zdrahonulMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 27Arc User
edited June 2013
I think the dyes should have the same mechanic as seen for Camouflages in World of Tanks. There, you can buy either permanent camouflages for real cash (converted to in-game cash) or temporary camouflages (7 days, 30 days) for in-game freely-produced currency (equivalent to gold, silver, copper in NW). Problem solved.
I have to agree, the pricing and strategy just don't work very well, at least for me.
I'm usually a pretty heavy player, more interested in stats and mechanics than appearance. Appearance DOES matter to a guy like me, though. In fact, it matters a great deal. There is a good reason that I've never successfully leveled a female character in any game(yeah, they look great, but they aren't me:P). I also strongly tend toward dwarves and monster-ish races. Never elves or halflings. Try as I may, I like the gameplay but cannot level the foppish wizard in this game due to his appearance. I may not be chasing pretty, but I've got a very set idea of the look I want to deliver all those stats and mechanics with.
In this game, when I hit 60, I did a couple of things. I bought a dye pack, and I changed my horrible sword into the Deurgar Hammer. The cost is exorbitant---I spent more on this than I did the gear, literally. I then proceeded to replace all of the gear except the weapon.
Two weeks later, I'm still stung with the cost and have not dyed my rather atrocious looking armor. Further, I'm not 100% sure I'll keep this set either, so I'm extremely wary about dying it.
This has a trickle down effect. Sure, I still play, but I'm extremely gunshy about anything that might be considered "temporary" that has a real cost attached. I would even venture to say that the dye experience has left me wary of considering more permanent items(I'd like a bear or wolf mount, but I've already got a fast horse).
A permanent palette, even if the colors require an initial purchase, seems like a great idea. Would it really be THAT outlandish to buy an unlimited use of a color for 200 zen, rather than a single use? I mean, spending two bucks to have unlimited access to the color red doesn't exactly seem like a bargain---but compared to the current system, it's a steal.
PW operates 30 games; PWE operates 12. They know exactly what people will pay for one-shot dyes. Dyes are selling like hotcakes in their games; this one's going to be no different.
I have a guildmate who buys dyes in the Zen store and sells them for AD. He makes a ton more AD per sale than the equivalent directly Zen/AD trade would earn. People want dyes and are willing to pay either money or time.
the dyes are pretty lame for the price, would be good to have decent ones in the zen shop and not just more of the same bland colours. i haven't spent a pound on this game but still manage to easily farm zen and i just use the bars from lockboxes to get the nightmare dye, it's the only good looking dye set that properly covers your armour and i will probably get more of it if i ever get more gear i only need tier 1 as a GF so i'm done i look sexy too.
PW operates 30 games; PWE operates 12. They know exactly what people will pay for one-shot dyes. Dyes are selling like hotcakes in their games; this one's going to be no different.
I have a guildmate who buys dyes in the Zen store and sells them for AD. He makes a ton more AD per sale than the equivalent directly Zen/AD trade would earn. People want dyes and are willing to pay either money or time.
Keep toeing that company line. Sure they appreciate it.
A rich rogue nowadays is fit company for any gentleman; and the world, my dear, hath not such a contempt for roguery as you imagine. - John HAMSTER
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elawynMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
psiwuffMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
I agree. Dyes are absolutely useless in this game, and if you dye anything but your final, BiS piece you wont ever replace, you are essentially wasting dyes. Add to it the fact that the dye bottles are random lockbox casino rolls, and you are expected to waste a ton of money or AD on dying your armor.
So for a game that technically should be about roleplay and customization, it sure does a great job of preventing anyone from looking different unless they invest a ton of resources.
Like it was said before, GW2 had it down perfectly, no arguments there. This is why I've started playing that again and barely touch NWO anymore. Pretty much only going to get to 60 to be done with it, and then probably drop game.
Add to it the fact that the dye bottles are random lockbox casino rolls
....er, what?
The only random dyes are those free "starter" ones you get. All the ones you get from the zen store are either specific colors (4x <color>) or are pre-defined dye packs. And then there's the dye packs from the Trade Bar and Ardent Coin shops, which are also pre-defined. (i.e, they put a specific set of three colors on the armor piece you use them on)
I agree with the OP. If there's one thing Cryptic is known for, it's character customization in their games. That made me expect much better customization options in NW that what we ended up with. Also, the ability to mix dyes would be nice.
Err... "bland" is the one thing that color combination definitely can't be called. And, are those red blotches a bug or something? I've seen them in a couple of other people's screenshots too. Or do you get that from armor enchantments? If you do, I'm glad to save AD by not having to enchant mine. Sorry to be blunt, but you kind of walked into this.
Are you meaning the ability to combine two colors to produce a third, or the ability to use different colors on different parts of the same piece of gear? The latter is already in there, the former would produce eye-searing monstrosities.
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elawynMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Err... "bland" is the one thing that color combination definitely can't be called. And, are those red blotches a bug or something? I've seen them in a couple of other people's screenshots too. Or do you get that from armor enchantments? If you do, I'm glad to save AD by not having to enchant mine. Sorry to be blunt, but you kind of walked into this.
The blotches are actually an animated 'smoke trail' effect on that particular armor skin. A static screenshot doesn't show it, although to my eyes they look like spatters of blood. Has nothing to do with enchantments.
Are you meaning the ability to combine two colors to produce a third, or the ability to use different colors on different parts of the same piece of gear? The latter is already in there, the former would produce eye-searing monstrosities.
The former. We already have eye-searing monstrosities in the game. You can already do pink+green(*shudder*), red+green, purple+green, pink+blue etc. with the existing colors. Mixing you own shades would actually make it possible to make less clashing color combinations.
The blotches are actually an animated 'smoke trail' effect on that particular armor skin. A static screenshot doesn't show it, although to my eyes they look like spatters of blood. Has nothing to do with enchantments.
Oh? That's strange. I've never seen it ingame even though I run the game on almost maxed settings. I guess I need to pay more attention.
Your point is valid. However, I think overpricing on cosmetics does infact, adversely effect their revenue stream. I think more attractive pricing would lend itself to more consumption.
This this this this this. I'm a big spender when it comes to Free to play microtransactions, but the pricing on this game has me spending less money than most of the SOE titles I've dumped 1000's into. It's just....the prices on things are insane, Dyes and Coal wards in particular. I would add astral diamonds to this but the prices on the AH are going to continue to drop and drop while AD will stabilize at some point.
GW2 dye system is laughing at Cryptic lol dye system.
Actually ArenaNet's FTP model is laughing at PWE.
Seriously, it is SOOO much better, if they had a healing class there (not a psuedo half*ssed ~kinda functions as a healer a little bit spec for elementalist) I would STILL be there. These games for me are all about healing. DPS classes bore me to death.
I'm one of the few who have used dyes since lower levels. My rogue looked cool in his Bloodscar armour dyed with the Winterwolf pack.
*images
yup dyes are actually pretty cool, shame they are not cheap
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greenizdabestMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 4Arc User
edited June 2013
I recognize the need for a continuous revenue stream, but dye prices are simultaneously too expensive and also out of whack.
Example - 4 black dyes are 500z. 4 black dyes can dye 4 parts of armor, each piece of armor having 3 fields to dye. Dye Packs range 350-500z for 4 packs, and dye all sections of one piece of armor... making them stretch 4 times as far as a black dye pack.
Proposal? Slash prices on single dyes. Obviously black is more popular, so make Black Dyes cost 100z for 4, and the others 75z for a set of 4. Keep dye packs at current. Lower prices will encourage more sales.
Ah, but remember - the dye packs give you no option. They will set specific colors for primary/secondary/trim. Which means the individual colors are much more flexible.
(I'd been looking forward to spending lots of Ardent coins on that one dye pack, until I discovered that they were set combos, not three bottles in a box. Haven't bothered looking at a dye pack since.)
GW2 is the rarity in this case. GW1 dyes were single use, as are most mmo's. If they last forever, eventually no one will buy them, except new players.
That is completely false. The way it worked having SO MANY dyes and the fact the cash shop sold packs which gave you random ones, tons and tons of people spent money on them. I myself was one of the dye addicts and had at least 400 dyes on each of my 5 alts.. Some were looted, cheaper ones were bought with coin off the auction house, and many I bought from the cash shop.
The problem with this game is there are not near enough dyes, and they are WAY too expensive.
Even though, I still bought some dyes for my toon.. But in THIS game, its going to be a one or two time purchase. It's simply too expensive and not enough choice.
I am happy with the current system. Dyes are complete fluff and thus a great place to make money. No one's gaming is hurt by not having dyes so those that want them can feel free to contribute to the game's long term success by paying for them with real money. People in MMORPG's always talk about wanting to be "special" and usually this means they want certain gear to be rare and hard to obtain. The trouble with that is that gear is made to be extremely important in most MMORPG's and so making gear rare and hard to obtain makes a lot of players miss out. Dye is a great way to make people feel special without giving them more power. Thus, I would much rather dye be so expensive that most people would not bother than have gear be so rare that most people don't bother.
I have not seen a single player in-game with dyed armor since I started on the 27th, and I've played a lot.
^ Its very rare to see anyone really using dye because its expensive and difficult to obtain. There's no point using it until you get into your end game gear that you know you'll wear a while. Having a dye system is completely pointless if nobody can or wants to use it.
As a result, everyone's characters just blend together into a amorphous grey blob. There's so little characte customization in game that its a pretty HAMSTER move to have such a high barrier to entry on the one visual customization option we have.
Spent around 15 euro on dyes so far. I like the game and felt like supporting a bit more, so why not. High prized dyes are ok IMO, keeps them less common.
Hmm... That's actually more than I've spent on real clothes this year... Oh well.
Spent around 15 euro on dyes so far. I like the game and felt like supporting a bit more, so why not. High prized dyes are ok IMO, keeps them less common.
Its fine for the rarer dyes to be expensive cash shop items or rare drops. But there should be a ready set of basic colours available in game from vendors for gold. Especially in a game with this little customization out of the gate.
There isn't even pre-dyed armour drops. Even that would help immensely. Neverwinter needs to take a page from GW2, or Warhammer or even DaoC in regards to dye. Common colours should be readily available. Rarer colours you can do whatever you want with. Make them cash shop items or rare drops or whatever.
Black dye in DaoC cost a fortune, but at least you could go to a vendor and buy basic greens, blues, browns, reds, oranges, yellows, etc.
That is true, but they should have given their business model more thought. Leave it free to play, but allow people to buy certain "packs" that would simulate the sale of boxes. For example: $60 for 6 character slots and misc. perks like re-usable dyes, being able to respec for gold instead of zen, permanent discounts for certain zen items, that sort of thing. I think the way they chose to do it is very sloppy.
If they did this I might consider buying more stuff.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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floordanMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 20Arc User
edited June 2013
I think it should be that when you purchase a dye (which costs a minimum of $5 rl), it should not be 'consumable'. it should go into a dye category of your inventory, and is available to all of your characters, even new ones. And can be used to dye anything bound to your character FOREVER. It's an mmo ---->RPG<---- and many people like to spend time making their character look how they want.
I mean, planetside 2 did the cosmetics system 1000 times better than neverwinter, and it's an mmo fps for christ sakes. In that, you buy an armour skin, and it's yours forever on all of your characters and you can chop and change whenever you want. And the prices for said skins never exceeded $5, I mean it is just a texture for crying out loud.
Comments
I'm usually a pretty heavy player, more interested in stats and mechanics than appearance. Appearance DOES matter to a guy like me, though. In fact, it matters a great deal. There is a good reason that I've never successfully leveled a female character in any game(yeah, they look great, but they aren't me:P). I also strongly tend toward dwarves and monster-ish races. Never elves or halflings. Try as I may, I like the gameplay but cannot level the foppish wizard in this game due to his appearance. I may not be chasing pretty, but I've got a very set idea of the look I want to deliver all those stats and mechanics with.
In this game, when I hit 60, I did a couple of things. I bought a dye pack, and I changed my horrible sword into the Deurgar Hammer. The cost is exorbitant---I spent more on this than I did the gear, literally. I then proceeded to replace all of the gear except the weapon.
Two weeks later, I'm still stung with the cost and have not dyed my rather atrocious looking armor. Further, I'm not 100% sure I'll keep this set either, so I'm extremely wary about dying it.
This has a trickle down effect. Sure, I still play, but I'm extremely gunshy about anything that might be considered "temporary" that has a real cost attached. I would even venture to say that the dye experience has left me wary of considering more permanent items(I'd like a bear or wolf mount, but I've already got a fast horse).
A permanent palette, even if the colors require an initial purchase, seems like a great idea. Would it really be THAT outlandish to buy an unlimited use of a color for 200 zen, rather than a single use? I mean, spending two bucks to have unlimited access to the color red doesn't exactly seem like a bargain---but compared to the current system, it's a steal.
I have a guildmate who buys dyes in the Zen store and sells them for AD. He makes a ton more AD per sale than the equivalent directly Zen/AD trade would earn. People want dyes and are willing to pay either money or time.
Keep toeing that company line. Sure they appreciate it.
Bland?
I do not think that word means what you think it means!
Does *this* look 'bland?
So for a game that technically should be about roleplay and customization, it sure does a great job of preventing anyone from looking different unless they invest a ton of resources.
Like it was said before, GW2 had it down perfectly, no arguments there. This is why I've started playing that again and barely touch NWO anymore. Pretty much only going to get to 60 to be done with it, and then probably drop game.
....er, what?
The only random dyes are those free "starter" ones you get. All the ones you get from the zen store are either specific colors (4x <color>) or are pre-defined dye packs. And then there's the dye packs from the Trade Bar and Ardent Coin shops, which are also pre-defined. (i.e, they put a specific set of three colors on the armor piece you use them on)
Err... "bland" is the one thing that color combination definitely can't be called. And, are those red blotches a bug or something? I've seen them in a couple of other people's screenshots too. Or do you get that from armor enchantments? If you do, I'm glad to save AD by not having to enchant mine. Sorry to be blunt, but you kind of walked into this.
Are you meaning the ability to combine two colors to produce a third, or the ability to use different colors on different parts of the same piece of gear? The latter is already in there, the former would produce eye-searing monstrosities.
The blotches are actually an animated 'smoke trail' effect on that particular armor skin. A static screenshot doesn't show it, although to my eyes they look like spatters of blood. Has nothing to do with enchantments.
The former. We already have eye-searing monstrosities in the game. You can already do pink+green(*shudder*), red+green, purple+green, pink+blue etc. with the existing colors. Mixing you own shades would actually make it possible to make less clashing color combinations.
Oh? That's strange. I've never seen it ingame even though I run the game on almost maxed settings. I guess I need to pay more attention.
That dye also looks cool on my tiefling's armour.
This this this this this. I'm a big spender when it comes to Free to play microtransactions, but the pricing on this game has me spending less money than most of the SOE titles I've dumped 1000's into. It's just....the prices on things are insane, Dyes and Coal wards in particular. I would add astral diamonds to this but the prices on the AH are going to continue to drop and drop while AD will stabilize at some point.
Seriously, it is SOOO much better, if they had a healing class there (not a psuedo half*ssed ~kinda functions as a healer a little bit spec for elementalist) I would STILL be there. These games for me are all about healing. DPS classes bore me to death.
Example - 4 black dyes are 500z. 4 black dyes can dye 4 parts of armor, each piece of armor having 3 fields to dye. Dye Packs range 350-500z for 4 packs, and dye all sections of one piece of armor... making them stretch 4 times as far as a black dye pack.
Proposal? Slash prices on single dyes. Obviously black is more popular, so make Black Dyes cost 100z for 4, and the others 75z for a set of 4. Keep dye packs at current. Lower prices will encourage more sales.
(I'd been looking forward to spending lots of Ardent coins on that one dye pack, until I discovered that they were set combos, not three bottles in a box. Haven't bothered looking at a dye pack since.)
That is completely false. The way it worked having SO MANY dyes and the fact the cash shop sold packs which gave you random ones, tons and tons of people spent money on them. I myself was one of the dye addicts and had at least 400 dyes on each of my 5 alts.. Some were looted, cheaper ones were bought with coin off the auction house, and many I bought from the cash shop.
The problem with this game is there are not near enough dyes, and they are WAY too expensive.
Even though, I still bought some dyes for my toon.. But in THIS game, its going to be a one or two time purchase. It's simply too expensive and not enough choice.
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This was a spendy dye job that I don't want to do again... White only comes in packs and black singles are super high priced.
^ Its very rare to see anyone really using dye because its expensive and difficult to obtain. There's no point using it until you get into your end game gear that you know you'll wear a while. Having a dye system is completely pointless if nobody can or wants to use it.
As a result, everyone's characters just blend together into a amorphous grey blob. There's so little characte customization in game that its a pretty HAMSTER move to have such a high barrier to entry on the one visual customization option we have.
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Hmm... That's actually more than I've spent on real clothes this year... Oh well.
Its fine for the rarer dyes to be expensive cash shop items or rare drops. But there should be a ready set of basic colours available in game from vendors for gold. Especially in a game with this little customization out of the gate.
There isn't even pre-dyed armour drops. Even that would help immensely. Neverwinter needs to take a page from GW2, or Warhammer or even DaoC in regards to dye. Common colours should be readily available. Rarer colours you can do whatever you want with. Make them cash shop items or rare drops or whatever.
Black dye in DaoC cost a fortune, but at least you could go to a vendor and buy basic greens, blues, browns, reds, oranges, yellows, etc.
I mean, planetside 2 did the cosmetics system 1000 times better than neverwinter, and it's an mmo fps for christ sakes. In that, you buy an armour skin, and it's yours forever on all of your characters and you can chop and change whenever you want. And the prices for said skins never exceeded $5, I mean it is just a texture for crying out loud.