdOE (my actual #1)
2. http://reyva.com/resources/neverwinter-powers-feat-simulator.9/#ftaiiKQuBk8Mul6mZgjmNrf3ivLVZeJ6q2NAIGwWE0Sgblrj24f6CixLhX5vgSHy55iKze
3. http://reyva.com/resources/neverwinter-powers-feat-simulator.9/#bEnaIi4mbSf9nwi6BtNtCcd4Nlz4aMeliy5tQrv7KZIOnGKiVEEQESkQAmBN4euly (so many losses... 4 or 5% crit, 25% crit severity, no crit overrun, but with buff to flourish and cloud of steel, action rush might not be worth it but brutal wound isn't neither + i don't think that whirlwind sneak attack is of any real usage)
4. http://reyva.com/resources/neverwinter-powers-feat-simulator.9/#GJgLrLqiThbXJ1RlQSDVnUMMkyymjzfzBcXV6nWpOEXT8ssEZVkgG6JqmKkWWEGiAg (maybe the worst of all till now
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the big difference is that deadly momentum requires a setup time and nimble blade doesn't. they both interact with bleed except nimble blade can make a "failed crit bleed" decent but won't boost the highest number possible critical one. overall i'd say deadly momentum still comes on top for boss busting while nimble blade has more use against targets that won't give you time to setup (pve trash, pvp)
edit: also i never liked the shocking execution boosting feat, i always used threat reduction and it works fine for me, hardly any enemy bothers to go after me when i'm working on bosses (except the boss itself which doesn't like the hurt). might be even more important now that SE got nerfed and cleric aren't an aggro magnet anymore.
My pvp feats will be something like that.Would that work in pve?Dont think so
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