Why don't you try it before you freak out? It's not like your going to be pitted against some hardcore PVP Team, chances are you will be pitted against a team just like you that hates it too. It might be fun.
Its just a little battle, sheeesh. 50% Chance you can be afk for the whole ting and your team will still win. Everyone's getting upset over nothing.
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bellaralodunMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Maybe he is bad. Maybe not. I'm pretty lousy at PvP.
But that's not relevant. PvP and PvE are very different. It's entirely reasonable for people to like one and not the other. Mixing them together forcibly is not a good idea.
Why not mix them up? I mean... it would be something different for this game that other games seem to avoid. What is wrong with a little pvp? PVP is always different, you cannot predict what other players about to do. PVPer is a great idea! Especially if you're fighting for something worth getting... access to better T2 gear.
I great part is, this allows people that are prim-pvp a place to shine/be helpful in exchange for a chance at better pve gear. I love this idea.
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bellaralodunMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Why don't you try it before you freak out? It's not like your going to be pitted against some hardcore PVP Team, chances are you will be pitted against a team just like you that hates it too. It might be fun.
Its just a little battle, sheeesh. 50% Chance you can be afk for the whole ting and your team will still win. Everyone's getting upset over nothing.
I agree, let them try it. I just do not understand why people people get their panties in a bunch whither they die from a boss/trash vs. being out skilled by another player. You die either way! ...
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quorforgedMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Why don't you try it before you freak out? It's not like your going to be pitted against some hardcore PVP Team, chances are you will be pitted against a team just like you that hates it too. It might be fun.
Its just a little battle, sheeesh. 50% Chance you can be afk for the whole ting and your team will still win. Everyone's getting upset over nothing.
Are you aware of what a "beta" is and what "feedback" is and why it's the whole point of a beta? And that the earlier feedback is given, the easier it is to use it?
Grym coins are of epic quality, opposed to blue that drake seals are, so they better earn some good rewards :P.
(In case you wonder, founder packs award 2 grym coins for hitting level 60).
Everyone gets those coins. Haven't paid a cent, and I got them when I capped.
I suppose it's possible that by T1 and T2 they mean tier 1 and tier 2 of Gauntlgrym rewards, not referring to the established T1 and T2 for the existing dungeons. That would be confusing.
If I remember correctly, in CBT there were 2 events for Gauntlgyrm: a level 60 Arena that constituted a 20v20vE which gave the winning faction access to a dungeon or buffs when they enter a dungeon, and the dungeon themselves.
This was all from the Gauntlgyrm Event tooltips, of course, so I could easily be wrong.
Why not mix them up? I mean... it would be something different for this game that other games seem to avoid. What is wrong with a little pvp? PVP is always different, you cannot predict what other players about to do. PVPer is a great idea! Especially if you're fighting for something worth getting... access to better T2 gear.
I great part is, this allows people that are prim-pvp a place to shine/be helpful in exchange for a chance at better pve gear. I love this idea.
Because it's forced. Both types of players more often than not have different builds and experience with PVP and PVE and want different things also. This is pretty obvious as it's been there constantly in communication and feedback in a ton of MMO games now from my experience. The pvp in this game is also considered "nearly unplayable" to most what with all the bugs, so the confidence in them being able to deliver this in a professional manner is at an all time low.
Folks aren't out and out raging against this, because all that will happen is they'll be trolled by folks who blindly defend the game or posture at defending to be more precise, and it only incites more flame. People are taking the other option methinks. Ignoring the news and getting whatever enjoyment from the game they can, while repeating the mantra "At least it's not SWTOR's F2P"
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quorforgedMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
What is wrong with a little pvp? PVP is always different, you cannot predict what other players about to do.
PvP is also horribly balanced, rife with cheese tactics, and where the pay-for-power this game is built on is the most impactful.
It comes down to a person's personal tastes, and I have no intention of changing yours, but it's clear that there are lot of people who dislike PvP (and some that dislike PvE). I think the number of players that are roughly equal in their interests in both are quite small in number.
PvP is also horribly balanced, rife with cheese tactics, and where the pay-for-power this game is built on is the most impactful.
It comes down to a person's personal tastes, and I have no intention of changing yours, but it's clear that there are lot of people who dislike PvP (and some that dislike PvE). I think the number of players that are roughly equal in their interests in both are quite small in number.
I think the number of players that are roughly equal in their interests in both are quite small in number.
Considering that there is plenty of well geared people running in PvP, and that to be well geared you have to either do PvE or spend absurd amounts of money on the game, I think you are quite wrong. I, for one, like both.
Well done Cryptic , more wood into the fire , endless drama in the forums again , and aye , you have definitely made the pvper's happy , lets hope you get to think of those who will "NOT" let you decide what kind of gameplay we enjoy!
After this news i fear the class balances that you announce , will you, like so many be destroying the game to cater for pvp whiners while you sacrafice pve builds?????
The pvp veterans will ofcourse swallow up the non pvper's who are forced to do pvp content to "GET A CHANCE" at Gauntlgrym , get serious guys , people that do not like pvp are not going to be in queues waiting for a pvp match to attempt a dungeon.
You have actually promoted pvp content , and ofcourse neglected the majority of your players who don't enjoy pvp.
Well done Cryptic , more wood into the fire , endless drama in the forums again
Unless you are 5 years old, you should know by now that people will ALWAYS complain, no matter what you give them or what you say to them.
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tyr216Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
If I was a pure PvP'er, I'd be just as upset as the pure PvE'ers right now. The two extremes have little to no tolerance for the other. That's what makes them extreme. Many of us will suck it up and deal with the parts of it we don't like anyhow.
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magsondareMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
I just watched the trailer and all I could think throughout it was "Fail design. Epic fail." I and all of my friends who I play with find pvp in any game to be pointless at best, and none of us participate in pvp in any manner in any game that we play. So now, the end-game of this requires a timed pve event to lead in to a pvp event in order to unlock a dungeon and if you lose the pvp then you get the crappy dungeon?
As has already been said -- whoever loses the pvp match will then drop. That T1 dungeon is wasted content and will rarely ever be run. Beyond that, people like me and my friends won't ever bother to join the thing in the 1stp lace since there's that pvp match in the middle, and (anecdotal number pulled out of my hindquarters) I think at least 50% of the players in any game are the same, so this content will already be limited in who accesses it by being a raid (What's the estimate? A max of 15% of players ever raid in an MMO?) will then have the already limited access to it be further limited by people who don't like pvp and thus CBA to ever do it.
Looks awesome! Pity the ones who don't like / aren't good at pvp are complaining so much. =( Let the rest of us have some fun!
When the cold of winter comes starless night will cover day,
In the veiling of the sun we will walk in bitter rain.
But in dreams I can hear your name,
And in dreams we will meet again.
If I was a pure PvP'er, I'd be just as upset as the pure PvE'ers right now. The two extremes have little to no tolerance for the other. That's what makes them extreme. Many of us will suck it up and deal with the parts of it we don't like anyhow.
Exactly tyr216 , the 100% pvper's will actually gain access to something they dont' give a **** about , while the ones actually interested in the lore and the dungeon didn't even bother to queue .
I'm curious to know tho , will the dungeon loot be for pvp or pve ........ go figure!!
If all the T2 pve gear already drops in other dungeons , do they refer to T2 pvp gear ?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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tyr216Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Good thing that it's just dropping T2 gear and so you don't have to go there ever, eh?
Unless they have already seen the rest of the content and want to experience the new content. Cryptic is releasing a big piece of content and is only catering it to a certain demographic. The excluded demographic is angered by this. It's a pretty normal reaction. Wouldn't all the PvP'ers be just as upset if they didn't get any new content instead?
Looks awesome! Pity the ones who don't like / aren't good at pvp are complaining so much. =( Let the rest of us have some fun!
I'm sure you will, chances are nothing about this design will be changed from now until release or ever even. But that doesn't mean others won't be let down by the fact it's pushing PVP onto players if they want to see the new content. I play PVP games, they're purely dedicated and designed for said PVP and it shows in those games, those that don't separate their PVP and PVE content, end up with complete "FUSTERCLUCKS" of balance. This is a short sighted naive goal which inevitably is just a BAD idea.
But some folks will enjoy any old tat thrown their way, and thanks to the lack of competition in this F2P MMO market and ridiculously low standards, it will probably retain enough players to get folks herping and a derping in it simply because there's not much better out in the genre at the moment.
Unless they have already seen the rest of the content and want to experience the new content. Cryptic is releasing a big piece of content and is only catering it to a certain demographic. The excluded demographic is angered by this. It's a pretty normal reaction. Wouldn't all the PvP'ers be just as upset if they didn't get any new content instead?
It's a pretty normal reaction, for a child. There is one PvP mode played on two maps and just... how many dungeons? We don't even have a dueling system or any sort of ranking or ratings, in fact there is no purpose to PvP at all at the moment, other than getting gear that is inferior to PvE. And here we are, with a trailer showing mixed PvP and PvE content, and people crying that PvE, out of the all things in the game, is being neglected. This amount of hypocrisy is too much for me to sympathise with, I'm sorry.
Trailer looks good, content looks interesting, and you are entitled to your opinions.
Yeah, it's the worst of both worlds. PVP'ers have to PVE and PVE'ers have to PVP. Think I'll just pass on it all together. Not worth the trouble for the same gear that most people already have. Just going to further flood the market with Best In Slot gear.
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tyr216Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Exactly tyr216 , the 100% pvper's will actually gain access to something they dont' give a **** about , while the ones actually interested in the lore and the dungeon didn't even bother to queue .
I'm curious to know tho , will the dungeon loot be for pvp or pve ........ go figure!!
If all the T2 pve gear already drops in other dungeons , do they refer to T2 pvp gear ?
If you have to do both PvE and PvP to complete the event, it will probably drop gear for both PvE and PvP. The RNG alone will be enough to make people rage. Imagine the PvP'ers who suffered through all that PvE just to get to the end and get gear they don't want. Vice versa for the PvE'ers. Sure, it might help you in this new zone since it's a mix, but it's going to be rather worthless outside the zone.
This is a pretty controversial and historically unpopular direction they've decided to go in and I'm surprised they've committed themselves so strongly to it instead of putting the idea out there first and gauging people's reactions to it. I don't think the game is established enough for the developers to know exactly who their audience is and this decision is only going to muddy the waters.
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rapticorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,078Arc User
edited June 2013
Main thing I noticed in the trailer was the blue night mare mounts. Those look much cooler than the orange flamed ones!
It's a pretty normal reaction, for a child. There is one PvP mode played on two maps and just... how many dungeons? We don't even have a dueling system or any sort of ranking or ratings, in fact there is no purpose to PvP at all at the moment, other than getting gear that is inferior to PvE. And here we are, with a trailer showing mixed PvP and PvE content, and people crying that PvE, out of the all things in the game, is being neglected. This amount of hypocrisy is too much for me to sympathise with, I'm sorry.
Trailer looks good, content looks interesting, and you are entitled to your opinions.
But you're not entitled to be opinionated.
Calling folks children thus resorting to ad hominem for disagreeing with you, clearly shows that you are just that.
I wonder if everyone will receive a piece of loot for completing the whole event, or if you will have to roll on it. If there is a roll, I really hope it's more than one drop, since sharing one item between 20 for all that work would suck
It's a pretty normal reaction, for a child. There is one PvP mode played on two maps and just... how many dungeons? We don't even have a dueling system or any sort of ranking or ratings, in fact there is no purpose to PvP at all at the moment, other than getting gear that is inferior to PvE. And here we are, with a trailer showing mixed PvP and PvE content, and people crying that PvE, out of the all things in the game, is being neglected. This amount of hypocrisy is too much for me to sympathise with, I'm sorry.
Trailer looks good, content looks interesting, and you are entitled to your opinions.
The only hypocrite here is you m8 , i , for example did not complain about there being PvP content , actually its great that Cryptic can and should cater for both , but to force people that do not enjoy pvp to play it , is ridiculous , to prize pvper's with pve content is ridiculous , that's what people are upset about , get your facts straight , or take time to absorb what you read!!
But you're not entitled to be opinionated.
Calling folks children thus resorting to ad hominem for disagreeing with you, clearly shows that you are just that.
Getting angry over content that's being added to the game that you might not enjoy due to own preferences, despite said content being optional, is childish. It's a statement of a fact, it would be ad hominem if I labeled anyone, or even any group of people, as children, I didn't.
The only hypocrite here is you m8 , i , for example did not complain about there being PvP content , actually its great that Cryptic can and should cater for both , but to force people that do not enjoy pvp to play it , is ridiculous , to prize pvper's with pve content is ridiculous , that's what people are upset about , get your facts straight , or take time to absorb what you read!!
Show me please where and how you are forced to do Gauntlgrym?
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zombieelvisMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 9Arc User
I wonder if everyone will receive a piece of loot for completing the whole event, or if you will have to roll on it. If there is a roll, I really hope it's more than one drop, since sharing one item between 20 for all that work would suck
Imagine the rage if after all that someone ninjas.
Show me please where and how you are forced to do Gauntlgrym?
PvP'ers often complain about being forced to do PvE for their PvP gear. How is it any different? You aren't "forced" to log in at all if you want to use this "forced" argument...
Comments
Why not mix them up? I mean... it would be something different for this game that other games seem to avoid. What is wrong with a little pvp? PVP is always different, you cannot predict what other players about to do. PVPer is a great idea! Especially if you're fighting for something worth getting... access to better T2 gear.
I great part is, this allows people that are prim-pvp a place to shine/be helpful in exchange for a chance at better pve gear. I love this idea.
I agree, let them try it. I just do not understand why people people get their panties in a bunch whither they die from a boss/trash vs. being out skilled by another player. You die either way! ...
Are you aware of what a "beta" is and what "feedback" is and why it's the whole point of a beta? And that the earlier feedback is given, the easier it is to use it?
Everyone gets those coins. Haven't paid a cent, and I got them when I capped.
I suppose it's possible that by T1 and T2 they mean tier 1 and tier 2 of Gauntlgrym rewards, not referring to the established T1 and T2 for the existing dungeons. That would be confusing.
This was all from the Gauntlgyrm Event tooltips, of course, so I could easily be wrong.
Because it's forced. Both types of players more often than not have different builds and experience with PVP and PVE and want different things also. This is pretty obvious as it's been there constantly in communication and feedback in a ton of MMO games now from my experience. The pvp in this game is also considered "nearly unplayable" to most what with all the bugs, so the confidence in them being able to deliver this in a professional manner is at an all time low.
Folks aren't out and out raging against this, because all that will happen is they'll be trolled by folks who blindly defend the game or posture at defending to be more precise, and it only incites more flame. People are taking the other option methinks. Ignoring the news and getting whatever enjoyment from the game they can, while repeating the mantra "At least it's not SWTOR's F2P"
PvP is also horribly balanced, rife with cheese tactics, and where the pay-for-power this game is built on is the most impactful.
It comes down to a person's personal tastes, and I have no intention of changing yours, but it's clear that there are lot of people who dislike PvP (and some that dislike PvE). I think the number of players that are roughly equal in their interests in both are quite small in number.
SCooPThepOop
Considering that there is plenty of well geared people running in PvP, and that to be well geared you have to either do PvE or spend absurd amounts of money on the game, I think you are quite wrong. I, for one, like both.
After this news i fear the class balances that you announce , will you, like so many be destroying the game to cater for pvp whiners while you sacrafice pve builds?????
The pvp veterans will ofcourse swallow up the non pvper's who are forced to do pvp content to "GET A CHANCE" at Gauntlgrym , get serious guys , people that do not like pvp are not going to be in queues waiting for a pvp match to attempt a dungeon.
You have actually promoted pvp content , and ofcourse neglected the majority of your players who don't enjoy pvp.
Unless you are 5 years old, you should know by now that people will ALWAYS complain, no matter what you give them or what you say to them.
As has already been said -- whoever loses the pvp match will then drop. That T1 dungeon is wasted content and will rarely ever be run. Beyond that, people like me and my friends won't ever bother to join the thing in the 1stp lace since there's that pvp match in the middle, and (anecdotal number pulled out of my hindquarters) I think at least 50% of the players in any game are the same, so this content will already be limited in who accesses it by being a raid (What's the estimate? A max of 15% of players ever raid in an MMO?) will then have the already limited access to it be further limited by people who don't like pvp and thus CBA to ever do it.
Complete fail, IMO.
In the veiling of the sun we will walk in bitter rain.
But in dreams I can hear your name,
And in dreams we will meet again.
Good thing that it's just dropping T2 gear and so you don't have to go there ever, eh?
there are dates given... read the post by cryptic b4 you complain..
Exactly tyr216 , the 100% pvper's will actually gain access to something they dont' give a **** about , while the ones actually interested in the lore and the dungeon didn't even bother to queue .
I'm curious to know tho , will the dungeon loot be for pvp or pve ........ go figure!!
If all the T2 pve gear already drops in other dungeons , do they refer to T2 pvp gear ?
Unless they have already seen the rest of the content and want to experience the new content. Cryptic is releasing a big piece of content and is only catering it to a certain demographic. The excluded demographic is angered by this. It's a pretty normal reaction. Wouldn't all the PvP'ers be just as upset if they didn't get any new content instead?
I'm sure you will, chances are nothing about this design will be changed from now until release or ever even. But that doesn't mean others won't be let down by the fact it's pushing PVP onto players if they want to see the new content. I play PVP games, they're purely dedicated and designed for said PVP and it shows in those games, those that don't separate their PVP and PVE content, end up with complete "FUSTERCLUCKS" of balance. This is a short sighted naive goal which inevitably is just a BAD idea.
But some folks will enjoy any old tat thrown their way, and thanks to the lack of competition in this F2P MMO market and ridiculously low standards, it will probably retain enough players to get folks herping and a derping in it simply because there's not much better out in the genre at the moment.
It's a pretty normal reaction, for a child. There is one PvP mode played on two maps and just... how many dungeons? We don't even have a dueling system or any sort of ranking or ratings, in fact there is no purpose to PvP at all at the moment, other than getting gear that is inferior to PvE. And here we are, with a trailer showing mixed PvP and PvE content, and people crying that PvE, out of the all things in the game, is being neglected. This amount of hypocrisy is too much for me to sympathise with, I'm sorry.
Trailer looks good, content looks interesting, and you are entitled to your opinions.
If you have to do both PvE and PvP to complete the event, it will probably drop gear for both PvE and PvP. The RNG alone will be enough to make people rage. Imagine the PvP'ers who suffered through all that PvE just to get to the end and get gear they don't want. Vice versa for the PvE'ers. Sure, it might help you in this new zone since it's a mix, but it's going to be rather worthless outside the zone.
This is a pretty controversial and historically unpopular direction they've decided to go in and I'm surprised they've committed themselves so strongly to it instead of putting the idea out there first and gauging people's reactions to it. I don't think the game is established enough for the developers to know exactly who their audience is and this decision is only going to muddy the waters.
But you're not entitled to be opinionated.
Calling folks children thus resorting to ad hominem for disagreeing with you, clearly shows that you are just that.
The only hypocrite here is you m8 , i , for example did not complain about there being PvP content , actually its great that Cryptic can and should cater for both , but to force people that do not enjoy pvp to play it , is ridiculous , to prize pvper's with pve content is ridiculous , that's what people are upset about , get your facts straight , or take time to absorb what you read!!
Getting angry over content that's being added to the game that you might not enjoy due to own preferences, despite said content being optional, is childish. It's a statement of a fact, it would be ad hominem if I labeled anyone, or even any group of people, as children, I didn't.
Show me please where and how you are forced to do Gauntlgrym?
Imagine the rage if after all that someone ninjas.
@headlesshorseman
PvP'ers often complain about being forced to do PvE for their PvP gear. How is it any different? You aren't "forced" to log in at all if you want to use this "forced" argument...