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Best single target at-will?
flatgonzo
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
Hi.
I am about to respec my GWF after hitting 60 and was wondering if there is something better than Weapon Master's Strike for single target dps? I've seen people using Sure Strike among others. WMS seems to work fine on pretty much everything as the bread and butter strike but if there's something better for single targets, could you tell me? It's hard to say with the dummies.
Thanks.
I am about to respec my GWF after hitting 60 and was wondering if there is something better than Weapon Master's Strike for single target dps? I've seen people using Sure Strike among others. WMS seems to work fine on pretty much everything as the bread and butter strike but if there's something better for single targets, could you tell me? It's hard to say with the dummies.
Thanks.
Server: Mindflayer
Vicorin, Half-Orc Great Weapon Fighter
Vicorin, Half-Orc Great Weapon Fighter
Raan Ilmatar, Wood Elf Control Wizard
Post edited by flatgonzo on
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Do NOT use Sure Strike.
WMS/WS weave is your best at will usage.
IBS/Flourish for some encounter DPS.
That is about the best you will get excluding dailies.
Alright, thanks. I already use all of those, I guess mainly I want a shout with my respec and feats to support being unstoppable as much as possible.
On an unrelated matter, crescendo reminds me of omnislash every time I use it. (slam/crescendo are my dailys)
Vicorin, Half-Orc Great Weapon Fighter
WS is the least optimal way to do single target dmg.
my 0.02 cents.
But in PvP, if you get mobbed, then your SS is going to become clearly useless. You need that WS to stack in groups for more damage. WMS is where you need to go. SS is too slow in its current incarnation and you can even dodge the last swing easily. WMS always hits on the second strike from behind regardless if your opponent moves or not.
Are you talking PvE, PvP, or a little of both flatgonzo?
What paragon feat path will you be taking? Will you have any of the feats that boost an at-will?
A bit of both I suppose. I'm not in game right now so it's hard to say, but I took mostly the middle paragon path. I would like to aim for something that gains actions points fast and spends a lot of time in unstoppable mode, also boosting the power of at-wills. I believe I have several feats that do that right now. But like I said, not in game right now so I'll have to get back to you on that once I have time to sit down and look at the feats.
Vicorin, Half-Orc Great Weapon Fighter
WMS/WS combo works for BOTH PvE and PvP, you need to simply learn how to use them. SS is never useful. Until it has a damage boost for bosses, if it comes, don't bother.
WMS is pretty much our bread and butter at-wills. Most people go with WMS+WW (Instigator build) or WMS + RP (Destroyer build). Sure strike is just plain awful and a lot of GWF noobs uses it (just because it has fast attack speed).
If you're a Destroyer Reaping Strike gives the best single-target damage, but that assumes you never hit any other mobs with it. (Doubtful.) The alternatives are pretty much Sure Strike or WMS. Unless you already have end-game items and enchants, don't use Sure Strike.
Honestly, and I really hate to say this, if single-target is your thing you rolled the wrong class. TR outdoes GWF by at least a factor of four without even trying. This assumes the GWF is busting his balls to try and catch up. The distances widens even further if the TR actually bothers to use an encounter.
GWF can pull ahead in AoE, but single-target is a waste of time. Your team will get another TR to complete single-target fights rather than take you.
If you're wondering for PvP, than you should probably be shooting for a stunlock build.
Actually you can use sprint to cancel animation. Throw a flourish, while the animation is playing out, sprint forward, it lets you cancel the animation so you don't stay rooted in place, then run takedown (target will be prone) giving you time to do IWS and hope it crits. That's the only way you can ever hope of defeating a TR/CW.
Instigator it seems now that I got a look. I'm not looking to do single target damage as such, just curious how to best do it when I have to. I'll roll a TR soon enough for single target fun. Gonna take a look tonight at feats and maybe spend that respec token. Hated paying for it but here we are.
Vicorin, Half-Orc Great Weapon Fighter
I'd save that respec and play it as-is until they decide what they're doing with it, you might regret that later. WMS is the best single-attack for the GWF, there is no other option.
You can't. I mean, I hate to say that, but you really can't. Instigator is entirely focused on AoE. You can change your build, or your class, but single-target damage is not in the cards for GWF in most realistic dungeon fights or in PvP.
Don't waste a respec token trying to make GWF something it isn't. Just reroll a TR for free if that's what you're looking for.
The best possible single-target damage that I've been able to do has come from Reaping Strike and the Destroyer tree's 25% bonus damage to RS vs. single-targets. It crits for 13k consistantly per shot, and I've seen it go as high as 20k+ with team debuff's. For an at-will that ain't bad, but it's the fact that the damage is reduced significantly if even a single minion wanders into it's gigantor AoE.
Honestly, RS needs a smaller AoE. With it's max targets hit set at five, there's no good reason for the AoE to be the size of Texas. Maybe Rhode Island sized, but with it being so huge it's impossible to use it as a single-target damage ability unless your CW is just going entirely ape****, in which case you aren't dealing the AoE damage you should.
It's a catch 22 for GWF's.
Well looks like they are about to do a major patch very soon (maybe near the weekends) and hope they will give a free respec token.
So I heard, we'll see. I'm happy with my GWF, though it can be troubling at times in T2s, but once any changes come, if they're buffs, I'll be unstoppable. Get it?
I actually use roar a lot. It works well against CW.. but doesn't seem to work to interrupt TR skills (maybe because most of them are instant execute).
Yeah, it was supposed to drop this morning. Now there's not even an ETA on them having an ETA. I imagine they found a huge, glaring hole in something just before pushing it out. Perhaps they accidentally buffed Rogues or something with the changes.
I agree with the previous advice that you should hold off on respeccing until the major patch goes through. If you get a free respec token, you will want to use it first.
Flourish breaks that for them, another reason why I use it, but you have to keep on them.
Vicorin, Half-Orc Great Weapon Fighter
First to answer the question of the OP. Why even ask? As someone said, if you are looking for single target dps you picked the wrong class. Given that WMS/SS is your best bet. Tap WMS, hold SS. After two rotations of SS, tap wms. When you can go unstoppable, do your encounters if you are a destroyer and go back to wms/ss.
Here is the flaw in GWF. The dungeons suck monkey balls. Who cares if you can out AOE anyone? You are not gonna push them off a cliff or a bridge. Who cares you can Slam and Crescendo at the same time (glitch) when half the time the mobs are in the air due to singularity or flying every which way from GF and CWs doing their things. People quote Most Damage Dealt (MDD) numbers and when they do, I stop reading their post because clearly they never done a single T2 dungeon. If your GWF is in the top 2 in damage in a T2 dungeon; you either took 3 hours to complete it or no TR, CW went with you. I don't even know if a CW gets "damage" credit for pushing 7 mobs off a cliff or not but any damage you as a GWF does for the majority of the dungeon is worthless. Then you got the boss where mobs (no longer) are able to be tossed off of something and die. You got insane amount of adds to deal with and an insane about of HP boss. You can help with CCing the adds but you will never ever get aggro unless the cleric dies. You can go help the rogue dps, but if you die they can 4 man it. If the rogue dies it is a "wipe it" situation. It is not that GWF sucks (it is very complex and that is a good thing) it is that how the dungeons are designed he is truly worthless as a class. If you got a DC, CW, TR as your three and you got two spots left what do you pick? GF? Maybe cause he can actually take aggro. Oh, I know it is tough to do even for him, but he can do it like once every 7 seconds or so. Take GWF? NO FRAKEN WAY. Why would you? You either take another CW or TR depending on the dungeon.
I know what pugnacious people are saying. What if you want someone who can do both? Yeah that is what GWF is great at. A little bit of both. Tell me what current dungeon requires a little bit of both? Exactly.
As for PVP... please stop it. It is CW and other. You know it, I know it, and God knows it. The only people that don't know it is the devs. Wait, it is CW, DC and other. I can run around and ninja capturing shrines and get top 5 but will never out rank a good CW. All things being equal right? Because yes I have gotten top rank but trust me when I say they were not a eleet players in that match.
The game is flawed for the GWF. They have no place right now. I know what the devs... I think I know what they were trying to do with the GWF. Have him be the jack of trades. That is great if such a "bard" character was needed. He is not in the current dungeons/PVP. The only dungeon that might require a GWF is t2 spiders. And that is debatable but the sentinel build in that final boss would probably rock.
Everyone is trying to find that special combo where they can stand up and say, "I did it! I made the GWF work!" But here is how 100% of those posts go.
1. GWF players are stupid.
2. Use my build I am great.
3. BUT you won't out dps a rogue.
4. BUT you won't out CC a CW.
5. BUT you won't out tank a GF.
Oh and nothing in game requires a "bard" class.
Not the class, it is the flawed environment. There is no fix for him.
I crit for 13828 with my IBS (drake sword, no fireplace buff/companion) but I crit for 14184 with RS. Combined with team debuffs I've seen it crit for 23k~ consistently, 30k+ with lolenfeeble. It gives me a fairly big boost in damage and I honestly wouldn't spec out of it. I also only use regular charge reaping when my WMS crits, giving me enough time to fully charge + swing with RS and get another WMS in to refresh SoTS.
I honestly don't have a problem fulfilling the conditions for optimal usage of RS (single target or not) and when I do fulfill it, it increases the dying speed (of my enemies), unless they're low HP in which case I just spam WMS instead.
The extra determination gain combined with DC shield is pretty **** good too.
SS is superior if you use Student of the Sword feat with Tennebrous and Plaguefire Enchants though.
Character is what a man is in the dark
As I said, not looking for single target damage, only the best means to do it when absolutely necessary. But your post was great reading, and you are absolutely correct. I highlighted the need for GF/GWF utility in my post here (like anyone reads it) but the way things are, I'm gonna reroll and come back later to see if the GWF has gotten any attention.
In fact, if you don't mind, I'll link to your post to explain the situation to people.
Vicorin, Half-Orc Great Weapon Fighter
Once again you don't know threat mechanics. Life Steal/regen add threat. I have no issues maintaining 1st or 2nd in regards to threat.
We can't push mobs of bridges? Since when? Roar does in fact push, and I have in fact pushed many mobs off bridges.
In regards to PVP. You don't read much...many threads around with common rotation builds that can stun-lock-kill any class.
You sound like you are extremely frustrated.
A GWF puts out copious amounts of damage when played/positioned right.
Do we suffer from single target dps in regards to all other classes? Yes.
I will be happily playing my GWF and earning Pain giver/Executioner until they drop the balancing patch with more paragon paths.
I know threat mechanics and I know plenty of our encounters/daily generate threat but it is NOT nearly enough to take it away from the DC. Not even close.
You can maybe push one or two mobs off a bridge if a CW did not do a good job and kept them hanging on the edge, otherwise you are not pushing anything off. Oh and a good CW can do the "punt" at least twice for every roar.
PVP: Dude seriously? What you gonna pay 6 bucks to spec out each time you want to go into pvp and then respec each CN dungeon run? Seriously? Because I have read those stun lock builds and they make your pve even beyond weak and they say as much. Gear is different, feats, powers all different. Good luck with that. And even if you were Bill Gates illegitimate love child and re-speced each time between PvP and PvE... if you are at a shrine and a CW is running toward you on his horse... you are dead or vice versa. 1 on 1 you got no shot no matter what build you use. That is not so much a GWF sucks at pvp, it is CW is OP in pvp.
I am not frustrated. I like playing my GWF, but it needs "balancing" and when people come on and say.."You suck that is why GWF sucks," well yeah that pisses me off. I am not the best GWF but dude I can play. GWF sucks because the dungeon design sucks. And that is all you are doing at 60, farming dungeons right? OR PVP, which is a mess even beyond CW OP-ness.