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Alternate aprouch to current daily's. Please review and give opinions.
itheryel
Member Posts: 335 Bounty Hunter
Dungeon delves :
This is a very troublesome subject to begin with, but let's do it anywayz
, first off the positives?
Aditional reward incentive = Aswome
This pretty much concludes the positives about it, aldo significant, do they outway the negatives acompanied by this?
Negatives :
Forces players to do dungeons in a specific timeframe to be effective at farming, the other way around, doing dungeons when it is not DD time feels unrewarding.
Forces elitist group forming, what i mean by this, because it is a limited timeframe it forces people to maximize on group utility and not group fun, this includes effect's like the 2DC/2CW/1TR combo comming in existence.
Forces people to exploit durring this period to gain maximum loot achievable.(obviuesly, this is an independent choice, however it is influenced by the DD period)
Because of its highly beneficial positive effect, not a lot of DD events can be added during one day, for logical economic reasons and player progresion, this also translates in a lot of players being unable to do the DD events, because of personal mathers, and external factors, resulting in a "let down" effect for those players.
Conclusion : I feel DD has more bad effect's then positive ones to the gaming community, and as such should be reviewed entirely for the purpose of creating a more fun experience without ditracting from the positive it initialy offered.
Solutions to the problem :
Yes i AM gonna attempt this :d. Flame away, opinions are apreciated but please formulate them in a constructive manner. Thx in advance.
DD should be removed completely. Yes i said it, and u read that correct. But there is a kicker
It should also be implemented all day long, in a different form.
What i imagine is something like this, and please stick with me here this is the cool part of this thread o.O
Imagine a 2hour DD event running, but all that it wil do is add a "bonus quest" upon entering the dungeon, when the 2 hours end, another DD event starts running with another "bonus quest" atached to it. Depending on the "bonus quest" u get an alternate chest that wil appear at the end of the dungeon.
Some examples of conditions and "bonus quest" :
Dungeon delves event Hero's of neverwinter :
Condition : finish the dungeon with 5 different characters
Reward : same as the current DD gives, a bonus item for ure specific characters
underlieing incentive : creates build diversity and apreciation for all the different classes in the game, and allows for a condition where all are needed.
Dungeon delves event dungeon master :
Condition : finish the dungeon and have 95% of the mobs cleared (throwing mobs of cliffs does not count towards this %)
Reward : a chest that opens with a lvl 6/7 random enchantment (can include EPIC enchantments to boost the incentive for playing this, the rewards wil be fundemental in the succes of this implementation) and some crafting resources (again depending on the incentive needed, these could be substantial)
underlieing incentive : creates a need to clear entire dungeons and scout otherwise rushed area's, and gives killing trash mobs a purpose rather then a dull unrewarding task, adds new perspective to clearing a dungeon and enchances fun gameplay
Dungeon delves event imortal defenders :
Condition : Finish the dungeon with no deads across the team (this could be altured to 2/3/4 deads across the team to compensate higher lvl epic dungeons, like X dungeon = 2 deads count max / dungeon X = 4 dead max count) otherwise only the easy dungeons will fall into this category and that's the last i would want to achieve.
Reward : A fixed high amount of Rough astrail diamonds, an alternate reward i was thinking about would be a token that removes an enchantment for free. But this token doesnt exist, however it would create the need to run this with succes the moment somebody in a guild wishes to remove an enchantment etc....and run it with succes.
Alternate rewards vs the difficulty of this task could be sugested (fire away im all ears)
underlieing incentive : creates a true sense of hardcore gaming, being on ure edge compared to the other conditions already presented. Also forces a great amount of team effort onto the party since everybody's dead is counted towards the final dead count (no mindles zerging and letting people die 2 feet in front of u instead of ressing) wich should result into more awarenes towards other players. And a more friendly playerbase overall.
dungeon delves event a fools dungeon :
Condition : finish the dungeon with all party members having a fixed gearscore (like -1000 GS then the dungeon is listed, adding difficulty to the challenge)
Reward : 20 gold some potions AND 3random buffs to ure character for 1 hour and 2 fixed buffs to ure character for 2 hours.
Buff 1 : 50% more Rough astral diamond gain
Buff 2 : 100% gold increase
This might seem a lot, ore not i dont know to me it did , but the thing to note from this concept is that every reward should be in line with the difficulty AND the other event's, to not create a system like the current DD where only one event seems apropriate for completion and all others feel unrewarding compared to that one.
underlieing incentive : Again promotes difficulty/creativity and teamwork
Next topic / foundry daily's reward system / V1.01
Simply put, il try to keep it short since my initial DD post is sort of long o.O, Make every 15 minutes of a foundry quest complete 1/4 of ure daily. Obviuesly since Cryptic intented for 15 min to be an achievement i see no reason why they would not allow a foundry quest of 45 min to grant 3x that achievement giving u 3/4 completed on daily.
V1.01 additions to this thought :
Ive been walking my dogs, and was thinking about afk exploitation of my implementation. So to cut that thought of the concept entirely i have found some aditions to obliterate the idee of afk farming foundry's with my sugested concept.
A timer should be implemented for my concept to work, registering the time u spend inside a foundry quest, the foundry creator can choose the max timer limit for his quest, ranking from 15min(1 daily reward) to a maximum of 60min(4 daily rewards) the timer can not be set higher then 60min, even if the quest would take longer.
Afk booting timer inside foundry's is reduced to 3 minutes when playing a foundry alone.
sidenote : when pressing ESC, ure foundry quest is pauzed when playing solo and so is the timer, u can only pauze inside foundry instances (for obviues reasons) when playing with a group the afk timer is aplied to everybody, meaning if one party member is moving it wont kick into effect for anybody else.
Being booted wil end ure timer and reset it. (note being disconnected is not noted by the servers so should not interupt the timer but keep it at disconnect time, however being booted is a server side decision and should be able to delete the timer completely)
Since foundry is a player to player concept, things like this should be implemented to remove exploitation, on both sides both foundry creator and player. It should become a self-regulating service to achieve max performance in the current content.
Like pointed out by ambisinisterr, the foundry already has an automated adjustement of time completion build in, wich will also greatly favor the non-exploitation of foundry.(thx for reminding me)
Also beneficial is all the foundry creators jumping around in excitement if this was implemented. Enabling the longer quest's to be adventured in, instead of feeling like a bad decision (min - max issue).
Final topic / skirmishes /
This is one of the best balanced event's by far i think, i simply love this event and when it happens i always try to do a few of them. However one issue i would like to say about this one.
Give lvl 60 hero's ALL previues skirmishes to choose from and scale them to lvl 60 like foundry qyest's do.
Smashing lvl 60 ogre's? OMFG YES PLEASE?????
I think this could be easily implemented, and i hope it is comming, it would make lvl 60 a lot more enjoyable and ADD like 40% more content to lvl 60 at the current state of the game.
That's all i got atm, give me ure honest opinions, and tell me if i am an idiot ore on the right pad.
(specialy about the DD style i came up with)
Thx in advance
-Itheryel-
This is a very troublesome subject to begin with, but let's do it anywayz
, first off the positives?Aditional reward incentive = Aswome
This pretty much concludes the positives about it, aldo significant, do they outway the negatives acompanied by this?
Negatives :
Forces players to do dungeons in a specific timeframe to be effective at farming, the other way around, doing dungeons when it is not DD time feels unrewarding.
Forces elitist group forming, what i mean by this, because it is a limited timeframe it forces people to maximize on group utility and not group fun, this includes effect's like the 2DC/2CW/1TR combo comming in existence.
Forces people to exploit durring this period to gain maximum loot achievable.(obviuesly, this is an independent choice, however it is influenced by the DD period)
Because of its highly beneficial positive effect, not a lot of DD events can be added during one day, for logical economic reasons and player progresion, this also translates in a lot of players being unable to do the DD events, because of personal mathers, and external factors, resulting in a "let down" effect for those players.
Conclusion : I feel DD has more bad effect's then positive ones to the gaming community, and as such should be reviewed entirely for the purpose of creating a more fun experience without ditracting from the positive it initialy offered.
Solutions to the problem :
Yes i AM gonna attempt this :d. Flame away, opinions are apreciated but please formulate them in a constructive manner. Thx in advance.
DD should be removed completely. Yes i said it, and u read that correct. But there is a kicker
It should also be implemented all day long, in a different form.
What i imagine is something like this, and please stick with me here this is the cool part of this thread o.O
Imagine a 2hour DD event running, but all that it wil do is add a "bonus quest" upon entering the dungeon, when the 2 hours end, another DD event starts running with another "bonus quest" atached to it. Depending on the "bonus quest" u get an alternate chest that wil appear at the end of the dungeon.
Some examples of conditions and "bonus quest" :
Dungeon delves event Hero's of neverwinter :
Condition : finish the dungeon with 5 different characters
Reward : same as the current DD gives, a bonus item for ure specific characters
underlieing incentive : creates build diversity and apreciation for all the different classes in the game, and allows for a condition where all are needed.
Dungeon delves event dungeon master :
Condition : finish the dungeon and have 95% of the mobs cleared (throwing mobs of cliffs does not count towards this %)
Reward : a chest that opens with a lvl 6/7 random enchantment (can include EPIC enchantments to boost the incentive for playing this, the rewards wil be fundemental in the succes of this implementation) and some crafting resources (again depending on the incentive needed, these could be substantial)
underlieing incentive : creates a need to clear entire dungeons and scout otherwise rushed area's, and gives killing trash mobs a purpose rather then a dull unrewarding task, adds new perspective to clearing a dungeon and enchances fun gameplay
Dungeon delves event imortal defenders :
Condition : Finish the dungeon with no deads across the team (this could be altured to 2/3/4 deads across the team to compensate higher lvl epic dungeons, like X dungeon = 2 deads count max / dungeon X = 4 dead max count) otherwise only the easy dungeons will fall into this category and that's the last i would want to achieve.
Reward : A fixed high amount of Rough astrail diamonds, an alternate reward i was thinking about would be a token that removes an enchantment for free. But this token doesnt exist, however it would create the need to run this with succes the moment somebody in a guild wishes to remove an enchantment etc....and run it with succes.
Alternate rewards vs the difficulty of this task could be sugested (fire away im all ears)
underlieing incentive : creates a true sense of hardcore gaming, being on ure edge compared to the other conditions already presented. Also forces a great amount of team effort onto the party since everybody's dead is counted towards the final dead count (no mindles zerging and letting people die 2 feet in front of u instead of ressing) wich should result into more awarenes towards other players. And a more friendly playerbase overall.
dungeon delves event a fools dungeon :
Condition : finish the dungeon with all party members having a fixed gearscore (like -1000 GS then the dungeon is listed, adding difficulty to the challenge)
Reward : 20 gold some potions AND 3random buffs to ure character for 1 hour and 2 fixed buffs to ure character for 2 hours.
Buff 1 : 50% more Rough astral diamond gain
Buff 2 : 100% gold increase
This might seem a lot, ore not i dont know to me it did
, but the thing to note from this concept is that every reward should be in line with the difficulty AND the other event's, to not create a system like the current DD where only one event seems apropriate for completion and all others feel unrewarding compared to that one.underlieing incentive : Again promotes difficulty/creativity and teamwork
Next topic / foundry daily's reward system / V1.01
Simply put, il try to keep it short since my initial DD post is sort of long o.O, Make every 15 minutes of a foundry quest complete 1/4 of ure daily. Obviuesly since Cryptic intented for 15 min to be an achievement i see no reason why they would not allow a foundry quest of 45 min to grant 3x that achievement giving u 3/4 completed on daily.
V1.01 additions to this thought :
Ive been walking my dogs, and was thinking about afk exploitation of my implementation. So to cut that thought of the concept entirely i have found some aditions to obliterate the idee of afk farming foundry's with my sugested concept.
A timer should be implemented for my concept to work, registering the time u spend inside a foundry quest, the foundry creator can choose the max timer limit for his quest, ranking from 15min(1 daily reward) to a maximum of 60min(4 daily rewards) the timer can not be set higher then 60min, even if the quest would take longer.
Afk booting timer inside foundry's is reduced to 3 minutes when playing a foundry alone.
sidenote : when pressing ESC, ure foundry quest is pauzed when playing solo and so is the timer, u can only pauze inside foundry instances (for obviues reasons) when playing with a group the afk timer is aplied to everybody, meaning if one party member is moving it wont kick into effect for anybody else.
Being booted wil end ure timer and reset it. (note being disconnected is not noted by the servers so should not interupt the timer but keep it at disconnect time, however being booted is a server side decision and should be able to delete the timer completely)
Since foundry is a player to player concept, things like this should be implemented to remove exploitation, on both sides both foundry creator and player. It should become a self-regulating service to achieve max performance in the current content.
Like pointed out by ambisinisterr, the foundry already has an automated adjustement of time completion build in, wich will also greatly favor the non-exploitation of foundry.(thx for reminding me)
Also beneficial is all the foundry creators jumping around in excitement if this was implemented. Enabling the longer quest's to be adventured in, instead of feeling like a bad decision (min - max issue).
Final topic / skirmishes /
This is one of the best balanced event's by far i think, i simply love this event and when it happens i always try to do a few of them. However one issue i would like to say about this one.
Give lvl 60 hero's ALL previues skirmishes to choose from and scale them to lvl 60 like foundry qyest's do.
Smashing lvl 60 ogre's? OMFG YES PLEASE?????
I think this could be easily implemented, and i hope it is comming, it would make lvl 60 a lot more enjoyable and ADD like 40% more content to lvl 60 at the current state of the game.
That's all i got atm, give me ure honest opinions, and tell me if i am an idiot ore on the right pad.
(specialy about the DD style i came up with)
Thx in advance
-Itheryel-
Petram Sacram - I am no devine cleric, i am a Gaurdian fighter in disguise with better threat and supportive spells -
Post edited by itheryel on
0
Comments
BUT
This isn't/shouldn't be related to DD bonus, and I don't think it's a good solution. I also disagree with everyone who thinks DD forces anyone to do anything. I wouldn't mind if they just removed DD altogether, forever, just to stop the whining on the forums
Skirmishes idea I can get behind, and I hope that this'll be there in the near future. In fact, just add instance entrances to them and be done with it, even easier this way.
Foundry and Dailies - my give-a-****'o'meter is at around 0 here, I'll play any quest I find interesting/worthwhile, and usually purposefully target the longer quests. I'd love to see them give Foundry authors more freedom so that the quests are more rewarding in themselves, but I don't wanna see the Foundry be turned into a farming tool.
I totaly understand ure view on this, but the thing is that since there is AD gain atached to it, it makes a lot of people uninterested in the longer quest's, and this is bad busines for foundry creators, my sugestion would simply open up the longer quest's for AD gain, and therefore increase the content of endgame.
U are like a diamond in a dozen because not a lot of people wil just play foundry's for the fun element of them :')
(obviuesly foundry makers should be given the tools to make dungeons/skirmishes with a reward that compensates the difficulty
The thing about DD is, there are a limited of DD events durring a day, and for me personaly i couldent care less about them, but the people that do care and have a job/family rarely have the option to do them because of time. It's for them i am basicly preposing this alternate DD style, it would keep the old style intact and give the not so fortunate people that dont have loads of playtime also an option to do them. Atm tons of people are only logging in for DD events, with my system they might be tempted to join the game whenever they feel like it and have something to aim for (a mini goal durring that time fraim when they are online)
But thx for the feedback sir, much apreciated. Obviuesly these are just the best sugestions i could come up with, they could use improvements no doubt ore even aditions.
Lumping Foundry Content together as equal daily reward for each completion without considering the play time doesn't make sense in my opinion. Rewarding people for completing 4 foundry missions a day simply encourages people to complete four 15 minutes quests as fast as possible.
We've seen a number of great content pieces rushed through to no end reducing rewards to the point that the content has actually been disqualified from rewards. I am Slayer is one of those great missions which had a 30-45 minute play time when played through as the author intended but actually was used as a daily farm by players in order to complete the foundry daily reward.
Perhaps it would be better to change the foundry dailies from "one mission" to being 15 minutes, 30 minutes, 45 minutes, 60 minutes of Foundry Content time. The number would be based on the "average" play-time of content so it would, in theory, reduce the number of players rushing through content to simply count towards the daily reward.
Right now the longer content is really under incentivised. There are people like ausdoerrt and myself who will do foundry missions purely for the joy but the current system is truly a bit counter-active against those trying to create truly in depth content and those who would like to enjoy foundry content but don't wish to lose out on the daily rewards which really do encourage quick runs.
EDIT: Yeah, what Ambisinisterr said...
They do. The problem is, as you and I agree, that due to the requirement to complete "a foundry mission" rather than get rewarded for the time put into it many people are simply choosing the shortest quests and rushing through them.
Longer quests do give better rewards. I did one of chili's longer quests the other day and actually got two blue resource drops, numerous green resources, a dozen or so rank 4 enchantments and quite a bit of gold. The daily reward system doesn't encourage people to try out these longer and more rewarding content.
Well, it's not that I would mind it, just don't think it's the priority or the top way to increase Foundry rewards. Though it might be the least exploitable one, I'll give you that.
Thing about farmers, they'll still find the most max-minned way to do their thing and run it over and over. Sad as it is.
Thing is, I don't feel like dungeons are unrewarding without the event, at least so far. The fact that there's a population spike during the event shows that it works as a concept. Once again, farmers/maximinners will run only when the reward is optimal regardless of what you do. For the casual player, I still think this is better than, say, raid/dungeon timers.
What I'm trying to say is, I'd love to see these and similar ideas implemented in addition to, not in lieu of the existing system.
If the time was attatched to the average play time they will, in time, simply hurt themselves. Anything they rush will eventually become less rewarding in time requiring them to complete more of those dungeons.
What it would more commonly do is put a more balanced approach to playing Foundry Content. Rather than looking for a specific type of mission to do in 15 minutes or less they would look for any mission and attempt to do that. Overall it would spread the imbalanced rushing across all available content which should keep more content more rewarding.
Also players who are otherwise not keen on the idea of doing four short 15 minute content will have a wider selection of content available to them. Currently even more casual players such as bobold are incentitised to do four shorter pieces of content as fast as possible rather play on their own schedule.
People who rush will continue to do so but a system which would lower the amount of incentivation to rush would help the Foundry Content immensely.
I agree with this btw, but the catcher to this is that everybody becomes a farmer once they are in need of a certain item. This doesnt mean they are max-min farmers doing it non-stop. It's more of an occurance, player A needs item B, but does not have X amount of AD, so obviuesly he wil consider his best farming options to gain X amount of AD over the next period of his playtime. This however does not make him a farmer per se. Just a regular playing in need of his next upgrade
So im basicly trying to implement ways so the basic player/farmer can enjoy his farmtime optimaly instead of feeling at a disadvantage to the min-max farmers, enchancing his gameplay experience. The same with my foundry sugestion, it is about enchancing player experience(and aditionaly allowing more options for foundry designers, since i dont believe they get a lot of reviews from long quest's atm)
But i do understand ure vision/point on this, my point would be that it is not black ore white, grey also tends to happen and should be considered.
@ ambi, i give u the right to smack me in the face with a chair sir, i totaly forgot about the automated adjustement of time of completion in my idee, thx for reminding me (i feel like an idiot somewhat now