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Forums > Home› Neverwinter Discussion › General Discussion (PC)

Pulling bosses back to avoid trash, is this an exploit?

kevinf08kevinf08 Member Posts: 432 Bounty Hunter
edited June 2013 in General Discussion (PC)
In caverns of kurrundax this "strategy" is pretty much the norm in pugs.

Is pulling the bosses back so that he doesn't spawn adds considered an exploit? Seems like the adds are an intended part of the fight.
Post edited by kevinf08 on
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Comments

  • dtrain69dtrain69 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Adds are the fight.
  • ranncoreranncore Member, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 2,508
    edited June 2013
    I'm pretty sure this is called strategy, not exploiting. Although there is certainly a fine line.
  • pilf3rpilf3r Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    In games I have played pulling or luring was not an exploit.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Neverwinter Thieves Guild
  • vassilizaitsevvassilizaitsev Member Posts: 109 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    The thing I hate about this dungeon in particular is the fact that you will waste at least 2 or 3 injury kits from the whole "run to the fire, past the adds and let them kill you at the fire".
  • nwobrocknwobrock Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Silverstars Posts: 151 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    All the boss fights are just annoying. Whoever thought, "Hey guys! I know what to do! Just spawn a ****load of adds!" should be....<left up to your imagination>
  • kevinf08kevinf08 Member Posts: 432 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    ranncore wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure this is called strategy, not exploiting. Although there is certainly a fine line.

    Considering that the adds are the part that makes boss fight somewhat difficult I have a hard time believing this is working as intended.
  • rapticorrapticor Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,078 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    kevinf08 wrote: »
    Considering that the adds are the part that makes boss fight somewhat difficult I have a hard time believing this is working as intended.

    I'm fine with that. Maybe when they design fights that's aren't just a ****load of adds I'd start caring.
  • klaw10klaw10 Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Deleted /10char.
    Sig_zpse9729709.png
  • kevinf08kevinf08 Member Posts: 432 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    rapticor wrote: »
    I'm fine with that. Maybe when they design fights that's aren't just a ****load of adds I'd start caring.

    I do understand that alot of people don't like the adds in boss fights, but in the same token alot of people don't like the price of cats. That doesn't make the AH exploit from Caturday good practice.
  • panderuspanderus Member, NW_CrypticDev, Cryptic Developer Posts: 1,007 Cryptic Developer
    edited June 2013
    It is not intended and we will be fixing these in a case per case basis as we can or perhaps a systemic fix if possible. This is not a serious enough of an exploit or bug to suspend players or bring the shards down for an immediate fix though.
  • dexymandexyman Member Posts: 91 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    pulling is not exploiting, imo. Although there are a hell of a lot of ppl using or trying to find exploits in dungeon runs atm.
  • cetra07cetra07 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    kevinf08 wrote: »
    In caverns of kurrundax this "strategy" is pretty much the norm in pugs.

    Is pulling the bosses back so that he doesn't spawn adds considered an exploit? Seems like the adds are an intended part of the fight.

    go away ****
  • chudovishyechudovishye Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    kevinf08 wrote: »
    In caverns of kurrundax this "strategy" is pretty much the norm in pugs.

    Is pulling the bosses back so that he doesn't spawn adds considered an exploit? Seems like the adds are an intended part of the fight.

    Been in plenty of parties who pulled stuff back to have the CW cast it over the side. I don't consider that an exploit, it's just the game, and it shouldn't be considered anything but. With some of the add mobs we have to deal with, it's strategy.
  • aandrethegiantaandrethegiant Member Posts: 3,369 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    panderus wrote: »
    It is not intended and we will be fixing these in a case per case basis as we can or perhaps a systemic fix if possible. This is not a serious enough of an exploit or bug to suspend players or bring the shards down for an immediate fix though.

    I think the best solution should be to change the spawn spot from its original boss fight area to a radius around the boss, where ever he goes. This should also apply to necromancers and any other mob who can generate new mobs via magic.

    This would be the most realistic fix and add a necessary amount of difficulty to many of the mini-boss and end-boss fights in the game at all levels.

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  • kevinf08kevinf08 Member Posts: 432 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    panderus wrote: »
    It is not intended and we will be fixing these in a case per case basis as we can or perhaps a systemic fix if possible. This is not a serious enough of an exploit or bug to suspend players or bring the shards down for an immediate fix though.

    Thanks for the answer much appreicated.
  • imperviumimpervium Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Let's mix game mechanics with reason and logic here.

    Pulling a minion that has strayed a bit makes perfect sense. Especially if the minion is dumb. You can do that in real life. Try it at school sometime.

    Pulling the minion's boss, or a whole group's boss, and expecting the boss to go wandering off like an idiot while every single minion "couldn't care less" what's going down--that, my friends, is...not exactly how social beings in a hierarchy respond to threats. Unless the boss knows just how useless its minions are--then he/she might tell them to stay put while he/she goes and checks out the distraction. :D

    The devs have given us free reign to pull dumb AI away from other dumb AI, but yeah, don't expect it to last forever. :p
    _

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  • rapticorrapticor Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,078 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    kevinf08 wrote: »
    I do understand that alot of people don't like the adds in boss fights, but in the same token alot of people don't like the price of cats. That doesn't make the AH exploit from Caturday good practice.

    Not sure how those are really related. If the mob is allowed to be pulled out of its room when not intended to be that's no fault of the player. How are they supposed to know that? Besides I know when you pull some bosses you still get adds wherever you are so I don't see the big deal. If they aren't meant to be moved from where they are they should implement some sort of tether ability.
  • frariifrarii Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Panderus, feels great to see you posting, would be possible to make an sticky post were we can ask you guys the reasoning behind things that happen in the game? obviously i wont ask for being 24/7 in the forums (you are working, and its well known that dwelling forums turns oneself green and grumpy) but to enlight us with a couple responses of mechanics, state of the game, state of the updates, why are the game the way it is... that would be amazing and im sure that it will reduce the complains ten fold, yah, idiocy will continue being idiocy, but the civil posters and most of the fanbase would love that...


    For example: What's the reason behind all the boss battles being just a swarm of mobs instead of giving bosses interesting AI and make it difficult for themselves? or at least, different between them, almost all fights are the same...
    And even more important, is there a chance to tweak the dungeons so the mobs drop anything valuable? even in 1/100 rate would be rewarding killing them, blue enchants/runes (1/5000 purple ones?) dyes, wards, dragon eggs (1/1000 also), heck, even enchanted keys (1/5000) that would make playing dungeons more rewarding, right now, for lvl 60 players, there is no reason to play dungeons, the rate of drops has been nerfed, even if you play them in delves event the reward is almost never worth it, so people do "speed runs" shortcutting fights in a way you guys would'nt want... there are a lot of simple things that would make the game more enjoyable and fun to play, and you guys "hearing and explaining" us is probably the most important of iit...


    Thank you for your hard work, the game has infinite potential, just right now is not fullfilling it, but i strongly believe it can!
  • chronomancerchronomancer Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1,223
    edited June 2013
    I really hate mobs that does the vacuum sucking skill then explode. Most of the time you still get damaged even tho you are outside it's AOE radius and many of those can 1-2 shot you. So seriously reduce the AOE radius of the mob so people can actually run away from it.
  • twodollartwodollar Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Next they will say it is unintended to throw mobs off an edge even though we put 10000 spots in a dungeon to do that and gave classes the ability to use it i wonder if the devs have even tried cn last boss without knocking them off the edge
    Please don't run. You will just die tired :)
  • jihancritiasjihancritias Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    When there are 50 adds, an insane amount of aoe on the ground (you won't live unless you have two clerics, and still might not), and a boss hammering you, I don't think it should be considered an exploit. The add issue on bosses is really over the top. Knockback, dazed, silenced, shield gone, hit for all of your health. Rethink boss fights please.
    TL : DR? Then don't waste my time responding.
  • jipatsujipatsu Member Posts: 94
    edited June 2013
    Bosses are HAMSTER easy without the adds, so the adds are there to elude you to think that the boss encounters are hard when you are swarmed by the adds.

    Sometimes when our group fights the boss without pulling it to "safety", with kiting the adds the boss dies in five to ten minutes. Then to kill the adds takes almost two times of that.

    Cryptic should revamp the boss mechanics and toss the adds idea to the garbage bin.
  • jihancritiasjihancritias Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Yeah, the drop rates in these dungeons is horrid. I mean, running an epic and getting only blues, is sad. Running delves and getting blues ONLY, five times in a row, is sad. I want one stupid boot. Greaves of the Sacred Hand. I've repeatedly run crapmire crypts, and gotten junk. Not to mention they are bop boots. Running that stupid dungeon, and dealing with that boss that shows the animation any time anyone hits the top step, drives me nuts. One run tonight, I think his animation showed 20 times. Then, get to the end, in a bad group, and get a blue dagger. Two runs in a row. A blue dagger, that no one, EVER, will use.
    jipatsu wrote: »
    Bosses are HAMSTER easy without the adds, so the adds are there to elude you to think that the boss encounters are hard when you are swarmed by the adds.

    Sometimes when our group fights the boss without pulling it to "safety", with kiting the adds the boss dies in five to ten minutes. Then to kill the adds takes almost two times of that.

    Cryptic should revamp the boss mechanics and toss the adds idea to the garbage bin.

    Not to mention when it bugs, and adds stand there doing nothing, or keep coming, even though the boss is long dead. We had an add come through the final gate the other night, while we were on the last boss, in Frozen Heart or some HAMSTER. The adds keep spawning also. No amount of healing from me, especially with the aggro issue, will save anyone.

    There are way too many issues right now for the game to be a lot of fun, as it should/can be. That is, unless you run two wizards, two clerics, and a rogue. Then, you get two classes left out.
    TL : DR? Then don't waste my time responding.
  • asberdiesasberdies Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    jihancritias wrote: »
    Yeah, the drop rates in these dungeons is horrid. I mean, running an epic and getting only blues, is sad. Running delves and getting blues ONLY, five times in a row, is sad. I want one stupid boot. Greaves of the Sacred Hand. I've repeatedly run crapmire crypts, and gotten junk. Not to mention they are bop boots. Running that stupid dungeon, and dealing with that boss that shows the animation any time anyone hits the top step, drives me nuts. One run tonight, I think his animation showed 20 times. Then, get to the end, in a bad group, and get a blue dagger. Two runs in a row. A blue dagger, that no one, EVER, will use.



    Not to mention when it bugs, and adds stand there doing nothing, or keep coming, even though the boss is long dead. We had an add come through the final gate the other night, while we were on the last boss, in Frozen Heart or some HAMSTER. The adds keep spawning also. No amount of healing from me, especially with the aggro issue, will save anyone.

    There are way too many issues right now for the game to be a lot of fun, as it should/can be. That is, unless you run two wizards, two clerics, and a rogue. Then, you get two classes left out.
    So right, add HAMSTER loot to lots of bugs make this game an experience of frustration like no other MMO before !
  • ambisinisterrambisinisterr Member, Neverwinter Moderator Posts: 10,462 Community Moderator
    edited June 2013
    aandrethegiant wrote: »
    I think the best solution should be to change the spawn spot from its original boss fight area to a radius around the boss, where ever he goes. This should also apply to necromancers and any other mob who can generate new mobs via magic.

    This would be the most realistic fix and add a necessary amount of difficulty to many of the mini-boss and end-boss fights in the game at all levels.

    Agreed.
    In fact I was rather surprised when I found out pulling the boss disabled the spawns.

    The things is I think the means in which mobs spawn should be modified a bit. Right now it is all too easy to spawn far too many mobs to contend with since the number of mobs spawning is tied to the damage the boss takes. Obviously mobs shouldn't be able to get chunked down as fast as possible but it would be nice to abalnce it out a bit and make a nice mix between boss damage and a time delay feature.

    Holding back from fighting to prevent committing suicide is what causes people to pull mobs to begin with.
  • itheryelitheryel Member Posts: 335 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    Just rework dungeon after dungeon for better game mechanics and the community wil be pleased, this should be a blueprint of what is to come, not the final edition.

    Ore leave them how they are and add new dungeons inspired by the community's feedback. people wil look back at these dungeons with a smile, and enjoy playing the new ones even more because of them. Eventualy if the game keeps growing these dungeons wil become a small part of the entire dungeon list :) so they wil be considered difficult (because of the mass adds) but it wont be a negative "difficult" because there will be other dungeons designed around other mechanics?...

    Just imagine if the current dungeons where 5% of all the dungeons, and all the other dungeons dident have the mass add spam difficulty. Would u stil consider these dungeons borring difficult? Ore would they be a challenge in there own right?
    Petram Sacram - I am no devine cleric, i am a Gaurdian fighter in disguise with better threat and supportive spells -
  • kaasdoekkaasdoek Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    panderus wrote: »
    It is not intended and we will be fixing these in a case per case basis as we can or perhaps a systemic fix if possible. This is not a serious enough of an exploit or bug to suspend players or bring the shards down for an immediate fix though.


    if you want an easy way to fix it. Do it like Everquest. Named always summon players to them if they try to flee away.
  • alandoril1alandoril1 Member Posts: 116 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    itheryel wrote: »
    Just rework dungeon after dungeon for better game mechanics and the community wil be pleased, this should be a blueprint of what is to come, not the final edition.

    Ore leave them how they are and add new dungeons inspired by the community's feedback. people wil look back at these dungeons with a smile, and enjoy playing the new ones even more because of them. Eventualy if the game keeps growing these dungeons wil become a small part of the entire dungeon list :) so they wil be considered difficult (because of the mass adds) but it wont be a negative "difficult" because there will be other dungeons designed around other mechanics?...

    Just imagine if the current dungeons where 5% of all the dungeons, and all the other dungeons dident have the mass add spam difficulty. Would u stil consider these dungeons borring difficult? Ore would they be a challenge in there own right?

    No, no, the adds spam would still be boring.
  • knoteskadknoteskad Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Even if they are I could care less with how much of a joke content is in this game.

    I don't think I've ever been so dissapointed in an MMO's end game pve.

    Even GW2's was more fun (and ugh i hated that).

    Terrible drop rates, every dungeon is exactly the same, unrewarding and boring.
  • noosednoosed Member Posts: 247 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    chronomancer wrote: »
    I really hate mobs that does the vacuum sucking skill then explode. Most of the time you still get damaged even tho you are outside it's AOE radius and many of those can 1-2 shot you. So seriously reduce the AOE radius of the mob so people can actually run away from it.

    You're doing it wrong, anytime i have dodged away from these abilities I have taken precisely zero damage. To reiterate, you're doing it wrong.
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