Seriously. All this armor seems to be designed to give a bit of eye candy (not quite bikini armor, but some skin is showing), yet it's all hidden by ugly chain mail. We can hide helms and capes, why not shirts/pants?
been Wondering this since i reached level 60. I Mean afteri got all the gear i wanted too i noticed my shirt and trousers just doesn't fit with the rest of the gear, and i don't want to get rid of them because bonus stats from them are always good, and i want to transmute my gear soo i look <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> but shirt/trousers keep me away from looking the way i want to
Because it reinforces the male power fantasy/sexual fantasy dichotomy without offering the reverse.
It isn't sexism if it applies to both genders. I would assume the feature to toggle visibility for certain slots would not apply to only female characters.
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nvmbanelingsMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
this entire thread is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
just let people hide the shirt/pants. simple. everyone is happy.
What I see here is a lot of people who really don't understand how social and media reinforcement work. People who don't realize that making female characters into sexual objects can be harmful to female players. The most common explanation is through something called Micro-Aggression. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microaggression
Basically it's that your minor act of sexism doesn't seem harmful because you think of it as a lone event of sexism. But to the women around you it is just one example of MANY examples they will come across in their day to day life. Sure you're "Only" sexually objectifying one character in the game. But that action does not happen within a social vacuum. Other people will also be right there with you, as you can see from this thread, presenting their female characters as sexual objects, as well.
It's unfair at -best- to present female characters as sexual objects without also presenting male characters as sexual objects. And a bare chested muscle man is a -power- fantasy, not a sexual one. If things were equal, with both male and female characters being presented equally as power and sexual fantasies this wouldn't be an issue. But they aren't anywhere near to equal.
So please. Don't try to tip the scales further in catering to men for the purposes of fantasy. I'd like to play a strong female character who fights on the front lines next to her male compatriots without being bombarded with your sexual fantasies. Let me have my Power Fantasy and you can have yours.
-Rachel-
I think you got it wrong. With your perspective, the obvious solution would be to force women to wear veils and hijabs and never letting them into public unescorted by male family members. Because. Men (and women) might have dirty thoughts.
Hiding from sexuality isnt the solution. Its the problem.
It seems to me, women need to own their own bodies. It really doesnt matter what men think.
Anyway, I just want players to have more choice about their avatars appearance, whether its underwear or full-on formal wear, or something casual in between.
I would love for fellow players to create fashion items that other players could buy using Coins, Astral Diamonds, or even Zen.
I'm not bothered by shirts and pants always visible.
What is an issue for me is that shirts/pants are simply fugly and class restricted.
All are looking the same and it can't be even helped by using those from other crafting professions - I'd gladly swap look for plate shirts and pants with those from leatherworking. It would make crafting a bit more desirable.
I also think that underwear needs a bit more work. I'm happy with it not looking like a modern lingerie (and it would make no sense in this setting), but it could be at least colorable.
I see no reason for running without clothes under your armor, except maybe for few pieces of plate armors with obvious chest windows on female models, but each to their own. People are already running around with naked toons using cosmetic options.
Personally i'd love to see some diffrent styles of the pants and shirts.
Keep the current ones as they are, but add some recepeis so we can craft templates to remodel if we want to.
Like a plate/chainmail bikini for extra sexy.
Leather stockings.
Tubetops.
etc etc.
Sure who am i to say someone cant play how they want to
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lazerglovezBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Obviously, rachel is in the wrong here. I know my comments sound ignorant, but thats the cost of using trigger words to try and get rachel back here and start arguing. Not all women feel the need to shroud their faces and cover their ankles. This is about choice, not about sexism. And injecting your bias in a conversation about choice is like telling a white man hes racist for considering an african mans skin black. Pointless, melodramatic, and egotistic.
The art director had a vision for the style of the game, and the artists executed that vision. If you want to play an E rated game I heard pink princess unicorn island was great.
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dagurasuMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Every time I look at the armor I'm wearing, I think "god why can't I hide the shirt/pants?", and then I click back over to my fashion outfit and I'm content until the next time I have to switch over to my actual armor.
Please give us the option to hide the stuff, or give us different shirts/pants to use.
I also think that underwear needs a bit more work. I'm happy with it not looking like a modern lingerie (and it would make no sense in this setting), but it could be at least colorable.
Yeah, it would be nice to dye, wouldn't it? Other colors might work better in the cases where it sticks out past whatever outfit you're wearing.
THe problem with mixing fashion outfits and normal armor is that a fashion slots are gloves+shirt+neck+belt and Pants+boots
and head, so they cant really mix and match well I personally would have combined belt with the pants if I was doing that as it makes odd effects when combining different shirt/pants.
One solution is just do CO/STO costume slots for the fashion objects but that will cut down on dyepack sales also fashion packs will have to be account based. but theyd make a fortune in Tailoring fees. and extra costume slots. also since pple will be less worried about filling up bank space they will probably buy more with zen rather than selling the bits they don't use.
another option is let people convert armor bits into a fashion pack (For an astral diamond fee of course) and probably destroying said armor in the process. however they probably worry no one will buy the actual fashion packs if you can do this. but im more likely to buy a lot of dyes if I have a lot of optional outfits. again bank space will limit my willing ness to do this.
they probably are afraid if you hide shirt/pants people will run around more nekid than they already do.
also its a shame I cant wear my catterday cape with my fashion gown (show/hide cape) when in fashion mode would be cool
since fashion packs don't really have a neck/back slot.
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babizokahMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I'd like the option of hiding shirt and pants as well... some armours do look better without it, as they are already very covered.
my shirt and pants are purple and enchantment slotted..some of my CW armor is obviously made without shirts and pants in mind..make disable visuals on shirts and pants please.
my shirt and pants are purple and enchantment slotted..some of my CW armor is obviously made without shirts and pants in mind..make disable visuals on shirts and pants please.
My level 60 CW looks hilariously bad because of that. Even the peasant garb looks more appealing.
I don't often post but I just had to in this case.
I was wondering about this for a while now, why we don't get that option.
Thing is, I've already seen several players that were able to hide the shirts/pants, and yet I still can't.
(For the record I inspected them and saw that they were equipped but simply did not show on the model)
All armor except maybe the chest piece should be able to toggle on and off to display.
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avendi0Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 9Arc User
edited June 2013
Steampunky:
We get it, you feel strongly about sexism/feminism and that's fine, but you've got to let everyone give their ideas too without so much injection.
Right now, you're honestly doing more harm than good by making what's supposed to be a discussion about a game mechanic, feel more like a hostile hostage negotiation.
It's also derailing the topic.
Try to focus more on what specifically you'd like to see done in regards to game mechanics, and less on the reason behind it. In regards to the topic of this thread:
I would really like to have the option to at least hide the shirt.
I also think having different shirt and pant models would be helpful too, especially if we can't get the option to hide them.
I enjoy RP, and having plenty of customization options to make my character recognizable is important to me.
There have been thousands of forum posts about sexist armor designs in MMORPGs (largely because hey, it's a big issue), and within those thousands of posts, there have been thousands of replies of the "don't be a prude, don't censor my game, take your overly PC attitudes elsewhere" variety, and they remain the same strawman attack they've always been.
It's not a big issue. It's a manufactured issue made big, that only has legs due to the current rampant catering to political correctness. That the 'correctness' is qualified with political indicates these aren't issues of actual correctness.
No, there is not a group of stuffy old grannies that wants to take your pixel <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> away and force you to enjoy wholesome entertainment. The issue is and always has been equality. Sexed-up costumes on women should be sexed-up costumes on men. Sensible armor on men should be sensible armor on women. That's why players (men and women) get irked.
Armour isn't an equality based issue, which is why the vast majority of actual armoured combatants were men, providing actual real world models of armour for them to simulate for male characters. For the most part women didn't have the strength and stamina to wear heavy metal armours and wield melee weapons for prolonged periods of time. As such, depicting them as proficient in armoured combat is already a trip squarely down fantasy lane to begin with, with the armour designs for them equally whimsical.
When a good portion of items are designed to empower males and objectify females, that is sexism, and when the original poster is talking about "eye candy", it's quite pertinent to the discussion whether you like it or not.
In the real world age of armoured combat men were powerful because they had an abundance of the attributes needed to be powerful in that period whereas women did not, and thus were not, so they had to get along with what they did have that was appealing to the powerful. It wasn't sexism. It was reality... that thing we have largely forgotten in a world of politically correct delusion.
So why aren't we allowed to hide them? Surely its nothing to do with "modesty" in mmos. For example I don't wear the shirt and pants because they look bad with the armor, and some people just hide their armor altogether. Therefore, I can't see any logical reason why we can't hide them or why such a request needs a 21page debate about sexual inequality. Just let us hide them and be done with it.
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ausdoerrtMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
Because if you wanna look half-naked, you better lose some defense for it
Comments
been Wondering this since i reached level 60. I Mean afteri got all the gear i wanted too i noticed my shirt and trousers just doesn't fit with the rest of the gear, and i don't want to get rid of them because bonus stats from them are always good, and i want to transmute my gear soo i look <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> but shirt/trousers keep me away from looking the way i want to
just let people hide the shirt/pants. simple. everyone is happy.
...
right?
no, the sight of a bare female stomach drives me into an uncontrollable rage
Yes, it's not like the lady in the cinematic trailer had half her breast hanging out for no reason.
I think you got it wrong. With your perspective, the obvious solution would be to force women to wear veils and hijabs and never letting them into public unescorted by male family members. Because. Men (and women) might have dirty thoughts.
Hiding from sexuality isnt the solution. Its the problem.
It seems to me, women need to own their own bodies. It really doesnt matter what men think.
I would love for fellow players to create fashion items that other players could buy using Coins, Astral Diamonds, or even Zen.
What is an issue for me is that shirts/pants are simply fugly and class restricted.
All are looking the same and it can't be even helped by using those from other crafting professions - I'd gladly swap look for plate shirts and pants with those from leatherworking. It would make crafting a bit more desirable.
I also think that underwear needs a bit more work. I'm happy with it not looking like a modern lingerie (and it would make no sense in this setting), but it could be at least colorable.
I see no reason for running without clothes under your armor, except maybe for few pieces of plate armors with obvious chest windows on female models, but each to their own. People are already running around with naked toons using cosmetic options.
Keep the current ones as they are, but add some recepeis so we can craft templates to remodel if we want to.
Like a plate/chainmail bikini for extra sexy.
Leather stockings.
Tubetops.
etc etc.
The art director had a vision for the style of the game, and the artists executed that vision. If you want to play an E rated game I heard pink princess unicorn island was great.
Please give us the option to hide the stuff, or give us different shirts/pants to use.
I approve of this post.
Yeah, it would be nice to dye, wouldn't it? Other colors might work better in the cases where it sticks out past whatever outfit you're wearing.
and head, so they cant really mix and match well I personally would have combined belt with the pants if I was doing that as it makes odd effects when combining different shirt/pants.
One solution is just do CO/STO costume slots for the fashion objects but that will cut down on dyepack sales also fashion packs will have to be account based. but theyd make a fortune in Tailoring fees. and extra costume slots. also since pple will be less worried about filling up bank space they will probably buy more with zen rather than selling the bits they don't use.
another option is let people convert armor bits into a fashion pack (For an astral diamond fee of course) and probably destroying said armor in the process. however they probably worry no one will buy the actual fashion packs if you can do this. but im more likely to buy a lot of dyes if I have a lot of optional outfits. again bank space will limit my willing ness to do this.
they probably are afraid if you hide shirt/pants people will run around more nekid than they already do.
also its a shame I cant wear my catterday cape with my fashion gown (show/hide cape) when in fashion mode would be cool
since fashion packs don't really have a neck/back slot.
My level 60 CW looks hilariously bad because of that. Even the peasant garb looks more appealing.
I was wondering about this for a while now, why we don't get that option.
Thing is, I've already seen several players that were able to hide the shirts/pants, and yet I still can't.
(For the record I inspected them and saw that they were equipped but simply did not show on the model)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTGh0EMmMC8
Enjoy
We get it, you feel strongly about sexism/feminism and that's fine, but you've got to let everyone give their ideas too without so much injection.
Right now, you're honestly doing more harm than good by making what's supposed to be a discussion about a game mechanic, feel more like a hostile hostage negotiation.
It's also derailing the topic.
Try to focus more on what specifically you'd like to see done in regards to game mechanics, and less on the reason behind it.
In regards to the topic of this thread:
I would really like to have the option to at least hide the shirt.
I also think having different shirt and pant models would be helpful too, especially if we can't get the option to hide them.
I enjoy RP, and having plenty of customization options to make my character recognizable is important to me.
Armour isn't an equality based issue, which is why the vast majority of actual armoured combatants were men, providing actual real world models of armour for them to simulate for male characters. For the most part women didn't have the strength and stamina to wear heavy metal armours and wield melee weapons for prolonged periods of time. As such, depicting them as proficient in armoured combat is already a trip squarely down fantasy lane to begin with, with the armour designs for them equally whimsical.
In the real world age of armoured combat men were powerful because they had an abundance of the attributes needed to be powerful in that period whereas women did not, and thus were not, so they had to get along with what they did have that was appealing to the powerful. It wasn't sexism. It was reality... that thing we have largely forgotten in a world of politically correct delusion.