Does it sell things that give you advantages you can't earn in game ?
Since you can convert AD to Zen, you can earn anything in the game. Whether you feel it is fast enough is an individual decision. Green assets were going for 5-20k AD for a while (I didn't check since mid last week), blue ones for 20-50k, and you can easily make that even on one day. Those green assets can be upgraded up to purple ones.
I agree that the 300 Zen booster pack should always contained 1 guaranteed green people asset, with a small chance for a blue one, The 1600 Zen pack should contain 1 (or 2?) guaranteed blue people assets with a chance for a purple one. This would at least make me more likely to spend money on those, at least on the 300 Zen ones. I would find the 16000 Zen packs too expensive unless you are guaranteed a purple asset every time. 1600 Zen yielded about 600k AD on Friday and that is the price of purple assets in the AH.
Well, the 300 does have a confirmed green/blue/purple asset, while the 1600 has a chance of giving more than one purple asset. Granted not necessarily people asset, but I'd think the non-people assets are just as important..
Since you can convert AD to Zen, you can earn anything in the game. Whether you feel it is fast enough is an individual decision. Green assets were going for 5-20k AD for a while (I didn't check since mid last week), blue ones for 20-50k, and you can easily make that even on one day. Those green assets can be upgraded up to purple ones.
the 5k for green was probably from before the doomguide exploit, since it was cheaper than even R2 common assets. 20k seems more in line.
the 5k for green was probably from before the doomguide exploit, since it was cheaper than even R2 common assets. 20k seems more in line.
Most likely.
I wish they had made crafting more like the duty officer system from STO. Everyone can get very rare officers with enough time/luck but you could get ultra-rares and officers with special traits from the packs.
Since you can convert AD to Zen, you can earn anything in the game. Whether you feel it is fast enough is an individual decision. Green assets were going for 5-20k AD for a while (I didn't check since mid last week), blue ones for 20-50k, and you can easily make that even on one day. Those green assets can be upgraded up to purple ones.
I didn't intend my reply to be read as only concerning professional assets.
0
silivrenaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 20Arc User
"Does it sell things that give you advantages you can't earn in game ?
Yes it does.
It's pay 2 win end of story. "
While I agree they should be able to be upgraded in the crafting I don't understand your logic...or any of the pay per win logic..You cant earn it ingame? I dont know about you but I earn Astral diamonds ingame...you can buy the packs or the assets with astral diamonds...Am I missing a step here? How is this pay per win?
0
calaminthaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
While I agree they should be able to be upgraded in the crafting I don't understand your logic...or any of the pay per win logic..You cant earn it ingame? I dont know about you but I earn Astral diamonds ingame...you can buy the packs or the assets with astral diamonds...Am I missing a step here? How is this pay per win?
It's not P2W if you can get the same thing for "free" no matter how much it costs or how long it takes?
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myxlplykMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 25Arc User
edited May 2013
The uncommon and higher tier professionals aren't that expensive. I was bargain shopping and picking up uncommon level professionals for under 20k in astral diamonds. If you are even HALF decent at any of the armor professions you can make way more than that in a day.
*eyeroll* the tier 3 crafted items REQUIRE at least a +101% quality bonus from the crafting assets to have a 1% chance to be t3, this would MEAN that you MUST have all blues, or blues/purples while crafting it to even HOPE to craft the t3 version of the gear you craft.
+1-100% is the 1-100% chance it's t2
+101-200% is it 1-100% chance it's t3
t3 crafts sockets into it.........
......... so yes, blue assets not available to FtP = PtW. (at least on the non-person assets, since the people are only a time bonus they would not be a PtW asset)
Yes and you can earn those by collecting enough AD and turn them into ZEN and buy booster packs from the shop.As i said the shop only sells TIME if you don't find this fit for you, you can always hasten your progress by buying booster packs from the shop.
Does it sell things that give you advantages you can't earn in game ?
Yes it does.
It's pay 2 win end of story.
Personally the pay 2 win thing bothers me very little about this game. The troublesome thing is the number of people that need to fool themselves about it.
Yet you forgot to mention which item makes the shop P2W.If it has any of those items please tell us, otherwise don't accuse the shop with claims which are not true.Thx in advance
They have profession packs to people will utilize the store and want to spend money which they need in order to fund the game. With that being said you could still put a super long duration on crafting the assets, like White -> Green could be 10 Days. This way you can completely do so for free but if you want things quicker you can always buy the Profession Packs.
We can't really change their business model although i would be the first one who cheer and celebrate if they pull this out .
As a freebie player i understand the fustration when you see how long it takes to achive the desired goal but i also understand the view point of the company.If you look thru the items in the shop they really reduced the items into two category:TIME and FASHION.
I think it is fair enough for both free and paying players.
Although a long time frame (as enderlin50 said) which needs to get greys to green level could prevent farming and makes the proffesion kits still viable.It is up for PWE if they find that they can live without selling less proffesion kits they will do,otherwise no matter how hard we pushing them they won't change it if it hurts their economy (which is sad but understandable).
I don't get why people keep saying that white -> green would make them free.
A white asset is 2 gold.
Converting 4 lower into 1 higher takes 18 hours.
This means:
One green will cost you 8 gold and 18 hours
One blue will cost you 32 gold and 90 hours
One purple will cost you 128 gold and 378 hours
I don't know about you guys, but this seems anything but free to me. You'd still have a massive benefit if you bought zen. In fact, I doubt anybody in their right mind would go through the process for anything other than burning gold (which has very little worth) and selling it for AD.
In those 378 crafting hours it took to make a purple, you could have crafted enough things to sell for AD that you could just flat out buy a purple one from the AH.
Yes and you can earn those by collecting enough AD and turn them into ZEN and buy booster packs from the shop.As i said the shop only sells TIME if you don't find this fit for you, you can always hasten your progress by buying booster packs from the shop.
Yet you forgot to mention which item makes the shop P2W.If it has any of those items please tell us, otherwise don't accuse the shop with claims which are not true.Thx in advance
here's the rundown to if it's a FtP, or PtW senario:
1) look at the pay shop for any advantages
2) look at current game economy/tradeing as if there was NOBODY, that was PtW
so.... you CAN NOT COUNT AD to Zen exchange, "someone BOUGHT that Zen"
reason you can not count ANY Zen you would make off that exchange? it's because the MORE THAN 90KAD it takes to get just 300 Zen is 90K LESS that you have to do EVERYTHING ELSE.
so considering that Zen can never be exchanged, is there a way to get the advantage, without buying Zen?
not 1 week of grindd, not 2 months of grind, HELL NOT THREE YEARS OF GRIND!!!
_______
note: the reasons that the mounts/companions would not be labled PtW, is there ARE equivalents of both available in game, without having to use zen exchange or buy Zen.
the proffession assets? there is NOTHING in game remotely close to what they grant, even if you was an immortal, and played till the next Ice Age.
if you can grind it in 3-5 years it's not PtW, BUT you must be able to grind a FULL set in 3-5 years AND without touching ad/zen exchange, or buying Zen.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
I voted yes, as it'd be nice to upgrade the white tools. It wouldn't be a straight 4:1, though. You'd need (IMO) to add some green ingredients to make the upgrade.
It won't happen, and I'm OK using the AH to get what I need. Its not ideal,but it gets me what I need.
Perhaps you'd like to know. After collecting information from 27 1600-Zen packs and 74 300-Zen packs opened by me and my friends, we found:
Average of 1600-Zen packs = 14.7 points = 0.0092 points/Zen
Average of 300-Zen packs = 2.69 points = 0.0090 points/Zen
Where a green asset = 1 point, blue asset = 4 points, purple asset = 16 points. People outweighed tools by 2:1.
Thank you for posting this, I really appreciate it!
So purchasing the 300 Zen packs is only slightly worse than buying the 1600 Zen packages, which makes them a better deal than I had thought. This is good information.
Thank you for posting this, I really appreciate it!
So purchasing the 300 Zen packs is only slightly worse than buying the 1600 Zen packages, which makes them a better deal than I had thought. This is good information.
what makes thaem a "better deal" than the 1,600Zen packs is
the 300 Zen packs also come with a large variaty of proffesion resources... that are above andd beyond the asset figures. (seeing as the "pack" has no resources, and the booster has a lot of resources, beyond the assests granted)
it's a simple case of, we will sell you 5 cats, in a pack, for the low price of 5.33 cats
Cryptic REALLY needs to look at what other things they themselves set the prices on, before randomly assigning a price to something.
if you placed the 5 celestial coin pack as 300Z, and the current 300Z pack as 5 celestial coins.... THEN FtP can get green assets, and the new 300Z pack is actualy still worth 300Z, compared to the 1,600 pack actualy having assets but no resources
________
edit to add: same goes for some of the assignments.... if you switched thier level, and or rareity, then they would start to make sense... instead of haveing a rare or higher level assignment that reqiers more resources, giveing only the same loot per hour, or less loot per hour than the lower level common assignment, that also requires LESS resources
Does it sell things that give you advantages you can't earn in game ?
Yes it does.
It's pay 2 win end of story.
Personally the pay 2 win thing bothers me very little about this game. The troublesome thing is the number of people that need to fool themselves about it.
Are you still level 1?
Have you never seen the AH? There are tons of colored assets there and the prices are affordable.
Are you still level 1?
Have you never seen the AH? There are tons of colored assets there and the prices are affordable.
who bought the packs that the assets was in?
also since they are cheaper than the equivalent amount they would cost if you exchanged AD for Zen and bought a pack... that means the seller was most likely one of the exploiters that was "laundering" their AD..... so the question now is...... how many exploiters was missed in the great catbann, and how many are still going to be around to keep that price low *hmm makes you think*
_______
besides a FtP market gets you the equivalent of any item "eventually over time" even if NOBODY ever spent real $
and there is no equivalent "Purple asset, that you can get, without ether using Zen, or buying it from someone who used Zen.
______
even my spider mount and companion have "FtP equivalents" on game-play, also you can and do get some FtP off duty outfit pieces, so there is an outfit choice available to FtP... BUT, there is no t3 crafting available to FtP unless you buy from someone who spent Zen to get it. it's a CLOSED MARKET, those that buy Zen (ether with $ or AD) are the ONLY ONES that can get the green/blue/purple assets. everyone else must "hope" one of them posts some at a reasonable AD price on AH.
edit to add: a good way to limit the FtP version, compared to Zen version would be to make the FtP version BoP, that way they can make thier own, but can't trade it to another player, or sell it on AH
also since they are cheaper than the equivalent amount they would cost if you exchanged AD for Zen and bought a pack... that means the seller was most likely one of the exploiters that was "laundering" their AD..... so the question now is...... how many exploiters was missed in the great catbann, and how many are still going to be around to keep that price low *hmm makes you think*
_______
besides a FtP market gets you the equivalent of any item "eventually over time" even if NOBODY ever spent real $
and there is no equivalent "Purple asset, that you can get, without ether using Zen, or buying it from someone who used Zen.
Well, if no one spends money there won't be any uncommon assets, right?
No one has uncommon assets - no problem.
Also, it does not mean they're exploiters, they could have gotten an asset they didn't want and decided that selling it is the best way to recoup expenses.
Well, if no one spends money there won't be any uncommon assets, right?
No one has uncommon assets - no problem.
Also, it does not mean they're exploiters, they could have gotten an asset they didn't want and decided that selling it is the best way to recoup expenses.
soo.... you mean they levled to at least lvl; 10, and ran profesions for how long? to no longer "neeed it? and even if they didn't "need it" tell me how "bags of holes" are cheaper than the cost to get them, in AH, because the owner of it "doesn't need it"
even if someone "doesn't need" something they "DO NEED" AD, unless they already have 100 billion AD from the ... exploit?
0
morbicMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The cash shop assets are not just a convenience, they are required to unlock crafting slots and required to make the high end items.
Having two more slots on the same character is convenience. It's basically the same as saving time. You can put as many professions on as many characters on as many free accounts as you'd like.
How can you expect PW/Cryptic to make absolutely everything attainable without zen? Just because the game is Free to play doesn't mean its free to design, develop, patch, host etc etc. They have to make enough money to pay for all this, and not only that game designers don't create MMO's b/c they love to play them, they are in this to make a profit, as is every company in the world. The free to play model allows players that don't want to spend one penny to play a game that cost them 100's of thousands (maybe more) of dollars to create absolutely free! Ok so I can't craft my cloth boots as fast as joe shmo who spent 200 dollars on a founder pack, I also didn't have to spend anything to take advantage of the other 99.99% of the content in the game. No one is going to pay for something they could just as easily get for free, and if no one is buying zen there won't be a Neverwinter for you to complain about on their forums.
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
0
bzzzdMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
No one is going to pay for something they could just as easily get for free, and if no one is buying zen there won't be a Neverwinter for you to complain about on their forums.
I'm confused, how would getting non-common assets be "easy" when it would probably take over a week to get a purple one (not to mention what other stuff the task might require).
also, you assume resource booster/asset packs are a big sale and having that ingame would rob cryptic broke (poor cryptic). L O L.
truth is it's a crappy value for the packs since crafting itself is pretty <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. sure, let me spend millions of AD or three digits of money to get the packs so I MAYBE get the assets I need to craft an item that is worse & more cumbersome than pretty much everything you can get at 60.
anything remotely relevant would be shirts & pants - suprise, I can get them with less hassle and much cheaper out of the AH directly. heck even LS assets aren't that useful, the different in AD is minimal considering the effort/price to get them.
I think we can both agree IT'S JUST NOT WORTH IT. so having that stuff ingame hurts no one. it will actually keep people playing, and guess who buys zen? people that play! revolutionary thought....
I'm confused, how would getting non-common assets be "easy" when it would probably take over a week to get a purple one (not to mention what other stuff the task might require).
Because with free accounts, anyone with spare time can set up an asset assembly line with no trouble at all.
truth is it's a crappy value for the packs since crafting itself is pretty <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. sure, let me spend millions of AD or three digits of money to get the packs so I MAYBE get the assets I need to craft an item that is worse & more cumbersome than pretty much everything you can get at 60.
anything remotely relevant would be shirts & pants - suprise, I can get them with less hassle and much cheaper out of the AH directly. heck even LS assets aren't that useful, the different in AD is minimal considering the effort/price to get them.
I think we can both agree IT'S JUST NOT WORTH IT. so having that stuff ingame hurts no one. it will actually keep people playing, and guess who buys zen? people that play! revolutionary thought....
If it's not worth it, then why do you care if the assets are there or not? Clearly it's worth it enough for you to post about it.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
Comments
Since you can convert AD to Zen, you can earn anything in the game. Whether you feel it is fast enough is an individual decision. Green assets were going for 5-20k AD for a while (I didn't check since mid last week), blue ones for 20-50k, and you can easily make that even on one day. Those green assets can be upgraded up to purple ones.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
Most likely.
I wish they had made crafting more like the duty officer system from STO. Everyone can get very rare officers with enough time/luck but you could get ultra-rares and officers with special traits from the packs.
I didn't intend my reply to be read as only concerning professional assets.
It's not P2W if you can get the same thing for "free" no matter how much it costs or how long it takes?
SO a few days, you have uncommon professionals.
As a freebie player i understand the fustration when you see how long it takes to achive the desired goal but i also understand the view point of the company.If you look thru the items in the shop they really reduced the items into two category:TIME and FASHION.
I think it is fair enough for both free and paying players.
Although a long time frame (as enderlin50 said) which needs to get greys to green level could prevent farming and makes the proffesion kits still viable.It is up for PWE if they find that they can live without selling less proffesion kits they will do,otherwise no matter how hard we pushing them they won't change it if it hurts their economy (which is sad but understandable).
A white asset is 2 gold.
Converting 4 lower into 1 higher takes 18 hours.
This means:
One green will cost you 8 gold and 18 hours
One blue will cost you 32 gold and 90 hours
One purple will cost you 128 gold and 378 hours
I don't know about you guys, but this seems anything but free to me. You'd still have a massive benefit if you bought zen. In fact, I doubt anybody in their right mind would go through the process for anything other than burning gold (which has very little worth) and selling it for AD.
In those 378 crafting hours it took to make a purple, you could have crafted enough things to sell for AD that you could just flat out buy a purple one from the AH.
here's the rundown to if it's a FtP, or PtW senario:
1) look at the pay shop for any advantages
2) look at current game economy/tradeing as if there was NOBODY, that was PtW
so.... you CAN NOT COUNT AD to Zen exchange, "someone BOUGHT that Zen"
reason you can not count ANY Zen you would make off that exchange? it's because the MORE THAN 90KAD it takes to get just 300 Zen is 90K LESS that you have to do EVERYTHING ELSE.
so considering that Zen can never be exchanged, is there a way to get the advantage, without buying Zen?
not 1 week of grindd, not 2 months of grind, HELL NOT THREE YEARS OF GRIND!!!
_______
note: the reasons that the mounts/companions would not be labled PtW, is there ARE equivalents of both available in game, without having to use zen exchange or buy Zen.
the proffession assets? there is NOTHING in game remotely close to what they grant, even if you was an immortal, and played till the next Ice Age.
if you can grind it in 3-5 years it's not PtW, BUT you must be able to grind a FULL set in 3-5 years AND without touching ad/zen exchange, or buying Zen.
It won't happen, and I'm OK using the AH to get what I need. Its not ideal,but it gets me what I need.
Thank you for posting this, I really appreciate it!
So purchasing the 300 Zen packs is only slightly worse than buying the 1600 Zen packages, which makes them a better deal than I had thought. This is good information.
what makes thaem a "better deal" than the 1,600Zen packs is
the 300 Zen packs also come with a large variaty of proffesion resources... that are above andd beyond the asset figures. (seeing as the "pack" has no resources, and the booster has a lot of resources, beyond the assests granted)
it's a simple case of, we will sell you 5 cats, in a pack, for the low price of 5.33 cats
Cryptic REALLY needs to look at what other things they themselves set the prices on, before randomly assigning a price to something.
if you placed the 5 celestial coin pack as 300Z, and the current 300Z pack as 5 celestial coins.... THEN FtP can get green assets, and the new 300Z pack is actualy still worth 300Z, compared to the 1,600 pack actualy having assets but no resources
________
edit to add: same goes for some of the assignments.... if you switched thier level, and or rareity, then they would start to make sense... instead of haveing a rare or higher level assignment that reqiers more resources, giveing only the same loot per hour, or less loot per hour than the lower level common assignment, that also requires LESS resources
Are you still level 1?
Have you never seen the AH? There are tons of colored assets there and the prices are affordable.
who bought the packs that the assets was in?
also since they are cheaper than the equivalent amount they would cost if you exchanged AD for Zen and bought a pack... that means the seller was most likely one of the exploiters that was "laundering" their AD..... so the question now is...... how many exploiters was missed in the great catbann, and how many are still going to be around to keep that price low *hmm makes you think*
_______
besides a FtP market gets you the equivalent of any item "eventually over time" even if NOBODY ever spent real $
and there is no equivalent "Purple asset, that you can get, without ether using Zen, or buying it from someone who used Zen.
______
even my spider mount and companion have "FtP equivalents" on game-play, also you can and do get some FtP off duty outfit pieces, so there is an outfit choice available to FtP... BUT, there is no t3 crafting available to FtP unless you buy from someone who spent Zen to get it. it's a CLOSED MARKET, those that buy Zen (ether with $ or AD) are the ONLY ONES that can get the green/blue/purple assets. everyone else must "hope" one of them posts some at a reasonable AD price on AH.
edit to add: a good way to limit the FtP version, compared to Zen version would be to make the FtP version BoP, that way they can make thier own, but can't trade it to another player, or sell it on AH
Well, if no one spends money there won't be any uncommon assets, right?
No one has uncommon assets - no problem.
Also, it does not mean they're exploiters, they could have gotten an asset they didn't want and decided that selling it is the best way to recoup expenses.
soo.... you mean they levled to at least lvl; 10, and ran profesions for how long? to no longer "neeed it? and even if they didn't "need it" tell me how "bags of holes" are cheaper than the cost to get them, in AH, because the owner of it "doesn't need it"
even if someone "doesn't need" something they "DO NEED" AD, unless they already have 100 billion AD from the ... exploit?
It may not, but it is nice to see the community opinions on a subject anyways....
Foundry Content:Guide - Custom Channels and List (NW-DHBU9OTOS)
Asset upgrading poll.
Having two more slots on the same character is convenience. It's basically the same as saving time. You can put as many professions on as many characters on as many free accounts as you'd like.
Please fix these minor issues.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
I'm confused, how would getting non-common assets be "easy" when it would probably take over a week to get a purple one (not to mention what other stuff the task might require).
also, you assume resource booster/asset packs are a big sale and having that ingame would rob cryptic broke (poor cryptic). L O L.
truth is it's a crappy value for the packs since crafting itself is pretty <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. sure, let me spend millions of AD or three digits of money to get the packs so I MAYBE get the assets I need to craft an item that is worse & more cumbersome than pretty much everything you can get at 60.
anything remotely relevant would be shirts & pants - suprise, I can get them with less hassle and much cheaper out of the AH directly. heck even LS assets aren't that useful, the different in AD is minimal considering the effort/price to get them.
I think we can both agree IT'S JUST NOT WORTH IT. so having that stuff ingame hurts no one. it will actually keep people playing, and guess who buys zen? people that play! revolutionary thought....
Because with free accounts, anyone with spare time can set up an asset assembly line with no trouble at all.
If it's not worth it, then why do you care if the assets are there or not? Clearly it's worth it enough for you to post about it.